Harley to be Built in India

[Star Cruiser]

I couldn't believe the CNN report but here it is.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/04/india.bikes/index.html

Happy that the Spyder will still be made in America (North America).

Riding is like Meditation....

[retread]

It's on Kneeslider too.

john

[AntelopeSpyder]

Seems like a win / win for Harley. Bikes are manufactured in USA and assembled in India.

[Bob Denman]

Aren't the Enfields built in India also? (have you looked at one of them??:shocked: build quality just ain't in their vocabulary!) If Harley is outsourcing to there I bid them goodbye and wish them well...:gaah:

[chillirider]

Now when they say my bike is a rice burner I can tell them they ride a curry burner. :clap:

[mxz600]

I couldn't believe the CNN report but here it is.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/04/india.bikes/index.html

What's not to believe. This is great for HD. It's not like they're moving their operations over there. The parts are made in the USA and assembled in India to be sold to people in that part of the world.


Happy that the Spyder will still be made in America (North America).

The Spyder is built in North America with various parts from China.

[Recon]

Can we call this a true merger between H-D and Indian????

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: :roflblack:

[Firefly]

What's not to believe. This is great for HD. It's not like they're moving their operations over there. The parts are made in the USA and assembled in India to be sold to people in that part of the world.



The Spyder is built in North America with various parts from China.

The Spyder also has parts from Vietnam....:gaah:

---------------------

The difficulty here is that this comes at a time when HD has threatened to close down their assembly plant in Wisconsin because they claim labor is too expensive. They employ 1,600 there.

How long will it be before they decide to use the cheap labor over there to ship parts back over here? They already have their lights and electronics made in Japan and China.....

HD makes more money from T-shirt sales alone than ALL other items (including bikes) they sell COMBINED---- and I guarantee those shirts are not made in the USA.

Sad sign of the times. Makes me sick.

[Gordy]

is this why there is 10% unemployment:yikes:

[DragonLorD]

does it realy mather what is built where at these times?
built by Asians in Asia or built by Asians in USA? - same difference

HDs never been best built and or most reliable anyway, even when 100% made in usa
HDs are legends, bikes with history, good looking bikes, most known bikes but........these are probably only positives they got

[Gordy]

but it is takeing work away from the usa:dontknow:

[mxz600]

HDs never been best built and or most reliable anyway, even when 100% made in usa

Is that just your opinion or do you have some facts to back that up.

I have not had even one minor issue with my Harley. Granted it only has 20,000 miles on it and virtually none in the last two years since I got the Spyder. But from what I know (and sometimes that isn't much) and the people I know that own Harley's, they are not a troublesome machine and are very well built.

[mxz600]

but it is takeing work away from the usa:dontknow:

No, it will make more work for the US.

[Firefly]

does it realy mather what is built where at these times?
built by Asians in Asia or built by Asians in USA? - same difference

HDs never been best built and or most reliable anyway, even when 100% made in usa
HDs are legends, bikes with history, good looking bikes, most known bikes but........these are probably only positives they got

Um--- your statement about being 'built by Asians in America' is offensive ----- once someone is an American citizen---they are no worse or better than you or I. we are all the same that live here--- we are ALL immigrants with various ethnic backgrounds.

[Bob Denman]

Boy, can this ever become a flamefest or what?? :shocked:
In an era when your Honda, Kawi, Suzi or Yammie only needs fuel to keep running for what seems like forever, there are still too many stories of Harleys needing rebuilds at 60000 miles or less... They've got styling, the name and legend, and... I have to admit that I can't see what else... and I lament that fact! I've ridden some nice ones, but nothing that jumped out and made me want to go buy one.
(Okay... I admit to throwing the punch... let me have it!)

[tweeder]

No, it will make more work for the US.


How so? I fail to see your logic in that. I live in northern bc Canada and have seen numerous pulp, paper and forestry operations being shipped over seas. My town personaly lost a paper mill and lost 550 direct jobs and a couple thousand indirect. That and about 10 years back our local ammonia producer was bought and shipped to Asia.

[DragonLorD]

Um--- your statement about being 'built by Asians in America' is offensive ----- once someone is an American citizen---they are no worse or better than you or I. we are all the same that live here--- we are ALL immigrants with various ethnic backgrounds.

didn't want to be offensive at all, my point was somewhere else, i just didn't like that a fact alone that HD will be built in India will affect quality in bad way, i found that one offensive. It is 21st century a world is a global place.

[ataDude]

I'll admit it... I don't get this obsession with Harley. You ride Can-Ams... I get that you're proud of 'em... I happen to ride a Triumph (Britain) and a Honda (Japan) right now.

But on every M/C forum I frequent, the HD obsession lives on. They have two wheels (sometimes three), an engine, tires, brakes, etc. If you don't want one, don't buy one.

The Spyder is assembled in Canada with parts from throughout the world. Is it Canadian? It depends on your own definition.

I just don't get it. At times, this obsession makes all of us look somewhat small.

.

[Derek Paisley]

Is that just your opinion or do you have some facts to back that up.

I have not had even one minor issue with my Harley. Granted it only has 20,000 miles on it and virtually none in the last two years since I got the Spyder. But from what I know (and sometimes that isn't much) and the people I know that own Harley's, they are not a troublesome machine and are very well built.




lol

You have a strong opinion there big guy, baseless.. But still strong.


Similar to your point re: No, it will make more work for the US.

LMFAO!

lol

[DragonLorD]

Is that just your opinion or do you have some facts to back that up.

I have not had even one minor issue with my Harley. Granted it only has 20,000 miles on it and virtually none in the last two years since I got the Spyder. But from what I know (and sometimes that isn't much) and the people I know that own Harley's, they are not a troublesome machine and are very well built.


it is just my own EARNED and EXPERIENCED based opinion which means yes - i do have a bucket of my own personal facts to back that up.
but if you are looking for bigger facts, maybe google some tests or something

fancy afternoon milkshake? - combine all ingredients , sit on your Harley and start engine - perfect milkshake whitin a seconds. got it? - no? - just follow recipe

[SSPSpyder]

Here's some food for thought.

Did a Google search -
Victory motorcycle repair modification upgrade
can-am spyder repair modification upgrade
Harley Davidson repair modification upgrade

the results-
Victory 21,900 hits
Spyder 48,400 hits
Harley 258,000 hits

kinda/sorta backs-up what my buddy (a Harley owner) keeps telling me
"when I break down, there's a Harley dealer on almost every corner"

My reply - "I don't worry about that, my Spyder and Victory don't break down"!:2thumbs:

[DragonLorD]

Boy, can this ever become a flamefest or what?? :shocked:
In an era when your Honda, Kawi, Suzi or Yammie only needs fuel to keep running for what seems like forever, there are still too many stories of Harleys needing rebuilds at 60000 miles or less... They've got styling, the name and legend, and... I have to admit that I can't see what else... and I lament that fact! I've ridden some nice ones, but nothing that jumped out and made me want to go buy one.
(Okay... I admit to throwing the punch... let me have it!)

:agree:
:roflblack: :roflblack: :roflblack:

finaly someone else, i thought they beat :cus: out of me :gaah:

[mxz600]

How so? I fail to see your logic in that.

Did you read the article? Maybe I read it wrong, but I took it as Harley is sending parts made in America to a plant to be built and sold in India. The bikes built in India will not be sold over here. If Harley was to sell bikes all over the world that are built in India, well shame on them and I for one will never buy another.

[Bob Denman]

Anything to help out a friend! :2thumbs:
...and truthfully I'd rather NOT have to say or think what I do about Harleys... I'd like to like 'em... but it just doesn't happen!:pray:

[Bob Denman]

Did you read the article? Maybe I read it wrong, but I took it as Harley is sending parts made in America to a plant to be built and sold in India. The bikes built in India will not be sold over here. If Harley was to sell bikes all over the world that are built in India, well shame on them and I for one will never buy another.
Still... if they could keep the assembly here it'd keep some jobs in this country...

