30 tooth front Sprocket

[Trumpybob]

Has anyone fitted the after market 30 tooth front sprocket, if so could you share your thoughts about same. I've just finished a 6500 km trip, 5,207 kms of which I logged for petrol, and used 399 litres of petrol. At about $1.30 a litre just wondering if I can save myself some money. Pluses and Minuses anyone?

[xpeschon]

Has anyone fitted the after market 30 tooth front sprocket, if so could you share your thoughts about same. I've just finished a 6500 km trip, 5,207 kms of which I logged for petrol, and used 399 litres of petrol. At about $1.30 a litre just wondering if I can save myself some money. Pluses and Minuses anyone?

I didn't know there was a 30 tooth front sprocket out there, can you post a link on who is manufacturing it for me.. Interested in this threat to see what members say about it if anyone has tried it.. I beleive there are 40 teeth on the original sprocket... Again, I think..

Joe
(X)

[xpeschon]

Here is a threat with a little bit of infor for you,, just incase you have not yet seen it is all,, it appears that I am way off on my number of teeth, that tells you how much I know about the whole gear ratio..

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13148&highlight=front+sprocket+tooth

Joe
(X)

[retired1]

I think Mels Monster Garage makes an after market sprocket.

[Freddy]

I think Mels Monster Garage makes an after market sprocket.

.... and sells em on ebay. A bit pricey tho.

[xpeschon]

28 teeth on the original sprocket,, I counted them last night.. Does that sound right?? I thought it was WAY more then that..

Joe
(X)

[xpeschon]

Ok-- Little bit more about the whole front sprocket-- On tuesday I had my dealership (cowtown usa in cuba mo) install the Kewlmetal Performance Air Intake along with a 29 teeth (or tooth if your from MO only) from Mels--also installed the Iridium plugs--I have only test drove it about 5 miles or so but,, I plan on riding it a bit over the week-end and today and will post a bit more after I truly get a feeling for it BUT--I will tell you this,, even though I have only drove it 5 miles it does feel a bit differant,, my whole thing is that I wanted to try and lower the RPM's a bit at higher speeds,, when I mean higher speeds I'm only talking about 80 MPH,,, I do not run my spyder as hard as others do I'm sure--Len at cowtown weighted the differances between the 2 gears and it shaved off about a pound, little less I just can't remember the exact weights,, maybe he will charm in and post the actually weights, however I believe it will do what I set out to accomplish,, time will tell but it is infact a 29 tooth sprocket and not the 30 you mentioned.... Again, I will let you know how it perform's over the week-end... Hope this helps..

Joe
(X)

[powerbyaj]

30 tooth sprocket did not work on my SE5. Would not downshift to first on quick stops. Transmission was unsure what to do in 4th and 5th gear above 60 kept receiving check transmission error. After receiving error had to down shift when transmission was in 5th and and up-shift when in 4th.

[Lamonster]

My concern about the aluminum sprocket is even though it's hard anodized (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-hard-anodizing.htm)that's still only a surface coating. There have been a few stock steel sprockets that have worn the splines out so I don't see this one lasting too long. Time will tell I guess.

[xpeschon]

Yah I hear ya.. Well I quess we'll find out, I can always go back to the original gear I suppose.. I'm not real hard on it but wear and tear is wear and tear..

Joe
(X)

[Dochands]

I finally decided to go ahead and order the 30 myself.

I figure I can always swap it out if there are problems. I am starting to realize that there is more different between a SM5 and SE5 then the convenience of a paddle shifter.

My hope is the 30 with my turbo will give me the '6th' gear I feel the bike craves. We shall see.

[Freddy]

My concern about the aluminum sprocket is even though it's hard anodized (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-hard-anodizing.htm)that's still only a surface coating. There have been a few stock steel sprockets that have worn the splines out so I don't see this one lasting too long. Time will tell I guess.


I share your concern. I'll be keeping a close eye on the torque of the bolt and will post any observations.

[AMTJIM]

I hope it lasts worth while, I'd love to see the rear pulley they claim to possibly be producing. A 800 to 1 k reduction in RPM's, especially for us 1 ups would be great. I'm so use to 5k at 80, I'm still trying to go to 6th on this machine...poor shift lever.

[woodchuck]

I hope it lasts worth while, I'd love to see the rear pulley they claim to possibly be producing. A 800 to 1 k reduction in RPM's, especially for us 1 ups would be great. I'm so use to 5k at 80, I'm still trying to go to 6th on this machine...poor shift lever.

Who is making the rear sprocket? I just ordered the 30 tooth sprocket. The spyder is geared to low for my likings. 4000rpm's at 55 mph and 4600 at 65 mph's. My brother has a valkyrie and at 55mph he is doing 2500 rpm's. a big difference.. The spyder has more than enough power so in my book it doesn't have to be geared that low. I shift from 1st to third to fifth because it is easier on the spyder.

[boborgera]

I hope it lasts worth while, I'd love to see the rear pulley they claim to possibly be producing. A 800 to 1 k reduction in RPM's, especially for us 1 ups would be great. I'm so use to 5k at 80, I'm still trying to go to 6th on this machine...poor shift lever.

:agree: I'm Wearing out my boot looking for the missing 6th.:D

[AMTJIM]

If it's still on there, Mels MG mentions it on their Ebay ad for the 29 and 30 tooth. A 30 on front and 2 removed from the rear would probably do it.

Who is making the rear sprocket? I just ordered the 30 tooth sprocket. The spyder is geared to low for my likings. 4000rpm's at 55 mph and 4600 at 65 mph's. My brother has a valkyrie and at 55mph he is doing 2500 rpm's. a big difference.. The spyder has more than enough power so in my book it doesn't have to be geared that low. I shift from 1st to third to fifth because it is easier on the spyder.

