Fouling Spark Plugs

[glynnk]

Okay, some mechanically inclined members help me out. On another thread dealing with a seperate issue, it was mentioned by several folks that you shouldn't start your Spyder up without intending to ride it; that somehow if it runs for a short period of time you foul the spark plugs. In some cases, dealers confirmed that principle. The two Spyder dealers I've dealt with have never mentioned this at all. I'm no "wrench" by any means, but is this true?

Glynnk

[boborgera]

Okay, some mechanically inclined members help me out. On another thread dealing with a seperate issue, it was mentioned by several folks that you shouldn't start your Spyder up without intending to ride it; that somehow if it runs for a short period of time you foul the spark plugs. In some cases, dealers confirmed that principle. The two Spyder dealers I've dealt with have never mentioned this at all. I'm no "wrench" by any means, but is this true?

Glynnk

:hun:
Read that post too, don't know what there talking about?
I had bikes 35 years or more, Have 11 thousand miles on my Spyder run it for short periods quite often never fouled a plug.

[Firefly]

From what I saw that was RT related only. I can tell you that I've started my Spyder hundreds of times without 'riding it' and have never fouled a plug.

It really sounds like this is unique to the RT.

[j45p3r]

Yep, this is RT only, and I would bet it will be fixed with a software update at some point.

[groundeffect]

Okay, some mechanically inclined members help me out. On another thread dealing with a seperate issue, it was mentioned by several folks that you shouldn't start your Spyder up without intending to ride it; that somehow if it runs for a short period of time you foul the spark plugs. In some cases, dealers confirmed that principle. The two Spyder dealers I've dealt with have never mentioned this at all. I'm no "wrench" by any means, but is this true?

Glynnk



Interesting. I recall when I test rode a Spyder for the first time at the Dealer's, they replaced the plugs on the demo because there were bad, and they mentioned that is common if the Spyder is turned on and off frequently without a ride (they mentioned it was due to not getting up to the correct running temperature for a good period of time, etc...).

They mentioned this about the GS/RS model, not the RT.


Also, would be interesting to know the parameters and durations of 'intending to ride it'..... for how long for example?


I do now know the details behind it, but would like to know more.
:popcorn:
Cheers.

[rnet]

Here's the theory behind it, with fuel injected motor on start up the ECU is adding extra fuel the same way if you were choking a carbureted motor. the system will stay in rich mode until the motor reaches a specific temperature. If it doesn't reach this temp and you shut it down then extra fuel is left in the cylinder unburnt and on the next start up you could foul a plug. I have had this happen to me with the first year polaris fuel injected four stroke sled (FST). They have done a remap to correct this, but they still tell you not to shut it off tell it's warmed up.

[BumbleBee]

Yep, this is RT only, and I would bet it will be fixed with a software update at some point.


:agree:Only RT related. I think. First hand experience (happened to me), turning it on and off several times will do that! But I was installing new lights. Previous, it was sitting at the paint shop for 3 weeks, then it got really cold here, so it never got a good run.

Let it run for 10 to 20 minutes and rev it up a bit. :2thumbs:

[NancysToy]

Yep, this is RT only, and I would bet it will be fixed with a software update at some point.


Here's the theory behind it, with fuel injected motor on start up the ECU is adding extra fuel the same way if you were choking a carbureted motor. the system will stay in rich mode until the motor reaches a specific temperature. If it doesn't reach this temp and you shut it down then extra fuel is left in the cylinder unburnt and on the next start up you could foul a plug. I have had this happen to me with the first year polaris fuel injected four stroke sled (FST). They have done a remap to correct this, but they still tell you not to shut it off tell it's warmed up.
:agree: The RT seems to be more sensitive to the problem, and mine even exhibits the problem after riding and hot restarts. Never had a problem with our RS. I think it is not only related to the "cold start enrichment" mapping, but also to a relatively weak ignition system. High output coils would probably improve the situation.

[glynnk]

As usual, folks on here come through with relevant info. Thanks for helping me understand the issue.

