Excessive oil pressure, oil line blow.

[jedd]

Hi just a FYI coming home from Cuba MO. my oil line at the bottom of oil cooler,to the lower inlet>outlet of motor blew off at motor. I shut down immediately,got a tow, assessed problem found line off, thought factory clamp was too loose. So I got a hose clamp from a bait shop installed line filled with oil test drove, seemed fine, went on my way home. 80 miles down the road line blew off again this time with a loud "POP". Many metal shavings in oil so I had a ride come get me and trailer-ed it home. Took to dealer Monday they tested and today were tearing out engine to slit apart cause yet to be determined, but way too much oil pressure and some vibes in trans. area, will update as progress moves forward. The only precursor to the failure was very slight vibes at a no load coast or cruise above 30mph but below 60mph. 14,800 miles on unit 2008 SM5 not a PE.

Jim:dontknow:

[xpeschon]

Sorry to hear about that, PLEASE keep us update as I know you will,, will be interesting in the finding.. Wow..

Joe
(X)

[Lamonster]

Did they check the strainer?
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10718

I'm real sorry to hear about this Bro. Let us know what they find out.

[jedd]

Did they check the strainer?
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10718

I'm real sorry to hear about this Bro. Let us know what they find out.
Strainer was cleaned at 10,500 miles but I'm sure its plugged now. Thanks Bro will update as I get more info, no worries here though 1st break down for me its big but repairable.

Jim:thumbup:

[Firefly]

Bummer man-- hope things aren't too bad. I personally wouldn't sweat using a worm-gear on those hoses.. many of us have done so without any problems.

[SpyderWolf]

Sorry to hear you will be unable to ryde for a while, but am also wanting to tag along to see what they find as the cause. Best of luck with them getting it sorted out quickly for you.

[burg650]

Same thing happen to a friend with his SM5 after only 6500 miles, it turned out to the bearings in the engine they had to re-build the whole engine . Good luck and getting parts for it, his stayed at the dealer for 5 months and it was not till many calls to BRP before the parts miraculously showed up to finish job.

[jedd]

Same thing happen to a friend with his SM5 after only 6500 miles, it turned out to the bearings in the engine they had to re-build the whole engine . Good luck and getting parts for it, his stayed at the dealer for 5 months and it was not till many calls to BRP before the parts miraculously showed up to finish job.
I hope I won't have to be "on" anyone as of now progress is moving still no update maybe tonight I'll have a answer as to the cause of failure.

Jim:thumbup:

[jedd]

OK here's the news as given to me. Output shaft bearing failed (shaft front drive pulley bolts to) bearing pieces went through trans, many bearings and gears in trans will be replaced. After seeing SethO's pulley bolt failure then my bearing failure first hand, my conclusion is this is a suspect problem area in the design. IMHO the belt tension threads or posts in this forum should be paid close attention to. As to checking torque on pulley bolt I would suggest 1 step further as to remove bolt ,belt and pulley and closely inspect splines for abnormal wear. if any end play is felt replace pulley and hopefully not output shaft also. Any wear in this area I feel would cause a harmonic situation and lead to bearing and other drive line wear. I may even consider putting a film of Loctite 518 anaerobic gasket material on splines between pulley and output shaft, this has been done on snowmobile clutch splines in the past and greatly reduced wear and failure, this would not "glue" pulley on just leave a film behind to save splines and could be re-done at oil changes, these are my early opinions and may change but the 518 solution may help if splines are still tight. Belt tension may be too much load so reduce tension as the earlier bulletin suggested.Again I stress this may be very isolated many Spyders with more miles than mine with no problems, these are just the things I'll be watching myself.

FYI
Jim:thumbup:

Also thanks for the nice thoughts for the speedy recovery of my :spyder2:
I miss her:bowdown:

[krb1945]

be caused by to much tension on the drive belt. Now having asked this question I want all to know that I did not get the shop manual out and look at the diagrams. /Ken

[retired1]

Jim;
Thanks for the PM. Just read your post, that really sucks! Hope they get your :f_spider:back to you soon!

