Can Shortee Antenna Be Used For CB Only?

[1551retired]

I see there is a SHORTEE antenna available for the RT. My antenna for the CB broke off the other day and the dealer is trying to get BRP to replace it under warranty. Does anyone know if the SHORTEE can be used for CB only and if so how it is tuned? I tried PMing Magic Man but haven't gotten a reply to date.

Thanks.

[NancysToy]

I see there is a SHORTEE antenna available for the RT. My antenna for the CB broke off the other day and the dealer is trying to get BRP to replace it under warranty. Does anyone know if the SHORTEE can be used for CB only and if so how it is tuned? I tried PMing Magic Man but haven't gotten a reply to date.

Thanks.
Call him on the phone.

[SpyderFun]

The SHORTEE antenna can be used in both locations. Reception for radio is great. They look good and you no longer look like you are going to a Pole Vault Meet. On the plus side it is a lot easier to install the cover.

Doc


:helpsmilie:
I seem to have a problem getting good radio reception but then again I have not tried to use the OEM antenna from BRP. I use the XM or iPod because of it.

Anyone have any ideas on why I may be having poor radio reception? :dontknow:
And the antenna lead is connected to the radio receiver under the pax audio control panel.

[NancysToy]

:helpsmilie:
I seem to have a problem getting good radio reception but then again I have not tried to use the OEM antenna from BRP. I use the XM or iPod because of it.

Anyone have any ideas on why I may be having poor radio reception? :dontknow:
And the antenna lead is connected to the radio receiver under the pax audio control panel.
My reception isn't so hot with stock, either. Very local stations only, and then they fade and have static. The iPod is the answer for me.

[Magic Man]

My reception isn't so hot with stock, either. Very local stations only, and then they fade and have static. The iPod is the answer for me.


:agree:

The RT does not get the best reception with stock antennas ether.

MM

[widowmaker2011]

:agree:

The RT does not get the best reception with stock antennas ether.

MM

Not to muddy up the situation but I thought the same thing of my RTS until I rode my wifes RTS and she was pulling in stations from 60 miles away. I would get reception only in the "metro" area of a city and once in the outskirts it was gone. Her RTS got great reception even from the next market area. In the garage my RTS got NO stations , hers pulled in the locals static free. I checked a bunch of stuff and found not loose connections on the antanae or grounds etc. I had that RTS about 2 weeks and the dealer traded me due to an issue it developed (exhaust leak-broken pipe) that would have delayed a long planned trip south. That being said , my new RTS is just like my wifes. I commute daily from Rochester to Buffalo (60 miles city center to city center) and get both Buffalo and Rochester stations fine. So there are some RT's with a definite variance in reception.

[Magic Man]

So there are some RT's with a definite variance in reception.


:agree::agree::agree:

MM

[1551retired]

My reception isn't so hot with stock, either. Very local stations only, and then they fade and have static. The iPod is the answer for me.

My concern was not reception but rather how the short antenna matches up with the CB transmitter. A CB antenna needs to be tuned (SWR) so that the CB transmitter receives minimal signal reflection otherwise you can damage the CB transmitter. I'm told the CB on the RT is inline loaded so the antenna does not need to be tuned.

[SpyderFun]

Not to muddy up the situation but I thought the same thing of my RTS until I rode my wifes RTS and she was pulling in stations from 60 miles away. I would get reception only in the "metro" area of a city and once in the outskirts it was gone. Her RTS got great reception even from the next market area. In the garage my RTS got NO stations , hers pulled in the locals static free. I checked a bunch of stuff and found not loose connections on the antanae or grounds etc. I had that RTS about 2 weeks and the dealer traded me due to an issue it developed (exhaust leak-broken pipe) that would have delayed a long planned trip south. That being said , my new RTS is just like my wifes. I commute daily from Rochester to Buffalo (60 miles city center to city center) and get both Buffalo and Rochester stations fine. So there are some RT's with a definite variance in reception.

:banghead:
Seems the lack of "Quality Control" on behalf of BRP to produce similar radios, radios that actually work after installation, is simply inexplainable for any corporation these days. The amount of money we owners have spent on this product & its accessories DEMANDS that they actually work as advertised!

Oh well looks like this problem will be passed onto the dealer who will then charge BRP for the fix under "warranty work". This in turn will negatively effect their End Year Profit Margin which makes no business sense to me.