Glynnk

[Magic Man]

OUR SM5 fouled it's plugs the very next day it came home in 12/07

It had been getting started and stopped at the Dealer to "show people" this new type of bike alot before we got there to get it.

As usual luck would have it, the next morning after sitting in the trailer over night...nothing but crank and raw fuel smell.

I changed the plugs to a one hotter heat range, and have been fine ever since no matter what we do to it.

Our RT also fouled it's plugs in the shop with all the starts we have been doing to it without riding it. I know Bumble Bee had the same problem too with all her stopps and starts while getting it painted.

I fully believe the "RT's cold start fuel map" is very rich, and repeated starts without letting the bike warm up enough to "clean itself up" will have this happen to a bunch of us. :(

I also know the Green Filter we put into it seems to not make it not run so rich on starts and also helped the throttle responce quite a bit.

MM

[Gordy]

I stalled mine when cold and it flooded but didnt foul plugs I was lucky

[groundeffect]

Sorry - newbie question.


So... if you 'foul the plugs', can you start at all? or will it just run rough or bad?


thanks

[BumbleBee]

Sorry - newbie question.


So... if you 'foul the plugs', can you start at all? or will it just run rough or bad?


thanks

Mine did not start. Had to put mine in the shop and get new Spark Plugs.
Like MM said, mine came from starting and turning off while installing my lights.

[BumbleBee]

OUR SM5 fouled it's plugs the very next day it came home in 12/07

It had been getting started and stopped at the Dealer to "show people" this new type of bike alot before we got there to get it.

As usual luck would have it, the next morning after sitting in the trailer over night...nothing but crank and raw fuel smell.

I changed the plugs to a one hotter heat range, and have been fine ever since no matter what we do to it.

Our RT also fouled it's plugs in the shop with all the starts we have been doing to it without riding it. I know Bumble Bee had the same problem too with all her stopps and starts while getting it painted.

I fully believe the "RT's cold start fuel map" is very rich, and repeated starts without letting the bike warm up enough to "clean itself up" will have this happen to a bunch of us. :(

I also know the Green Filter we put into it seems to not make it not run so rich on starts and also helped the throttle responce quite a bit.

MM

So the Green Filter helped?

[Magic Man]

So the Green Filter helped?

Your's will too. :D

[BumbleBee]

Your's will too. :D


I just placed the order, you must of seen that already. :2thumbs:

"Keep my info this time" :2thumbs:


Waiting to see what else is coming out :popcorn:

[NancysToy]

Sorry - newbie question.


So... if you 'foul the plugs', can you start at all? or will it just run rough or bad?


thanks
Depends on if you foul one, or both. Mine usually fouls one, so will just crank a long time, but often picks up. Fouling just one is another reason I suspect I may also have an ignition problem. The second plug to fire will sometimes not get fouled, however, depending on where it is in the engine cycle.

[Lamonster]

Here's the theory behind it, with fuel injected motor on start up the ECU is adding extra fuel the same way if you were choking a carbureted motor. the system will stay in rich mode until the motor reaches a specific temperature. If it doesn't reach this temp and you shut it down then extra fuel is left in the cylinder unburnt and on the next start up you could foul a plug. I have had this happen to me with the first year polaris fuel injected four stroke sled (FST). They have done a remap to correct this, but they still tell you not to shut it off tell it's warmed up.

You are correct sir. I asked about this when I called into BRP yesterday and it should act the same on the RS and RT as they both have an enrichment cycle to go through at startup.

[Magic Man]

You are correct sir. I asked about this when I called into BRP yesterday and it should act the same on the RS and RT as they both have an enrichment cycle to go through at startup.

A few posts up......

"I fully believe the "RT's cold start fuel map" is very rich, and repeated starts without letting the bike warm up enough to "clean itself up" will have this happen to a bunch of us."

mm

[groundeffect]

You are correct sir. I asked about this when I called into BRP yesterday and it should act the same on the RS and RT as they both have an enrichment cycle to go through at startup.

Thanks for helping confirm this, Lamont. I heard of this before, but I usually let my Spyder warm up to at least 1 bar before I ride. When I ride, I'm riding at minimum 15-20mins before I shutdown.

I'm guessing this will usually not foul the spark plugs...???


Lamont, any idea on how long it takes for our Spyders to complete the enriched state on startup, in minutes?

Cheers.

[Babymoose]

I have read on some other posts that the RT's ran lots better after the 600 mile check up. I wonder if they are set at the factory to run rich for the break in - I have been told in the past that Motorcycle companies used to do that on new bikes & change the jets after the first service. Could BRP be doing something like that? Seems to me they could remap the fuel curve when they hook up to the BUDS. Just askin

[Magic Man]

I wonder if they are set at the factory to run rich for the break in - I have been told in the past that Motorcycle companies used to do that on new bikes & change the jets after the first service. Could BRP be doing something like that? Seems to me they could remap the fuel curve when they hook up to the BUDS. Just askin


I know for a FACT that both of our new 2009 Sea-Doos had a "break in program" that changes after 5 hours run time.

Been there, seen that, lived it twice.

As soon as the clock turns over to 6 hours it picks up several hundered RPM and several MPH.

I have also been told the 2010 GTX-IS I will be getting has it too.

I know these boats also have a GPS speed limiter built into the units to keep the Coast Guard happy, as they are fly by wire too.

As soon as you break 70 mph the machine pulls back the throttle and keeps the speed between 69 and 70 n o matter where you hold the throttle.

The machines in Europe do not have this limiter in them, and inasmuch will pull a few MHP more than US models do. nojoke

So I do think you may be on to something here for sure. :thumbup:

MM

[groundeffect]

As soon as the clock turns over to 6 hours it picks up several hundered RPM and several MPH.


Interesting!! Sounds like a piece of built-in safety code in their computers. Kind of neat during the break-in period.:dontknow:

[VaughnCat]

I haven't had any issue with this on our RT-S. I have noticed an occasional burble while riding at a steady rpm for long period of time . . . I think this engine likes to be rung out from time to time . . . . like anyone could resist opening up the throttle anyway . . . I think the mapping will be refined in the future, but spark plugs are still much the same as they were a few decades ago. . . . wet a cold plug down with enough fuel, and it won't light up regardless of the ignition system. Warm that puppy up. . . . better yet, ride it!

[SpyderByter]

Depends on if you foul one, or both. Mine usually fouls one, so will just crank a long time, but often picks up. Fouling just one is another reason I suspect I may also have an ignition problem. The second plug to fire will sometimes not get fouled, however, depending on where it is in the engine cycle.

Scotty, Maybe Iridium plugs might resist the fouling better?

[rnet]

Here's the theory behind it, with fuel injected motor on start up the ECU is adding extra fuel the same way if you were choking a carbureted motor. the system will stay in rich mode until the motor reaches a specific temperature. If it doesn't reach this temp and you shut it down then extra fuel is left in the cylinder unburnt and on the next start up you could foul a plug. I have had this happen to me with the first year polaris fuel injected four stroke sled (FST). They have done a remap to correct this, but they still tell you not to shut it off tell it's warmed up.The temp I believe for when the FST comes off rich mode (or start up) is 122 degrees. (water temp)


You are correct sir. I asked about this when I called into BRP yesterday and it should act the same on the RS and RT as they both have an enrichment cycle to go through at startup. Lamont since you have the hot line to BRP it would be nice to know what temperature the Spyders come off of rich mode. Also maybe you could find out if they plan on doing any rides at americade. Thanks, Ron

[spyryder]

The temp I believe for when the FST comes off rich mode (or start up) is 122 degrees. (water temp)

it would be nice to know what temperature the Spyders come off of rich mode.


Looks like it relies on the oxygen sensor to come off of rich mode and enters 'closed loop' operation, from the service manual:

[rnet]

Now we just need somebody with a buds hook up to translate that to how many bars is on the temp gauge when this occurs.

[NancysToy]

Scotty, Maybe Iridium plugs might resist the fouling better?
We'll see. ;)