[AMTJIM]

Down in the Q&A of their Ebay Ad.



Q: Did you ever think about making a sprocket for the back wheel to cut down on the RPM's?This would help a lot. Did you ever investigate if a rear sprocket from some other manf. would fit? thanksMay-09-10A: Hi, Yes we thought about a rear. The chunk of aluminum is about $400.00. Then about 4-6 hours in machine time, each side. We thought about a 2 piece rear sprocket. Well we are still thinking about it? Possibly of it coming out in the fall, or introducing it in the spring next year? hopefully. Thank you for the suggestion keep them coming. God Bless and drive safe this year. Jimmy MMG

[woodchuck]

Has anyone fitted the after market 30 tooth front sprocket, if so could you share your thoughts about same. I've just finished a 6500 km trip, 5,207 kms of which I logged for petrol, and used 399 litres of petrol. At about $1.30 a litre just wondering if I can save myself some money. Pluses and Minuses anyone?

I just installed one on my 09 spyder. It wasn't that hard. It drop the rpm's
to 300, not 400 that they advertise. As far as gas mileage, I don't know because I didn't have the chance to ride yet. Been raining and cold since instalition. Will let you know. Bought fro:chat:m mel's garage on e-bay. Fast shipping.

[woodchuck]

I didn't know there was a 30 tooth front sprocket out there, can you post a link on who is manufacturing it for me.. Interested in this threat to see what members say about it if anyone has tried it.. I beleive there are 40 teeth on the original sprocket... Again, I think..

Joe
(X)
There is 28 teeth on original. I just took mine off and replaced it.

[AMTJIM]

I wonder if they are quoting the analog needle or digital tach display. Did you try both?

I just installed one on my 09 spyder. It wasn't that hard. It drop the rpm's
to 300, not 400 that they advertise. As far as gas mileage, I don't know because I didn't have the chance to ride yet. Been raining and cold since instalition. Will let you know. Bought fro:chat:m mel's garage on e-bay. Fast shipping.

[Freddy]

Has anyone fitted the after market 30 tooth front sprocket, if so could you share your thoughts about same. I've just finished a 6500 km trip, 5,207 kms of which I logged for petrol, and used 399 litres of petrol. At about $1.30 a litre just wondering if I can save myself some money. Pluses and Minuses anyone?


Have you seens thid Bob?

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18909

[woodchuck]

I just installed one on my 09 spyder. It wasn't that hard. It drop the rpm's
to 300, not 400 that they advertise. As far as gas mileage, I don't know because I didn't have the chance to ride yet. Been raining and cold since instalition. Will let you know. Bought fro:chat:m mel's garage on e-bay. Fast shipping.

Last weekend I went for a ride after putting on the 30 teeth sprocket It seems that at low speeds I have to down shift so the engine is not lugging. I put on the original exhaust and went a total of 156 miles and put in 4 Gallons of gas in the gas tank. That comes out to 39 MPG. Believe it or not that is the truth. Then I put on the after market exhaust and the mileage droped to 36 MPG. I lost 300 RPM's by putting on the 30 tooth sprocket. Not like it is advertised for 400 RPM's.:2thumbs: More than satisfied.:yes:

[irish2themax]

I have all the tech savvy of a rock. What does the number of teeth do?

[bone crusher]

I hope it lasts worth while, I'd love to see the rear pulley they claim to possibly be producing. A 800 to 1 k reduction in RPM's, especially for us 1 ups would be great. I'm so use to 5k at 80, I'm still trying to go to 6th on this machine...poor shift lever.

I see 5500 at 75mph...

[ataDude]

I have all the tech savvy of a rock. What does the number of teeth do?

More teeth on the front will lower the engine RPMs for any given speed. Going from a 28 to a 30 should lower the revs by about 7%.

.

[Raptor]

More teeth on the front will lower the engine RPMs for any given speed. Going from a 28 to a 30 should lower the revs by about 7%.

.

You are EXACTLY right!! However, for me, I would not do it for a couple of reasons. First, Lamont makes a good point about reliablity of the after market part.

Second, unlike many of you, I am actually groovin on the performance aspect of the experience. YES, I said performance experience! The low end torque and power band of this Rotax V990 is pretty darn good and delivers a great punch. Not Corvette punch, but prety close. I have gone from stop to 100+ in a very short time, and it's impressive enough for me to not want to change it.

Cornering is pretty fun too, tho I am anxiously awaiting delivery of my Evoluzione Sway bar; I'm still diving the front end even tho I have my shock pre-load tweaked to max. I am kinda big and stock aint gonna do it!

[Raptor]

I need to clarify something; It appears that from what I have read that "many of you" are super touring monsters! You guys are riding hundreds of miles ina single shot, and many are RT owners. I admire that!

However, Iam just an old racer and I can't seem to get on something (no matter what it is) and not want to go all out! :doorag: I can't help myself!! :D

Got nothin but love for you tour monsters, man! Ride on...

[AMTJIM]

5000 @ 80 refers to the stock sport v-twins I rode. I gave many of my machines sprocket changes for their purpose, dropping RPM's and increasing mileage for sport tourers happened a few times. 5500~6000 @ 75~80 feels weird. Funny how the body tunes to resonant frequency. I don't care if a down shift change is necessary to perform, I find myself always thinking about refueling on this machine. The placebo effect of an extra 5 miles + per gallon, I like it.

I see 5500 at 75mph...