[DragonLorD]

Anything to help out a friend! :2thumbs:
...and truthfully I'd rather NOT have to say or think what I do about Harleys... I'd like to like 'em... but it just doesn't happen!:pray:


same in this part of the world :clap:

[Firefly]

Here's some food for thought.

Did a Google search -
Victory motorcycle repair modification upgrade
can-am spyder repair modification upgrade
Harley Davidson repair modification upgrade

the results-
Victory 21,900 hits
Spyder 48,400 hits
Harley 258,000 hits

kinda/sorta backs-up what my buddy (a Harley owner) keeps telling me
"when I break down, there's a Harley dealer on almost every corner"

My reply - "I don't worry about that, my Spyder and Victory don't break down"!:2thumbs:

Considering HD has been around FAR longer and holds a MUCH larger market share-- your results should have shown even MORE numbers for HD's.

They got a bad quality rep back in the day--- and the AMF fiasco didn't help at all.

The V-Rod engines are well known to go 100,000 miles or more without any service done other than oil changes.

I'm just not a fan of their products.

[Firefly]

Did you read the article? Maybe I read it wrong, but I took it as Harley is sending parts made in America to a plant to be built and sold in India. The bikes built in India will not be sold over here. If Harley was to sell bikes all over the world that are built in India, well shame on them and I for one will never buy another.


You read it correct. They are making PARTS here --- shipping them to India for final assembly so they can sell completed bikes in India.

My concern is that 9 times out of 10 this leads to them deciding to build the parts there too-- and then shipping them all over the world and eventually putting the guys in Wisconsin out of their jobs. (SP fans--"They terk der jobs!").

How long will it take the wall street shareholders of HD to see the profit can skyrocket by using cheap labor overseas-- once they get a taste for it with the assembly-- they'll start moving more production there.

HD riders bleed Red, White and Blue more so than other brands --- and just the idea of a plant being built in India will NOT go over well-- regardless of what they're really doing at the plant.

[Firefly]

didn't want to be offensive at all, my point was somewhere else, i just didn't like that a fact alone that HD will be built in India will affect quality in bad way, i found that one offensive. It is 21st century a world is a global place.

Sorry if I misunderstood you--- but the way you worded it sounded like you were against Asians (Americans or otherwise) making parts......regardless of where they lived or if they were citizens.

[mxz600]

Still... if they could keep the assembly here it'd keep some jobs in this country...
:agree: But if people can't afford them unless they are built there, I guess a small piece of the pie is better than none at all.

I'm going to my room now to lick my wounds from the beating I just took from my fellow forum members.

And for the record I am not an ambassador for Harley. I am not a typical Harley owner, I own one Harley t-shirt and two caps (all gifts). I have no Harley tattoos and no stickers on my truck. I just happen to own one and think it's a fine machine.

[Bob Denman]

I sure didn't mean to be part of a beating here... If your Harley floats your boat, then that's great for you!:clap: ...and I will admit that they build some gorgeous-looking bikes! :doorag:

[DragonLorD]

Considering HD has been around FAR longer and holds a MUCH larger market share-- your results should have shown even MORE numbers for HD's.

They got a bad quality rep back in the day--- and the AMF fiasco didn't help at all.

The V-Rod engines are well known to go 100,000 miles or more without any service done other than oil changes.

I'm just not a fan of their products.


i would say that V-Rod is the best in my eyes but again it is not Harley, it is well ingeneered bike with H&D logo and price mark on it

[Star Cruiser]

Can we call this a true merger between H-D and Indian????

:roflblack: Awesome!!!! Wish I could have thought of that.

Sorry about starting a "Flametest" here. I just thought it was interesting that the "American Dream" was being outsourced. Of course 90% or more of the Harley periferrals (T-Shirts, shot glasses, and other trinkets) are made in the global economy, but never thought the assembly would be somewhere else. Toyota assembles in Canada and the USA and somehow we still consider them "Foreign".

[mxz600]

I sure didn't mean to be part of a beating here... If your Harley floats your boat, then that's great for you!:clap: ...and I will admit that they build some gorgeous-looking bikes! :doorag:

Thanks Bob, I was just joking about the beating. Things on forums can get out of hand rather quickly sometimes. But hey, if everybody liked the same thing we wouldn't have all these choices.

And my Harley hasn't exactly been floating my boat lately. Since getting the Spyder two years ago I've only put around 500 miles on it. It's just not as fun anymore.

[tweeder]

You read it correct. They are making PARTS here --- shipping them to India for final assembly so they can sell completed bikes in India.

My concern is that 9 times out of 10 this leads to them deciding to build the parts there too-- and then shipping them all over the world and eventually putting the guys in Wisconsin out of their jobs. (SP fans--"They terk der jobs!").

How long will it take the wall street shareholders of HD to see the profit can skyrocket by using cheap labor overseas-- once they get a taste for it with the assembly-- they'll start moving more production there.

HD riders bleed Red, White and Blue more so than other brands --- and just the idea of a plant being built in India will NOT go over well-- regardless of what they're really doing at the plant.


Me too, if not that then they will find it cheaper to build over there and ship the final product here. Why couldn't they ship the final from here to other parts of the world like they do cars?

[Firefly]

Me too, if not that then they will find it cheaper to build over there and ship the final product here. Why couldn't they ship the final from here to other parts of the world like they do cars?


If you read the full article, they mention that India has a high import tariff on completely assembled vehicles. Here in my town we had the same kind of thing happen with Clark Equipment... but WE had the import tariffs on fully assembled forklifts --- so they would just ship them in from Japan without the forks installed and thus got around the tariff.

[Firefly]

i would say that V-Rod is the best in my eyes but again it is not Harley, it is well ingeneered bike with H&D logo and price mark on it

Says who?

The engine was co-engineered with Porsche and is built here in the USA. To the best of my knowledge the rest of the bike was designed by HD.

[Neez]

Well, I'm aware that we live in an age of globalization, and that Canada, where I live, is more of a trading nation than a manufacturing one. Still, nationalistic sentiment can sometimes cause us to be a be a bit irrational, and I'm no more immune to it than the next guy. Case in point: recently, a Canadian Harley rider asked me if "that thing" I was riding was a "riceburner". "Nope," I told him, "Canadian as poutine and saskatoon pie. How 'bout yours?" I could tell by the look on his face that I had scored some one-upmanship points, so I didn't tell him that some Spyder parts come from Austria, Germany and China. Foolishness, I know, but I enjoyed the moment!

[wyliec]

does it realy mather what is built where at these times?
built by Asians in Asia or built by Asians in USA? - same difference



What is this supposed to mean?

Firefly,

I didn't see your post #15 before I sent mine. I found his remarks pretty upsetting.

[Lifeisadaydream]

Now when they say my bike is a rice burner I can tell them they ride a curry burner. :clap:
Being Canadian built, wouldn't that make Can-Am a bacon burner? ..... Mmmmm bacon.

[Barbary]

Here's some food for thought.

Did a Google search -
Victory motorcycle repair modification upgrade
can-am spyder repair modification upgrade
Harley Davidson repair modification upgrade

the results-
Victory 21,900 hits
Spyder 48,400 hits
Harley 258,000 hits

kinda/sorta backs-up what my buddy (a Harley owner) keeps telling me
"when I break down, there's a Harley dealer on almost every corner"

My reply - "I don't worry about that, my Spyder and Victory don't break down"!:2thumbs:



:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflb lack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

[Gordy]

Being Canadian built, wouldn't that make Can-Am a bacon burner? ..... Mmmmm bacon.
eh

[COOLMACHINE]

I had not heard this until today on this post. On a similiar note, I was talking to a co-worker last month "who is a big Harley man and seems to be on top of things in HD Land. (Maybe I'm wrong) Anyway, he mentioned to me he heard that the Michigan plant was going to close and HD was going to purchase the old Chrysler Plant in Fenton, Missouri. Anyone working at the Michigan plant who would like a job at the new plant in Missouri would have to apply for a job. Anyone here heard anything about this?

[Gordy]

all kidding aside I have been riding for a lot of years and have never seen or ridden a motorcycle I didnt like from a 98 james to a spyder, harleys included

[Zerocool]

--- we are ALL immigrants with various ethnic backgrounds.

