Spyder running like crap again.

[WackyDan]

So... Took off last Sunday and headed out from Charlotte thru the Smokies. Ran the Dragon, and then proceeded to run down to Columbus AFB to see my nephew graduate from USAF flight school and get his wings.

Spyder ran great all the way through TN. I had changed plugs a week prior, changed the oil and air filter. I also changed the Y gaskets over to the Honda ones.

As we crossed into Alabama for Mississippi, she started to sputter at constant RPM. Felt like a wind push, but I can get her to do it at low speed as well. This feels exactly the same as when my O2 sensor went bad on my last trip in Florida, but far worse this time and I've not seen a single check engine light. The only real oddity is that I'm getting some popping on deceleration in low gear... So I'm wondering if I've got a bad header gasket or muffler gasket.

I'd like to think it is the high heat and humidity, but I somewhat doubt it. Just like my last trip, if I open her up, she runs just great. This is getting somewhat old. Two out of three trips with the Spyder and I'm having issues. I've got over 7k miles on her now, and this is just discouraging considering that I'm planning a near 4k trip for late June or sometime in July. If I can't get through a trip without an issue... Well, lets not go there right now.

I'm going to ride her back to Charlotte and see if she clears up... I may stop at Alcoa Good Times or Smith Power Sports to have them hook me up to buds and see what they find if anything. I'll likely head to Charlotte though given they are closed on Sunday, though Smith's is open on Monday.

[boborgera]

[QUOTE=WackyDan;217105]So... Took off last Sunday and headed out from Charlotte thru the Smokies. Ran the Dragon, and then proceeded to run down to Columbus AFB to see my nephew graduate from USAF flight school and get his wings.

Spyder ran great all the way through TN. I had changed plugs a week prior, changed the oil and air filter. I also changed the Y gaskets over to the Honda ones.

As we crossed into Alabama for Mississippi, she started to sputter at constant RPM. Felt like a wind push, but I can get her to do it at low speed as well. This feels exactly the same as when my O2 sensor went bad on my last trip in Florida, but far worse this time and I've not seen a single check engine light. The only real oddity is that I'm getting some popping on deceleration in low gear... /QUOTE]

What plugs did you change to? When i tried the iridium plugs i had almost the same problems.:dontknow:

[WackyDan]

[QUOTE=WackyDan;217105]So... Took off last Sunday and headed out from Charlotte thru the Smokies. Ran the Dragon, and then proceeded to run down to Columbus AFB to see my nephew graduate from USAF flight school and get his wings.

Spyder ran great all the way through TN. I had changed plugs a week prior, changed the oil and air filter. I also changed the Y gaskets over to the Honda ones.

As we crossed into Alabama for Mississippi, she started to sputter at constant RPM. Felt like a wind push, but I can get her to do it at low speed as well. This feels exactly the same as when my O2 sensor went bad on my last trip in Florida, but far worse this time and I've not seen a single check engine light. The only real oddity is that I'm getting some popping on deceleration in low gear... /QUOTE]

What plugs did you change to? When i tried the iridium plugs i had almost the same problems.:dontknow:

stock plugs

[Some Guy]

What plugs did you change to? When i tried the iridium plugs i had almost the same problems.:dontknow:

I've been running the iridium plugs for 3k with no problems. Did you have the correct gap?

[effgjamis]

I've been running the iridium plugs for 3k with no problems. Did you have the correct gap?

What is the correct gap for the iridium plugs??

[Some Guy]

What is the correct gap for the iridium plugs??

The owner's manual says .027 to .031 in. I believe I split the difference and went with .029 in.

[boborgera]

I've been running the iridium plugs for 3k with no problems. Did you have the correct gap?

Yep, correct gap. Correct heat paste. I put a little over 12 hundred miles on them.
Took them out put new stock back in ran like it should run ''great''
What works for one doesn't always work for all.
:dontknow: .