[Raptor]

5000 @ 80 refers to the stock sport v-twins I rode. I gave many of my machines sprocket changes for their purpose, dropping RPM's and increasing mileage for sport tourers happened a few times. 5500~6000 @ 75~80 feels weird. Funny how the body tunes to resonant frequency. I don't care if a down shift change is necessary to perform, I find myself always thinking about refueling on this machine. The placebo effect of an extra 5 miles + per gallon, I like it.

True that. I hear where you are coming from. I can defintely see where the change would suit most riders. I just like grabbing throttle and getting that pull, man! The rev and compression aspect of "spirited" cornering is esential for me as well. Yet another reason why I will not change out.

It's just so cool when you pick your line, set her up, and just use the compression brake, smooth throttle and hang yer butt out there and attack the turns with very little brake. And then on exit grab that throttle again and scat out with authority. It's a rush!!

I will calm down eventually, but right now it's just FUN!! :D

[wtwing15]

Has anyone fitted the after market 30 tooth front sprocket, if so could you share your thoughts about same. I've just finished a 6500 km trip, 5,207 kms of which I logged for petrol, and used 399 litres of petrol. At about $1.30 a litre just wondering if I can save myself some money. Pluses and Minuses anyone?


My wife has a 30 tooth sprocket on her spyder we find it uses less petrol but you have to change down gears more often because the sprocket decreases the reves by 500 rpm

[YPILOT]

There was talk from Mel's awhile back about a 27 tooth gear which would increase low end performance. You may want to contact them and inquire about that.:D


True that. I hear where you are coming from. I can defintely see where the change would suit most riders. I just like grabbing throttle and getting that pull, man! The rev and compression aspect of "spirited" cornering is esential for me as well. Yet another reason why I will not change out.

It's just so cool when you pick your line, set her up, and just use the compression brake, smooth throttle and hang yer butt out there and attack the turns with very little brake. And then on exit grab that throttle again and scat out with authority. It's a rush!!

I will calm down eventually, but right now it's just FUN!! :D

[Freddy]

My wife has a 30 tooth sprocket on her spyder we find it uses less petrol but you have to change down gears more often because the sprocket decreases the reves by 500 rpm

Hey wtwing, is that the one you had here for sale or another one?

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18909

[wtwing15]

Hey wtwing, is that the one you had here for sale or another one?

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18909

Hi it is another one I got one for the RT but it dosnt go as well on the RT
It is still for Sale

[AMTJIM]

anything new?

[Raptor]

There was talk from Mel's awhile back about a 27 tooth gear which would increase low end performance. You may want to contact them and inquire about that.:D

Don't tease me like that... :roflblack:

[AMTJIM]

Worky worky?

[NancysToy]

The question I have concerns the charging system. Since the output is achieved at higher rpm has the change of sprocket affected or created any charging issues? :D
It is only a few percent change. It should not affect the charging that much.

[Freddy]

I share your concern. I'll be keeping a close eye on the torque of the bolt and will post any observations.

After 8000km I checked the torque on the bolt today - still as tight as the day I put the 30 tooth pulley on 8 months ago - thankfully.

[AMTJIM]

And hows the performance? Gas mileage, rpm difference, engine performance. How's the roll on performance, is there a need at 65mph for downshift to accelerate when you are 1 up? Tell us about it!

[spyryder]

And hows the performance? Gas mileage, rpm difference, engine performance. How's the roll on performance, is there a need at 65mph for downshift to accelerate when you are 1 up? Tell us about it!

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=181233&postcount=9

[Lamonster]

anything new?


Worky worky?
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=243229&postcount=23

[Freddy]

Like I said above, mine's still tight. If OEM sprockets are stripping out too, the only conclusion to be drawn is that the bolt isn't tight enough, allowing movement between the sprocket and spline. I don't see belt tension being a cause of this as it's a straight pull on the sprocket - different matter for bearings tho.

[Raptor]

There was talk from Mel's awhile back about a 27 tooth gear which would increase low end performance. You may want to contact them and inquire about that.:D

Just checked and see nothing about the 27 tooth yet. But after seeing Doc's 30 tooth, I think I'll pass!! :yikes:

[Freddy]

If it's happening to several OEM steel pulleys, the problem is not the material it's made of but how it's attached/tightened to the shaft.

[Freddy]

Mine has now done about 12,000km with the 30T sprocket. I'll be taking it on a 10,000km tour with my sons next month. So to satisfy the nagging concern about the durability of the aluminium sprocket I removed it for a look-see today. The retaining bolt was tight and there was no wear on the splines. I had applied moly grease when I installed it. So it was back on with a new OEM bolt torqued correctly. :thumbup:


http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab313/Freddy1333/30Tsprocket.jpg

I also fitted Honda exhaust gaskets (the original right one was deteriorating) and a new expansion tank.

[Firefly]

Mine has now done about 12,000km with the 30T sprocket. I'll be taking it on a 10,000km tour with my sons next month. So to satisfy the nagging concern about the durability of the aluminium sprocket I removed it for a look-see today. The retaining bolt was tight and there was no wear on the splines. I had applied moly grease when I installed it. So it was back on with a new OEM bolt torqued correctly. :thumbup:


http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab313/Freddy1333/30Tsprocket.jpg

I also fitted Honda exhaust gaskets (the original right one was deteriorating) and a new expansion tank.

I'd take your OEM sprocket on your trip just to be on the safe side. I know Doc burns through them -- but the Mels unit didn't last him long at all if memory serves....

[Freddy]

Yes, I must confess that the same thought had crossed my mind FF. However, I'm still of the view that the lack of proper torque on the retaining bolt is the culprit for these pulley failures - except in Doc's case cos he's special. :p

I'll give another update in due course.