[Magic Man]

I'm told the CB on the RT is inline loaded so the antenna does not need to be tuned.


100% Correct.

You do all know we design motorcycle parts for a living not as a hobby right? :dontknow:

Given the spotless rep ESI has for designing and selling products that work as advertised, do any of you really think we'd release an antenna that did not work? Or better yet, one that blew up the CB?

We have been making and selling short antennas of our own design on Harley Davidsons for years and years, we have quite a bit of knowledge in making bike CB antennas.

These bikes use an internal load coil there by reducing the need for such tuning to the exterior antenna mass .

MM

[widowmaker2011]

100% Correct.

You do all know we design motorcycle parts for a living not as a hobby right? :dontknow:

Given the spotless rep ESI has for designing and selling products that work as advertised, do any of you really think we'd release an antenna that did not work? Or better yet, one that blew up the CB?

We have been making and selling short antennas of our own design on Harley Davidsons for years and years, we have quite a bit of knowledge in making bike CB antennas.

These bikes use an internal load coil there by reducing the need for such tuning to the exterior antenna mass .

MM

MM -I rarely disagree ,but...... I was an avid Ham and CB radio operator in my youth, (my father was chief engineer responsible for setting up radio and tv transmitters across the country) and our vehicles were laden down with every CB radio and antenna known to man and I learned much over the years as he drilled me full of information he assumed I needed when I took over his business (After learning what I needed to know I ended up liking grease and oil more than volts and ohms but had to learn it anyways). yes the internal load coil allows the use of a shorter antenna..and subsequent swr tuning.... however the ideal length of a cb antanna is still ~ 9 feet. The internal load coil in the Spyder setup allows the antenna to be less than 9 feet and still transmit and stay within the needed SWR. The load coil however is designed and tuned to the antenna length desired. While you are correct that using a shorter antenna will still work, Iand I agree, will not damage the radio) you will always have better swr with the original length that the load coil was designed for. Many riders may not see/need the difference and the transmitting results for them will be satisfactory. But there is a difference in transmission quality when you shorten the antenna, no load coil can overcome that in its entirety. Do I like the look and would I use your antenna? yep. just stating there will be a small transmission degradation that willl probably only be noticed by an acute CB'r.

[Magic Man]

MM -I rarely disagree ,but...... I was an avid Ham and CB radio operator in my youth, (my father was chief engineer responsible for setting up radio and tv transmitters across the country) and our vehicles were laden down with every CB radio and antenna known to man and I learned much over the years as he drilled me full of information he assumed I needed when I took over his business (After learning what I needed to know I ended up liking grease and oil more than volts and ohms but had to learn it anyways). yes the internal load coil allows the use of a shorter antenna..and subsequent swr tuning.... however the ideal length of a cb antanna is still ~ 9 feet. The internal load coil in the Spyder setup allows the antenna to be less than 9 feet and still transmit and stay within the needed SWR. The load coil however is designed and tuned to the antenna length desired. While you are correct that using a shorter antenna will still work, Iand I agree, will not damage the radio) you will always have better swr with the original length that the load coil was designed for. Many riders may not see/need the difference and the transmitting results for them will be satisfactory. But there is a difference in transmission quality when you shorten the antenna, no load coil can overcome that in its entirety. Do I like the look and would I use your antenna? yep. just stating there will be a small transmission degradation that willl probably only be noticed by an acute CB'r.



OK so now we'll get into it.

The antennas "mass" and surface area which most people think is it's length is what grabs the signal out of the air and really has nothing much to do with it's height in the air.

That is unless it is WAY up in the air to escape "ground clutter" like on a building or tower than that being free of the ground clutter it works better there too.

Case in point, if there is a bike on the ground and another along side it on a motorcycle lift, the bike on the lift will have it's antenna mast 3 feet higher than the bike alongside it on the ground. Yet even though it's antenna is 3 feet higher there will be no better reception as the "mass; of the antennas is the same and those 3 whole feet higher that the one antenna is really means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

So the height of the antenna is really not what is important in this case, it is it's mass and surface area that really make it antenna work.

The shortee antenna because it is coiled at it's base is almost as long as the stock antenna as each coil is almost 3 inches long pulled out flat. It is only about 2 inches shorter than the stock one. The load coil is not so razor edge tuned as to see this small mass differance.