[Some Guy]

Yep, correct gap. Correct heat paste. I put a little over 12 hundred miles on them.
Took them out put new stock back in ran like it should run ''great''
What works for one doesn't always work for all.
:dontknow: .

I know what you mean. I think every Spyder has its own personality! nojoke

[SpyderWolf]

Sorry to hear about this Dan. Hopefully it will clear up for you, but if it doesn't then let us know what you find the cause to be.

[Tom in NM]

Dan, one thing for you and the shop to check is the external temperature and air pressure sensor. This is the sensor that feeds the the ECU and impacts/determines the Spyder's fuel mapping. If it goes bad, the Spyder will be getting inaccurate data and I am told, that can result in the engine running (increasingly) lean, rough running, stalls, backfiring, and so on. (technically referred to as "running like crap")

I think mine is failing. My dash temp gauge has been showing anywhere from a 10 to 20 degrees difference in the real ambient temperature - it was hot here in NM Thursday, but not 135F. I checked and had my shop check that the sensor was properly installed ( they were not on some Spyders ).

The recommended procedure for determining if the sensor is going bad is to install a new one and see if that solves the problem and the temperature display is displaying the 'correct' temperature. As I understand it, if this sensor is failing, it will not display any errors in BUDS.

So, if your temperature gauge is reading a significantly different temperature than the real temperature - have them look at this. ( or borrow somebody's and test it out )

You may also check to see if your sensor is installed right - and free of dirt/mud/tar - which could also impact its performance.

MDMINC posted good instructions: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=203155&postcount=5

Tom

[Firefly]

I would (and did) trash that O2 sensor and just run the O2 mod from Evoluzione.....:thumbup:

[Tom in NM]

I would (and did) trash that O2 sensor and just run the O2 mod from Evoluzione.....:thumbup:

:dontknow: Is that the same sensor? I thought O2 sensors were generally located in the "exhaust" system and in the engine carb/fuel injection systems (pre & post burn). I have never thought of an "air pressure" or "atmospheric pressure" sensor as an O2 sensor. Locating an O2 sensor (given my past understanding) at the horn, makes no sense. If so, that makes it just one more thing to add to an already long list. :D

Tom

[docdoru]

1. Have you done the Update #2?
2. The service should check the ignition coils and any cables...:dontknow:

[bodymanpainter]

So... Took off last Sunday and headed out from Charlotte thru the Smokies. Ran the Dragon, and then proceeded to run down to Columbus AFB to see my nephew graduate from USAF flight school and get his wings.

Spyder ran great all the way through TN. I had changed plugs a week prior, changed the oil and air filter. I also changed the Y gaskets over to the Honda ones.

As we crossed into Alabama for Mississippi, she started to sputter at constant RPM. Felt like a wind push, but I can get her to do it at low speed as well. This feels exactly the same as when my O2 sensor went bad on my last trip in Florida, but far worse this time and I've not seen a single check engine light. The only real oddity is that I'm getting some popping on deceleration in low gear... So I'm wondering if I've got a bad header gasket or muffler gasket.

I'd like to think it is the high heat and humidity, but I somewhat doubt it. Just like my last trip, if I open her up, she runs just great. This is getting somewhat old. Two out of three trips with the Spyder and I'm having issues. I've got over 7k miles on her now, and this is just discouraging considering that I'm planning a near 4k trip for late June or sometime in July. If I can't get through a trip without an issue... Well, lets not go there right now.

I'm going to ride her back to Charlotte and see if she clears up... I may stop at Alcoa Good Times or Smith Power Sports to have them hook me up to buds and see what they find if anything. I'll likely head to Charlotte though given they are closed on Sunday, though Smith's is open on Monday.


My wife's 08 RS is in the shop now for the same thing, as of yet the dealer has not found the problem. Have you noticed a strong gas smell coming from the engine while riding?:gaah:

[WackyDan]

My wife's 08 RS is in the shop now for the same thing, as of yet the dealer has not found the problem. Have you noticed a strong gas smell coming from the engine while riding?:gaah:

No. All updates are done too.