[Spider Rider]

I went through 3 sproketts from mells and striped the centers out of each in less than 1000 miles each. I have had one made out of stanless and he has plans for a 31 tooth they cost around 600 but worth the price as Ihave 7000 miles with no trouble (LFWMFG.com) 209 465 0444 in Stockton Calif. talk to Leo tell him Jerry sent you.

[docdoru]

I went through 3 sproketts from mells and striped the centers out of each in less than 1000 miles each. I have had one made out of stanless and he has plans for a 31 tooth they cost around 600 but worth the price as Ihave 7000 miles with no trouble (LFWMFG.com) 209 465 0444 in Stockton Calif. talk to Leo tell him Jerry sent you.
Thanks for the info :thumbup:

[Freddy]

I went through 3 sproketts from mells and striped the centers out of each in less than 1000 miles each. I have had one made out of stanless and he has plans for a 31 tooth they cost around 600 but worth the price as Ihave 7000 miles with no trouble (LFWMFG.com) 209 465 0444 in Stockton Calif. talk to Leo tell him Jerry sent you.


What am I doing that your not - or vice a versa?
If the bolt is tight there should be no movement in the spline as it clamps the face of the sprochet to the mating face of the shaft

I can't see 31T being an overall benefit, apart from SS. The 30T sprocket is high enough ratio when starting up hill loaded. 31T and you'd be slipping the clutch far more than I'd be comfortable with. It's 'bad' enough with 2 extra teeth.

[docdoru]

I Have my 30 T Sprocket 5000 km its still ok.

For the Original Motor 29 T Sprocket are the right one.

If you have Tuned the Engine 30 T Sprocket will be the right one.
What type of engine tunning? :popcorn:

[Spider Rider]

For every tooth you add your rpm drops 200 rpm. milage is about 32mph

[woodchuck]

I went through 3 sproketts from mells and striped the centers out of each in less than 1000 miles each. I have had one made out of stanless and he has plans for a 31 tooth they cost around 600 but worth the price as Ihave 7000 miles with no trouble (LFWMFG.com) 209 465 0444 in Stockton Calif. talk to Leo tell him Jerry sent you.

I put on the 30 tooth sprocket 3000 miles ago and it is still like new. A lot has to do with your right wrist.
I don't baby it and I don't over work it. If the retaining bolt is tight, there is no reason to worry.

[WackyDan]

If they make one that can hold up, I'd get one. I guess I'll wait and see.

[Freddy]

I could be wrong but I don't think they are available any longer?

[Freddy]

After recently completing the 12,500km / 4 week tour with my sons a week ago, I had a chance today to inspect that pulley. The pics below show that the teeth are about 80% worn away, ruining the belt. So it's back on with the OEM pulley and new belt. What was saved in fuel economy was doubly lost in returning to standard. On a brighter note, you will see that the internal spline of the aluminium pulley is as new, as is the shaft - despite concerns expressed above. I believe that the extra torque (110ftlb) I applied to it ensured its reliability. The conclusion I draw is that the pulley retaining bolt should be higher than recommended (sorry Scotty but the engineering can be 'managed' to ensure reliability of the spline at least)

http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab313/Freddy1333/Pulley1.jpg
http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab313/Freddy1333/Pulley2.jpg

[AMTJIM]

Owww, too bad. Maybe a steel upgrade will be introduced.

[challman]

My concern about the aluminum sprocket is even though it's hard anodized (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-hard-anodizing.htm)that's still only a surface coating. There have been a few stock steel sprockets that have worn the splines out so I don't see this one lasting too long. Time will tell I guess.
Yes but at least the shaft wouldn't wear out. That is a Huge and expensive job to replace

[Freddy]

Yes but at least the shaft wouldn't wear out. That is a Huge and expensive job to replace

Torque to 110ftlb and no more spline issues -even on alu pulley. It is the inadequate clamping of the pulley to shaft, as stated in BRP bulletin, that is the problem - not what they're made of.

[SPY]

maybe this will help, german quality, better then stock, 327,- $ export price ...

http://www.batquad.de/shop/ATV-QUAD-SPYDER-PARTS/CAN-AM-SPYDER/

Wilfried

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

maybe this will help, german quality, better then stock, 327,- $ export price ...

http://www.batquad.de/shop/ATV-QUAD-SPYDER-PARTS/CAN-AM-SPYDER/

Wilfried

Well quite a few have been waiting for this.....I don't understand your' numbers though.....327,- $ export price...???????

[Firefly]

Why risk it... the other ones that were sold wore out quickly...... the gains are so minimal--- it's just not worth it....

[r1100rider]

Why risk it... the other ones that were sold wore out quickly...... the gains are so minimal--- it's just not worth it....The other ones were made of aluminum thats why they wore quickly the gains are not minimal i have a aluminum one that has 10,000 miles on it no problem and no wear with the new lower belt spec the lower rpm's is very nice at hy speeds, the gas savings is not much but wear and tear both to rider and machine makes it worth while a good steel one is just what we needed just remember everyone it won't work with an SE

[AMTJIM]

I was running dimension specs for a larger diameter rear that had similar or slightly slimmer width for the rear tire. Can't remember what the width was but a 275 would fit if I remember right and it was slightly thinner...wonder how that would do mpg/rpm wise with the 30 tooth. 4th would probably be the new 5th and 5th would be highway only.

[bone crusher]

The other ones were made of aluminum thats why they wore quickly the gains are not minimal i have a aluminum one that has 10,000 miles on it no problem and no wear with the new lower belt spec the lower rpm's is very nice at hy speeds, the gas savings is not much but wear and tear both to rider and machine makes it worth while a good steel one is just what we needed just remember everyone it won't work with an SE

How do you ascertain the wear to the machine? If the RPMs are a little lower, you cannot translate that to a longer engine life. The Rotax is a high-revving engine, last I checked..it has been conditioned for wear and tear for years. I certainly don't think that dropping the tach down by 200 is going to give you any noticeable engine life increase. For that matter, the obvious problems the extra sprockets have produced far outweigh any benefits.