Firefly, I'm not picking a fight - we met last year at Lamont's and I'm a fan of yours... but that statement is crap and part of what's tearing this country apart.

Our ANCESTORS were immigrants, I am not. I'm a natural born citizen and proud to call myself an AMERICAN. I teach my children the same thing, just like my parents did with me. We're not Irish-American or Slovak-American, just American. Those who gain US citizenship and want to be called XYZ-American should GTFO of America and head back to XYZ - you can't serve two masters.

Sorry, you hit a nerve ;)

[COOLMACHINE]

eh
Not sure what they were referring to except maybe "The McKenzie Brothers in the 80's from Second City TV," The Great White North with their "Back Bacon" remarks. Just a guess. Coo LOO Coo Coo coo Coo COO COO!

[ameobe]

Good read but maybe "Off topic"?:yikes::doorag:

[Firefly]

Not sure what they were referring to except maybe "The McKenzie Brothers in the 80's from Second City TV," The Great White North with their "Back Bacon" remarks. Just a guess. Coo LOO Coo Coo coo Coo COO COO!


LOL-- Take off eh?

[Firefly]

Firefly, I'm not picking a fight - we met last year at Lamont's and I'm a fan of yours... but that statement is crap and part of what's tearing this country apart.

Our ANCESTORS were immigrants, I am not. I'm a natural born citizen and proud to call myself an AMERICAN. I teach my children the same thing, just like my parents did with me. We're not Irish-American or Slovak-American, just American. Those who gain US citizenship and want to be called XYZ-American should GTFO of America and head back to XYZ - you can't serve two masters.

Sorry, you hit a nerve ;)


Didn't mean to get this far off-topic--- I just found his negative reference to 'Asians building them either over there or over here' offensive. If they're here and legal citizens - shouldn't matter if they are Asian or not - they are Americans.

What I meant was that we all came from immigrants with the exception of Native Americans, and just because we may have been here for 3 or 4 generations compared to someone that just became a legal citizen doesn't make us any 'more' American than they are. We are a melting pot from around the world - unlike any other country - which is what makes us so great! :2thumbs:

People can call themselves whatever they want - one of the great freedoms we have over here. If someone prefers to be an Irish-American because they're proud of their Irish heritage - I could care less -- really none of my business.

I'm of Irish and Scottish backgrounds--- I suppose I could call myself a Celtic-American----:roflblack: .

[burg650]

For it to be called truly made in America it had to be made from 100% all American and I mean every nut and bolt has to be made right here in America. Harley Davidson are not 100% made in America, if one washer is not made here then I do not call it truly made in America and HD is not an all American made motorcycle!!

[Star Cruiser]

kind of amusing that so many people that don't own a Harley would have such a strong opinion of how Harley should conduct their operations.....:roflblack:

As a lifelong Harley rider, I have no problem with them expanding their operations in order to compete in one of the world's largest markets. It can only help to stabilize the rest of the company in uncertain times. I doubt if the HD employees in Wisconsin care where their engines are going, as long as they're still building engines. A US company engaging in exporting, should be a good news story.

It certainly is a good news story!

[Firefly]

For it to be called truly made in America it had to be made from 100% all American and I mean every nut and bolt has to be made right here in America. Harley Davidson are not 100% made in America, if one washer is not made here then I do not call it truly made in America and HD is not an all American made motorcycle!!

Unfortunately I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything with all-American parts in it....:(
--------------------

Certainly this initially could be good for HD workers having a new market to sell to --- but the next step they take after that will be assembly over there and shipping back here--- and then 100% made there and shipped here. Seen it a thousand times - it's the 'new' American way.

I find it funny how anyone can tell what everyone else owns and doesn't own......:roflblack:

[NancysToy]

kind of amusing that so many people that don't own a Harley would have such a strong opinion of how Harley should conduct their operations.....:roflblack:

As a lifelong Harley rider, I have no problem with them expanding their operations in order to compete in one of the world's largest markets. It can only help to stabilize the rest of the company in uncertain times. I doubt if the HD employees in Wisconsin care where their engines are going, as long as they're still building engines. A US company engaging in exporting, should be a good news story.
:agree:

[draboo]

kind of amusing that so many people that don't own a Harley would have such a strong opinion of how Harley should conduct their operations.....:roflblack:

.

If the quality of the 3 mid '70 Sportsters I owned has any merit , I can honestly say that this move can only improve matters for HD.:joke:

Overseas marketing is a good thing. The trade deficit is horrendous. I applaud HD for taking such (seemily,to some) drastic measures to keep thier company in the black. Marketing their motorcycles in a country with the worlds highest population increase rate can only help their sales.

I m sure it will be a burr in the saddle of a few diehards, but as previously mentioned, unless you purchase an item that consists of just one part, like a bolt, you will be hard pressed to find anything these days that consists of "Made in the USA" parts only. Besides, the motorcycles assembled there will be sold there. It's not like HD is totally outsoursing their operations and then selling the product in the states to save money on labor. HD knows which side their bread is buttered on.:lecturef_smilie:


If you don't own an HD it just doesn't matter,but it's fun to talk about. If you do own one, the same. Now..if you own stock in HD, you should be doing a happy dance!:ohyea:

Enough out of me. Flame on!

Brad

Here is an interesting tidbit:
"India will be the second country in which Harley-Davidson has CKD assembly operations outside the U.S., after Brazil where the Company began assembly operations in 1999." linky (http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/HD_News/Company/newsarticle.jsp?locale=en_US&articleLink=News/0893_press_release.hdnews&newsYear=2010&history=news)

[MouthPiece]

If you read the full article, they mention that India has a high import tariff on completely assembled vehicles. Here in my town we had the same kind of thing happen with Clark Equipment... but WE had the import tariffs on fully assembled forklifts --- so they would just ship them in from Japan without the forks installed and thus got around the tariff.

WOW!!!!! Trying to get around govt. taxes. What a concept.!!!!

[DragonLorD]

If you read the full article, they mention that India has a high import tariff on completely assembled vehicles. Here in my town we had the same kind of thing happen with Clark Equipment... but WE had the import tariffs on fully assembled forklifts --- so they would just ship them in from Japan without the forks installed and thus got around the tariff.

WOW!!!!! Trying to get around govt. taxes. What a concept.!!!!


i think it's a great concept , definitely allways No.1 in my book :2thumbs:of all concepts

[Firefly]

Even funnier when some claim to know what Harley's corporate strategy is, and then share their whimsical notions in public....:roflblack::roflblack::thumbup:


The board doesn't care about American-Made loyalty -- they care about profits - and they're in dire straights.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts what I stated will happen within 20 years. nojoke

[Firefly]

http://www.investorplace.com/13444/harley-plant-may-hit-road/

http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/harley-davidson-threatens-wisconsin-plant-closures

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/01/23/Harley-Davidson-to-cut-jobs/UPI-78261232769183/


Denial -- not just a river in Egypt-----:roflblack:

[Roadkill]

... I admit to throwing the punch... let me have it!

+My 1994 H-D Sportster XL883 was the most reliable bike I've owned past 100,000 miles to-date and remained a workhorse, with trailer and sidecar duty throughout its life.

http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_8320.JPG
http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_5542.JPG
http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_5543.JPG
http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_5547.JPG
http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_5685.JPG
http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_6561.JPG
http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_5553.jpg

After snapping its crank shy of 103,000 miles, it then got rebored by its new owner and set 4 speed records.

http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_3442.JPG

That's a KO for a bout that you shouldn't have started.

The shame here is that manufacturing jobs are moving elsewhere, which is forcing our stance as a nation to rethink its current strategy. This must involve the spending trends of the consumers.

We keep evolving toward a service society thats forgotten to remain able as a society, to also serve itself.

Ride on.
Roadkill
http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_10319.JPG

[Smylinacha]

Firefly, I'm not picking a fight - we met last year at Lamont's and I'm a fan of yours... but that statement is crap and part of what's tearing this country apart.