[Longlegs]

Mine has been running like crap too. I smell like gas fumes when I get done riding. It loads up bad when riding around town. Then it just misses hesitates and pops. I thought when I rode the first time this spring it was just needing to run the old gas out. But when I changed the stock pipe back to the Micron, I really noticed how bad it was, because you can hear every pop and miss. I switched back to the stock pipe yesterday to see how it would run. On todays ride it was just as bad. Lots of exhaust fumes still. I am pretty sure I have one or both of the exhaust gaskets up before the collector one bad. I am just gonna let the dealer look at it, since they are doing the brake job tomorro anyway. I don't know what the "second update" is called, but I have campaigns 2008-3, 6, 7, 9.
6 is the DPS update and 9 is an ECM update.

[WackyDan]

Well... I left Columbus AFB (Mississippi) at 6am this morning.

Rode 624 miles home and got in at 10pm est.

Bike ran fine for the most part this am. Seemed to like it cooler and less humid. By late morning, temp bars were sitting at 4 and then 5 and bike was sputtering on and off. I'll tell you, it does sound and act like it is "loading up", but my only experience with that previously was on boats. By late in the day when the sun was dropping, and I was further north, she was starting to run better once again though I noticed she was wanting to run at 4 and 5 bars. Seemed to be running hotter than usual. By night fall, she was running three bars and moving along nicely.

So... Not sure what to do. Going to wash her and drop her at the dealer some time this week.

Will have them check the following:

- O2 Sensor
- Header and muffler gaskets
- Muffler... Wonder if the stock muffler has a bad cat in it or not
- Coil and plug wires

[musicarcade]

Happy to hear you made it back OK!:2thumbs:
Hope you had that Monkey Butt Powder handy.:shocked:
..:roflblack:
Curious- do you have the MAD mod?

[WackyDan]

yup... MAD is installed. Worked great on way down.


Happy to hear you made it back OK!:2thumbs:
Hope you had that Monkey Butt Powder handy.:shocked:
..:roflblack:
Curious- do you have the MAD mod?

[kman]

Mine did the same thing last summer,ran terrible the hotter it got.Came to the conclusion it was running too lean,installed juicebox and have dialed it in and runs better than ever.I have only had the first update done.:2thumbs:

[Firefly]

:dontknow: Is that the same sensor? I thought O2 sensors were generally located in the "exhaust" system and in the engine carb/fuel injection systems (pre & post burn). I have never thought of an "air pressure" or "atmospheric pressure" sensor as an O2 sensor. Locating an O2 sensor (given my past understanding) at the horn, makes no sense. If so, that makes it just one more thing to add to an already long list. :D

Tom

I'm referring to the O2 sensor in the exhaust - which I believe is what Dan had go bad once before. The air sensor near the front of the bike is a totally different thing - and I would think less prone to failure since it's not connected to a hot exhaust pipe. The O2 mod from Evoluzione eliminates the O2 mod that is in the exhaust pipe.:thumbup:

[SpyderWolf]

I'm referring to the O2 sensor in the exhaust - which I believe is what Dan had go bad once before. The air sensor near the front of the bike is a totally different thing - and I would think less prone to failure since it's not connected to a hot exhaust pipe. The O2 mod from Evoluzione eliminates the O2 mod that is in the exhaust pipe.:thumbup:

Do you know how much it is for the stock exhaust sensor? Might be worth having a spare on hand if it is not too expensive.

[WackyDan]

Do you know how much it is for the stock exhaust sensor? Might be worth having a spare on hand if it is not too expensive.

Thought of that... slight pain to replace... Can only carry so many tools as it is now. Plus you have to pull part of the wheel well to get at the connector.

Most O2 sensors for cars run $60 to $100 bucks... Pretty sure Spyder uses some sort of standard type O2 sensor.

But.... When O2 sensor goes, the Spyder still runs, so I wouldn't call this a must have spare.