Also the load coils is just that "coiled" it's job is to add "mass" the same way. Being long and flat really is not the determining factor in the "mass" issue, nor really height in the air. (within reason)

So, you'll find the Shortee has almost the same metal mass as a stock antenna does. Also, because the Shortee is not covered in any plastic or rubber coating it also receives the signal easier than antennas that are covered with those materials.

Bottom line, we have sold thousands, yes thousands (6000) of these antennas over the years and have always told someone if they did not like it's performance to return it. To date we have not gotten any back yet. Most time we sell these in the hundreds at a Rally and tell the people "go try it on your bike and if you don't like it than bring it back we're here all week," still no returns.

So, all I can I can say is, that unless something else is up with bike the Shortee will work very well on the RT with no reduction in reception.

MM

MM

[1551retired]

OK so now we'll get into it.

So, all I can I can say is, that unless something else is up with bike the Shortee will work very well on the RT with no reduction in reception.

MM

MM

I think widowmaker2011 is referring to transmitting, not reception. Sure antenna "mass" has a lot to do with reception but antenna length (ideally tuned to 1/4 wavelength) has a lot to do with effective power transmitted. Without a 1 to 1 SWR or close to that the transmitter's output power is not effectively radiated. This is probably not that critical in a motorcycle environment as long as enough power is transmitted for local communication and reflected power is not enough to damage the final output stage of the CB. Certainly a shorter antenna is desirable on a motorcycle and why I plan to use the Shortee.

[widowmaker2011]

Here is what I said- "...........Do I like the look and would I use your antenna? yep. just stating there will be a small transmission degradation that willl probably only be noticed by an acute CB'r."

Here is what you said......"So, all I can I can say is, that unless something else is up with bike the Shortee will work very well on the RT with no reduction in reception."

I didn't mention reception , I mentioned transmission , and also that I LIKED THE ANTENNA and would buy it. That being said, I stand behind my statements. I was merely answering a generalized question about the effect of transmission quality as it relates to the length of a CB antenna based upon my experience in this field. wow. :yikes:

[1551retired]

Ok, I have the definitive word from the RT CB Manufacturer and yes the shorter antenna could damage the CB.

"Hello,

Yes the CB is tuned to put out 4 watts maximum per the FCC.

The CB antenna is pre tuned to have a SWR that is less than 2:1 where BRP has chosen to locate it on the vehicle. Shorting the antenna is not a thing that you want to do as it will throw out the SWR and compromise the performance of the CB. You would also possibly damage the unit with higher SWR that would result with a modified antenna if not tuned correctly.

If you have any other questions, I will be happy to assist you.

Best regards,

John Smith
Senior Technical Advisor
johns@radiosound.com (johns@radiosound.com) "

[TicketBait]

Ok, I have the definitive word from the RT CB Manufacturer and yes the shorter antenna could damage the CB.

"Hello,

Yes the CB is tuned to put out 4 watts maximum per the FCC.

The CB antenna is pre tuned to have a SWR that is less than 2:1 where BRP has chosen to locate it on the vehicle. Shorting the antenna is not a thing that you want to do as it will throw out the SWR and compromise the performance of the CB. You would also possibly damage the unit with higher SWR that would result with a modified antenna if not tuned correctly.

If you have any other questions, I will be happy to assist you.

Best regards,

John Smith
Senior Technical Advisor
johns@radiosound.com (johns@radiosound.com) "

:yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes:

[widowmaker2011]

Ok, I have the definitive word from the RT CB Manufacturer and yes the shorter antenna could damage the CB.

"Hello,

Yes the CB is tuned to put out 4 watts maximum per the FCC.

The CB antenna is pre tuned to have a SWR that is less than 2:1 where BRP has chosen to locate it on the vehicle. Shorting the antenna is not a thing that you want to do as it will throw out the SWR and compromise the performance of the CB. You would also possibly damage the unit with higher SWR that would result with a modified antenna if not tuned correctly.

If you have any other questions, I will be happy to assist you.

Best regards,

John Smith
Senior Technical Advisor
johns@radiosound.com (johns@radiosound.com) "

Shocker.......

[clueless]

Ok, I have the definitive word from the RT CB Manufacturer and yes the shorter antenna could damage the CB.

"Hello,

Yes the CB is tuned to put out 4 watts maximum per the FCC.

The CB antenna is pre tuned to have a SWR that is less than 2:1 where BRP has chosen to locate it on the vehicle. Shorting the antenna is not a thing that you want to do as it will throw out the SWR and compromise the performance of the CB. You would also possibly damage the unit with higher SWR that would result with a modified antenna if not tuned correctly.

If you have any other questions, I will be happy to assist you.

Best regards,

John Smith
Senior Technical Advisor
johns@radiosound.com (johns@radiosound.com) "

yeah but they said the shortee antenna is coiled at the base so its only 2 inches shorter then stock.

[clueless]

Not to muddy up the situation but I thought the same thing of my RTS until I rode my wifes RTS and she was pulling in stations from 60 miles away. I would get reception only in the "metro" area of a city and once in the outskirts it was gone. Her RTS got great reception even from the next market area. In the garage my RTS got NO stations , hers pulled in the locals static free. I checked a bunch of stuff and found not loose connections on the antanae or grounds etc. I had that RTS about 2 weeks and the dealer traded me due to an issue it developed (exhaust leak-broken pipe) that would have delayed a long planned trip south. That being said , my new RTS is just like my wifes. I commute daily from Rochester to Buffalo (60 miles city center to city center) and get both Buffalo and Rochester stations fine. So there are some RT's with a definite variance in reception.

do you know the Spyder mfg date of the bad recpt one versus the two good recept ones?

[1551retired]

yeah but they said the shortee antenna is coiled at the base so its only 2 inches shorter then stock.


No, it's much, much shorter... the factory CB antenna is physically about 34 inches long but is made of a fiberglass core with fine wire wrapped/coiled around (hence the small ribs) making for a lot longer antenna. The factory CB antenna is custom made and tuned for the correct 1/4 or 5/8 wavelenght for CB transmission frequencies (this came from the Radio Sound, Inc. engineer). The shortee being a universal motorcycle antenna replacement is not long enough to be tuned for CB transmissions. Receiving CB signals with the shortee may be ok, but I'm convinced that using the shortee for CB transmitting will evenually harm the CB.

Don't get me wrong, the shortee is a good replacement for the AM/FM antenna and that's where I'll use it, but not the CB.

[clueless]

i thought the mfg said the shortee was *if you stretched out the coiled part* about 2 inches shorter.

http://www.esicycleproducts.com/shorteeantenna.jpg

[1551retired]

i thought the mfg said the shortee was *if you stretched out the coiled part* about 2 inches shorter.

http://www.esicycleproducts.com/shorteeantenna.jpg


I'm referring to the CB antenna mounted on the left side of the bike. If this is your bike in the picture you do not have a CB and have the short antenna mounted where the AM/FM/Weather radio antenna is located which shouldn't be a problem since it is receive only. :dontknow:

The shortee even stretched out is far, far shorter then the 34 inch OEM CB antenna with radiating wire wrapped around the thick fiberglass rod. Even if the shortee was only 1/4 inch shorter in total length it still would not match up with the CB transmitter since the SWR would be way out of spec.

I do know a little bit about radios and antennas having spent the early part of my career working as a RF design tech.

[NancysToy]

I, too, believe that using the Shortee might harm the CB during transmission. The only way to tell for certain is to use an SWR meter to measure the SWR with that antenna installed. The connectors may be non-standard, so that could be tricky. One plus...if it fails the SWR test it can still be used for the radio side, or sold.

[clueless]

I'm referring to the CB antenna mounted on the left side of the bike. If this is your bike in the picture you do not have a CB and have the short antenna mounted where the AM/FM/Weather radio antenna is located which shouldn't be a problem since it is receive only. :dontknow:

The shortee even stretched out is far, far shorter then the 34 inch OEM CB antenna with radiating wire wrapped around the thick fiberglass rod. Even if the shortee was only 1/4 inch shorter in total length it still would not match up with the CB transmitter since the SWR would be way out of spec.

I do know a little bit about radios and antennas having spent the early part of my career working as a RF design tech.

nope its the mfg picture. i have both cb and fm. my spyder is getting delivered tomorrow!

was just saying my interpretation from what magic man was posting to get clarification

using one shortee for fm and the full sized cb antena would defeat purpose of shortee imo

[1551retired]

nope its the mfg picture. i have both cb and fm. my spyder is getting delivered tomorrow!

was just saying my interpretation from what magic man was posting to get clarification

using one shortee for fm and the full sized cb antena would defeat purpose of shortee imo


:congrats:

MM's posts refer to antenna reception...as I've sad multiple times I'm referring to CB transmitting only.