I'd say long-term, you're more likely to have issues no matter what material they use. I'll go with the manufacturer on this one...if more sprockets are better, they would've gone this way...if we see them go that way in the future, we'll know...for now, I wouldn't play this game...no benefits, just headaches...

[NancysToy]

The other ones were made of aluminum thats why they wore quickly the gains are not minimal i have a aluminum one that has 10,000 miles on it no problem and no wear with the new lower belt spec the lower rpm's is very nice at hy speeds, the gas savings is not much but wear and tear both to rider and machine makes it worth while a good steel one is just what we needed just remember everyone it won't work with an SE
???? I guess it depends on what you mean by minimal. The gain is 7% on the gear ratio, resulting in only a 7% decrease in rpm. It won't result in a 7% increase in gas milage, but even if it did, that saves only 28 gallons of gas a year for a Spyder that does 12,000 miles. I personally don't see the benefit, but to each his own. :dontknow:

[r1100rider]

???? I guess it depends on what you mean by minimal. The gain is 7% on the gear ratio, resulting in only a 7% decrease in rpm. It won't result in a 7% increase in gas milage, but even if it did, that saves only 28 gallons of gas a year for a Spyder that does 12,000 miles. I personally don't see the benefit, but to each his own. :dontknow:It also means about 20,000 less times the engine spins per hour of use that adds up to a lot of wear and tear over 1000's of miles it's not all about mpg it's about a much more relaxed spyder and all i can say is those who haven't ridden one geared up a little have not felt the difference if you had spent a few thousand miles with more relaxed ride you would fully understand the benefit people are spending hundreds on fender lites and all kinds of other wraps and so on so why should everyone jump all over someone wanting to spend $400 for a less buzzy ride? Besides 28 gallons a year =$112 x 3 1/2 years pays for the sprocket

[SilverSurfer]

the Rotax 990 is a high rev engine, so reducing revs may not necessarily be the panacea for engine wear ... quite the opposite. It has already been shown that greater tooth-count on the sprocket doesn't increase miles per gallon. My riding style usually has my RT-S topping out at 70mph for cruise. It's also the speed limit around here, but I pass at 75-80. The OEM sprocket and everything else presents a calm, effortless ride. However, cruising at 80, as someone else earlier in the thread mentioned, would bring one's ride into the "buzzy" zone just given the nature of the machine. The greater tooth count may mitigate that, but I haven't read a remarkable enough comment that convinces me it's worth the expense or risk (of premature failure) for the mod.

Despite the above, I do hail the explorers and tinkerers. They are like our test pilots.

~ Surfer

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

the Rotax 990 is a high rev engine, so reducing revs may not necessarily be the panacea for engine wear ... quite the opposite. It has already been shown that greater tooth-count on the sprocket doesn't increase miles per gallon. My riding style usually has my RT-S topping out at 70mph for cruise. It's also the speed limit around here, but I pass at 75-80. The OEM sprocket and everything else presents a calm, effortless ride. However, cruising at 80, as someone else earlier in the thread mentioned, would bring one's ride into the "buzzy" zone just given the nature of the machine. The greater tooth count may mitigate that, but I haven't read a remarkable enough comment that convinces me it's worth the expense or risk (of premature failure) for the mod.

Despite the above, I do hail the explorers and tinkerers. They are like our test pilots.

~ Surfer

Just for arguments sake....if you have the 30 tooth gear you can always ride around in 4 th and keep your revs up when it suits you...:thumbup::thumbup: Mike

[r1100rider]

the Rotax 990 is a high rev engine, so reducing revs may not necessarily be the panacea for engine wear ... quite the opposite. It has already been shown that greater tooth-count on the sprocket doesn't increase miles per gallon. My riding style usually has my RT-S topping out at 70mph for cruise. It's also the speed limit around here, but I pass at 75-80. The OEM sprocket and everything else presents a calm, effortless ride. However, cruising at 80, as someone else earlier in the thread mentioned, would bring one's ride into the "buzzy" zone just given the nature of the machine. The greater tooth count may mitigate that, but I haven't read a remarkable enough comment that convinces me it's worth the expense or risk (of premature failure) for the mod.

Despite the above, I do hail the explorers and tinkerers. They are like our test pilots.

~ SurferThat must be why those diesel engines that turn 2000 Rome wear out so fast and the little high rev 4 cly engines go forever come on its only common sence that a motor has so many turns of life in it and every time it turns you use some of it up like blue nite said drive in 4 th gear all the time if you think it will make your motor last longer

[Firefly]

The other ones were made of aluminum thats why they wore quickly the gains are not minimal i have a aluminum one that has 10,000 miles on it no problem and no wear with the new lower belt spec the lower rpm's is very nice at hy speeds, the gas savings is not much but wear and tear both to rider and machine makes it worth while a good steel one is just what we needed just remember everyone it won't work with an SE

I guess you haven't seen the BRP tech release about how running too low of RPM's will cause damage........

My main concern is damage to the main shaft.... which I had on my Spyder.. as have many others have had and BRP covered many of them..... but what do you think BRP will do if you have such damage and they see you're running a 3rd party sprocket??

I guarantee they won't cover the damage under warranty... they will blame the 3rd party sprocket.

[r1100rider]

I guess you haven't seen the BRP tech release about how running too low of RPM's will cause damage........

My main concern is damage to the main shaft.... which I had on my Spyder.. as have many others have had and BRP covered many of them..... but what do you think BRP will do if you have such damage and they see you're running a 3rd party sprocket??