[Firefly]

Do you know how much it is for the stock exhaust sensor? Might be worth having a spare on hand if it is not too expensive.


$90 for a new O2 sensor. Same price as the O2 mod from Evoluzione.... which just send a fake signal telling the system you're running lean and to richen things up....:thumbup:

[SpyderWolf]

Thought of that... slight pain to replace... Can only carry so many tools as it is now. Plus you have to pull part of the wheel well to get at the connector.

Most O2 sensors for cars run $60 to $100 bucks... Pretty sure Spyder uses some sort of standard type O2 sensor.

But.... When O2 sensor goes, the Spyder still runs, so I wouldn't call this a must have spare.

Thanks Dan, and that makes a lot of sense as well. No need to keep one on hand when you can at least ryde it still.


$90 for a new O2 sensor. Same price as the O2 mod from Evoluzione.... which just send a fake signal telling the system you're running lean and to richen things up....:thumbup:

Thanks Fly! In that case I may just go ahead and order one of these as a replacement. The only question now is will it work well with the stock air filter and Hindle? I am still not ready to bite the bullet and order the Juice Box Pro again. ;)

[Firefly]

Thanks Dan, and that makes a lot of sense as well. No need to keep one on hand when you can at least ryde it still.



Thanks Fly! In that case I may just go ahead and order one of these as a replacement. The only question now is will it work well with the stock air filter and Hindle? I am still not ready to bite the bullet and order the Juice Box Pro again. ;)

Yup-- will work fine with that combo.

[SpyderWolf]

Yup-- will work fine with that combo.

Thanks again. Let's push the envelope and say I put my K&N filter back in the air box. At that point would I be back in Juice Box of PC territory? I am really trying to avoid those mods right now. ;)

[Firefly]

Thanks again. Let's push the envelope and say I put my K&N filter back in the air box. At that point would I be back in Juice Box of PC territory? I am really trying to avoid those mods right now. ;)

Without adding some serious air like the Race-air or Kewlmetal--- not sure the JB is necessary. The O2 mod will tell the system you're running lean and to add more gas. The O2 mod and Ken's drop-in filter were the first performance mods I did - before the race-intake and full pressure mod --- and it made a VERY noticeable difference.:thumbup:

[SpyderWolf]

Without adding some serious air like the Race-air or Kewlmetal--- not sure the JB is necessary. The O2 mod will tell the system you're running lean and to add more gas. The O2 mod and Ken's drop-in filter were the first performance mods I did - before the race-intake and full pressure mod --- and it made a VERY noticeable difference.:thumbup:

Sounds good, so I may go ahead and give that a try. Worse case scenario I just drop the paper filter back in like I had to before. :thumbup:

[dave01]

After a lot of thought on this, I firmly believe the reason your Spyder is running like crap is because of the fumes in the air from the BP oil spill in the gulf. You should get in line to receive compensation for your time and troubles.

[SpyderWolf]

After a lot of thought on this, I firmly believe the reason your Spyder is running like crap is because of the fumes in the air from the BP oil spill in the gulf. You should get in line to receive compensation for your time and troubles.

:roflblack: Can I get in on some of that too? :roflblack:

[WackyDan]

After a lot of thought on this, I firmly believe the reason your Spyder is running like crap is because of the fumes in the air from the BP oil spill in the gulf. You should get in line to receive compensation for your time and troubles.

Hah.... Maybe it was the Jet fuel I stole from Columbus AFB. To think I thought it would make the Spyder faster. :D

I haven't done jack with the Spyder since I got home. After a week of riding, I didn't want to look at it much less sit on it. Washed it finally today.

Rally this weekend... so maybe next week I take it to the dealer. I want to do some shake down cruises this week to see how she is running from home base.