Our ANCESTORS were immigrants, I am not. I'm a natural born citizen and proud to call myself an AMERICAN. I teach my children the same thing, just like my parents did with me. We're not Irish-American or Slovak-American, just American. Those who gain US citizenship and want to be called XYZ-American should GTFO of America and head back to XYZ - you can't serve two masters.

Sorry, you hit a nerve ;)

:2thumbs::agree:

[Smylinacha]

Companies are trying to compete globally, HD should be able to do that like anyone else. You can't turn back time and buy USA only - it's just not that world anymore. There are reasons for that but I can't discuss my opinions of why in here because it is political.

Not sure if there is a single well known large corporation that manufactures 100% in the USA with zero foreign parts. Not anymore. They'd all go broke doing it which goes back to my first paragraph in which I'd get scolded for giving my reasonings why.

But there is no way HD is gonna close up all operations in America and move everything to another country. If they did that, they'd lose the American market. But they can sure as heck build a factory in India and sell to the customers over there.


The board doesn't care about American-Made loyalty -- they care about profits - and they're in dire straights.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts what I stated will happen within 20 years. nojoke

[Raptor]

Considering HD has been around FAR longer and holds a MUCH larger market share-- your results should have shown even MORE numbers for HD's.

They got a bad quality rep back in the day--- and the AMF fiasco didn't help at all.

The V-Rod engines are well known to go 100,000 miles or more without any service done other than oil changes.

I'm just not a fan of their products.

I agree with the bad rap angle. And though I don't care for everything they make there are a coupe of HDs I would LOVE to have in my garage, the V-Rod being one of them! I once had access to a classic HD like 20 some-odd years ago which was just kick-@ss! It was black with a cafe racer type style and fairing. Please forgive me, I am NOT a Harley expert by any means so I can't tell you what model it was! But this was a fantastic ride. So I would park that one in the garage as well.

Without getting political I also agree about the group that is fiercly loyal to the brand - I think MANY of them would really be turned off if they knew they were NOT buying the American machine. It would not be good for Harley at all...

[Raptor]

kind of amusing that so many people that don't own a Harley would have such a strong opinion of how Harley should conduct their operations.....:roflblack:

As a lifelong Harley rider, I have no problem with them expanding their operations in order to compete in one of the world's largest markets. It can only help to stabilize the rest of the company in uncertain times. I doubt if the HD employees in Wisconsin care where their engines are going, as long as they're still building engines. A US company engaging in exporting, should be a good news story.

Totally dude! Now built in the USA and exported to the world totally works for me! It sounds like this story is confined to the Indian market - for now at least. I just want to see those Wisconsin workers still workin!

[Smylinacha]

Totally dude! Now built in the USA and exported to the world totally works for me! It sounds like this story is confined to the Indian market - for now at least. I just want to see those Wisconsin workers still workin!

I want to see that too and they will be. As long as the company does well, targets the markets where they can join in on the competition, they'll be fine. It's all about competition, making money and brand awareness. Exporting is good news.

[Raptor]

The shame here is that manufacturing jobs are moving elsewhere, which is forcing our stance as a nation to rethink its current strategy. This must involve the spending trends of the consumers.

We keep evolving toward a service society thats forgotten to remain able as a society, to also serve itself.

Interesting point. If we do not start making things here again we will lose the ability to innovate and will eventually lose our status in the world as a whole. The thought of this country becoming a dependant nation sickens me...

[MouthPiece]

But what will the dollar be worth and how much will a donut cost in 20 years? :dontknow:

Chris PE# 0004

[mdr]

:2thumbs::agree:

I don't think differences, or people embracing their race/ethnicity is what is pulling this country apart. Unfortunately, the history of our country (despite all the truly great things we have done) illustrates that we have not treated all Americans equally. Americans of Indian descent and Japanese descent had all legal rights and citizenship stripped by a racist supreme court, Jewish Americans were denied access to medical schools and ivy league universities, African-Americans were segregated, Japanese Americans were interned during WWII, Mexican Americans get pulled over in AZ and asked for proof of citizenship, etc. These things didn't happen hundreds of years ago, and there is overwhelming research that clearly illustrates the impact of these 'past sins' on people and communities today. Telling people to get over the past is like telling my family who lives in New York to get over 9/11. It seems hypocritical on one hand to tell people that we are all Americans (or just get out), and then on the other hand clearly treat people differently--personally and legally--based on their heritage. People who have historically been told that they are not 'real Americans' certainly have the right to claim their status as hyphenated Americans.

[Star Cruiser]

Totally dude! Now built in the USA and exported to the world totally works for me! It sounds like this story is confined to the Indian market - for now at least. I just want to see those Wisconsin workers still workin!

That is more accurate, AND a good thing. Built in the USA, is built in America, but Built in America is not necessisarily built in the US of A. There are Three Americas North, Central & South. I suppose if parts were from Mexico Brazil and Canada it would still be American.

Sorry just hit a nerve here as well. Canada of America, Mexico of America Brazil of America and United States of America are all just a part of America.

BUT we digress, the thread started as an article about Harley building bikes in India.....(of Asia)

[Firefly]

I agree with the bad rap angle. And though I don't care for everything they make there are a coupe of HDs I would LOVE to have in my garage, the V-Rod being one of them! I once had access to a classic HD like 20 some-odd years ago which was just kick-@ss! It was black with a cafe racer type style and fairing. Please forgive me, I am NOT a Harley expert by any means so I can't tell you what model it was! But this was a fantastic ride. So I would park that one in the garage as well.

Without getting political I also agree about the group that is fiercly loyal to the brand - I think MANY of them would really be turned off if they knew they were NOT buying the American machine. It would not be good for Harley at all...

Yeah-- I really like the Orange/Black color combo of V-rod. Pretty much the only bike from HD I could see myself owning. Saw one this summer decked out with a turbo.....:thumbup:

[Star Cruiser]

Yeah-- I really like the Orange/Black color combo of V-rod. Pretty much the only bike from HD I could see myself owning. Saw one this summer decked out with a turbo.....:thumbup:

I like the Copper / Black combo myself. BUT I really like the Spyder :) - In ANY and ALL colours !

[Raptor]

I like the Copper / Black combo myself. BUT I really like the Spyder :) - In ANY and ALL colours !

Yeah me too! Nobody wants me to get back on two wheels so the Spyder is the answer to my prayers. And I really really like my Spyders. To this point they have been wonderful - but I admit that I would like to get on 2 wheels again some day.

I have learned just recently how life can be cut short so some day a 2 wheeler WILL once again grace my garage. Just not now. Right now the Spyder is doin just fine!

[draboo]

I agree with the bad rap angle. And though I don't care for everything they make there are a coupe of HDs I would LOVE to have in my garage, the V-Rod being one of them! I once had access to a classic HD like 20 some-odd years ago which was just kick-@ss! It was black with a cafe racer type style and fairing. Please forgive me, I am NOT a Harley expert by any means so I can't tell you what model it was! But this was a fantastic ride. So I would park that one in the garage as well.

Without getting political I also agree about the group that is fiercly loyal to the brand - I think MANY of them would really be turned off if they knew they were NOT buying the American machine. It would not be good for Harley at all...

1978 XLCR is the motorcycle you are thinking of, I think.

I was a volunteer firefighter around 20 years ago. We were called to a fire where a barn was burning. The owner had one of these parked in the remains of the barn. His father had given it to him.

http://www.planete-biker.com/images/histoire/02xlcr.jpg

HD was bought out by AMF in 1970 and owned it until sometime around 1981 when it was bought back by HD. It was a bad time for HD, which was dealing with the Japanese invasion, practically no quality control at the factory, and the oil embargo didn't help matters either. I was rather surprised they survived. We used to call these made by AMF "bowling machines" :D Those bikes were rather horrific, BUT, thanks to AMF, HD's are still here today.

