Got Cupping!

[BajaRon]

I've been fine for 15k but noticed cupping on the right tire today. Not real bad but still noticable. It is cupping on the tread to the left of center (sitting on bike). I am hoping it is balance issues and not linkage or shock related.

Anyone else have a cupping problem?

[Firefly]

So what cup size are they??:roflblack:

[bruceofthebronx]

Like the way you think Firefly.

[BajaRon]

So what cup size are they??:roflblack:

I don't want to upset Lamont. I'm already on thin ice with some previous comments. He will ban ANYONE! Even his good buddy of all these years!

So I have to be on my best behavior!

Just a bunch of little cups all in a row. If I keep riding and don't do anything they will probably get bigger. I will probably put some Ride-On Goo in there and see if that helps.

Once you get cups I'm not sure if they will go away or not.

I put Ride-On in my rear tire but never got around to putting it in the fronts.

[WaltH]

I had the same thing on my OEM tires at about 30,000 miles. I replaced both front tires with car tires at 34,000 miles. What causes it on a Spyder is a mystery. It doesn't go away. Why the right side tire? Why the inside of the tire? I have about 20,000 miles on the car tires and they look like new. I am waiting to see what the car tires look like at 30,000 miles.

[krb1945]

Cupping never goes away once you have it. Last year I had a two wheeler with cupping on the front. The GW mechanic said it was because there was a shock absorber in only one fork tube. The 1800s had the shock on one side only.

Now I don't know if he was being straight or just blowing smoke... but after installing traxxion shocks on both forks I've had no additional problems with cupping. I would suspect a shock going on a permanent vacation. Ken krb1945

[NancysToy]

Cupping never goes away once you have it. Last year I had a two wheeler with cupping on the front. The GW mechanic said it was because there was a shock absorber in only one fork tube. The 1800s had the shock on one side only.

Now I don't know if he was being straight or just blowing smoke... but after installing traxxion shocks on both forks I've had no additional problems with cupping. I would suspect a shock going on a permanent vacation. Ken krb1945
Most information I have been able to find indicates that cupping of the front tire on a motorcycle is normal, if both sides are cupped equally. Apparently it is supposed to be a function of soft, sticky compounds on the sides for better cornering, and tougher rubber at the center for better wear. Some say the width and type of tire belt plays a role, too, as to where the cupping occurs. Riding habits influence the severity and speed of cupping. Insufficient shock dampening is popularly said to be a cause, but I can find no authoritative verification of that forum theory. I only bother to change out a front because of cupping when it becomes pronounced enough to "grab" and cause handling issues.

On a car, cupping is limited to one side of the tire (or tires), and is almost always caused by worn suspension components. On the Spyder, it should be the same. I'd check for worn ball joints, tie-rod ends, Heim joints, shock bushings, and/or wheel bearings.

[Eddie]

Now Our original tires are directionals I believe. So No we should not rotate them BUT' AFTER we replace them using car tires then why not?? On a car we rotate the tires every 5000 miles to prevent cupping. Now of coarse we can't rotate the rear but' why not side to side on the front? I also notice the tie rods and other steering components that would require alignment.IDK its just a thought

[BajaRon]

Most information I have been able to find indicates that cupping of the front tire on a motorcycle is normal, if both sides are cupped equally. Apparently it is supposed to be a function of soft, sticky compounds on the sides for better cornering, and tougher rubber at the center for better wear. Some say the width and type of tire belt plays a role, too, as to where the cupping occurs. Riding habits influence the severity and speed of cupping. Insufficient shock dampening is popularly said to be a cause, but I can find no authoritative verification of that forum theory. I only bother to change out a front because of cupping when it becomes pronounced enough to "grab" and cause handling issues.

On a car, cupping is limited to one side of the tire (or tires), and is almost always caused by worn suspension components. On the Spyder, it should be the same. I'd check for worn ball joints, tie-rod ends, Heim joints, shock bushings, and/or wheel bearings.

All of my motorcycle front tires cupped on the side and I do think it is normal to a point.