I guarantee they won't cover the damage under warranty... they will blame the 3rd party sprocket.That tec release has to due with the se clutches not being fully engaged under 3300 rpm using everyones logic on here im sure the motorcycle the spyder motor came from that had a 6 speed must be having all kinds of problems caused by those who shift it into 6th ,there would be way less wear if we all run at 7500 rpm in 3rd gear when we are on the freeway ,yes mods are mods and as far as brp coverage goes

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I guess you haven't seen the BRP tech release about how running too low of RPM's will cause damage........

My main concern is damage to the main shaft.... which I had on my Spyder.. as have many others have had and BRP covered many of them..... but what do you think BRP will do if you have such damage and they see you're running a 3rd party sprocket??

I guarantee they won't cover the damage under warranty... they will blame the 3rd party sprocket.

Wasn't the shaft damage linked to the belts being way to tight....and the low RPM'S issue relates to the the SE'S , correct.....Mike ?????

[r1100rider]

How do you ascertain the wear to the machine? If the RPMs are a little lower, you cannot translate that to a longer engine life. The Rotax is a high-revving engine, last I checked..it has been conditioned for wear and tear for years. I certainly don't think that dropping the tach down by 200 is going to give you any noticeable engine life increase. For that matter, the obvious problems the extra sprockets have produced far outweigh any benefits.

I'd say long-term, you're more likely to have issues no matter what material they use. I'll go with the manufacturer on this one...if more sprockets are better, they would've gone this way...if we see them go that way in the future, we'll know...for now, I wouldn't play this game...no benefits, just headaches...It s 400 rpm for the 30t 200 for the 29t I hear that those aprillia s with the rotax 990 6 speed are all wearing out because the riders are using 6 th gear face it every body they took away our 6 speed to give us a reverse and a steel sprocket built to the same spec s as the OEM won't hurt a thing and is a benicia that those who have tried can feel and those who haven't are only talking and guess at the possible feel

[Firefly]

That tec release has to due with the se clutches not being fully engaged under 3300 rpm using everyones logic on here im sure the motorcycle the spyder motor came from that had a 6 speed must be having all kinds of problems caused by those who shift it into 6th ,there would be way less wear if we all run at 7500 rpm in 3rd gear when we are on the freeway ,yes mods are mods and as far as brp coverage goes

Yup-- we got reverse in exchange for 6th gear from the Aprilla camp... but I'm not sure if the gearing was the same otherwise... and I'm doubting people used 6th on those bikes until they were well over 100 mph...... ;)

Too low of RPMS can cause damage.. regardless of whether it's the SE5 or SM5. I doubt 400 rpms will do much damage...just like it won't help much on MPG.

My main concern is spline wear...... as someone who had it.... you don't want it.. and if you get it... you sure as heck don't want to have to try and argue the point with BRP pertaining to using a 3rd party sprocket.

[r1100rider]

Yup-- we got reverse in exchange for 6th gear from the Aprilla camp... but I'm not sure if the gearing was the same otherwise... and I'm doubting people used 6th on those bikes until they were well over 100 mph...... ;)

Too low of RPMS can cause damage.. regardless of whether it's the SE5 or SM5. I doubt 400 rpms will do much damage...just like it won't help much on MPG.

My main concern is spline wear...... as someone who had it.... you don't want it.. and if you get it... you sure as heck don't want to have to try and argue the point with BRP pertaining to using a 3rd party sprocket.Just think right now millions of cars trucks motorcycles driving down the freeway to work at 65mph in 6th gear oh the horror of it if they only new that they would be causing less wear if they would just drop a couple of gears and run along at redline, you say you had spline problems[with the stock sprocket] the people who had those issues had them because the belt spec was to tight and or the sprocket bolts backed out BRP is calling for checking the bolts often the number of teeth on the sprocket had nothing to do with spline wear or loose bolts ,I solved this a long time ago by drilling the bolt head and safety wiring the bolt BRP should't have tried to reinvent the wheel on this one and used the same set up every chain drive bike has used for 50 years course splines with a nut held on by a washer folded over the ear of the nut can't come off and the larger splines won't wear

[Firefly]

Just think right now millions of cars trucks motorcycles driving down the freeway to work at 65mph in 6th gear oh the horror of it if they only new that they would be causing less wear if they would just drop a couple of gears and run along at redline, you say you had spline problems[with the stock sprocket] the people who had those issues had them because the belt spec was to tight and or the sprocket bolts backed out BRP is calling for checking the bolts often the number of teeth on the sprocket had nothing to do with spline wear or loose bolts ,I solved this a long time ago by drilling the bolt head and safety wiring the bolt BRP should't have tried to reinvent the wheel on this one and used the same set up every chain drive bike has used for 50 years course splines with a nut held on by a washer folded over the ear of the nut can't come off and the larger splines won't wear

You obviously don't get that not all vehicles, engines and transmissions are created the same and that 6th gear on one is not the same as 6th gear on another. A HD engine for example is very happy running at 2,000 -3,000 rpms while in 5th and 6th gears. The spyder obviously is NOT... but go ahead... run yours in 5th gear at 2,000 rpms-- just think of all the gas money you'll save..... :roflblack:. All vehicles will lug the engine at different gearing and rpm combinations.

Safety wiring the bolt isn't going to stop spline damage. The bolt doesn't have to come loose in order for damage to occur. No need to wire the bolt if it's properly installed and inspected at regular intervals. I only know of a few people that had the bolt come out. The rest of us with spline damage had it happen with the bolt 100% still locked into place.

And yes-- my damage continued to happen AFTER the new torque spec.... although I rode mine really hard and thus put additional stress on it. Was on my 3rd sprocket when I totaled the Spyder.