[DragonLorD]

But what will the dollar be worth and how much will a donut cost in 20 years? :dontknow:

Chris PE# 0004



will there still be a $ ? - maybe a global kind of currency? :dontknow:

[MouthPiece]

Perhaps the reminibi or yuan? :dontknow:

Chris PE# 0004

[Smylinacha]

I don't think differences, or people embracing their race/ethnicity is what is pulling this country apart. Unfortunately, the history of our country (despite all the truly great things we have done) illustrates that we have not treated all Americans equally. Americans of Indian descent and Japanese descent had all legal rights and citizenship stripped by a racist supreme court, Jewish Americans were denied access to medical schools and ivy league universities, African-Americans were segregated, Japanese Americans were interned during WWII, Mexican Americans get pulled over in AZ and asked for proof of citizenship, etc. These things didn't happen hundreds of years ago, and there is overwhelming research that clearly illustrates the impact of these 'past sins' on people and communities today. Telling people to get over the past is like telling my family who lives in New York to get over 9/11. It seems hypocritical on one hand to tell people that we are all Americans (or just get out), and then on the other hand clearly treat people differently--personally and legally--based on their heritage. People who have historically been told that they are not 'real Americans' certainly have the right to claim their status as hyphenated Americans.

There is a reason why we are having class warfare in this country, the gov't likes to keep people divided so people rely more on the gov't.

[Smylinacha]

Interesting point. If we do not start making things here again we will lose the ability to innovate and will eventually lose our status in the world as a whole. The thought of this country becoming a dependant nation sickens me...

Yes it sickens me too. Where I live, Bridgeport, CT used to be one the mfg hubs of the country. All gone now. Nothing but vacant, crumbling factory buildings and the city is riddled with crime. But what HD is doing is good news, they aren't canning any jobs, they are adding more, in another country to have market presence. I don't think HD will ever outsource the brand to another country. People will still be building them here. Sad when companies pick up and move out of our country and I don't like it one bit but there are reasons why they do and it's unfortunate. The price of labor in some companies have forced them to mfg elsewhere.

[Bob Denman]

Well somebody is still building something here in te U.S.A... :clap::roflblack::ohyea::yes:

[spydee owner]

This has been the problem with the U.S. economy for years. If one or two small companies design a product in the U.S. and have it all assembled in countries with cheap labour for export back to the U.S., not such a big deal. When Hundreds of U.S. companies do this to keep their shareholders happy with bigger profits then it is a disaster. It comes right down to corporate greed. When a country loses its manufacturing base its in big trouble. I think things have moved way to far now though to repair the damage. One does not have to look at India though ... just to Mexico.
When a huge symbol of U.S. pride and history like HD goes down this road, well, its just too bad.
In my opinion, what HD needs to do is move into the sport bike market. Continue to build the Vtwin but make a decent 4 cylinder sportbike. Build their own engine from scratch. There is a whole North American market that they choose to ignore because they continue to be in the Vtwin cruiser market. In my opinion also, they have way too many models of bikes that tend to duplicate each other.

[Smylinacha]

This has been the problem with the U.S. economy for years. If one or two small companies design a product in the U.S. and have it all assembled in countries with cheap labour for export back to the U.S., not such a big deal. When Hundreds of U.S. companies do this to keep their shareholders happy with bigger profits then it is a disaster. It comes right down to corporate greed. When a country loses its manufacturing base its in big trouble. I think things have moved way to far now though to repair the damage. One does not have to look at India though ... just to Mexico.
When a huge symbol of U.S. pride and history like HD goes down this road, well, its just too bad.
In my opinion, what HD needs to do is move into the sport bike market. Continue to build the Vtwin but make a decent 4 cylinder sportbike. Build their own engine from scratch. There is a whole North American market that they choose to ignore because they continue to be in the Vtwin cruiser market. In my opinion also, they have way too many models of bikes that tend to duplicate each other.

They also need to think outside the box and quit trying to sell the Sportster to women! They need to make a touring model, lighter in weight, fairing, everything the roadglide has for women who aren't as big as a man that rides them. Sportbike would be nice also but you can buy a jap model for much less so I don't think they'd do it, unless they made the price competitive with the jap bikes. They made a nice trike but there is no way I'd pay that amount of money for it. So those drawings with their version of the "reverse trike" that are out on the net..... wonder how much those will cost if it ever comes to fruition. I bet it will be a $40K reverse trike. I don't think they will export the entire business to other countries though. If they do, it will be a huge mistake. Fine to build them for other people in other countries, but keep the home base here for Americans.

[Firefly]

This has been the problem with the U.S. economy for years. If one or two small companies design a product in the U.S. and have it all assembled in countries with cheap labour for export back to the U.S., not such a big deal. When Hundreds of U.S. companies do this to keep their shareholders happy with bigger profits then it is a disaster. It comes right down to corporate greed. When a country loses its manufacturing base its in big trouble. I think things have moved way to far now though to repair the damage. One does not have to look at India though ... just to Mexico.
When a huge symbol of U.S. pride and history like HD goes down this road, well, its just too bad.
In my opinion, what HD needs to do is move into the sport bike market. Continue to build the Vtwin but make a decent 4 cylinder sportbike. Build their own engine from scratch. There is a whole North American market that they choose to ignore because they continue to be in the Vtwin cruiser market. In my opinion also, they have way too many models of bikes that tend to duplicate each other.


Agree on the sport-bike idea--- but they had a perfect line they could have really pushed--- Buell--- but they decided to dump the line.

Why they haven't moved the superior V-rod engine technology into other bike models is beyond me.

HD makes their profit from items made in China--- T-shirts and HD trinkets --- guess it won't matter once the bikes are made elsewhere too.

Honda has recently moved production lines back to Japan--- of course they are a Japanese (as opposed to 'jap') company.

[Firefly]

I don't think differences, or people embracing their race/ethnicity is what is pulling this country apart. Unfortunately, the history of our country (despite all the truly great things we have done) illustrates that we have not treated all Americans equally. Americans of Indian descent and Japanese descent had all legal rights and citizenship stripped by a racist supreme court, Jewish Americans were denied access to medical schools and ivy league universities, African-Americans were segregated, Japanese Americans were interned during WWII, Mexican Americans get pulled over in AZ and asked for proof of citizenship, etc. These things didn't happen hundreds of years ago, and there is overwhelming research that clearly illustrates the impact of these 'past sins' on people and communities today. Telling people to get over the past is like telling my family who lives in New York to get over 9/11. It seems hypocritical on one hand to tell people that we are all Americans (or just get out), and then on the other hand clearly treat people differently--personally and legally--based on their heritage. People who have historically been told that they are not 'real Americans' certainly have the right to claim their status as hyphenated Americans.


:agree:

The only 'real' Americans that would have a right to tell others to 'get out' would be NATIVE Americans.

One thing it seems that is still being manufactured in abundance in the US is ignorance.;)

[Magic Man]

If you read the full article, they mention that India has a high import tariff on completely assembled vehicles. Here in my town we had the same kind of thing happen with Clark Equipment... but WE had the import tariffs on fully assembled forklifts --- so they would just ship them in from Japan without the forks installed and thus got around the tariff.

WOW!!!!! Trying to get around govt. taxes. What a concept.!!!!

100% the reason to avoid the tarriff!

These tarriffs do nothing for the customer over there and nothing for the US, except raise the price of the bikes and go right in India's Govt. pocketbook.

This shipping as parts can and will allow these bike to be more profitable for Harley and even to allow a lower street price for them there as well.

Ask some of our fellow members what a Spyder costs "down under" because of tarrifs and shipping. Lamont told me a friend of his told him crazy prices for an RT there.

If this will help HD sell more bikes there, and as a US company be able to stay in business than it''s not a bad thing. The final assembly is only a small part of the bikes total cost and all the parts and people who make them will still be coming from US workers.

If many of these countries did not hammer US products so hard with tarriffs I know more places could afford totally made in the US products.

But when Sportsters start costing 20K and more because of tarriffs, it really cuts down on sales big time.

Without avoiding these tarriffs it could mean all these engines, fenders, gas tanks, frames and other made in the US parts won't be getting used because the bikes are too hight priced and don't sell there.

That and this helps to avoid most chances of shipping damages, as shipping parts is easier from a damage stand point than whole bikes.