[jedd]

be caused by to much tension on the drive belt. Now having asked this question I want all to know that I did not get the shop manual out and look at the diagrams. /Ken
That is my opinion Ken many pounds of pull with our long belt, however it begs the ? why is this not a epidemic, as stated earlier many more:spyder:with many more miles. My gut feeling is this is isolated and I had a poor quality bearing :pray:

Jim:thumbup:

[Firefly]

That is my opinion Ken many pounds of pull with our long belt, however it begs the ? why is this not a epidemic, as stated earlier many more:spyder:with many more miles. My gut feeling is this is isolated and I had a poor quality bearing :pray:

Jim:thumbup:

Thanks for sharing what happened. Many can learn from this and hopefully take precautions to avoid such problems. Time to lower that belt pressure!

[SpyderWolf]

Thanks for sharing the cause with us. Looks like it is time for me to call the dealer and take the 2 hour ryde to get our belt tension checked as well. I certainly hope they don't keep your Spyder torn apart for months fixing this as well.

Best of luck with a timely repair.

[jedd]

Thanks for sharing the cause with us. Looks like it is time for me to call the dealer and take the 2 hour ryde to get our belt tension checked as well. I certainly hope they don't keep your Spyder torn apart for months fixing this as well.

Best of luck with a timely repair.Getting belt tension adjusted would be a good idea, make sure and have drive pulley inspected and torqued also while you're there.

Jim:thumbup:

[SpyderWolf]

Getting belt tension adjusted would be a good idea, make sure and have drive pulley inspected and torqued also while you're there.

Jim:thumbup:

Thanks! I will be asking them about both of the service bulletins to be sure they are aware of them before we make the trip to see them.

[docdoru]

That is my opinion Ken many pounds of pull with our long belt, however it begs the ? why is this not a epidemic, as stated earlier many more:spyder:with many more miles. My gut feeling is this is isolated and I had a poor quality bearing :pray: Jim:thumbup:
I'm ryding the 3rd front sprocket, second hub and 4th pair of rear bearings at 78K miles....is not epidemic, but pandemic! :popcorn:

[NancysToy]

OK here's the news as given to me. Output shaft bearing failed (shaft front drive pulley bolts to) bearing pieces went through trans, many bearings and gears in trans will be replaced. After seeing SethO's pulley bolt failure then my bearing failure first hand, my conclusion is this is a suspect problem area in the design. IMHO the belt tension threads or posts in this forum should be paid close attention to. As to checking torque on pulley bolt I would suggest 1 step further as to remove bolt ,belt and pulley and closely inspect splines for abnormal wear. if any end play is felt replace pulley and hopefully not output shaft also. Any wear in this area I feel would cause a harmonic situation and lead to bearing and other drive line wear. I may even consider putting a film of Loctite 518 anaerobic gasket material on splines between pulley and output shaft, this has been done on snowmobile clutch splines in the past and greatly reduced wear and failure, this would not "glue" pulley on just leave a film behind to save splines and could be re-done at oil changes, these are my early opinions and may change but the 518 solution may help if splines are still tight. Belt tension may be too much load so reduce tension as the earlier bulletin suggested.Again I stress this may be very isolated many Spyders with more miles than mine with no problems, these are just the things I'll be watching myself.

FYI
Jim:thumbup:

Also thanks for the nice thoughts for the speedy recovery of my :spyder2:
I miss her:bowdown:
I have no doubt that they found this issue, although there is no good way to tell what failed first, except to trust in the laws of probability. That says the output shaft bearing was the first to go. What worries me, is that while the catastrophic engine and transmission damage you described could result, this problem is unlikely to cause you to blow off the oil line. It could happen, if some chunks completely blocked the oil pressure relief valve (if any), but pieces usually block these things open, not closed, resulting in low oil pressure rather than high. The other long shots would be for the oil cooler or oil return line to have become completely blocked. I hope your dealer gets into this a lot further before he settles on a cause, or completes his damage assessment. There are still some unanswered questions in my mind. I hope they provide a whole new engine for you...and remove and clean the oil cooler, tank, and all oil lines. These types of failures can come back to haunt you.

[widowmaker2011]

Thanks for sharing the cause with us. Looks like it is time for me to call the dealer and take the 2 hour ryde to get our belt tension checked as well. I certainly hope they don't keep your Spyder torn apart for months fixing this as well.

Best of luck with a timely repair.

I ask again , WHY IS THIS NOT A RECALL OR AT LEAST A SERVICE CAMPAIGN OWNER NOTIFICATION?????? Why must a Spyder owner need to go into a dealer to see or even know about this belt tension service bulletin??????????? (or be on Spyderlovers.com). This is pure insanity that BRP does not just do a mailing and have everyone get their belts retensioned to the lower setting. This company continues to show reasons why NOT to have faith in them.