[412Spyder]

WackyDan this sound exactly like the problems i was having with my spyder... i took it to the dealer and they called me yesterday saying that the purge valve ( which was what a few members here told me it prob was too... these guys are good haha ) was bad and thats what was causing the bike to smell of gas and sputter the whole way through the powerband... i experienced the sputtering after sitting in stop and go traffic with hot temp and humid conditions around me. i would have them check that when i read your first post it sounded exactly like the problem i was experiencing. good luck hope everything gets cleared up.

[SpyderWolf]

WackyDan this sound exactly like the problems i was having with my spyder... i took it to the dealer and they called me yesterday saying that the purge valve ( which was what a few members here told me it prob was too... these guys are good haha ) was bad and thats what was causing the bike to smell of gas and sputter the whole way through the powerband... i experienced the sputtering after sitting in stop and go traffic with hot temp and humid conditions around me. i would have them check that when i read your first post it sounded exactly like the problem i was experiencing. good luck hope everything gets cleared up.

:2thumbs:

Thanks for that update on the situation with your Spyder. It will also give the rest of us another item to keep in the back of our minds if our Spyders start misbehaving like this. I hope they are able to get it back to you quickly as well.

[WackyDan]

WackyDan this sound exactly like the problems i was having with my spyder... i took it to the dealer and they called me yesterday saying that the purge valve ( which was what a few members here told me it prob was too... these guys are good haha ) was bad and thats what was causing the bike to smell of gas and sputter the whole way through the powerband... i experienced the sputtering after sitting in stop and go traffic with hot temp and humid conditions around me. i would have them check that when i read your first post it sounded exactly like the problem i was experiencing. good luck hope everything gets cleared up.


Thanks man... I forgot about the purge valve doing that. Forest and I looked at it in FLorida the last time. That is something you can check for function at home.

[Longlegs]

Dealer replaced exhaust gaskets. Seems to be running good now.

[YPILOT]

You may want to pull the top off of your air box and check for tar balls.:roflblack:


After a lot of thought on this, I firmly believe the reason your Spyder is running like crap is because of the fumes in the air from the BP oil spill in the gulf. You should get in line to receive compensation for your time and troubles.

[bone crusher]

WackyDan this sound exactly like the problems i was having with my spyder... i took it to the dealer and they called me yesterday saying that the purge valve ( which was what a few members here told me it prob was too... these guys are good haha ) was bad and thats what was causing the bike to smell of gas and sputter the whole way through the powerband... i experienced the sputtering after sitting in stop and go traffic with hot temp and humid conditions around me. i would have them check that when i read your first post it sounded exactly like the problem i was experiencing. good luck hope everything gets cleared up.


Wasn't this addressed with the second update? I thought there were some mechanical changes...(could be wrong on this and if so, what hardware was changed with the second update?)...I forgot...

[NancysToy]

Wasn't this addressed with the second update? I thought there were some mechanical changes...(could be wrong on this and if so, what hardware was changed with the second update?)...I forgot...
The purge valve vent was extended and the purge valve timing revised with the "second update". If the purge valve or purge valve solenoid actually fails, the update can't prevent this problem.

[krb1945]

I know a fellow that said his was running like dung too. He said his air box was full of oil... so he cleaned it out installed a device to slow the oil migration to the air box. He said now it is smooth as silk. I don't know if he also changed the air filter or not. And it is always possible that he moved a loose connector or something else.

However, he assured me it was not his imagination that it was running better. Ken krb1945

[WackyDan]

I know a fellow that said his was running like dung too. He said his air box was full of oil... so he cleaned it out installed a device to slow the oil migration to the air box. He said now it is smooth as silk. I don't know if he also changed the air filter or not. And it is always possible that he moved a loose connector or something else.

However, he assured me it was not his imagination that it was running better. Ken krb1945

I've got the oil catch can mod and only 1600 miles on this oil change with a new air filter. :)

Took it out last Saturday.... ran like crap once I had her running a while... Was hot and humid.

Took her out the other night at dark to the grocery store. Ran great, could not reproduce.... Of course at night it was cooler.