Also, you can fit many more bikes broken down as parts in a ship than whole bikes will because of crates all the lost air space around a bike when it is in a such crate. This too will make it much more cost effective from a shipping stand point.

If we can keep the US workers busy making the parts because of increased sales, or keep HD from having layoffs due to low profitability than I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

[sinkhole]

Yesterday I opened the box containing foglights for my RT. Looking at the bill of lading I realized that the only parts in the box made in the USA were two small clips used to secure the wires, and only a couple of bolts and nuts were even made in Canada. Everything else (the bulk) was manufactured overseas.

Let's face it, the main reasons that companies move manufacturing operations "overseas" are to increase profits, and lower costs. This is great for greedy consumers that want more and more, for less and less, but quickly this catches up with you. We manufacture far less that we did 50 years ago, and have become a "service" society... and we can't even do that very well. We've become so dependent on the rest of the world for our everyday goods, that in a real emergency we'd be hard pressed to muster the manufacturing abilities that we had during WWII. American companies and citizens have been putting the rest of the world to work, and then we wonder why so many Americans are unemployed. Now I don't want expensive goods any more than the rest of you do, but the average American needs to soon realize that there "aint no free ride".

[Smylinacha]

Many reasons why mfg in the USA has tanked. Some are:

-Taxes on corporations (depending where you live - for example... CT is one of the most unfriendly business states in the Nation)

-Energy costs to make the product - For example, CT is 2nd highest in the nation for energy costs

-Through the years as people have demanded higher salaries, it's increased the price of everything

- organized labor

Where I work I get calls from all over the country, offering us incentives to move to another state. Some of these incentives are amazing. Makes me want to leave CT in a heartbeat but I'm just a lowly office worker and only field the phone calls.

So I think alot of it depends on where the companies are located, what tax incentives they get from the local gov't there, if they have to shell out alot of $$$ for organized labor contracts, inflation, globalization, a whole boatload of factors. Main problem, America cannot sustain itself anymore.

[Roadkill]

Well somebody is still building something here in te U.S.A...

+Wouldn't stay down, huh?

Well, then, Bob, knockdown number 2 is my 2656th Victory off the line, which still runs fine with over 200,000 miles.

Made in U.S.A. with more American content than H-D.

My dad used to box. Stay down, will ya'?

Ride on.
Roadkill
http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_10319.JPG

[Magic Man]

that there "aint no free ride".

:agree::agree::agree:

Only problem is when a company tries to us US only labor and it's product is 2, 3 or even 5 times as much as an import item, unfortunatly many times that company soon goes out of business.

The stories I could tell you about consumers that have no loyalty and "jump ship" for even a buck or two.

As a people we have got to decide if we want to keep the US strong or keep those extra few bucks in our pockets?

Because as it stands now, there is just no way with US labor as high as it is, 100% US products will ever be able to keep up with overseas companies as long as the US consumer values low price over US made.

MM

[boborgera]

:agree::agree::agree:

Only problem is when a company tries to us US only labor and it's product is 2, 3 or even 5 times as much as an import item, unfortunatly many times that company soon goes out of business.

The stories I could tell you about consumers that have no loyalty and "jump ship" for even a buck or two.

As a people we have got to decide if we want to keep the US strong or keep those extra few bucks in our pockets?

Because as it stands now, there is just no way with US labor as high as it is, 100% US products will ever be able to keep up with overseas companies as long as the US consumer values low price over US made.

MM

:agree:Yery similar to the guy who complains that all the Mom and Pop
hardware stores are going out of business, then when that same guy needs more than one 50 cent nut/bolt go's,
to the big box store to save a buck.nojoke

[wyliec]

I value good product. That's why I buy from you, MM. :thumbup:

[spydee owner]

You can talk about high labour costs, but the bottom line is that good paying jobs are the ones that keep the money flowing. People in low paying jobs are not the ones out buying new appliances, furniture, non essential items like motorcycles and snowmobiles. The ratio between the CEO and the factory worker is way out of wack also. In the 50s and 60s this ratio was maybe 4:1. What is it now maybe a 1000:1? The U.S does have some good business success stories though. Look at Arctic Cat and Poaris industries. They both went through hard times and had their brush with Bankruptcy years ago. The thing is that they learned their lesson. Some other companies though still look for the governments to bail them out when they screw up.

[Smylinacha]

You can talk about high labour costs, but the bottom line is that good paying jobs are the ones that keep the money flowing. People in low paying jobs are not the ones out buying new appliances, furniture, non essential items like motorcycles and snowmobiles. The ratio between the CEO and the factory worker is way out of wack. In the 50s and 60s this ratio was maybe 4:1. What is it now maybe a 1000:1? The U.S does have some good business success stories though. Look at Arctic Cat and Poaris industries. They both went through hard times and had their brush with Bankruptcy years ago. The thing is that they learned their lesson. Some other companies though still look for the governments to bail them out when they screw up.


The ratio between the CEO and factory worker - well there is a huge difference. The ratio between the factory worker and the office worker - very big difference - factory worker makes DOUBLE what a mgr or supervisor on salary makes. All you gotta do is work some O.T. on the weekends and there you have it - double time. You can actually take time off during the week and if you work that one Sunday, you made up for the time off you took and THEN some. Guanteed raises are in most contracts - 3.5 to 4% EACH YEAR, that doesn't even count the COLA you get every year. In this economy salary workers aren't even seeing that. You don't even have to show any merit to get that raise if you are organized. Nada, zippo, zip. It's built right into the "contract". Now take a company with a huge factory that is ALL organized labor - see how that cost eats into it? Just one small example.

EDIT TO ADD: I am a highly skilled salary worker in my field, my reviews show this but I make a pitance compared to if my position was organized labor.

[Firefly]

Harley "dumped" Buell because it was a perennial money loser for them. It was/is a great bike, the typical HD demographics didn't support it, however. Perhaps it would have done better independently or paired with another Euro type brand.

The part of the V-Rod engine (called the Revolution, BTW) that is beyond you, is that while it makes great horsepower, it doesn't have much in the way of low end torque. A great engine for the lighter weight cruiser that it's currently in. A poor choice for the heavyweight tourers that anchor the line. The big bore and long stroke of the stock air cooled V-Twin produces a ton of torque, not many folks on 96" or 103" Twin Cams look for more power beyond intake and exhaust upgrades. The current Revolution engine in a 1000 pound bagger would produce far more frowns than smiles.......Certainly not a 'superior engine'..........

Harley makes their profits in a lot of places. New bike sales, parts, service, accessories, clothing, merchandise, and finance/insurance.

Please show us where you obtained your financial information that indicates HD's profits are fueled by Chinese trinkets and t-shirts.:dontknow: I just looked through my rather substantial collection, couldn't find a Chinese tag anywhere...........:popcorn:

I clearly stated "superior V-rod engine technology".... not just dropping the engine from a V-rod into another bike. Water cooled engine technology is superior to air-cooled in most peoples eyes. Going to a water-cooled technology just makes sense. More HP out of a smaller, lighter power plant. Buell recognized this when they decided on a Rotax for their 1125R.

HD didn't try to market Buell well at all. Very sad to just kill that line off.

I've done work with HD stores for 20+ years and have access to all their marketing materials through HD HQ...not to mention having to contract photography of HD items for reproduction, and I can tell you that most of the items (shirts, collectibles, etc.) are NOT made in the US. Their big profit maker is clothing items -- check the tags-- Mexico, Taiwan, India, China, etc.....

[Firefly]

:agree:Yery similar to the guy who complains that all the Mom and Pop
hardware stores are going out of business, then when that same guy needs more than one 50 cent nut/bolt go's,
to the big box store to save a buck.nojoke
:agree:

Which is why I try to buy everything I can from our local hardware--- they can't just make it on the 4 screws you buy--- they need bigger sales too.:thumbup:

[Raptor]

1978 XLCR is the motorcycle you are thinking of, I think.

I was a volunteer firefighter around 20 years ago. We were called to a fire where a barn was burning. The owner had one of these parked in the remains of the barn. His father had given it to him.

http://www.planete-biker.com/images/histoire/02xlcr.jpg

HD was bought out by AMF in 1970 and owned it until sometime around 1981 when it was bought back by HD. It was a bad time for HD, which was dealing with the Japanese invasion, practically no quality control at the factory, and the oil embargo didn't help matters either. I was rather surprised they survived. We used to call these made by AMF "bowling machines" :D Those bikes were rather horrific, BUT, thanks to AMF, HD's are still here today.