:dontknow:

[3tracs]

I'm real sorry to hear about your Spyder. Hopefully she'll be back on the road very soon. Keep us posted!

Harry

[jedd]

I have no doubt that they found this issue, although there is no good way to tell what failed first, except to trust in the laws of probability. That says the output shaft bearing was the first to go. What worries me, is that while the catastrophic engine and transmission damage you described could result, this problem is unlikely to cause you to blow off the oil line. It could happen, if some chunks completely blocked the oil pressure relief valve (if any), but pieces usually block these things open, not closed, resulting in low oil pressure rather than high. The other long shots would be for the oil cooler or oil return line to have become completely blocked. I hope your dealer gets into this a lot further before he settles on a cause, or completes his damage assessment. There are still some unanswered questions in my mind. I hope they provide a whole new engine for you...and remove and clean the oil cooler, tank, and all oil lines. These types of failures can come back to haunt you.
Fully understand and appreciate your concerns, for me to be 100% positive the output shaft bearing was 1st to fail is not that important,the evidence leans to that conclusion so I'll stick with it. Agree fully on all oiling components need extensive cleaning,inspection,or replacement. Only question I have is if oil strainer is plugged or severely restricted,would this not cause,or contribute to high oil pressure. Just asking cause this is my assumption so please correct me if I'm incorrect.

Thanks
Jim:thumbup:

[SpyderWolf]

I ask again , WHY IS THIS NOT A RECALL OR AT LEAST A SERVICE CAMPAIGN OWNER NOTIFICATION?????? Why must a Spyder owner need to go into a dealer to see or even know about this belt tension service bulletin??????????? (or be on Spyderlovers.com). This is pure insanity that BRP does not just do a mailing and have everyone get their belts retensioned to the lower setting. This company continues to show reasons why NOT to have faith in them.

:dontknow:

Some SpyderLovers have reported that they actually have good dealers that call them and tell them when a new service bulletin comes out from BRP. They can then decide when they want to bring the Spyder in. Others have reported their dealer may not check the BRP updates web site very often, and have no idea when a new bulletin comes out. Then there are those of us whose primary dealer has closed, and when we call another dealership with questions I get asked "Where did you buy it from?". While BRP could send mailings to every owners house, it isn't too unreasonable to expect their dealer network to be informed and to take care of their customers as well. :(

[NancysToy]

Fully understand and appreciate your concerns, for me to be 100% positive the output shaft bearing was 1st to fail is not that important,the evidence leans to that conclusion so I'll stick with it. Agree fully on all oiling components need extensive cleaning,inspection,or replacement. Only question I have is if oil strainer is plugged or severely restricted,would this not cause,or contribute to high oil pressure. Just asking cause this is my assumption so please correct me if I'm incorrect.

Thanks
Jim:thumbup:
Oil strainer is on the oil pump intake, so a plugged strainer would starve the engine for oil, not cause high pressure.

[jedd]

Oil strainer is on the oil pump intake, so a plugged strainer would starve the engine for oil, not cause high pressure.
Thanks that what I was wondering didn't know the direction of flow.

[NancysToy]

Thanks that what I was wondering didn't know the direction of flow.
Out of the bottom of the oil tank, return at the top. Gravity wouldn't have it any other way! :D

[jedd]

Out of the bottom of the oil tank, return at the top. Gravity wouldn't have it any other way! :D
Thanks again:doorag:
Just noticed in 2008-2009 GS service manual pg#227
NOTE:Front sprocket, rear sprocket and drive belt should be replaced altogether.

Again any miss match of drive line is a potential problem, wonder if everyone that has replaced front sprocket has replaced all. If front sprocket gives out under warranty, by this note they should replace all, if 1 of 3 fails?

[NancysToy]

Thanks again:doorag:
Just noticed in 2008-2009 GS service manual pg#227
NOTE:Front sprocket, rear sprocket and drive belt should be replaced altogether.

Again any miss match of drive line is a potential problem, wonder if everyone that has replaced front sprocket has replaced all. If front sprocket gives out under warranty, by this note they should replace all, if 1 of 3 fails?
I hadn't spotted that ringer! :yikes: Seems strange, since I know of no other belt drive system that requires this. They don't seem to be matched from the factory, and certainly can't be lapped or tuned, so it makes little sense. I wouldn't worry about it myself, unless you notice a serious vibration after any replacement.