I will say that at least the Mel's ones were cheaply made and probably wore out easily before doing much shaft damage. If they were made of anything stronger than the shaft material--- the shaft will take the damage.

Regardless... the point is that BRP isn't going to cover spline damage on your main shaft if they know you're running a 3rd party sprocket... just like they won't cover engine damage if you're running a turbo.

[r1100rider]

You obviously don't get that not all vehicles, engines and transmissions are created the same and that 6th gear on one is not the same as 6th gear on another. A HD engine for example is very happy running at 2,000 -3,000 rpms while in 5th and 6th gears. The spyder obviously is NOT... but go ahead... run yours in 5th gear at 2,000 rpms-- just think of all the gas money you'll save..... :roflblack:. All vehicles will lug the engine at different gearing and rpm combinations.

Safety wiring the bolt isn't going to stop spline damage. The bolt doesn't have to come loose in order for damage to occur. No need to wire the bolt if it's properly installed and inspected at regular intervals. I only know of a few people that had the bolt come out. The rest of us with spline damage had it happen with the bolt 100% still locked into place.

And yes-- my damage continued to happen AFTER the new torque spec.... although I rode mine really hard and thus put additional stress on it. Was on my 3rd sprocket when I totaled the Spyder.

I will say that at least the Mel's ones were cheaply made and probably wore out easily before doing much shaft damage. If they were made of anything stronger than the shaft material--- the shaft will take the damage.

Regardless... the point is that BRP isn't going to cover spline damage on your main shaft if they know you're running a 3rd party sprocket... just like they won't cover engine damage if you're running a turbo.Never said anything about running my spyder at 2000 rpms its about running 4100 instead of 4500 at hy speeds and i never said it was about gas mpg its about wear and tear on motor and rider using your logic you would be better off with a 24 tooth front so that your motor would run more rpm and be easier on everything yes i understand a harley is different the point is motors wear as they turn every turn wears it more there are only so many rotations it is going to make in its life, i dont lug my motor on anything and a spyder is not being hurt running 4500 instead of 4900 some people understand that some don't, the point of BRP coverage has been made many times by many people about many different mods and i never claimed they should or will cover any 3rd party item as you well know with your 02 mod and juice box on your old RS

[Firefly]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Dumb BRP Engineers don't know nuthin'...... :roflblack:

:rolleyes:


:bbq:

[MidLifeCrisis]

There are still too many variables for engine wear. My concern for running the Rotax at lower RPM would be that it would cause more engine wear, rather than less. Higher gears are harder to turn and if an engine is designed for high RPMs and forced to operate outside its zone, it will increase engine wear.

When my RT is at 4500 RPMs its smooth and responsive, but responsiveness drops at 4200 and I have to give it more throttle to keep it happy. By going to a 30 tooth, I would have to stay in 4th, where I'm currently in 5th.

I like the thought process, but don't see it having the results you hope for. Another example... When my Spyder was running into 6 bars over the weekend, I would go into a lower gear, let the engine rev higher and have more leverage and it the temp gauge would drop to 5 bars immediately.

Sounds counter to the argument made, but in reality these engines are happiest at higher revs and struggle at lower revs. At some speeds, it takes more throttle to keep them going, so you may see lower mileage than with the stock setup.

I'm curious to see how this turns out over time.


Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Dumb BRP Engineers don't know nuthin'...... :roflblack:

:rolleyes:


:bbq: Well they did put the air valve on the left side of the rear tire ....didn't they ????.....Why ?????.....Mike....:yikes:

[MidLifeCrisis]

Well they did put the air valve on the left side of the rear tire ....didn't they ????.....Why ?????.....Mike....:yikes:

Agreed :confused:

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Dizneyman]

Well they did put the air valve on the left side of the rear tire ....didn't they ????.....Why ?????.....Mike....:yikes:

For those of us with left handed air gauges? :joke:.

[docdoru]

How about late 2008 when I start warning everybody about the front sprocket/main shaft issues? And this was about 2 years before installing the Turbo. One can remember bjt and dtlang from Grand Blanc, MI waiting 6 months each for a main shaft replace on their RS's while in warranty.

[r1100rider]

You obviously don't get that not all vehicles, engines and transmissions are created the same and that 6th gear on one is not the same as 6th gear on another. A HD engine for example is very happy running at 2,000 -3,000 rpms while in 5th and 6th gears. The spyder obviously is NOT... but go ahead... run yours in 5th gear at 2,000 rpms-- just think of all the gas money you'll save..... :roflblack:. All vehicles will lug the engine at different gearing and rpm combinations.

Safety wiring the bolt isn't going to stop spline damage. The bolt doesn't have to come loose in order for damage to occur. No need to wire the bolt if it's properly installed and inspected at regular intervals. I only know of a few people that had the bolt come out. The rest of us with spline damage had it happen with the bolt 100% still locked into place.

And yes-- my damage continued to happen AFTER the new torque spec.... although I rode mine really hard and thus put additional stress on it. Was on my 3rd sprocket when I totaled the Spyder.

I will say that at least the Mel's ones were cheaply made and probably wore out easily before doing much shaft damage. If they were made of anything stronger than the shaft material--- the shaft will take the damage.

Regardless... the point is that BRP isn't going to cover spline damage on your main shaft if they know you're running a 3rd party sprocket... just like they won't cover engine damage if you're running a turbo.Did it ever occur to you that since you were on your 3rd sprocket in 50 000 mi and many people have gone much past that with out ever having to change out theirs that maybe just maybe your advice all over the forum like"bob don't tell me you were in 5th at 55 "or "I don't even think about shifting into 5th until at least 80" might just be wrong ,BRP should have used the tried and true set up motorcycle's have used for 50 years and we would not be talking about this now and no one would have had any spline issues , I predict that when BRP ,Honda , or BMW builds a better Spyder and someone will it will have a shaft and more gearing spread lower and higher

[boborgera]

How about late 2008 when I start warning everybody about the front sprocket/main shaft issues? And this was about 2 years before installing the Turbo. One can remember bjt and dtlang from Grand Blanc, MI waiting 6 months each for a main shaft replace on their RS's while in warranty.

I lost my front sprocket and main shaft ''out'' of warranty, Month and a half in the shop,
And 18 hundred + dollars on my dime. :mad:

[Firefly]

Did it ever occur to you that since you were on your 3rd sprocket in 50 000 mi and many people have gone much past that with out ever having to change out theirs that maybe just maybe your advice all over the forum like"bob don't tell me you were in 5th at 55 "or "I don't even think about shifting into 5th until at least 80" might just be wrong ,BRP should have used the tried and true set up motorcycle's have used for 50 years and we would not be talking about this now and no one would have had any spline issues , I predict that when BRP ,Honda , or BMW builds a better Spyder and someone will it will have a shaft and more gearing spread lower and higher

Nope--- because I'm not wrong about this and we know the various causes for spline wear--- most of which have been addressed by BRP. My initial spline wear was due to the extremely high belt tension. Further wear was due to my hard riding style----- revving to 7,000 rpms and dumping the clutch during performance testing, etc.

As long as the spyder runs this rotax engine, it's always gonna want higher rpms. That is a fact that you just refuse to believe for whatever reason.

Those running in 5th gear at 40mph are indeed lugging the engine and causing undue stress on the engine and drivetrain- its very easy to feel it.

[Firefly]

There are still toi many variables for engine wear. My concern for running the Rotax at lower RPM would be that it would cause more engine wear, rather than less. Higher gears are harder to turn snd if an engine is designed for high RPMs and forced to operate outside its zone, it will increase engine wear.

When my RT is at 4500 RPMs its smooth and responsive, but responsiveness drops at 4200 and I have to give it motr throttle to keep it happy. By going to a 30 tooth, I would have to stay in 4th, where I'm currently in 5th.

I like the thought process, but don't see it having the results you hope for. Another example... When my Spyder was running into 6 bars over the weekend, I would go into a lower gear, let the engine rev higher and have more leverage and it the temp guage would drop to 5 bars immediately.

Sounds counter to the argument made, but in reality these engines are happiest at higher revs and struggle at lower revs. At some speeds, it takes more throttle to keep them going, so tou msy see lower mileage than with the stock setup.

I'm curious to see how this turns out over time.


Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Crazy talk!!! ;-). Lol

Don't you know that every engine only has so many rotations and then they just die? Doesn't matter if they are fast rotations or slow ones--- when it hits the magic number they just seize up and then you take them to live the rest of their lives on grampas farm....lololololololol.

[r1100rider]

Nope--- because I'm not wrong about this and we know the various causes for spline wear--- most of which have been addressed by BRP. My initial spline wear was due to the extremely high belt tension. Further wear was due to my hard riding style----- revving to 7,000 rpms and dumping the clutch during performance testing, etc.

As long as the spyder runs this rotax engine, it's always gonna want higher rpms. That is a fact that you just refuse to believe for whatever reason.

Those running in 5th gear at 40mph are indeed lugging the engine and causing undue stress on the engine and drivetrain- its very easy to feel it.Of course you pick and choose what ever you want to think I have said which I never said you should be in 5th at 40 your statement about how it's easy to feel when the motor is lugging is exactly my point and a few hundred rpm at freeway speeds causes no complaints from the rotax at all thanks for making than point you refuse to believe I guess only those that have felt it understand the benefit

[r1100rider]

Nope--- because I'm not wrong about this and we know the various causes for spline wear--- most of which have been addressed by BRP. My initial spline wear was due to the extremely high belt tension. Further wear was due to my hard riding style----- revving to 7,000 rpms and dumping the clutch during performance testing, etc.

As long as the spyder runs this rotax engine, it's always gonna want higher rpms. That is a fact that you just refuse to believe for whatever reason.

Those running in 5th gear at 40mph are indeed lugging the engine and causing undue stress on the engine and drivetrain- its very easy to feel it.And thank for confirming what I said 4 or 5 times that the spline wear was a belt spec issue not cause by tooth count

[Firefly]

And thank for confirming what I said 4 or 5 times that the spline wear was a belt spec issue not cause by tooth count

I never said or implied spline wear could be caused by the tooth count. What I clearly said is that BRP will most likely NOT cover spline damage to the main shaft when you are using an aftermarket sprocket---- how many teeth it has on it doesn't matter.

When I was referring to running it 5th gear at 40 mph I was directly referring to BOB... as he used to do this... actually 37mph I believe he said... but I rounded up giving him the benefit...;)


Good luck..... I'd keep a close eye on those splines. Mine surprisingly kept working pretty well as long as I put a new sprocket on...but they were sharpened to a point by the time my 3rd sprocket went on. I had planned on having it torn down and fixed (under warranty) this winter before my accident.

I recommend marking the shaft and sprocket with a sharpie...and the bolt... easy visual inspection will show movement. With mine you could roll the bike forward and back while in gear and see the movement. New sprocket... movement gone.

Some of the earliest reports of spline damage (BJT & Dltang) were given a reason of 'bad metal' during manufacturing. It was after this that BRP lowered the belt tension a few times.. and increased the torque specs on the bolt... but I'm not sure if they ever directly attributed these changes to spline wear.... but we all assumed this would contribute. A more direct problem from the high belt tension was blowing through rear bearings....