You know this looks reeeeally close but I don't remember the wheels looking like that. It had a real classic look to it. This could have been it though simply with different wheels. My Brother-in-law at the time who owned the bike said it was kind of rare and to be very careful with it, which of course I was. He also had a couple of classic Indians; the ones with the suicide shifters! Those I did not ride. That HD was a great ride, I'll tell you that. Of course I was young and didn't know any better! All I knew was that I was havin a whole lot of fun! :ohyea:

[Raptor]

:agree:

Which is why I try to buy everything I can from our local hardware--- they can't just make it on the 4 screws you buy--- they need bigger sales too.:thumbup:

I'm with you there. I try my best to support the local economy any time I can. I only deal with the big corporations etc. if I have no other choice. I wanna say more but like Ms. Smylinacha I will respect the no politics rule and stop there! :spyder:

[Raptor]

They also need to think outside the box and quit trying to sell the Sportster to women! They need to make a touring model, lighter in weight, fairing, everything the roadglide has for women who aren't as big as a man that rides them. Sportbike would be nice also but you can buy a jap model for much less so I don't think they'd do it, unless they made the price competitive with the jap bikes. They made a nice trike but there is no way I'd pay that amount of money for it. So those drawings with their version of the "reverse trike" that are out on the net..... wonder how much those will cost if it ever comes to fruition. I bet it will be a $40K reverse trike. I don't think they will export the entire business to other countries though. If they do, it will be a huge mistake. Fine to build them for other people in other countries, but keep the home base here for Americans.

See, the thing is they don't need to nail us for 40K for the reverse trike. If they have to charge that much because of labor costs due to organized crime - err- labor - then we'll never see it. They know it won't sell for that much. So either they are being greedy or realistic. I'll let ypou decide which! :dontknow:

And BTW, my Wife 1spydercat1 has said the same thing about some Harley's built more to accomodate women for years. I think there is a bigger market there than they realize...

[NancysToy]

You know this looks reeeeally close but I don't remember the wheels looking like that. It had a real classic look to it. This could have been it though simply with different wheels. My Brother-in-law at the time who owned the bike said it was kind of rare and to be very careful with it, which of course I was. He also had a couple of classic Indians; the ones with the suicide shifters! Those I did not ride. That HD was a great ride, I'll tell you that. Of course I was young and didn't know any better! All I knew was that I was havin a whole lot of fun! :ohyea:
Classic Indians (or Harleys) don't have "suicide shifters" They have tank mounted hand shifters. You are probably thinking of a "suicide clutch". These cycles didn't have that, either, unless they were modified...which many were. The standard clutch was a heel-toe foot clutch, that held position unless you moved it. If modified to have a spring return, so you held it down and let it out like a car clutch, it was called a "suicide clutch". Not that difficult, once you are used to them, although some variations of this modification were tricky. BTW, the most difficult thing for me to get used to on my old Indian was the left-hand throttle, combined with the right-hand, twist-grip spark retard. :yikes:

[tweeder]

I'm not that much of a loyalist due to the cost of things. Now keep in mind that i'm young and don't understand economics but I do understand that I as well as others work hard for there money and need it to go farther. I think it's greed from the companies on behalf of the shareholders. I work in an aluminum smelter and I see first hand how profits are put before all else but they can't say that because of liabilities. But is see it even more when companies offer stuff on sale, not just 10% off or anything. I'm talking 50-70% off, and they are still turning a profit at that. That shows how much of a mark up some things are.

[boborgera]

I'm not that much of a loyalist due to the cost of things. Now keep in mind that i'm young and don't understand economics but I do understand that I as well as others work hard for there money and need it to go farther. I think it's greed from the companies on behalf of the shareholders. I work in an aluminum smelter and I see first hand how profits are put before all else but they can't say that because of liabilities. But is see it even more when companies offer stuff on sale, not just 10% off or anything. I'm talking 50-70% off, and they are still turning a profit at that. That shows how much of a mark up some things are.

Economics = you have 5 grand to invest in a company.
Company 1 sells their product at a almost cost.
Company 2 sells their product at larger profit.
Company 1 gives you a dividend of One percent on your investment.
Company 2 gives you a dividend of Five percent on your investment.
Which Company are you going to invest your money in??
Not saying it's right or wrong, but all companies need investment money.

.

[Bob Denman]

+Wouldn't stay down, huh?

Well, then, Bob, knockdown number 2 is my 2656th Victory off the line, which still runs fine with over 200,000 miles.

Made in U.S.A. with more American content than H-D.

My dad used to box. Stay down, will ya'?

Ride on.
Roadkill
http://www.roadkillonline.net/imagedb_images/35_10319.JPG
You're right... I DID completely forget about Victory... And I'm a big fan of Polaris too! (Rode 'em for years!) But a barstool powered by a 350 Chevy V-8 just says "American" in such a funky way! :D:roflblack:
You ain't that far from me... We should plan some rides...nojoke

[Raptor]

Classic Indians (or Harleys) don't have "suicide shifters" They have tank mounted hand shifters. You are probably thinking of a "suicide clutch". These cycles didn't have that, either, unless they were modified...which many were. The standard clutch was a heel-toe foot clutch, that held position unless you moved it. If modified to have a spring return, so you held it down and let it out like a car clutch, it was called a "suicide clutch". Not that difficult, once you are used to them, although some variations of this modification were tricky. BTW, the most difficult thing for me to get used to on my old Indian was the left-hand throttle, combined with the right-hand, twist-grip spark retard. :yikes:

You are right Scotty. I am not well versed in the area of classic motorcycles. What I do know is that these bikes were pretty special! Needless to say I did not ride the Indians; I just admired them from afar!

The right handed throttle would reeeeelly throw me!! I mean literally! I suspect I would not stay on the bike for very long!! :roflblack:

[irish2themax]

Many reasons why mfg in the USA has tanked. Some are:

-Taxes on corporations (depending where you live - for example... CT is one of the most unfriendly business states in the Nation)

-Energy costs to make the product - For example, CT is 2nd highest in the nation for energy costs

-Through the years as people have demanded higher salaries, it's increased the price of everything

- organized labor


That IMHO is the crux of the problem. We are our own worst enemy. The US has a widespread serious, if not fatal, ebbtide in manufacturing. Over the years, unions have been very successful in negotiating continuing increases in worker wages and I have to tip my hat to their success. However, it is exactly that success that has contributed to this ebbtide. As companies seek to increase their profit margins (afterall that's why they're in business), they are forced to find cheaper supplies and labor labor. As a result, we have priced ourselves out of the competition.

[Smylinacha]

That IMHO is the crux of the problem. We are our own worst enemy. The US has a widespread serious, if not fatal, ebbtide in manufacturing. Over the years, unions have been very successful in negotiating continuing increases in worker wages and I have to tip my hat to their success. However, it is exactly that success that has contributed to this ebbtide. As companies seek to increase their profit margins (afterall that's why they're in business), they are forced to find cheaper supplies and labor labor. As a result, we have priced ourselves out of the competition.

EXACTLY! it's our downfall - we priced ourselves right out of competition.

[Firefly]

What it comes down to is greed. It's not that these companies weren't making money when using US workers--- they just wanted to make MORE to keep the board and shareholders rolling in the green.... and they had the market flooded with cheaper foreign products which made it hard to compete.

So yes--- we are our own worst enemies----everyone wants everything dirt cheap -- and the big wigs want to pinch every last dime out of profit.

Had to go to a meeting at our local HD shop yesterday--- was hard pressed to find anything made in the US. Saw tags from Indonesia, Taiwan, India, China, etc.... Yeah $60 for a T-shirt that they had made in Indonesia for .25 ... unreal. Makes me sick.