[docdoru]

Thanks again:doorag:
Just noticed in 2008-2009 GS service manual pg#227
NOTE:Front sprocket, rear sprocket and drive belt should be replaced altogether.
And if in warranty it's going to be covered? :popcorn:

[SethO]

waiting to hear back on my sprocket issue, should be hearing on tuesday.

I can't believe both jim and i had the same issue but different results.

The dealer I am working with was still waiting for BRP to approve the warranty on my sprocket.

[jedd]

waiting to hear back on my sprocket issue, should be hearing on tuesday.

I can't believe both jim and i had the same issue but different results.

The dealer I am working with was still waiting for BRP to approve the warranty on my sprocket.
I find that curious BRP has service reps. manning phones for dealers, when I was in the trade answers you always get, parts a different story. Hope they are not putting you off. I figured you would have it back by now, are they pulling the output shaft out?

Jim:thumbup:

[jedd]

And if in warranty it's going to be covered? :popcorn:
Interesting isn't it Doc??:dontknow::agree::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[SethO]

I find that curious BRP has service reps. manning phones for dealers, when I was in the trade answers you always get, parts a different story. Hope they are not putting you off. I figured you would have it back by now, are they pulling the output shaft out?

Jim:thumbup:



they had the parts ordered, I talked to the owner of the place and we got it mostly figured out, I am not sure if they are pulling the main shaft. I do finde it wierd that they can not say "is it under warranty?" Done. How could it more than that.

That is with this warranty you speak of.

[jedd]

they had the parts ordered, I talked to the owner of the place and we got it mostly figured out, I am not sure if they are pulling the main shaft. I do finde it wierd that they can not say "is it under warranty?" Done. How could it more than that.

That is with this warranty you speak of.
Hope you get it soon, still waiting for more parts availability on mine

Jim:thumbup:

[jedd]

Just put kids to bed picked up any overlooked toys closed up garages, normally would go for a ride now, but my Spyder is still not back where she belongs. First full week without her and it sucks, hope it won't be too much longer.
Really feel for anyone else that has had major breakdowns it really SUCKS !

Jim:thumbup:

[Firefly]

Just put kids to bed picked up any overlooked toys closed up garages, normally would go for a ride now, but my Spyder is still not back where she belongs. First full week without her and it sucks, hope it won't be too much longer.
Really feel for anyone else that has had major breakdowns it really SUCKS !

Jim:thumbup:


Bummer man.. ... hope you get back on the road soon! Keep us posted.

[SethO]

Just put kids to bed picked up any overlooked toys closed up garages, normally would go for a ride now, but my Spyder is still not back where she belongs. First full week without her and it sucks, hope it won't be too much longer.
Really feel for anyone else that has had major breakdowns it really SUCKS !

Jim:thumbup:



Don't I know it , everyone at work asking me when I am getting my spyder back.Been gaming but it sucks when it is nice out.

[SpyderWolf]

I also hope both of you get your Spyders back soon. I would hate to have to wait like that, and am hoping I never do.

[jedd]

OK found what my delay is in need of a bearing part #420832144 it is on back order till 5/7/10, which means dealer would be lucky to have it 5/12/10. With assembly time the earliest I would get her back would be 5/17/10. I feel this is a bit ridiculous it is just a bearing if anyone has any idea how to find the bearing specs I could easily obtain a bearing weds. or thurs. If anyone can translate BRP part # to a bearing size or even better bearing number (ie;6205 2rs) any help appreciated

[jedd]

Well, as I stated in a earlier thread the bearing has been received. However 1 gear that came in is wrong (correct part# wrong part in bag) and tech noticed a scuff or embedded metal fragment in a piston, so parts have been re-ordered over night as of Friday. Both pistons are being replaced now also. I'm maintaining patience and giving dealer (Tech) benefit of doubt for now..:dontknow::sour:
Jim:shocked:

[SethO]

****ty buddy, always something, I got a small oil leak and I am trying to figure out where its at and HOPEFULLY I can fix it up here, the first day riding on saturday was a slight brake problem because they did not know how to reinstall the ISCI brake but I got that fixed.

I would check it out a little at a time with that much work, i have heard they are great there but sometimes something gets forgotten ya know, I am sure it will be done this week bud.