As for my Spyder I know it is wishful thinking that it would be balance. Though it can be balance it is more likely to be those components you mention. My shock seems to be fine as well as the bushings. I have not yet checked the other items but the cupping really bothers me and I will see if I can find a culprit.

The problem occurs when it is minor wear in 2 or more components combining to cause the problem with no 1 component worn enough to be evidently the cause.

[krb1945]

I forgot to put something in my previous post about my 1800 cupping. It was cupping the right side when viewed from the driver seat. This is the fork with the damper. It would cup to the point by 2000 miles that it would make a roaring sound going down the road. I made two changes at the same time so I can't say for certain which one solved the problem. My changes were as stated above... the traxxion system on the front... plus a new bridge stone. I neglected to mention the new tire at the same time. Now I do know the handling improved dramatically with the new suspension. It no longer had a spongy feel. Additionally this is the only wing that I have ever had to improve the suspension on. All the rest were good from the factory.

Now being an "older bird" I no longer participate in curvy road performance riding. That's not saying I don't twist the throttle on the straight stretches... "she who must be obeyed" calls me on the B to B intercom telling me to slow down. I tell her I need to get the soot out of the cylinders for a mile or so. /Ken krb1945

[ThreeWheels]

My dealer told me something interesting just a few days ago.

It seems that BRP is now recommending that the front tires are rotated at around 8,000 miles. This adds about 3000 miles to the tire life.

Because the tires are directional, you can't simply swap the wheels, the tires need to be dismounted, swapped and then remounted.

I did a quick calculation, and if you rotate the tires, it will save about $0.0025 per mile. or approximately $25 over the life of the tire. Not a whole lot of money. For me, if I happen to have the bike in the shop for something else as I'll probably have it done, but it's not worth a trip to the dealer just for this because the time lost riding is more valuable to me.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[NancysToy]

My dealer told me something interesting just a few days ago.

It seems that BRP is now recommending that the front tires are rotated at around 8,000 miles. This adds about 3000 miles to the tire life.

Because the tires are directional, you can't simply swap the wheels, the tires need to be dismounted, swapped and then remounted.

I did a quick calculation, and if you rotate the tires, it will save about $0.0025 per mile. or approximately $25 over the life of the tire. Not a whole lot of money. For me, if I happen to have the bike in the shop for something else as I'll probably have it done, but it's not worth a trip to the dealer just for this because the time lost riding is more valuable to me.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
You may want to rethink this. Spyder tires are directional. The only way to rotate them is to remove them from the rims. The cost would be more than the savings, IMO. I saw BRP's recommendation, and they call for removal from the rims, if you look closely at the procedure diagram.

[Eddie]

You may want to rethink this. Spyder tires are directional. The only way to rotate them is to remove them from the rims. The cost would be more than the savings, IMO. I saw BRP's recommendation, and they call for removal from the rims, if you look closely at the procedure diagram.

Thats why I say when they go bad. Replace them with car tires. No I don't want to hear well are them car tires rated for that kind of speed. Don't worry about that. The Spyder is no faster than most cars. LOL Put the car tire on and rotate along with proper alignment.They should last a good long time. Oh by the way, Anyone know what the alignment spec's are?? :D

[Tom in NM]

. . . . Ron, are you sure they are YOUR tires? Have you noticed Lamont carrying a tire-iron lately? :D

Tom

[MackeyMouse]

I have only gotten 4000 plus miles on my Spyder and noticed that the front tires are wearing rather noticably on the inside. Have in the works to get em swaped and an alignment done. Certainly hope that works!!! If not guess I'll get car tires. They should be just as good as the OEM's if not better. Sheeeesss is there a posibility of cupping etc of the rear tire??? I don't know if my soc sec could pay for the rear!!! And where do you get THAT replacement?:dontknow:

[docdoru]

I did change my original front tires @ 60k Miles. :doorag:
Not bad for a tire life without rotation.

[ameobe]

Another thought for the ones not using Rideon.

Even if the tires were to be remounted on the same rim, for opposite side, they would have to rebalanced.
correct?

Look at Doc, runn'em till they fall off.:thumbup:
(not literally of coarse)

[WaltH]

Thats why I say when they go bad. Replace them with car tires. No I don't want to hear well are them car tires rated for that kind of speed. Don't worry about that. The Spyder is no faster than most cars. LOL Put the car tire on and rotate along with proper alignment.They should last a good long time. Oh by the way, Anyone know what the alignment spec's are?? :D

The alignment spec's are zero in each case, however only the toe is adjustable. Caster and camber are not adjustable.

All tires are speed rated. Just buy the rating you want, but don't go below the rating of the OEM tire.

[spyderwoman]

I think mine has the same issue. I took mine to get a new back tire put on and my dealer said my front tires looked good but was wearing some on the inside. They rotated them for me but now my bike handles terrible! He said I would have some vibration until the tires wore down some in their new position...but I did not realize it would be that bad...it only does it really noticeable at speeds 55-66....then it goes back smooth until i hit 74 +. It was so bad on interstate yesterday the people behind me said they could see me fighting it in the curves going up the mountain to Asheville. It was not a good feeling. Should I keep riding to see if it quits or take it back to see if something else is going on? btw I have 17,700 miles.

[krb1945]

If you set the front shocks to a firmer setting will that keep the tire flatter on the road? And will this reduce the inside wear some.

I ask this because I keep the front at 5 and the rear at 4 with 20 psi front and 28 rear and I see no wear on the front inside. I use these settings because even win I breathe helium I still weight 200. /Ken krb1945

[Eddie]

The alignment spec's are zero in each case, however only the toe is adjustable. Caster and camber are not adjustable.

All tires are speed rated. Just buy the rating you want, but don't go below the rating of the OEM tire.
I never looked real hard to see if there was any caster or camber to adjust. They must just bolt on no adjustment. So just set the tow and go then HMM :doorag: Bet the shocks gonna mess with the camber some. Depending on what setting you have them on.

[spyryder]

I Bet the shocks gonna mess with the camber some. Depending on what setting you have them on.
Control arms are equal length, so camber won't be affected even with different ride heights.;)

[NancysToy]

Control arms are equal length, so camber won't be affected even with different ride heights.;)
:agree:

[BajaRon]

I think mine has the same issue. I took mine to get a new back tire put on and my dealer said my front tires looked good but was wearing some on the inside. They rotated them for me but now my bike handles terrible! He said I would have some vibration until the tires wore down some in their new position...but I did not realize it would be that bad...it only does it really noticeable at speeds 55-66....then it goes back smooth until i hit 74 +. It was so bad on interstate yesterday the people behind me said they could see me fighting it in the curves going up the mountain to Asheville. It was not a good feeling. Should I keep riding to see if it quits or take it back to see if something else is going on? btw I have 17,700 miles.

First, it depends on what kind of wear you're getting. If it is just wear without cupping then you probably have a toe issue. Just rotating tires will not fix this.

If they did not dismount and re-mount the tires to spin the correct direction you added to your woes (which is what it sounds like happened). If this is the case you need to put the wheels back where they came from. Those are directional tires and you don't want to run them backwards.

In any case you need to fix the problem causing the abnormal tire wear and get the tires to where you're not having so much problem driving them. It may require new tires but that would be a waste if you don't fix the original issue.

[BajaRon]

If you set the front shocks to a firmer setting will that keep the tire flatter on the road? And will this reduce the inside wear some.

I ask this because I keep the front at 5 and the rear at 4 with 20 psi front and 28 rear and I see no wear on the front inside. I use these settings because even win I breathe helium I still weight 200. /Ken krb1945

Spring setting only affects ride height (load carry capacity) and to some degree, body lean when cornering (plus a stiffer ride all things being equal).

They will not affect tire footprint nor tire wear patterns. Dampening, which is not adjustable, can affect tire wear but this will be a cupping effect not one side or the other wearing more than the rest of the tire.

Toe is adjustable and can cause inside or outside tire wear depending on toe-in or toe-out.

Caster/Camber are not adjustable so though they can affect tire wear there isn't much you can do about this aspect.