[Campverdefela]

The Spyder also has parts from Vietnam....:gaah:

---------------------

The difficulty here is that this comes at a time when HD has threatened to close down their assembly plant in Wisconsin because they claim labor is too expensive. They employ 1,600 there.

How long will it be before they decide to use the cheap labor over there to ship parts back over here? They already have their lights and electronics made in Japan and China.....

HD makes more money from T-shirt sales alone than ALL other items (including bikes) they sell COMBINED---- and I guarantee those shirts are not made in the USA.

Sad sign of the times. Makes me sick.
BRP take note of this and start loading up the tee's at your dealers. I for one have my share but theirs always room for one more.

[Smylinacha]

What it comes down to is greed. It's not that these companies weren't making money when using US workers--- they just wanted to make MORE to keep the board and shareholders rolling in the green.... and they had the market flooded with cheaper foreign products which made it hard to compete.

So yes--- we are our own worst enemies----everyone wants everything dirt cheap -- and the big wigs want to pinch every last dime out of profit.

Had to go to a meeting at our local HD shop yesterday--- was hard pressed to find anything made in the US. Saw tags from Indonesia, Taiwan, India, China, etc.... Yeah $60 for a T-shirt that they had made in Indonesia for .25 ... unreal. Makes me sick.

I bought a 1/2 helmet at the HD store in IL when we were there seeing our youngest graduate Naval Bootcamp - I did good - it was only $60 but that is RARE. It was on clearance. Probably an old style, who knows but I bought it. I spent good money on their FXRG stuff a few years back and it's warranty'd for 5 years and it's good stuff (not made in America though) but it keeps me very warm and dry. I would NEVER buy tshirts there though - yup, they want over $50 and the girl's stuff cost even more than the guy's stuff.

You even gotta watch what stuff you buy at the grocery store. Read the labels - especially if shopping in a discount store - I've read about toothpaste from China that has lead in it.

Yes, there is corporate greed, I agree with you on that but there's also global competition we have to compete with and we cannot afford to make the same stuff we used to make because it simply costs too much due to labor, taxation due to location for some states. It amazes me, all these kids who are gonna have major student loans due from the fancy colleges and no jobs for them.

[Smylinacha]

The last American clothing manufacturer - with an ever growing workforce :D

http://www.prisonblues.com/default.htm

Wonder how much their stuff is, couldn't find any pricing. But yeah, it's an ever growing workforce alright!

[Wildrice]

Now when they say my bike is a rice burner I can tell them they ride a curry burner. :clap:

I've had a few Hayabusa's-& Harleys--currently a 2007 Velocity Stage 2 Turbo. When they call it a rice burner I ask them to go for a comparison ride & "I'll fry their rice for them" :yes:

[effgjamis]

I couldn't believe the CNN report but here it is.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/04/india.bikes/index.html

Happy that the Spyder will still be made in America (North America).

Riding is like Meditation....


Humm Interesting...... I thought Spyder was manufactured in Quebec, and I heard Mexico.

[MouthPiece]

Humm Interesting...... I thought Spyder was manufactured in Quebec, and I heard Mexico.


WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's great to see this post. Hope all is well with you Forrest.

Chris

[Cruzr Joe]

Funny as hell .................. This post started back in 2010.


Cruzr Joe

[manxman]

Aren't the Enfields built in India also? (have you looked at one of them??:shocked: build quality just ain't in their vocabulary!) If Harley is outsourcing to there I bid them goodbye and wish them well...:gaah:

Enfield is made in India, it started in WW2 when the factory in England could not keep up with the demand. After the war the factory was eventually sold to India holdings. And your right about the quality, it was not up to the post war Enfields that were sold in England in the fifties.

[ThreeWheels]

The Spyder is built in North America with various parts from China.

I'm guessing the windshield arm on the RTs are made in China.

[Bob Denman]

:oldpost:
Archeology is often best-left to the experts... :roflblack:

[Wildrice]

Can we call this a true merger between H-D and Indian????

Now where will a find a "burka" to replace my helmet????
Darrell

[jaherbst]

Is that just your opinion or do you have some facts to back that up.

I have not had even one minor issue with my Harley. Granted it only has 20,000 miles on it and virtually none in the last two years since I got the Spyder. But from what I know (and sometimes that isn't much) and the people I know that own Harley's, they are not a troublesome machine and are very well built.

65,000 on my Harley Ultra Classic and did not turn a screw. How many times have you had your Spyder in after 65,000 miles?

Jack

[GOZFST]

Humm Interesting...... I thought Spyder was manufactured in Quebec, and I heard Mexico.
UMM Quebec and Mexico ARE in N. America.

[Bob Denman]

I thought that Mexico was considered part of central America... :dontknow:

[3-togo]

That IMHO is the crux of the problem. We are our own worst enemy. The US has a widespread serious, if not fatal, ebbtide in manufacturing. Over the years, unions have been very successful in negotiating continuing increases in worker wages and I have to tip my hat to their success. However, it is exactly that success that has contributed to this ebbtide. As companies seek to increase their profit margins (afterall that's why they're in business), they are forced to find cheaper supplies and labor labor. As a result, we have priced ourselves out of the competition.

Yes, let's do everything possible to eliminate the middle class. Have any you looked at what really drives the economic cycle in our wonderful country. Domestic consumerism makes up a large part of our economy. So let's pay everybody less and start a perpetual recession for the betterment of those at the top of economic pyramid. Also, let's give more power to Wall Street so they can stage anthor coup to destroy our country, economically. No one cares or seems to remember how close we came to destroying ourselves. No one even received punishment. But many Americans lost a substantial amount from their retirement accounts. Oh,well, why do I bother. Have a Merry Christmas.

[Bob Denman]

Yes, let's do everything possible to eliminate the middle class. Have any you looked at what really drives the economic cycle in our wonderful country. Domestic consumerism makes up a large part of our economy. So let's pay everybody less and start a perpetual recession for the betterment of those at the top of economic pyramid. Also, let's give more power to Wall Street so they can stage anthor coup to destroy our country, economically. No one cares or seems to remember how close we came to destroying ourselves. No one even received punishment. But many Americans lost a substantial amount from their retirement accounts. Oh,well, why do I bother. Have a Merry Christmas.

You get "Loopy", when you're hungry; eat a Snickers Bar! :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BPLR9l0CYA&feature=player_detailpage#t=8


This thread is so old, that virtually said seven years' ago; applies today...

[Wildrice]

65,000 on my Harley Ultra Classic and did not turn a screw. How many times have you had your Spyder in after 65,000 miles?

Jack

Jack---that's because all the screws fell out at 3000 miles :-)..In 1954 I was riding an Allis Chalmers & a Case + dually rear wheel box truck. I really miss milking those cows at 5:30AM in -20 degree weather. Best yet was letting them out of the barn in the Spring time & having them eat fresh grass===rear end gas explosions during milking--they could blow a stream for 10' easy--needed to walk with caution & run wihen tail raised:yikes:.

[ARtraveler]

Since the thread originated in November of 2010...does anyone know if HD really went to India to have their machines built. I am thinking they are still alive and well in Milwaukee WI.

Good to re-read and see some of our friends who are no longer posting and even a couple that have passed on.

Welcome back Forrest.

[Rocketman 2012]

Harley Davidson just signed a new win-win contract with their representing Unions.

They have been producing bikes in India for some time and successfully so. Probably right next door to the huge DELL COMPUTER world wide service center.

At heart, I am an isolationist. I could give a big poop about Globalization or income equality that somehow lowers our (American citizens) income and quality of life. Manufacture here and sell here and do so using American Citizens. This may be controversial but I could care less about DIVERSITY or multiculturalism. I really don't care where "WE" all came from 300 years ago or if the so called cradle of civilization was in South Africa, I'm talking about now. Celebrate your cultural pride in your own country but when you come here, become a 'Flag waving' American or just stay home and change your country to suit you. Don't change mine;)

You LIB's will say this sounds Racist since it your standard reply now but something has to be done to stop this Division of so called cultures and to stop these ANARCHIST from ruining this society.

Sam:yes: