Disappointment

[NancysToy]

I have been struggling about whether or not to write this post. I am doing it to hope I will start to feel better. I am becoming increasingly disappointed and disillusioned with my RT, now that I have been able to start riding it. There is plenty good about it, but the bad things and the little nuisances are bothering me no end. Yesterday I rode my BMW for the first time this year, and it put my feelings in perspective. There is no hiding my disappointment.

OK, why? Well, first there is the lack of quality control in a high end (and high dollar) vehicle. Paint runs, bubbles, and abundant orange peel do not belong on a limited edition vehicle. Then there is the gauge light that repeatedly refuses to work. Of course the gas gauge bounces half the scale, buries itself at the bottom before the low fuel warning comes on, and is generally useless, so I suppose having no light may be a blessing in disguise. Even the PE number embroidery is not up to snuff, with uneven stitching that makes the "#0150" appear to say "#0450".

The Spyder ate a spark plug the very first day. It continues to do so. Hard starting, plug fouling, misfiring at highway speeds...and a response from the tech to "never start it unless you are going to ride it", and advice to carry extra plugs. Toss in the very poor mileage, and horsepower on the MCO that does not match the advertising, and my face gets longer.

The last straw has been the hideous handling. I knew from some demo rides that the RT tended to dive into turns, and that it wallowed a bit. I was not prepared for how unpredictable this was. I have to be paying close attention every single second, just to avoid running off the road. I have thousands of Spyder miles under my belt, but this is a vastly different beast...and it saddens me. The idea was to have a stable vehicle that handled well under adverse conditions, and was relaxing to ride, like our RS, but more comfortable. Highway miles with this wobbly monster are a chore, and riding behind a semi is as scary as anything I have ever done...and I have done a lot of scary things. The last straw was having the handling deteriorate when we rode two-up, and having it be so noticeable that my wife asked if I was having handling problems because of her.

I am hoping some of these things can be worked out without throwing good money after bad. I have increased the tire air pressure to no avail. I will set up the shocks to max, but I don't know if it will help much more. I have to check the toe-in, but it is not visibly bad. I will also have to check all the suspension components for looseness. The RTS will eventually require a paint job. Disappointing to throw that kind of dough at a new vehicle. The jury is still out on the misfire, I will give the dealer another chance to address it. If I can cure it somehow, it should help the mileage. The gauges will be removed and I will revert to the digitals...sad waste of money. I bought this to be a highway vehicle. If it turns into a ride-around-town toy, it will go to the back of the garage...and likely rot there. Too bad, there was great potential here, but the execution leaves much to be desired. This is without a doubt the most comfortable motorcycle I have ever ridden...bar none. Comfort can't be coupled with poor workmanship, poor performance, and bad handling, however. For now, Nancy's RS and my Beemer will continue to be the rides of choice.

[manoman14]

Sorry that you got one with issues. And so many issues at that. Someone at the factory must have been having a very bad day, and passed it along to all of his co-workers. Still no excuse for poor quality control.

[dltang]

I have been struggling about whether or not to write this post. I am doing it to hope I will start to feel better. I am becoming increasingly disappointed and disillusioned with my RT, now that I have been able to start riding it. There is plenty good about it, but the bad things and the little nuisances are bothering me no end. Yestedary I rode my BMW for the first time this year, and it put my feelings in perspective. There is no hiding my disappointment.

OK, why? Well, first there is the lack of quality control in a high end (and high dollar) vehicle. Paint runs, bubbles, and abundant orange peel do not belong on a limited edition vehicle. Then there is the gauge light that repeatedly refuses to work. Of course the gas gauge bounces half the scale, buries itself at the bottom before the low fuel warning comes on, and is generally useless, so I suppose having no light may be a blessing in disguise. Even the PE number embroidery is not up to snuff, with uneven stitching that makes the "#0150" appear to say "#0450".

The Spyder ate a spark plug the very first day. It continues to do so. Hard starting, plug fouling, misfiring at highway speeds...and a response from the tech to "never start it unless you are going to ride it", and advice to carry extra plugs. Toss in the very poor mileage, and horsepower on the MCO that does not match the advertising, and my face gets longer.

Ther last straw has been the hideous handling. I knew from some demo rides that the RT tended to dive into turns, and that it wallowed a bit. I was not prepared for how unpredictable this was. I have to be paying close attention every single second, just to avoid running off the road. I have thousands of Spyder miles under my belt, but this is a vastly different beast...and it saddens me. The idea was to have a stable vehicle that handled well under adverse conditions, and was relaxing to ride, like our RS, but more comfortable. Highway miles with this wobbly monster are a chore, and riding behind a semi is as scary as anything I have ever done...and I have done a lot of scary things. The last straw was having the handling deteriorate when we rode two-up, and having it be so noticeable that my wife asked if I was having handling problems because of her.

I am hoping some of these things can be worked out without throwing good money after bad. I have increased the tire air pressure to no avail. I will set up the shocks to max, but I don't know if it will help much more. I have to check the toe-in, but it is not visibly bad. I will also have to check all the suspension components for looseness. The RTS will eventually require a paint job. Disappointing to throw that kind of dough at a new vehicle. The jury is still out on the misfire, I will give the dealer another chance to address it. If I can cure it somehow, it should help the mileage. The gauges will be removed and I will revert to the digitals...sad waste of money. I bought this to be a highway vehicle. If it turns into a ride-around-town toy, it will go to the back of the garage...and likely rot there. Too bad, there was great potential here, but the execution leaves much to be desired. This is without a doubt the most comfortable motorcycle I have ever ridden...bar none. Comfort can't be coupled with poor workmanship, poor performance, and bad handling, however. For now, Nancy's RS and my Beemer will continue to be the rides of choice.
Scotty, definitely get it to your dealer for the gauge and the plugs problem, hopefully they can make it right. Maybe call Carlo and see if you can get new panels that have a decent paint job as well, no way a new PE should have those kinds of problems in the paint. Don't know what to say about the handling, maybe, Ken's sway bar would be just the ticket to make it handle the way you want, just throwing ideas at you. Good luck my friend, looking forward to spyder rides with you this year.

[Bersquack]

Scotty,

I sincerely hope your RT gets fixed. It is never fun to spend that kind of money on something you will not enjoy!

[BRPjunkie]

After our visit last week, I knew you were struggling with these issues. Expectations for the RT-S were very high. BRP still has some work to do. It took Honda several tries to get the Gold Wing right and they never stopped improving it. While there were some learnings from the GS/RS, the RT is still a new model and will experience some of the same first year issues. When BRP went from two passenger PWC to three passenger PWC, everyone thought that there would be no bugs since they had years of two seat experience. Each model brings new learnings. I guess you need to change your signature to happy co-owner GS and disappointed. disillusioned, dissatisfied, disheartened, disenchanted, disturbed or whatever term best fits. Hopefully, the dealer and BRP can fix some of the issues.

[xpeschon]

OK I understand this part:

Expectations for the RT-S were very high. BRP still has some work to do. It took Honda several tries to get the Gold Wing right and they never stopped improving it. While there were some learnings from the GS/RS, the RT is still a new model and will experience some of the same first year issues.

As per Scotty's words:

Even the PE number embroidery is not up to snuff, with uneven stitching that makes the "#0150" appear to say "#0450".

QUALITY CONTROL and MANAGEMENT::: BRP let the production of these embroidery numbers appear on there PE seats, SHAME on them, it should have raised a RED flag to everyone about the quality of the machine after seeing such 3rd grade work.. With all the high tech equipment BRP has you would have thought they could have purchased a embroidery computer to do this work instead of hiring a 3rd grader to hand stitch it.. When I first say this months ago I couldn't beleive it..

Best of Luck getting your PE to run right Scotty..

Joe
(X)

[BRPjunkie]

OK I understand this part:

Expectations for the RT-S were very high. BRP still has some work to do. It took Honda several tries to get the Gold Wing right and they never stopped improving it. While there were some learnings from the GS/RS, the RT is still a new model and will experience some of the same first year issues.

As per Scotty's words:

Even the PE number embroidery is not up to snuff, with uneven stitching that makes the "#0150" appear to say "#0450".

QUALITY CONTROL and MANAGEMENT::: BRP let the production of these embroidery numbers appear on there PE seats, SHAME on them, it should have raised a RED flag to everyone about the quality of the machine after seeing such 3rd grade work.. With all the high tech equipment BRP has you would have thought they could have purchased a embroidery computer to do this work instead of hiring a 3rd grader to hand stitch it.. When I first say this months ago I couldn't beleive it..

Best of Luck getting your PE to run right Scotty..

Joe
(X)

You would think that they would have learned a lesson from the GS with respect to the whole "Premier Edition" idea. Forget the fact that they can't count. They tried handlebar PE ID on GS which posed problems for those who wanted to change out the bars. The seat PE ID was not the best choice either since it is emproidered and exposed to wear and tear. A PE ID badge somehwere else on the bike may have made more sense than the seat. Quality control is the final chance to catch bad stitching, bad paint, poor fit, etc. Rush to get product out (fed by our complaining that they aren't doing it fast enough) will result in some of these issues. Still no excuse for cosmetic flaws.

[Magic Man]

What's the matter Scotty, the $5,000 quality level for $30,000 bothers you. :shocked:

Really, and I thought it was just me that these things bothered. :(

MM

[Mad Matt]

The handling is a big disappointment to us. My wife is not comfortable on this thing yet and I don't care for that. I am going to try the shocks and sway bar and then take it from there. Every trike I have ever ridden hunts to some degree, but this one is bad.

Really other than that we don't have any complaints so far.

Matt

[NancysToy]

The handling is a big disappointment to us. My wife is not comfortable on this thing yet and I don't care for that. I am going to try the shocks and sway bar and then take it from there. Every trike I have ever ridden hunts to some degree, but this one is bad.

Really other than that we don't have any complaints so far.

Matt
I am waiting anxiously for the sway bar, too. The other scary thing is the brakes...woefully inadequate. About on a level with my 65 Triumph. With two aboard, they are downright useless. Nothing like the ones that will throw you over the handlebars on my wife's GS. In BRP's defense, the dealer hasn't had a chance to look at them yet. We had other quality issues, too, like electrical connectors that were never fastened together and features that were not checked during the PDI. Sad!

[Firefly]

Sorry to hear about your problems... hopefully you can make some 'not too expensive' changes to get this bike to be a pleasing ride. Considering the good ride reports from the RT-5, I think(hope) you should be able to get this dialed in so it handles better. Maybe cranking the shocks up will do it. Not sure if Ken's swaybar will fit the RT--- but I doubt it considering the wider stance of the RT.

I would agree the stitching should be better for a product like this.

I didn't really notice the paint problems, but I didn't look that close and it wasn't too bright out when I saw your RT. I think Deb's idea of seeing if they can get you new panels is a good one.:thumbup:

While I won't excuse BRP for such quality issues, I did talk to a friend in the paint business and he said many of the new regulations on paint have made painting more difficult than it used to be. Something about the makeup of the products (technical:can't have as much nasty fumes and bad stuff due to the tree huggers) has changed in recent years -- making their job more difficult. In my way of thinking this will weed out the 'wanna be' good painters and allow the quality guys to stand out even more... but will hurt production line painting like the Spyder. Just my .02.

I'm having some panels painted (as soon as I get them) and I'll let you see how they turn out.:thumbup:

[BumbleBee]

Sorry to hear of all your troubles you are having and how disappointed you are. I hope all those issues will be fixed and resolved soon.

The only problem I have with mine is; handling is not as good as my previous spyder, it does wallow a lot, especially in the curves (I have to slow down much more now taking the curves). When the wind hits me, I feel it wallowing there also. I hope with time and after I put on many more miles, I hope that it will go away. But don't forget it is a different bike!

The one thing I have learned. Don't turn it off and on. That foules up the spark plugs. Let it run 10 to 20 minutes, and rev it up a bit. I know first hand, my own doing here, lesson taught.

Otherwise I enjoy my RT-S a lot, and as of now I made the right decision. :D

[BHawksworth]

I have two RT's in my garage. One is my Dad's, but I ride them both. One is in the shop due to the DPS issue. Taking that aside, I've set both to the second to most firm suspension setting. I'm about 218 lbs. Both handle very well and very nimbly, with no wallowing (after I increased the suspension setting). Both track very well, although they get blown about a little bit if a tractor trailer flies by at speed, due to the big fairing. Paint quality, stitching, etc. is superb. This is just my experience - I guess it must come down to the individual unit.

[docdoru]

One is in the shop due to the DPS issue.
:yikes:

[Smylinacha]

I hope you can get all this fixed Scotty!

I really think you wrote it all very well - it's as professional as those reviews I read in bike magazines. You are one of the gearheads here and because of that, you know what you are talking about and if BRP is reading then they should pay attention to this post that your wrote. Just hope it can all get fixed up for ya:thumbup:

[Freditor]

It really bothers me to see someone have problems like this. I think I would have to agree that it comes down to individual units, and luck of the draw got you a bad one. Of course, luck shouldn't have anything to do with it - quality control should have settled that.
Personally, I have 20,000 miles on my RT, and couldn't be happier. Certainly no issues with the paint - it looks great and has held up well against a real pounding in sandstorms and even over dirt roads. My gas gauge used to be like yours, but BRP installed a new sender unit and now it works perfectly. As to the suspension and handling - I noticed some wallowing at first, but after setting the front suspension up to the max, and increasing the base air pressure on the rear to 60 psi, I haven't really had an issue with it. However, I should note that I tried higher air pressure in the tires (20 psi), and the problem actually got worse. Things improved when I went back to the recommended 15 psi. I think it is related to sidewall flex, and the ability of the tires to absorb lateral stresses without transmitting them through to the frame and steering.
Having been a professional bike tester for nearly 40 years, I have to admit that this sort of hit-and-miss quality control is almost always evident in the first production year of any bike. I honestly think that BRP has done, and is doing, everything in their power to negate the problems, but that is little solace to a first-time buyer like yourself.
The "proof of the pudding" will be how they handle things from here, re, trying to make you a happy customer in the end.
My advice to you, having seen this scenario play out many times before, is to deal with the company and your dealer in a cordial, but insistent manner. Getting angry, making threats, or slamming them publicly or privately will only make things harder on both sides.
Just my two cents worth...
Fred

[fastfraser]

:2thumbs: Good honest write up . Thanks Scotty . From your write up, and the value I put on your knowledge and understanding of the :spyder2: I at this point will wait for a year or so until I take a look at the RTS again .

[docdoru]

Getting angry, making threats, or slamming them publicly or privately will only make things harder on both sides.Fred
Should the owner turn the other cheek ?!? :lecturef_smilie:

[ROTXMECH]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.

[docdoru]

welcome :thumbup:

[xpeschon]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.

Welcome aboard, I see this was your first post, don't go any where now cause we will PICK your brain for sure starting with Scooty issue.. Again, Welcome and thanks for stopp'in in..

Joe
(X)

[BHawksworth]

Well, and just to note, my DPS issue may be a little different than what some have reported on the GS machines. Mine went into limp mode flashing the DPS light, which is why I call it a DPS issue. But I didn't experience the famous 'notch' or pulling to one side, so it may be a software, rather than a mechanical issue.


:yikes:

[Magic Man]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF
THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE
CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[Firefly]

It really bothers me to see someone have problems like this. I think I would have to agree that it comes down to individual units, and luck of the draw got you a bad one. Of course, luck shouldn't have anything to do with it - quality control should have settled that.
Personally, I have 20,000 miles on my RT, and couldn't be happier. Certainly no issues with the paint - it looks great and has held up well against a real pounding in sandstorms and even over dirt roads. My gas gauge used to be like yours, but BRP installed a new sender unit and now it works perfectly. As to the suspension and handling - I noticed some wallowing at first, but after setting the front suspension up to the max, and increasing the base air pressure on the rear to 60 psi, I haven't really had an issue with it. However, I should note that I tried higher air pressure in the tires (20 psi), and the problem actually got worse. Things improved when I went back to the recommended 15 psi. I think it is related to sidewall flex, and the ability of the tires to absorb lateral stresses without transmitting them through to the frame and steering.
Having been a professional bike tester for nearly 40 years, I have to admit that this sort of hit-and-miss quality control is almost always evident in the first production year of any bike. I honestly think that BRP has done, and is doing, everything in their power to negate the problems, but that is little solace to a first-time buyer like yourself.
The "proof of the pudding" will be how they handle things from here, re, trying to make you a happy customer in the end.
My advice to you, having seen this scenario play out many times before, is to deal with the company and your dealer in a cordial, but insistent manner. Getting angry, making threats, or slamming them publicly or privately will only make things harder on both sides.
Just my two cents worth...
Fred


Great letter and advice from someone with some serious miles on these units! What a wealth of knowledge we have available out here.... :thumbup:

How on earth did people figure stuff out before these here internets? I forget!

Also great advice on how to handle such problems.:thumbup:

[Firefly]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.


welcome

Not sure about the RT, but changing plugs on the RS isn't too bad at all--- especially if you no longer have the airbox installed---;)

Just a side note---- typing in ALL CAPS is generally frowned upon as it's more difficult to read-- and caps are usually reserved for making a STRONG POINT (Cyber Yelling).....:thumbup:

[Sarge707]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.


Try NOT to use caps "Please" its like shouting!!!nojoke

[WizardMaster]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[BRPjunkie]

Try NOT to use caps "Please" its like shouting!!!nojoke

I've always wondered; if caps is "shouting" and lower case is "talking" how do we "whisper"? :dontknow: :D

[Magic Man]

I've always wondered; if caps is "shouting" and lower case is "talking" how do we "whisper"? :dontknow: :D

How's this for a wisper? :D


MM

[NancysToy]

It really bothers me to see someone have problems like this. I think I would have to agree that it comes down to individual units, and luck of the draw got you a bad one. Of course, luck shouldn't have anything to do with it - quality control should have settled that.
Personally, I have 20,000 miles on my RT, and couldn't be happier. Certainly no issues with the paint - it looks great and has held up well against a real pounding in sandstorms and even over dirt roads. My gas gauge used to be like yours, but BRP installed a new sender unit and now it works perfectly. As to the suspension and handling - I noticed some wallowing at first, but after setting the front suspension up to the max, and increasing the base air pressure on the rear to 60 psi, I haven't really had an issue with it. However, I should note that I tried higher air pressure in the tires (20 psi), and the problem actually got worse. Things improved when I went back to the recommended 15 psi. I think it is related to sidewall flex, and the ability of the tires to absorb lateral stresses without transmitting them through to the frame and steering.
Having been a professional bike tester for nearly 40 years, I have to admit that this sort of hit-and-miss quality control is almost always evident in the first production year of any bike. I honestly think that BRP has done, and is doing, everything in their power to negate the problems, but that is little solace to a first-time buyer like yourself.
The "proof of the pudding" will be how they handle things from here, re, trying to make you a happy customer in the end.
My advice to you, having seen this scenario play out many times before, is to deal with the company and your dealer in a cordial, but insistent manner. Getting angry, making threats, or slamming them publicly or privately will only make things harder on both sides.
Just my two cents worth...
Fred
Thanks for your comments and input, Fred. I set the suspension up another notch to max, and it has helped, but it won't be suitable for two-up work until I can add a heavier sway bar and/or Elka shocks. I am two settings above that recommended for a solo rider heavier than I am, and at the max, which is never a good thing. We're definitely going to need more. I hope the Evoluzione swaybar for the RT is not long in coming to market.

I really don't expect much help from the dealer in resolving these issues. I am not a first time buyer, and we had to get Carlo to intervene with Nancy's Spyder. I will keep my fingers crossed, but I will not get my hopes up in the least. They have already missed several items during the PDI, and have glossed over or poo-pooed some of the other issues I mentioned. I expect to have to resolve these issues myself, one by one, at my own cost. The aesthetic issues are a lost cause...and a crying shame. The handling and the lack of brakes need to be addressed before this thing can be considered to be even remotely "road-worthy". I am a very experienced rider, with over fifty years, thousands of miles, a wide variety of motorcycles, and substantial racing experience, including some time on fuel bikes. I also have considerable mechanical and engineering experience. I do not cry wolf easily or needlessly. That is why I decided to express my disappointment here, publicly.

I'll keep experimenting, rattling the dealer's cage, and modifying things as I go along. The pity of it all is that such a thing is necessary with a high-end machine.

[effgjamis]

How's this for a wisper? :D


MM

shhhh " can you hear me now "



Scotty:
it is with much displeasure that I have read the issues of the RT after spending much $$$$.
It seems that those that have had no issues with the RT and those who do not own the RT yet, do not have the emphany of your issues.
When one gets on in age and retired, or ??? it is very difficult to enjoy a toy, or a means of transportion of which in years past we loved when we are facing those issues which makes the toy a corner piece decoration in one's barn, garage, or maybe living room.
I hope and pray that those in the power to correct the issues do it with most haste as our days are not as long as others to wait for a fix.
I do not own a RT but I do an RS/GS and have quite a few miles and have been blessed somewhat in little issues with one expection ( DPS ) but that seems to have been fixed, at least for now.
Keep the faith and courage to continue the saga until the issues are resolved.
Thank you for all your knowledge that you have shared and I really appreciate that information be it good, bad or indifferent.

[strats]

Scotty, it saddens me to hear of your woes. I only have a few complaints with my RT-S and like you, one of them is a paint blemish on the "frunk" lid, kind of looks like a paintbrush hair under the paint, The "Spyder RT-S" screening on the chrome trim LHS pannier is all but gone and with every wipe of a cloth more comes off, then there are those gauges... I would be happy for BRP to give me the blanking caps so I can remove them all together, sure glad I paid a premium price to have them.
Must admit I have my front shockers on the 5th setting, and tyres @ 20psi, and whilst it is a totally different ride than the RS, I dont find it that bad, and ALL of my riding is 2 up, so maybe there is a bigger problem than just shocks and tyre pressure with your beast.
I'm forgiving my dealer for the remote "frunk" release and light not working due to the connector on the microswitch being fitted upside down as it was only his second RT-S build. (and without your help and problem solving probably would still not be working)
At least I'm lucky with my PE embroidery on my seat, if it looks too shabby I can always swap with Babyanlee's seat, after all, we have the same PE number.:dontknow:
One thing I do agree on, I expected a lot better quality for $45000 AUD, and was lucky enough to have voiced this personally to the Australian BRP rep at my dealership a couple of weeks ago, along with trying to get some explaination of the "no Ipod gift" with an RT-S purchase in Australia... seems we may get a Maglite or something.

Hope everything gets sorted out mate, I value your thoughts, your experience and your help and look forward to more of the same.

[BRPjunkie]

How's this for a wisper? :D


MM

I CAN'T HEAR YOU! SPEAK UP! Maybe it's that I can't read font that small without my +1.75 readers?

[HDXBONES]

I have been struggling about whether or not to write this post. I am doing it to hope I will start to feel better. I am becoming increasingly disappointed and disillusioned with my RT, now that I have been able to start riding it. There is plenty good about it, but the bad things and the little nuisances are bothering me no end. Yestedary I rode my BMW for the first time this year, and it put my feelings in perspective. There is no hiding my disappointment.

OK, why? Well, first there is the lack of quality control in a high end (and high dollar) vehicle. Paint runs, bubbles, and abundant orange peel do not belong on a limited edition vehicle. Then there is the gauge light that repeatedly refuses to work. Of course the gas gauge bounces half the scale, buries itself at the bottom before the low fuel warning comes on, and is generally useless, so I suppose having no light may be a blessing in disguise. Even the PE number embroidery is not up to snuff, with uneven stitching that makes the "#0150" appear to say "#0450".

The Spyder ate a spark plug the very first day. It continues to do so. Hard starting, plug fouling, misfiring at highway speeds...and a response from the tech to "never start it unless you are going to ride it", and advice to carry extra plugs. Toss in the very poor mileage, and horsepower on the MCO that does not match the advertising, and my face gets longer.

Ther last straw has been the hideous handling. I knew from some demo rides that the RT tended to dive into turns, and that it wallowed a bit. I was not prepared for how unpredictable this was. I have to be paying close attention every single second, just to avoid running off the road. I have thousands of Spyder miles under my belt, but this is a vastly different beast...and it saddens me. The idea was to have a stable vehicle that handled well under adverse conditions, and was relaxing to ride, like our RS, but more comfortable. Highway miles with this wobbly monster are a chore, and riding behind a semi is as scary as anything I have ever done...and I have done a lot of scary things. The last straw was having the handling deteriorate when we rode two-up, and having it be so noticeable that my wife asked if I was having handling problems because of her.

I am hoping some of these things can be worked out without throwing good money after bad. I have increased the tire air pressure to no avail. I will set up the shocks to max, but I don't know if it will help much more. I have to check the toe-in, but it is not visibly bad. I will also have to check all the suspension components for looseness. The RTS will eventually require a paint job. Disappointing to throw that kind of dough at a new vehicle. The jury is still out on the misfire, I will give the dealer another chance to address it. If I can cure it somehow, it should help the mileage. The gauges will be removed and I will revert to the digitals...sad waste of money. I bought this to be a highway vehicle. If it turns into a ride-around-town toy, it will go to the back of the garage...and likely rot there. Too bad, there was great potential here, but the execution leaves much to be desired. This is without a doubt the most comfortable motorcycle I have ever ridden...bar none. Comfort can't be coupled with poor workmanship, poor performance, and bad handling, however. For now, Nancy's RS and my Beemer will continue to be the rides of choice.

Scotty, it's very sad to hear you say these things. I remember the excitement and anticipation you had for your new RT. With you having one of the most calm, level, and fair demeanors on this board, I'm sure it wasn't easy for you to post this.

But I also believe that this is a fair assessment. With the wealth of experience that you have, I believe every word. And fair is fair, so even the undesirable should be reported.

I agree completely with you. A nearly $30,000 machine should not need more money thrown at it to attempt to overcome ''poor workmanship, poor performance, and bad handling". Shame on BRP :lecturef_smilie:

I see that some responders here would have you accept the shortcomings, and chalk it up to it being a new product...... If that's the case, BRP should have sold it at an introductory price. But they didn't, and you are correct to not accept it as such. I guess it's much easier to look past the shortcomings of the product when it's not your $30,000 that you are offering advice about.:dontknow:

My advice is to talk publicly, frequently, and loudly about your displeasure. BRP will hear it and will have to do something. If there is no public awareness, how does it make things better for the next guy? Giving the manufacturer a 'free ride', or 'the benefit of the doubt' only empowers them to continue their mediocrity.

You can bet Carlo will be calling you now, trying to smooth the ripples, and for your sake I hope he can. But after spending the $$, and raising these points, I hope he doesn't talk you , or any other like-minded RT buyers for that matter, into settling for accepting these shortfalls.....:doorag:

[tatt2r]

I agree with HDX you are one of the most helpful people on this site and shouldn't have to deal with this I would bitch until it is right .... nothing worse than paying for something of any cost and be disapointed

[grumpybob]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.

If these are common issues what are the uncommon issues?

If I can't change the plugs myself, do I have to get it towed in everytime they get fouled because I don't want to ride it and take a chance of damaging the engine?

What if I am 300 miles from home and/or a dealer when the plugs foul?

How much does it cost me for labor to not be able to change my own fouled plugs?

Just curious!!

[grumpybob]

Scotty - sorry you are having such bad luck with your new rYde!! Hope it all gets fixed quickly for you.

With your vast experience - I can only imagine what a new buyer with with no other bike experience would be thinking or doing!!

[gazey]

I am having a blast on my RS.
I "was" thinking about upgrading to the RT.
After reading about your problems I might just hold of and "stay tuned" to SpyderLovers. :popcorn:

[glynnk]

Scotty--I too am sorry to hear about your situation. I've got a little over 2,000 miles on my RT-S and the only issues I've had to deal with are the "bouncy" gas gauge, which has been replaced and now is solid as a rock; the handling which has been rectified by adjusting the shocks to a higher setting; and the gas mileage, which hopefully improves somewhat, but then again, I didn't buy the RT for the gas mileage. My paint job is outstanding and the PE number stitching is fine. I've done very little "two-up" riding, but it's never presented any problems from my perspective. My riding consists of freeways and back country roads with a lot of twisties. Even on two wheels, my riding style was never in the "peg scraper"category, so I'm not in the position of "pushing" the RT. While I was an owner of an '09 RS, the RT does ride and handle differently as you know, but I'm not disappointed at all in my RT. In my opinion, it's a very comfortable ride with good power.

There are a few people on this board that I've come to respect based on their knowledge and even handed manner in addressing concerns and you're right up there at the top, so it is a bit disturbing to hear about your observations and disappointment. Hopefully, those issues can be resolved to your satisfaction.

Please keep us informed because it's important for all of us to know what BRP and the dealer does in getting things worked out.

Glynnk

[Firefly]

If these are common issues what are the uncommon issues?

If I can't change the plugs myself, do I have to get it towed in everytime they get fouled because I don't want to ride it and take a chance of damaging the engine?

What if I am 300 miles from home and/or a dealer when the plugs foul?

How much does it cost me for labor to not be able to change my own fouled plugs?

Just curious!!

With all due respect to the new tech that posted, I don't believe for a minute that the end-user cannot replace the plugs. Perhaps they are just unaware that most of us out here are very handy....:thumbup:

[boborgera]

With all due respect to the new tech that posted, I don't believe for a minute that the end-user cannot replace the plugs. Perhaps they are just unaware that most of us out here are very handy....:thumbup:

I just change my [two] plugs and the Y gaskets my self, finish about an hour ago. I've change more plugs in MY life time than Carter has little pills.
The average owner will be hard pressed to do it them self, and it's not going to be done on the side of the road!! Removing the plastic is the easy part, Removing the air box that's a pain in the :cus: Then it's all got to go back with out extra screws laying around. And your going need a good set of tools, Tools that have Fisher Price stamp on the side won't cut it.

[NancysToy]

I just change my [two] plugs and the Y gaskets my self, finish about an hour ago. I've change more plugs in MY life time than Carter has little pills.
The average owner will be hard pressed to do it them self, and it's not going to be done on the side of the road!! Removing the plastic is the easy part, Removing the air box that's a pain in the :cus: Then it's all got to go back with out extra screws laying around. And your going need a good set of tools, Tools that have Fisher Price stamp on the side won't cut it.
:agree: .....but does that mean we are above or below average? :roflblack:

[boborgera]

:agree: .....but does that mean we are above or below average? :roflblack:

Right on the Curve = Plus or Minus :ohyea:

[Questions]

When the Rt was announced I started looking at them, nand even got the financing in place.....I'm still approved for the $38,000.00 that they were asking for the RT-S and the trailer complete.....but after stepping back and thinking about the problems that I had, had with my RS and haden't gotten them taken care of.... I just figured if they couldnt repair a $18,000 SPYDER then they wouldn't be able to repair a $38,000 SPYDER... that would make me more angry to get it twice as bad the second time around....

Now let me say this....I DO LOVE MY SPYDER!!! and I wouldnt trade it for anything else thats out there...Buy, the way BRP and the servicing locations have screwed around with NO QUALITY CONTROLL and not wanting to fix the things that are wrong.... I will hold into my letter from my Credit Union that says I'm approved for the money until they can repair my RS...its comming up on two years in October....At least I did get it over to the guys at West Coast Power Sports and they took care of most of the problems that I was having...at the time...GREAT WORK GUYS!!!!

One question is the plug fouling problem common to the RS ROTAX 990 ALSO?

I hope you all get your problems taken care of..and in a flash!

[BRPjunkie]

I don't recall plug fouling issues with the GS 990 Rotax. While the two engines are almost identical, they do have different compression, different throttle bodies and different octane requirements. I don't know if the spark plugs are the same.

[boborgera]

Should the owner turn the other cheek ?!? :lecturef_smilie:

Only if he's on a free ride. :D

[Mad Matt]

Just so we don't dwell on the negative here...the only issue I am really having is the wallowing handling. One reason the handling is so mushy is because the suspension is so soft. The RT is the most comfortable riding bike or trike I have ever ridden. So the handling is at least in part the price we are paying for the soft ride.

Other than a loose hose clamp on a radiator hose that was dripping some coolant (which the dealer fixed) , I just brought mine in for the 600 mile service and have not had any other issues.

So far I think it's a great machine.

Mad Matt

[Dudley]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.


Take a deep breath and then let it go. Scotty probably has more mechanical experience than you will ever dream of and if you read his post correctly, the plug fouled on the FIRST ride. That is unacceptable. And, he can probably change both plugs faster than you can change ONE. If a unit that sells for $26,000 needs ANYTHING done to it before 25,000 miles, then the factory people better get a grip on it and get off their stuffed chairs and get to work. And, btw, any reason for your CAPS? Are you trying to impress us with your knowledge by using the CAPS? I am blasting you because you have posted without cause or knowledge and demeaned one of my good friends.

[bodymanpainter]

Just so we don't dwell on the negative here...the only issue I am really having is the wallowing handling. One reason the handling is so mushy is because the suspension is so soft. The RT is the most comfortable riding bike or trike I have ever ridden. So the handling is at least in part the price we are paying for the soft ride.

Other than a loose hose clamp on a radiator hose that was dripping some coolant (which the dealer fixed) , I just brought mine in for the 600 mile service and have not had any other issues.

So far I think it's a great machine.

Mad Matt

:agree:Love mine and haven't had any issues with it and have almost 2000 mi. on it. I ride it daily to and from work. Sorry to here about all the problems hope they are taken care of.:spyder:

[SPIIDR]

I too noticed the Spyder going all over the joint whilst i was ridind in windy conditions and corners. i have had the dealer set the suspenssion (front) to setting 5 and it has made a heap of difference. Most of the time it is 2 of us on the bike but when i am solo it is still a big improvement. Having owned an RS myself the Rt did get a while to get used too but have over come the fear factor. hope you can solve your issues and if you find and aftermarket product that will hepl please let me know.

[effgjamis]

Just a question..

Why would one need a aftermarket componet to resolve handling and/or steering issue which is not a DPS problem?

[NancysToy]

Just a question..

Why would one need a aftermarket componet to resolve handling and/or steering issue which is not a DPS problem?
Sometimes it is the only anwer to overcome design shortcomings. As was said, the RT suspension is soft to enhance the ride, like a Cadillac. Unfortunately handling has suffered excessively, and most owners have been forced to raise the suspension pre-load to the max provided, two steps above the recommended for me. That leaves no room for further adjustment. Only the aftermarket can provide a more adjustable shock at this time. Sad, but it is the reality.

[effgjamis]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

But do you think just by changing shocks and adding a sway bar will resolve the handling issue?

Thanks..

[docdoru]

Sometimes it is the only anwer to overcome design shortcomings. As was said, the RT suspension is soft to enhance the ride, like a Cadillac. Unfortunately handling has suffered excessively, and most owners have been forced to raise the suspension pre-load to the max provided, two steps above the recommended for me. That leaves no room for further adjustment. Only the aftermarket can provide a more adjustable shock at this time. Sad, but it is the reality.
Going to max on the suspension pre-load and increasing tire pressure is going to hurt in time the bearings, hub and bushels. See previous GS/RS experience.

[Lamonster]

I'm sorry to hear about your bad case of buyers remorse Bro. I've tried to honest and point out the short comings of the RT along with the good points.

Paint runs, bubbles, and abundant orange peel
I do not have any runs or bubbles in my paint. I do have orange peel but it can only be seen in certain light at certain angles. I don't have a problem with that seeing just about every new car has the same thing. I can see you not being happy with it and the runs and bubbles sounds like you had some bad prep on the paint for sure. They should replace those parts.

I find that the fit and finish is much better than the RS. The panels fit better and they have done a great job at concealing the fasteners.

Then there is the gauge light that repeatedly refuses to work. Of course the gas gauge bounces half the scale, buries itself at the bottom before the low fuel warning comes on
This is a no brainer, they need to replace your gauge and/or your sending unit. That's a bummer but those that have had this problem have had it fixed under warranty.

Even the PE number embroidery is not up to snuff, with uneven stitching that makes the "#0150" appear to say "#0450"
I'm not sure what you can do about and I'm sure if you didn't have these other issues you wouldn't be focused on this at all.

The Spyder ate a spark plug the very first day. It continues to do so. Hard starting, plug fouling, misfiring at highway speeds...and a response from the tech to "never start it unless you are going to ride it"
I have no idea why you and others seem to be fouling plugs on the RT but it does have something to do with starting it and not riding it. This needs to be reported to BRP so they can look into this.

The last straw has been the hideous handling.
My very first post about the RT and several after that has been about the front suspension being too soft. Cranking it up all the way makes a big difference and putting Elka's on pretty much solved the problem for me.

I will say that the RT does not cut the wind like the RS and it is more prone to getting blown around than the RS. I found that I am not as relaxed in heavy wind as I was on my RS. I am over 4000 miles into this trip right now and I've been in some really bad wind coming across OK, TX, NM, and AZ. I'm towing a trailer so I'm sure that changes the effect somewhat but it is what it is and I just have to deal with it.

I read this post before I took off yesterday and really paid attention to the handling. I was able to pass semi's with one hand at 80 mph with out too much problem. I just have to relax even more so than I do on the RS. For the most part it handles fine with the new shocks for me but it would have been nice if they gave us more adjustment with the stock shocks rather than having to max them out to start with.

I hope you can work through these things with your dealer but I wouldn't hesitate to give Carlo a call and let him know about your concerns.

[scudrunner]

As you can see on the left, I am new to this board and Spyder world. Our RT-S NOW (after last night's ride) has 150 miles on it.
I will say that I'm impressed with the members on this board who are for the most part extremely civil. Just an observation, I hope we don't run off the young tech who posted his first message. He sounds young, energetic and will be a valuable asset.
I can empathize with Scotty's problems having been a first year production vehicle owner in the past. Sometimes, we ARE the beta testers. But if the manufacturer has any sense, they will use those instances as learning opportunities.
My observations on our RT-S (just from hearsay mind you, I don't have my motorcycle endorsement yet, so I can't sit in the pilot's seat! ;)). I've noticed the "wobble", "wandering", "track hunting" or what ever you want to call it and find it to be slightly alarming, especially when it starts to oscillate or wiggle. It appears to be the Spyder version of the Dutch Roll found on swept wing airplanes. I have not had a chance to attempt to dampen the wiggle, but I'm hoping that by stiffening the front end and adding a little air to the tires, it will decrease to the point of acceptability. Some one said it may be related to sidewall flex. By adding pressure to the front tires, that should stiffen the sidewalls a little.
Thanks to all, the research has been immensely valuable. What did we do before internet? It was called the library and Google was the Dewey Decimal System. If you found the one book that had references to your problem, you were ecstatic!

p.s. does anyone know the average age of the RT-S owner? Seems to me from the pictures, we are an older lot. Well, I am anyway. Nice to have the fresh voice of ROTXMECH on here.

[boborgera]

ROTXMECH [/B]on here.


95 Going on 25 :yes::yes::yes:

[nonseven]

I find all this disheartening. Based on this new input, I'm putting the purchase of the RT-S I was looking at on hold. I can't see spending $26k on a crap-shoot.

Maybe I'll just buy that Harley V-Rod I had my eye on.

[SC_DOC]

After reading the above posts, I guess I should consider myself lucky that my problems, while very frustrating and time consuming, have been relatively minor. I had a series of fault lights throwing the bike into limp mode and spent 3 hours at the dealer while service tried to figure out what caused it. They could not find anything wrong, so I left. The next day I got a DPS fault that put into limp mode, but this time I cleared it by stopping, killing engine, removing key, and restarting. Again back to the dealer for 4 hours while they talked to BRP, tested pressure sensors, brake light switch, etc. , test drove for 25 miles, not finding or reproducing the problem. I go in tomorrow for the 600 mile service and hope I don't encounter anything else. This seems to be some sort of virtual problem, rather than a real one cause by some electronic glitch, because when I got the DPS fault and limp mode, the steering was fine. No drift, no stiffness, etc.

If anyone has any ideas that I could pass on to the dealer, jump right in.

[grumpybob]

p.s. does anyone know the average age of the RT-S owner? Seems to me from the pictures, we are an older lot. Well, I am anyway.

Old enough to remember and driven a Ford Edsel- one time.:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

[retired1]

Scudrunner;
If I recall correctly there was a poll done on ages of owners, I don't remember the post date.
Riding the RTS does take a little more concentration, but to me the amenities more than make up for any of the perceived shortcomings of the bike. Just my opinion.

[Dwight]

Scotty,

I think you are absolutely correct about the handling. I've adjusted my front shocks up to max settings, added air to the front tires, and adjusted rear suspension to max also. Two up, doesn't help much. I'm at the point of seeing if front alignment needs work. The handling on this thing reminds me of a dirt track car with toe in. It's all over the place! I don't know what the civilian term for it is but I suspect we may also be dealing with bump steer issues. I am also a long time rider, 46 years. I've owned 3 conventional trikes, Honda and two Harleys, with a total trike mileage of 70K miles. I also have many thousands of miles on sidecars. Total mileage during my lifetime is close to 300K. I've also spent a lot of time racing, mostly dirt, but I have won a few pavement races. My race vehicles were built by me. That doesn't make me an expert but it helps to put things in perspective. I don't think I've ever driven or ridden anything that requires more concentration than this RT. My other trikes could be ridden in a pretty relaxed condition. The RT requires 100% of your attention. It hunts and wanders even on good roads. I thought with the 2 in front setup that it would be more stable, such is not the case. I’m also disappointed in the RT. I will install the sway bar as soon as it’s available, I don’t think that’s going to be a cure all but it will surely help. The next step is to check the alignment, all three wheels, and maybe experiment with different settings. My race cars, even on pavement, liked just enough toe out to be measurable – maybe that’s what I need on the RT? I have my Harley/CSC for sale, I hate to admit it but I’m having second thoughts.

I’ve had no other serious problems, well I guess the “yaw sensor” was but that was corrected by the dealer. No real complaints overall other than the handling. We still love the concept but if I can’t get the handling any better the Harley may come off the for sale list.

Dwight

[WaltH]

Scotty:

I hope to see you in Cuba (Missouri), and if I do, I want you to ride my GS/RS so you can feel what it is like to have car tires on the front wheels. I love the way my Spyder goes around a corner. It is rock solid. An expensive sports car could not do better. It surely was not that way in the beginning. A big part of the improvement comes from the car tires. Of course, I have done other things as well, including RT shocks and the sway bar.

I understand you are having handling problems that go beyond just cornering, but I don't want you to overlook the potential of changing tires. This is an inexpensive modification. I also understand that the GS/RS has different aerodynamic characteristics.

If I don't see you in Cuba, I am sure I will see you at the "Homecoming".

[scudrunner]

Old enough to remember and driven a Ford Edsel- one time.:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

So THAT'S why you are grumpy!!! roflmao

[boborgera]

Scotty,

I think you are absolutely correct about the handling. I've adjusted my front shocks up to max settings, added air to the front tires, and adjusted rear suspension to max also. Two up, doesn't help much. I'm at the point of seeing if front alignment needs work. The handling on this thing reminds me of a dirt track car with toe in. It's all over the place! I don't know what the civilian term for it is but I suspect we may also be dealing with bump steer issues. I am also a long time rider, 46 years. I've owned 3 conventional trikes, Honda and two Harleys, with a total trike mileage of 70K miles. I also have many thousands of miles on sidecars. Total mileage during my lifetime is close to 300K. I've also spent a lot of time racing, mostly dirt, but I have won a few pavement races. My race vehicles were built by me. That doesn't make me an expert but it helps to put things in perspective. I don't think I've ever driven or ridden anything that requires more concentration than this RT. My other trikes could be ridden in a pretty relaxed condition. The RT requires 100% of your attention. It hunts and wanders even on good roads. I thought with the 2 in front setup that it would be more stable, such is not the case. I’m also disappointed in the RT. I will install the sway bar as soon as it’s available, I don’t think that’s going to be a cure all but it will surely help. The next step is to check the alignment, all three wheels, and maybe experiment with different settings. My race cars, even on pavement, liked just enough toe out to be measurable – maybe that’s what I need on the RT? I have my Harley/CSC for sale, I hate to admit it but I’m having second thoughts.

I’ve had no other serious problems, well I guess the “yaw sensor” was but that was corrected by the dealer. No real complaints overall other than the handling. We still love the concept but if I can’t get the handling any better the Harley may come off the for sale list.

Dwight

Just wondering' Why didn't the few that have free rides mention how bad the handling is, and not just sugar coat it?
[i guess the free part answers that]
How many company's can sell 25thou.$ cars and you have to add your own suspension parts to make it handle right and stay in business?

[fredace]

FWIW, I've switched to Elka shocks and that has made a very large difference in the handling and cornering. As a matter of fact, this weekend I had a passenger for the first time and I actually thought the RT-S handled better two-up.
It's too bad that you'd need to spend like $700 for different shocks, but they did do the trick.

[NancysToy]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

But do you think just by changing shocks and adding a sway bar will resolve the handling issue?

Thanks..
Unsure of that, as yet, and unfortunately there is only one way to find out. One thing is for certain...sure can't hurt.

[grumpybob]

So THAT'S why you are grumpy!!! roflmao

Don't want to interrupt the importance of this thread, but that is just one of many reasons.

[Roaddog2]

Scotty, definitely get it to your dealer for the gauge and the plugs problem, hopefully they can make it right. Maybe call Carlo and see if you can get new panels that have a decent paint job as well, no way a new PE should have those kinds of problems in the paint. Don't know what to say about the handling, maybe, Ken's sway bar would be just the ticket to make it handle the way you want, just throwing ideas at you. Good luck my friend, looking forward to spyder rides with you this year.:agree:just found a slight flaw on my gas tank in Decaling under clear coat new tank ordered no questions asked :thumbup:Stay right on there butts Scotty and get paint and all your concerns fixed.:gaah:

[NancysToy]

No buyer's remorse, just serious disappointment, Lamont. I want the RTS with all my heart...I just want it to be predictable and safe. Everything that the GS/RS is, handling-wise and relaxed riding-wise, my RTS is not! That is a blow to me. You know I love the Spyder. As was said, this thing requires 100% concentration. It has also been unpredictable. My experience mixed in with the semis on the highway was unnerving...even to an old racer like me. Not a lock-to-lock wobble, but several inches in each direction. You certainly could not one hand it. Shot me onto the opposite shoulder when I pulled out to pass, and I barely retained control. Worst I have ever ridden in thousands and thousands of miles. I am no rookie!

The bad brakes are the clincher. It is unsafe at highway speeds in this condition. I don't want to b***h, get sympathy, or throw rocks. I just want a safe, sane ride, like the one the RS has provided. We'll see what the dealer comes up with, but they have ignored the paint, plugs, and gauge thus far, so I really don't expect miracles. I will spend what is necessary (reluctantly), and either cure it or park it. It is nobody's worry but my own. I still think a punch list of nearly 25 items on a luxury tourer is a bit much, however. I don't think it is wrong to be disappointed...or to say so.

[Roaddog2]

Scotty, it's very sad to hear you say these things. I remember the excitement and anticipation you had for your new RT. With you having one of the most calm, level, and fair demeanors on this board, I'm sure it wasn't easy for you to post this.

But I also believe that this is a fair assessment. With the wealth of experience that you have, I believe every word. And fair is fair, so even the undesirable should be reported.

I agree completely with you. A nearly $30,000 machine should not need more money thrown at it to attempt to overcome ''poor workmanship, poor performance, and bad handling". Shame on BRP :lecturef_smilie:

I see that some responders here would have you accept the shortcomings, and chalk it up to it being a new product...... If that's the case, BRP should have sold it at an introductory price. But they didn't, and you are correct to not accept it as such. I guess it's much easier to look past the shortcomings of the product when it's not your $30,000 that you are offering advice about.:dontknow:

My advice is to talk publicly, frequently, and loudly about your displeasure. BRP will hear it and will have to do something. If there is no public awareness, how does it make things better for the next guy? Giving the manufacturer a 'free ride', or 'the benefit of the doubt' only empowers them to continue their mediocrity.

You can bet Carlo will be calling you now, trying to smooth the ripples, and for your sake I hope he can. But after spending the $$, and raising these points, I hope he doesn't talk you , or any other like-minded RT buyers for that matter, into settling for accepting these shortfalls.....:doorag::agree:could have not said it better :ani29:

[frank3]

WOW. After reading all of this, I'm very concerned. I have great respect for Scotty and his opnions. If ever I have any questions concerning my RT, I always look for Scotty's reply or his posts about those topics. I'm a novice ridder but really enjoy my Rt. I have also noticed the wind effects on the Rt and issues following a semi. I cross a lot of that off to the wider front track on the RT. Needless to say, with the really wide front track, alignment is vitally important. I haven't noticed much "wandering" with mine on better paved surfaces but it gets real itchy when on well worn highway surfaces. It's always looking for the track and never quite matches the one worn in the pavement. I am also disappointed with the paint, although, I don't have any sags or bubbles, I come from a auto facotry background and know paint quality is easier to acheive than demonstrated on my RT. I pray Carlo has read all of this and is just as alarmed as I am. I would really hate to lose Scotty's input and advise concerning the RT. Scotty, your problems will be on my mind for a long time. I hope BRP is listening and responds quickly. BTW, I think you need to find another dealer.

[M2Wild]

FWIW, I've switched to Elka shocks and that has made a very large difference in the handling and cornering. As a matter of fact, this weekend I had a passenger for the first time and I actually thought the RT-S handled better two-up.
It's too bad that you'd need to spend like $700 for different shocks, but they did do the trick.


Unsure of that, as yet, and unfortunately there is only one way to find out. One thing is for certain...sure can't hurt.

Too bad BRP won't pickup the tab for the fix.

[bcspyder]

Scotty, sorry to hear about your problems so far. The first time I saw the RT I wondered about the suspensions capability to handle the added weight and height. Without a way better suspension I thought it might be too top heavy. My main concern is the lack of service from your dealer. That they glossed over things or ignored your concerns is totally unacceptable. You do not seem to be the yelling and screaming type so the dealer should be doing his best to make you happy. Unfortunately, I think this is the reason for alot of unhappiness with Spyder ownership and the difficulty nailing down the steering issues. The dealer network is not very good. I am not sure if this has been discussed but I wonder the percentage of dealers that also carry motorcycle lines. If you are at a Can Am specific dealer those techs have only experienced off road machines that when things go wrong it is inconvenient but not critical. Things going wrong at 60 mph can be VERY critical! Hopefully we can continue to have techs contribute here.

[csmead]

So sad to hear your troubles. Please join me in a private "pity party" moment; for your RT and the loss of my RS. Fortunately or unfortunately my RT is on the way. Let us hope that my RT has less personal issues than my RS, because I would like to make up for a year's lost riding time!
Keep us informed with any updates or patches they provide you with!

[boborgera]

Old enough to remember and driven a Ford Edsel- one time.:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:

And the push button auto trans, in the middle of the steering wheel :yikes:

[G-Man]

HELLO SPYDER LOVERS I AM A TECHNICIAN TRAINED BY THE FACTORY TO SERVICE THESE VEHICLES AND A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT U ARE HAVING ARE ACTUALLY PRETTY COMMON ISSUES. SPARK PLUGS FOULING ARE VERY COMMON AND I CAN TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE SPARK PLUGS YOURSELF SO I DONT SEE WHY YOU WOULD CARRY NEW PLUGS. I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE ALSO THAT WHEN U HAD YOUR PLUGS CHANGED THAT THEY ONLY DID 1 SIDE THAT IS PROBABLY WHY YOU CONTINUED TO EXPIERIENCE THE PROBLEM. EVERY SPYDER I HAVE EVER CHANGED THE SPARK PLUGS ON IMMEDIATELY RIDE BETTER AND DO NOT CONTINUE TO HAVE STARTING ISSUES. AS FAR AS YOUR STEERING IS CONCERNED THAT IS ALSO A COMMON PROBLEM IF YOU ARE EXPIERIENCING THE UNIT PULLING OR WANDERING BY ITSELF THEN U ARE PROBABLY NEEDING A NEW DPS UNIT. I HAVE REALLY GOTTEN A LOT OF MIXED REVIEWS ON THE SPYDERS AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET A GOOD REVIEW OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY AND WE CAN CONTINUE TO GROW.


Think about it befor giving this poster (poser?) any credibility. (?)

[tatt2r]

Take a deep breath and then let it go. Scotty probably has more mechanical experience than you will ever dream of and if you read his post correctly, the plug fouled on the FIRST ride. That is unacceptable. And, he can probably change both plugs faster than you can change ONE. If a unit that sells for $26,000 needs ANYTHING done to it before 25,000 miles, then the factory people better get a grip on it and get off their stuffed chairs and get to work. And, btw, any reason for your CAPS? Are you trying to impress us with your knowledge by using the CAPS? I am blasting you because you have posted without cause or knowledge and demeaned one of my good friends.

give um hell Dudley:D

[tatt2r]

(quote from lamonster) The Spyder ate a spark plug the very first day. It continues to do so. Hard starting, plug fouling, misfiring at highway speeds...and a response from the tech to "never start it unless you are going to ride it"
I have no idea why you and others seem to be fouling plugs on the RT but it does have something to do with starting it and not riding it. This needs to be reported to BRP so they can look into this.


not to tell scotty anything about tech knowing he is a lot more informed than me... but i was told the same thing by my dealer when i bought my PE not to start it unless i was driving it or it could foul plugs...

[Neez]

Before I would spend all that coin to "upgrade" to that fancy-pants wallowing elephant, I would far rather spend the money customising my GS with every concievable worthwhile aftermarket goody, plus a knock-out paint job. You would end up with a worthwhile ryde. I mean, inadequate brakes ? Orange peel? Wonky handling? Fouling plugs? Scotty, deal that sorry beast and build a real Spyder!

[Sekhet]

Scotty,
We’re sorry to hear about your problems and hope that you can get them fixed quickly. I thought that we were the only ones who have had a paint problem. I was at the dealership when they uncrated what was supposed to be our RT… The paint on the fenders had what appeared to be brush and drip marks all over them and there were deep gouges in the top of the tail trunk. We refused to take delivery and the dealer ungrudgingly refunded our deposit. We are still waiting on the RS to come in and will be inspecting it very closely when it arrives, before we take delivery. As for an RT, we’re going to wait till the dealer gets some inventory in that we can go over with a fine tooth comb and ride before purchasing. Till then I guess we’ll just have to put up with the Gold Wing.

[Smylinacha]

Mechanicals is bad and I guess you don't notice those things till you ryde it but crating a brand new vehicle with brush strokes and paint daubs on it, or orange peel? That's insane. Wonder what credentials you need to be an Inspector there. Doesn't sound like you need much.

[ThreeWheels]

Scotty,
How many times have you brought your spyder back to the dealer ?

You know I'm having a similar problem with the wiggly ride on the highway. I'm bringing it back to the dealer tomorrow to have the alignment done on Friday. This will be the second time I've brought it in for the wiggle, last time they adjusted spring preload and tire pressure. If they don't get it right this time (although I believe they will), I'll bring it back a third time. At that point, we're talking about lemon laws, which will give me legal leverage to get my money back.
How about you ??

[Wheeler~]

Being my first Spyder.......I say again, Ignorance is bliss!

[Spydr in KS]

Thanks for your comments and input, Fred.


Fred 9 posts

Scotty 5400 highly informative and quality posts

Enough said...

Fix it BRP!

[SpyderByter]

Scotty, it's very sad to hear you say these things. I remember the excitement and anticipation you had for your new RT. With you having one of the most calm, level, and fair demeanors on this board, I'm sure it wasn't easy for you to post this.


:agree:
You have been a invaluable resource as an Spyder owner on this site. In your assesment of problems you have always been helpful without slamming BRP. I don't see you slamming them now, just giving another assesment that all can benefit from including BRP. I sure hope BRP and your dealer step up and make this right by you.

Sorry for your dissapointment.....:(

[Spydr in KS]

We'll see what the dealer comes up with, but they have ignored the paint, plugs, and gauge thus far, so I really don't expect miracles. I will spend what is necessary (reluctantly), and either cure it or park it. It is nobody's worry but my own. I still think a punch list of nearly 25 items on a luxury tourer is a bit much, however. I don't think it is wrong to be disappointed...or to say so.

Can you go to another dealer. I sat on my first Spyder at your dealer, they are big and have an impressive showroom. But sounds like you deserve better service.

[NancysToy]

I'd like to set the record straight, a bit. First, My RTS has been to the dealer once for warranty work, but I am waiting until the 625 mile service to cover the current list of issues In a couple of days). The dealer did ignore the paint issues (twice), but they changed a plug and warned against starting without riding, which was appropriate for a Spyder with fouled plugs and zero miles on the odometer. They deserve a chance to respond to the continuing situation. The gauge light was quickly looked at, but not seen. Part of that may be my fault in not describing it adequately.

There are 22 remaining items on my punch list. This would be bad even for Detroit in the 80s. I will offer them the opportunity to address them, however. I took care of a couple of issues myself, which were related to improper dealer prep. I will inform them...for their education or amusement. I did not add small items like the innacurate ambient temp gauge to my list, BTW. I am trying to be fair, and accomodating. Other items, like adjusting the alignment, are performed at the factory, and the dealer is blameless in their regard. Condemning a dealer without giving him a chance is not appropriate, to me.

My Spyder has some serious handling and braking issues. I rode two identically prepared RT demos that had slightly "soft" handling, but no hint of these severe issues. I have to think that my RTS is either an extreme case, or has additional contributing factors that have yet to be discovered. I do not think that all RTS owners, or those contemplating an RTS purchase should condemn the RTS because of my experiences. While I have pointed out the need for a heavier sway bar since my first demo ride, I do not think all touring Spyders handle miserably, only that they could be improved. I would recommend that owners set the suspension pre-load higher if they are having problems. Beyond that, see your dealer. I also do not expect the RT to ever handle exactly like the RS, but the ride should be as effortless and safe feeling. Extreme concentration on your riding, cannot be maintained every second of a long ride. You just wear yourself out. If you are in this fix, like me, give the dealer a chance to set it right.

I hope this has clarified my stance a little. I remain disappointed...but hopeful. If all else fails I'll try to trade my PE for their demo.

[csmead]

I would like to add...
One of the reasons that Microsoft almost (and may have) lost their edge in software technology was the attitude of "let the buyer fix it." As users, we got tired of all the patches, promises, etc.
BRP should take note of this.
I understand; we would like to "personalize" and improve our bikes by adding accessories or upgrading. But what I find unacceptable is to expect users to buy a new bike, and immediately replace the shocks, adding sway bars, etc. The bike should stand alone as a well built and usable product. And after a couple of years, replace worn parts with upgrades. At what point did we find it acceptable to spend a lot of $$ on something that poorly built? When is was the last time you purchased a new chair with 6 inch legs, a new car without the correct rims and bald tires, a new TV without an electrical cord?
For those of you who jump on the "upgrade" bandwagon, remember that you are enabling BRP not to address these issues...
For people like me, I stand up and fight the good fight... to make the bike a better product for everyone...
Fixing it yourself is not forcing BRP to fix these issues. The Spyder should be for everyone...not just those who are mechanically minded enough to switch out $1,000 parts every few weeks.

[HDXBONES]

For those of you who jump on the "upgrade" bandwagon, remember that you are enabling BRP not to address these issues...
For people like me, I stand up and fight the good fight... to make the bike a better product for everyone...
Fixing it yourself is not forcing BRP to fix these issues. The Spyder should be for everyone...not just those who are mechanically minded enough to switch out $1,000 parts every few weeks.

:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

I meant to say, I couldn't agree more:2thumbs:

[bikeguy]

Scotty, I'm really sorry to hear that you're having so many problems with the RT. You are one we know doesn't panic and jump off the deep end without having explored every possibility and made sure that the problems are real. I hate to say it but I guess I hope that many of these problems are unique to your RT rather than being common to all of them. At the same time, I really, really hope that the dealer and/or BRP will make the effort that it takes to fix yours or even to replace it. I feel sure that the handling problem is going to be common to them all so I guess I can plan on new shocks and a swaybar when they are available. Wind conditions in west Texas can be terrible and it takes a pretty stable bike to ride in the wind with any confidence. Best of luck and let's hope that BRP steps up to the plate with fixes for everything.

Cotton

[Wheeler~]

:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:

I meant to say, I couldn't agree more:2thumbs:
DITTO :2thumbs: ! I fall into the category of mechanically inept!

[bjt]

Just wondering' Why didn't the few that have free rides mention how bad the handling is, and not just sugar coat it?
[i guess the free part answers that]
How many company's can sell 25thou.$ cars and you have to add your own suspension parts to make it handle right and stay in business?


I think Scotty's problems with handling are only with his RTS and not common among all RTS's. I rode one on a demo ride back in November and I had no worries about the handling and I equated the ride feel to the difference between driving a sports car (my GS Spyder) and a luxury sedan (the RTS).

[Wheeler~]

I think Scotty's problems with handling are only with his RTS and not common among all RTS's. I rode one on a demo ride back in November and I had no worries about the handling and I equated the ride feel to the difference between driving a sports car (my GS Spyder) and a luxury sedan (the RTS).
Good analogy. Makes perfect sense!

[MouthPiece]

Before I would spend all that coin to "upgrade" to that fancy-pants wallowing elephant, I would far rather spend the money customising my GS with every concievable worthwhile aftermarket goody, plus a knock-out paint job.

Sorry, but I don't consider my RTS a "fancy pants" machine. Many, if not all of us, bought the RTS for a nice comfortable ride and one which we could carry a passenger comfortably as well as safely.

I for one have experienced some of the riding problems expressed on this thread. However, I took measures to learn to deal with them. It was suggested to me that I read the owner's manual reference operating instructions when I asked a question concerning what measures were taken when ryders experienced the steering problem that has so many times appeared in threads.

What I did instead was "learn my spyder" and it's limitations. For the past three months we've had very inclement weather. Besides the cold and yes it got cold in Flarda, we had torrential rains and wind that had gusts as high as 65 to 70 mph. I took my spyder out in all this mess so that I could learn its limitations. I purposely rode in all this to learn just what it would do. I also chose to ride the interstate several times going to Daytona at peak hours knowing that I would have a barrage of "semi's" going by me. Admittedly it buffeted me around, but again this was a learning curve for me, and after all, we are riding a machine that is almost 63 inches wide in the front.

I am directing my comments to those who are questioning their decision to purchase the RTS. I for one am very happy with my RTS, and I have no doubts at all that I made a good decision. Admittedly I have not been on any long distance tour, but instead mainly putt putting around AND 100 mile trips. Additionally, I'm no professional or experienced ryder.

[Smylinacha]

:2thumbs::agree::clap:


I would like to add...
One of the reasons that Microsoft almost (and may have) lost their edge in software technology was the attitude of "let the buyer fix it." As users, we got tired of all the patches, promises, etc.
BRP should take note of this.
I understand; we would like to "personalize" and improve our bikes by adding accessories or upgrading. But what I find unacceptable is to expect users to buy a new bike, and immediately replace the shocks, adding sway bars, etc. The bike should stand alone as a well built and usable product. And after a couple of years, replace worn parts with upgrades. At what point did we find it acceptable to spend a lot of $$ on something that poorly built? When is was the last time you purchased a new chair with 6 inch legs, a new car without the correct rims and bald tires, a new TV without an electrical cord?
For those of you who jump on the "upgrade" bandwagon, remember that you are enabling BRP not to address these issues...
For people like me, I stand up and fight the good fight... to make the bike a better product for everyone...
Fixing it yourself is not forcing BRP to fix these issues. The Spyder should be for everyone...not just those who are mechanically minded enough to switch out $1,000 parts every few weeks.

[Mr.B]

I'd like to set the record straight, a bit. First, My RTS has been to the dealer once for warranty work, but I am waiting until the 625 mile service to cover the current list of issues In a couple of days). The dealer did ignore the paint issues (twice), but they changed a plug and warned against starting without riding, which was appropriate for a Spyder with fouled plugs and zero miles on the odometer. They deserve a chance to respond to the continuing situation. The gauge light was quickly looked at, but not seen. Part of that may be my fault in not describing it adequately.

There are 22 remaining items on my punch list. This would be bad even for Detroit in the 80s. I will offer them the opportunity to address them, however. I took care of a couple of issues myself, which were related to improper dealer prep. I will inform them...for their education or amusement. I did not add small items like the innacurate ambient temp gauge to my list, BTW. I am trying to be fair, and accomodating. Other items, like adjusting the alignment, are performed at the factory, and the dealer is blameless in their regard. Condemning a dealer without giving him a chance is not appropriate, to me.

My Spyder has some serious handling and braking issues. I rode two identically prepared RT demos that had slightly "soft" handling, but no hint of these severe issues. I have to think that my RTS is either an extreme case, or has additional contributing factors that have yet to be discovered. I do not think that all RTS owners, or those contemplating an RTS purchase should condemn the RTS because of my experiences. While I have pointed out the need for a heavier sway bar since my first demo ride, I do not think all touring Spyders handle miserably, only that they could be improved. I would recommend that owners set the suspension pre-load higher if they are having problems. Beyond that, see your dealer. I also do not expect the RT to ever handle exactly like the RS, but the ride should be as effortless and safe feeling. Extreme concentration on your riding, cannot be maintained every second of a long ride. You just wear yourself out. If you are in this fix, like me, give the dealer a chance to set it right.

I hope this has clarified my stance a little. I remain disappointed...but hopeful. If all else fails I'll try to trade my PE for their demo.

Scotty,
You are a class act. Stay the course and stay true to your ethics. Looks like you have strong following here and if BRP is listening they should respect that.
As you know I picked up my RTS on Saturday, drove it 18 miles and ran to an issue "limp home" was the direction given by my new toy. On Monday my dealer picked up the RTS and they are working on the problem. I too plan to give them the opportunity to support me. I have faith that they will.

Lucky Baldwin:agree:

[Mr.B]

I'd like to set the record straight, a bit. First, My RTS has been to the dealer once for warranty work, but I am waiting until the 625 mile service to cover the current list of issues In a couple of days). The dealer did ignore the paint issues (twice), but they changed a plug and warned against starting without riding, which was appropriate for a Spyder with fouled plugs and zero miles on the odometer. They deserve a chance to respond to the continuing situation. The gauge light was quickly looked at, but not seen. Part of that may be my fault in not describing it adequately.

There are 22 remaining items on my punch list. This would be bad even for Detroit in the 80s. I will offer them the opportunity to address them, however. I took care of a couple of issues myself, which were related to improper dealer prep. I will inform them...for their education or amusement. I did not add small items like the innacurate ambient temp gauge to my list, BTW. I am trying to be fair, and accomodating. Other items, like adjusting the alignment, are performed at the factory, and the dealer is blameless in their regard. Condemning a dealer without giving him a chance is not appropriate, to me.

My Spyder has some serious handling and braking issues. I rode two identically prepared RT demos that had slightly "soft" handling, but no hint of these severe issues. I have to think that my RTS is either an extreme case, or has additional contributing factors that have yet to be discovered. I do not think that all RTS owners, or those contemplating an RTS purchase should condemn the RTS because of my experiences. While I have pointed out the need for a heavier sway bar since my first demo ride, I do not think all touring Spyders handle miserably, only that they could be improved. I would recommend that owners set the suspension pre-load higher if they are having problems. Beyond that, see your dealer. I also do not expect the RT to ever handle exactly like the RS, but the ride should be as effortless and safe feeling. Extreme concentration on your riding, cannot be maintained every second of a long ride. You just wear yourself out. If you are in this fix, like me, give the dealer a chance to set it right.

I hope this has clarified my stance a little. I remain disappointed...but hopeful. If all else fails I'll try to trade my PE for their demo.


I would like to add...
One of the reasons that Microsoft almost (and may have) lost their edge in software technology was the attitude of "let the buyer fix it." As users, we got tired of all the patches, promises, etc.
BRP should take note of this.
I understand; we would like to "personalize" and improve our bikes by adding accessories or upgrading. But what I find unacceptable is to expect users to buy a new bike, and immediately replace the shocks, adding sway bars, etc. The bike should stand alone as a well built and usable product. And after a couple of years, replace worn parts with upgrades. At what point did we find it acceptable to spend a lot of $$ on something that poorly built? When is was the last time you purchased a new chair with 6 inch legs, a new car without the correct rims and bald tires, a new TV without an electrical cord?
For those of you who jump on the "upgrade" bandwagon, remember that you are enabling BRP not to address these issues...
For people like me, I stand up and fight the good fight... to make the bike a better product for everyone...
Fixing it yourself is not forcing BRP to fix these issues. The Spyder should be for everyone...not just those who are mechanically minded enough to switch out $1,000 parts every few weeks.

:agree:

[RoadHammer]

I would like to add...
One of the reasons that Microsoft almost (and may have) lost their edge in software technology was the attitude of "let the buyer fix it." As users, we got tired of all the patches, promises, etc.
BRP should take note of this.
I understand; we would like to "personalize" and improve our bikes by adding accessories or upgrading. But what I find unacceptable is to expect users to buy a new bike, and immediately replace the shocks, adding sway bars, etc. The bike should stand alone as a well built and usable product. And after a couple of years, replace worn parts with upgrades. At what point did we find it acceptable to spend a lot of $$ on something that poorly built? When is was the last time you purchased a new chair with 6 inch legs, a new car without the correct rims and bald tires, a new TV without an electrical cord?
For those of you who jump on the "upgrade" bandwagon, remember that you are enabling BRP not to address these issues...
For people like me, I stand up and fight the good fight... to make the bike a better product for everyone...
Fixing it yourself is not forcing BRP to fix these issues. The Spyder should be for everyone...not just those who are mechanically minded enough to switch out $1,000 parts every few weeks.
WOW. I couldn't have said the above any better. amen:pray:

[NancysToy]

Before I would spend all that coin to "upgrade" to that fancy-pants wallowing elephant, I would far rather spend the money customising my GS with every concievable worthwhile aftermarket goody, plus a knock-out paint job.

Sorry, but I don't consider my RTS a "fancy pants" machine. Many, if not all of us, bought the RTS for a nice comfortable ride and one which we could carry a passenger comfortably as well as safely.

I for one have experienced some of the riding problems expressed on this thread. However, I took measures to learn to deal with them. It was suggested to me that I read the owner's manual reference operating instructions when I asked a question concerning what measures were taken when ryders experienced the steering problem that has so many times appeared in threads.

What I did instead was "learn my spyder" and it's limitations. For the past three months we've had very inclement weather. Besides the cold and yes it got cold in Flarda, we had torrential rains and wind that had gusts as high as 65 to 70 mph. I took my spyder out in all this mess so that I could learn its limitations. I purposely rode in all this to learn just what it would do. I also chose to ride the interstate several times going to Daytona at peak hours knowing that I would have a barrage of "semi's" going by me. Admittedly it buffeted me around, but again this was a learning curve for me, and after all, we are riding a machine that is almost 63 inches wide in the front.

I am directing my comments to those who are questioning their decision to purchase the RTS. I for one am very happy with my RTS, and I have no doubts at all that I made a good decision. Admittedly I have not been on any long distance tour, but instead mainly putt putting around AND 100 mile trips. Additionally, I'm no professional or experienced ryder.

I'm glad your approach worked for you. I never recommend that anyone "push the envelope" and drive anywhere near their limits. I also always recommend that owners know their machines well. In this case however, the safe limits of the machine are at about the 50 mph point. As someone who has ridden and driven at many times that speed, I think I am well qualified to judge. If you think that I will be satisfied with a $25,000 machine that is no more capable than a $5,000 scooter, you are mistaken. A person in your profession should appreciate that. If putt-putting around on a machine that was sold as a touring motorcycle satisfies you, great, but it does not, and will not, ever satisfy me. I bought this machine to eat up the miles...a job it was advertised to fulfill. If it is incapable of that task, I have a right to be displeased.

[jimclarkf1]

I wonder if Carlo, will he respond on here, or has BRP ever responed for the public can see. Scotty is one of the BEST:clap:

[Roaddog2]

I would like to add...
One of the reasons that Microsoft almost (and may have) lost their edge in software technology was the attitude of "let the buyer fix it." As users, we got tired of all the patches, promises, etc.
BRP should take note of this.
I understand; we would like to "personalize" and improve our bikes by adding accessories or upgrading. But what I find unacceptable is to expect users to buy a new bike, and immediately replace the shocks, adding sway bars, etc. The bike should stand alone as a well built and usable product. And after a couple of years, replace worn parts with upgrades. At what point did we find it acceptable to spend a lot of $$ on something that poorly built? When is was the last time you purchased a new chair with 6 inch legs, a new car without the correct rims and bald tires, a new TV without an electrical cord?
For those of you who jump on the "upgrade" bandwagon, remember that you are enabling BRP not to address these issues...
For people like me, I stand up and fight the good fight... to make the bike a better product for everyone...
Fixing it yourself is not forcing BRP to fix these issues. The Spyder should be for everyone...not just those who are mechanically minded enough to switch out $1,000 parts every few weeks.:agree::agree::agree::agree::clap:

[Firefly]

I would like to add...
One of the reasons that Microsoft almost (and may have) lost their edge in software technology was the attitude of "let the buyer fix it." As users, we got tired of all the patches, promises, etc.
BRP should take note of this.
I understand; we would like to "personalize" and improve our bikes by adding accessories or upgrading. But what I find unacceptable is to expect users to buy a new bike, and immediately replace the shocks, adding sway bars, etc. The bike should stand alone as a well built and usable product. And after a couple of years, replace worn parts with upgrades. At what point did we find it acceptable to spend a lot of $$ on something that poorly built? When is was the last time you purchased a new chair with 6 inch legs, a new car without the correct rims and bald tires, a new TV without an electrical cord?
For those of you who jump on the "upgrade" bandwagon, remember that you are enabling BRP not to address these issues...
For people like me, I stand up and fight the good fight... to make the bike a better product for everyone...
Fixing it yourself is not forcing BRP to fix these issues. The Spyder should be for everyone...not just those who are mechanically minded enough to switch out $1,000 parts every few weeks.

I fully understand and agree with most of your post--- with the exception of the Microsoft reference....:hun: .

Anyhow....

Scotty is a patient and considerate Spyder owner - and I hope he will be able to work things out and get results from his dealer (who happens to be my dealer too). I've had good experiences with the dealer, but have not had any major issues at all... so I may not be the best judge of their willingness to work on such things.

Scotty is well respected and and one of those genuinely nice folks that doesn't just complain about things for the sake of complaining. If he states there is a problem--- then rest assured there IS a problem. I sure hope BRP steps up to the plate and takes care of him---- we'll all be watching closely!

[syclemom]

Sorry for your issues, I have been there in years past too, We just returned from a week at The Texas Three Twisted Sisters a very good proving ground for thr Rt, hrer is we wound up, Rear tire gone at 6500 mi.at factory tire pressure, raised front to stiffest setting 21psi. in front tires, helped keep bike from squirming on sofr sidewalls, put a Nitto n450 extreme performance tire on rear, now at 18psi. NOT 28, my wife now very comfortableat speed, takes curves much!! better , I suspect when I get the front tires off and replaced with an auto tire with better sidewalls will only get better,she hurt alot of two wheelers feelings around Leakey who thought she would hold them up by driving away from them, fit ,finish no issues.

[Wheeler~]

put a Nitto n450 extreme performance tire on rear.

Does this tire fit the 2010 Spyder RT's. If so how much and where did you get it from.

[2Gunns]

Scotty,
I am sorry to hear of the problems you're having. I could tell by your post that you were anticipating only the best. My personal experience with my RT and other post I've read, l honestly believe your issues are in the minority category and SHOULD definitely be corrected by dealer/BRP. I pray that will be the case and you will soon be out on the road enjoying a SAFE ryde.

I for one, could not be happier with my Spyder, in fact, neither my Nightrain nor V-Star have gone any further than around the block since Dec. 31, the day I brought the RT home.

[M2Wild]

Scotty is a patient and considerate Spyder owner - and I hope he will be able to work things out and get results from his dealer (who happens to be my dealer too). I've had good experiences with the dealer, but have not had any major issues at all... so I may not be the best judge of their willingness to work on such things.

Scotty is well respected and and one of those genuinely nice folks that doesn't just complain about things for the sake of complaining. If he states there is a problem--- then rest assured there IS a problem. I sure hope BRP steps up to the plate and takes care of him---- we'll all be watching closely!

Known Scotty ever since I joined this forum. His knowledge and patience is well know to all of us. For him to write a thread like this really makes me question the QC method BRP is using and lack of attention to customer satisfaction and loyalty retension. Buying a $20+K bike should not be a crap shoot. PEs needs to be perfect in every sense and not come down to the luck of the draw. I for one will sit on my '08 with its extended warrenty. I will not buy anything new from BRP until I see the product is on firm ground. I am not rich enough to be their guinne pig and be on their bleeding edge.:sour:

[effgjamis]

Lets go for a ride.

I think I could conjour up a ride with Wheeler, Thespyderman, myself and maybe Docdoru.

Doc and I are planning a trip to Cuba, Mo 15th of april, and would love additional riders. Planning on the 1,100 mile journey in about 24 hrs, ( saves hotel costs :roflblack: ) and besides we love to ride.

As you noticed I live in Kissimme so give me a call 407-520-1061.

Have a great day and keep the rubber down and plastic up.

OH.. Wheeler = RT the rest of us RS/GS.

[westgl]

I have three Goldwings.

Gwing front & rear suspension (front & rear shocks) are rebuild-able.

On Two of my Gwing's, I rebuilt the front forks & Rear shocks.

On one of the Wings I put heavier shock oil & put a progressive spring that was wound soft at the beginning and then harder as it went down the spring.

This made it handle Great!!

Are the Spyder front shock rebuild-able?

I may try to contact Progressive Suspension

Does anyone have dimensions on the Spyder front shocks?

Westgl

[rineer4635]

I was going to be a Spyder RT owner. I do a lot of snowmobiling. So the Spyder RT really interested me. I test rode one last Saturday and (IMO)it handled/ steered more like a snowmobile than a motorcycle. I plan to have my wife test ride it this Saturday. After reading of all of the issues though, I am thinking that I will not be buying one.

[M2Wild]

I was going to be a Spyder RT owner. I do a lot of snowmobiling. So the Spyder RT really interested me. I test rode one last Saturday and (IMO)it handled/ steered more like a snowmobile than a motorcycle. I plan to have my wife test ride it this Saturday. After reading of all of the issues though, I am thinking that I will not be buying one.
At least wait for the next model year. Second release of PE edition shouldn't have this much pain associated with it. BRP should take note of this thread and pay attention to their customers and their QC.

[NancysToy]

I was going to be a Spyder RT owner. I do a lot of snowmobiling. So the Spyder RT really interested me. I test rode one last Saturday and (IMO)it handled/ steered more like a snowmobile than a motorcycle. I plan to have my wife test ride it this Saturday. After reading of all of the issues though, I am thinking that I will not be buying one.
Spyders do steer more like snowmobiles or ATVs than motorcycles. That is their nature, and it is a necessary function of the three wheel design, just as for a motorcycle with a sidecar, or a trike conversion. Don't let it throw you. You get very used to it, very quickly. Once you get used to the idea of leaning your body into the turn instead of the motorcycle, and steering instead of countersteering, it becomes instinctive...and you do great. It may take several demo rides, or about 100 miles on the Spyder, before you are comfortable.

Don't let the problems with mine throw you off. I think it is the exception. The demos I rode were safe and predictable. If they can't fix mine, I will try to trade it for another. The RT does have some wallow, and some handling differences from the sport Spyder, but these normally can be addressed by suspension adjustments (within limits). Under normal circumstances, the wind buffeting issues are no more serious than on any motorcycle with a large windshield...actually better than some I have owned. On the plus side, it is without a doubt, the most comfortable motorcycle I have ever ridden in over fifty years, and it has an incredible amount of very useable storage. Keep an open mind, you may be pleasantly surprised.

[M2Wild]

If they can't fix mine, I will try to trade it for another.
:wrong: I don't believe anyone who spend $25K on a brand spanking new bike should resort to trading their problems away because they happen to get a lemon with the luck of the draw. BRP need to be accountable for the issues they let pass the production line. Just like a previous poster said, if you spend money to fix issues that shouldn't be there in the first place, you are giving BRP a free pass and they will continue to pull stunt like this. Only when they are held accountable, will they attempt to make change and the end result will be better for ALL of us as well as the company itself.

[Wheeler~]

:wrong: I don't believe anyone who spend $25K on a brand spanking new bike should resort to trading their problems away because they happen to get a lemon with the luck of the draw. BRP need to be accountable for the issues they let pass the production line. Just like a previous poster said, if you spend money to fix issues that shouldn't be there in the first place, you are giving BRP a free pass and they will continue to pull stunt like this. Only when they are held accountable, will they attempt to make change and the end result will be better for ALL of us as well as the company itself.

I'm sorry to hear that remarks made for BRP ears, are influencing the NEW Spyder RT purchasers decisions to buy. Take it from a rider who has ridden and owned several different makes and models of bikes, there's not one out there without it's own infamous problems. For Scotty to have had so many issues with his Spyder, it's obvious he has a unique bike, with problems most of us have not experienced. Again, as many issues as he has experienced are the exception, rather than the rule.
After about 75 miles on my Spyder, pushing it to the limits, I now know the capabilities of the bike. It takes up to it's first 100 miles of riding to become familiar with the changes in it's handling over a traditional 2 wheeler. Granted, I only have 3056 miles on my RT, but I'm familiar with it's abilities. It's the most comfortable, best handling and cornering vehicle I've owned. I know Scotty's and other issues experienced by owners will be addressed, as will my issues. I can still say, with no reservations, I LOVE MY SPYDER!

[rineer4635]

Spyders do steer more like snowmobiles or ATVs than motorcycles. That is their nature, and it is a necessary function of the three wheel design, just as for a motorcycle with a sidecar, or a trike conversion. Don't let it throw you. You get very used to it, very quickly. Once you get used to the idea of leaning your body into the turn instead of the motorcycle, and steering instead of countersteering, it becomes instinctive...and you do great. It may take several demo rides, or about 100 miles on the Spyder, before you are comfortable.

Don't let the problems with mine throw you off. I think it is the exception. The demos I rode were safe and predictable. If they can't fix mine, I will try to trade it for another. The RT does have some wallow, and some handling differences from the sport Spyder, but these normally can be addressed by suspension adjustments (within limits). Under normal circumstances, the wind buffeting issues are no more serious than on any motorcycle with a large windshield...actually better than some I have owned. On the plus side, it is without a doubt, the most comfortable motorcycle I have ever ridden in over fifty years, and it has an incredible amount of very useable storage. Keep an open mind, you may be pleasantly surprised.Thanks for the thoughts. I actually was VERY comfortable riding the Spyder RT and liked the handling. I think it was due to all of my snowmobiling miles.

[scudrunner]

I stopped by the dealer yesterday to pick up my plates. Talking to the owner, he asked how I liked it. Great except the steering is a little squirrely. He offered to take it in the back, tighten up the suspension and raise the front pressure to 18 psi. It did help, although with only one rider, it's still a little light. As far as the front end.... from what I can determine of the design (not just Spyder, but any 2 front 1 back wheel design), the front is going to be inherently loose. With one wheel pushing in the center, as you move over the road or are influenced by wind, the forces will shift right or left. This will push more on one front wheel than the other. 4 wheelers don't do this because they have ...... 4 wheels. haven't ridden a snowmobile, but would assume the same forces would be involved at a lesser degree.
To anyone who is using this thread as an excuse NOT to buy a Spyder, I believe the problems that Scotty has are the exception. He is just lucky that all the problems showed up in that one bike! I only have 160 miles on mine, but am becoming more comfortable with it. It's like anything else, you have to learn the personality before you can work with it. Just ask my wife!
:shemademe_smilie: :lecturef_smilie:

[Questions]

While I'm not an avid poster, I have owned an RT-S PE since early January and personally, my experiences are similar to Scotty's.

In terms of the fit and finish, my RT came out of the box with a damaged passenger grab handle. That piece has yet to have been replaced. To be fair, when the Dealer told me last week that it hasn't yet arrived, I told them that we'll get it done when my riding season ends in a few months.

Yes, I have the bad gas gauge and brakes that squeak very loudly. I've also noticed the same poor braking characteristics that Scotty clearly pointed out. On my first service, the Dealer told me that there was (at that time) no fix for the gas gauge and that they'd monitor the brakes. (Not a warm and fuzzy feeling to have brakes that squeak and feel inadequate). For whatever reason, the brakes don't feel that they can stop the Spyder RT in an efficient manner.

Now the big thing...Highway Speed Handling:

We have to remember that the RT is billed as being a touring machine. If it was billed as an "around towner" or "bar hopper" my expectations would be reasonable, but it's not...it's a highway touring machine. Or at least, that's how it's promoted. Personally, I've been very disappointed with the Spyder's poor handling at more than 55 miles per hour. Add a bit of wind to the equation and it's more work than fun attempting to keep it running in a straight line. At times, it feels downright unstable when riding at highway speeds. The handling at speed feels as if there is absolutely no margin for error and it's similar to what Scotty and what others have described.

When I first noticed the lack of handling issues, I chalked it up to rider error and adapted my two wheeled riding style for the Spyder. I eased up on the grips, but after 2,000 miles, it's not a good ride on the highway.

Also, if you're riding with friends, they will not want to ride behind the RT as it displaces so much air, that it creates a buffeting situation for those riding behind the RT. Also, one friend who was riding behind me (before the buffeting got to him) commented that the Spyder's rear end was bouncing up and down like a 1960's Cadillac. Yes, the Dealer is aware of these issues and is doing their best to solve them, but they need some input from the factory that so far, has not yielded positive results. I've tried adjusting the rear shock both by adding/removing air pressure and with the dash controller and it still bounces.

Before you ask, I've tried every known combination of front shock absorber/tire pressure settings known to man and while it may ride okay for a very short period, it quickly goes back to feeling like I'm riding a bucking bronco. Allow me to add that during the first week of ownership, when I first noticed the problems riding at highway speeds (the speed limits here are 70 mph), I attempted to change the shock's settings. One side's adapter ring was so tight, I couldn't adjust it. So, I took it to the dealer and it broke off. The tech told me I had a bad shock, but the factory felt it was just a bad ring...and that's all that was replaced. Possibly all this can be cured by new shocks, but until the factory wants to try that, I'm stuck with what they tell the Dealer.

I've had two limp home situations over a ten day period and it's yet again in the shop. In fact, this trike has been in the shop so frequently that I've gotten to know the dealer's pickup/delivery person very well. I have a lot of confidence in my Dealership and would buy from them again, but it seems that the weak point is the factory identifying an owner's problems and providing a fix.

Yes, I've contacted the Spyder Team at BRP and have gotten nowhere with them other than being told to deal with the dealer. When I attempted to point out that I've read about other similar situations on this site, I was told not to believe everything I read online...really.

Please note that I'm not a rookie to the world of motorcycling and this is my 15th motorcycle (yes, I know it has three wheels!).

I have a nice, respectable relationship with my Dealer and when they picked it up this week, I requested they not return it until it's right. If they can't make it perform as the comfortable, stable touring bike that the factory promoted, to put it on the showroom floor and sell it. Sorry, but I'm getting tired of being a guinea pig for a product that can't cruise smoothly at reasonable touring speeds.

I've attempted to be realistic in my expectations for the Spyder RT and can only hope that the Factory and the Dealer can figure out what's wrong and either repair it to operate as promoted or to provide a painless method of allowing me to remove it from my garage.

I really wanted to like the RT as I truly enjoy it around town. But I purchased the RT to take trips on and if it can't be properly repaired to be somewhat smoother and more confident at 70 mph, I'll be telling her goodbye.

And, one more point, the cruising range on this touring machine is, IMHO, inadequate. I recently took a trip that had around an 80 mile stretch with no gas stations. It was strange to have to be seeking a gas station before and after that stretch while my friends with tour bikes had to wait for me while I re-fueled.

I've attempted to be honest in my assessments of the RT-S PE, and while there is much to like about it (around town handling, easy U-Turns, smooth transmission, decent audio system, good storage, etc.), that unstable feeling at highway speeds is a deal killer for me. After all, the RT is supposed to be a touring trike and highway speed handling is part of the equation that separates a street machine from a tourer.

[smokster]

Scotty, so sorry for your disappontment.

All that money not to be happy would just burn me up.
I always thought they should of taken alittle more time and get the GS to be the perfect machine by listening to us as riders for an extra year or to, then venture into the RT line.
This is what happens when people and companies spread themselves to thin and forget the big picture. The news can backfire, then what do you have?

I know when I sat on the RT, I was not comfortable at all, of course just my opinion... I love my GS after a few drawbacks. I hope in time the bugs will be worked out and you will love your RT, and be a happy rider again.

[NancysToy]

:wrong: I don't believe anyone who spend $25K on a brand spanking new bike should resort to trading their problems away because they happen to get a lemon with the luck of the draw. BRP need to be accountable for the issues they let pass the production line. Just like a previous poster said, if you spend money to fix issues that shouldn't be there in the first place, you are giving BRP a free pass and they will continue to pull stunt like this. Only when they are held accountable, will they attempt to make change and the end result will be better for ALL of us as well as the company itself.
Don't get your panties in a wad! You can handle things anyway you want to, when your time comes. I will handle things the way I want to. I like the RT, and I want to be riding one. If they can't or won't fix mine, I will find a way to do so. There is no reason for anyone to throw a fit. There is nobody to please here but me and my wife.

[M2Wild]

Don't get your panties in a wad! You can handle things anyway you want to, when your time comes. I will handle things the way I want to. I like the RT, and I want to be riding one. If they can't or won't fix mine, I will find a way to do so. There is no reason for anyone to throw a fit. There is nobody to please here but me and my wife.
Chill dude !!! This is not an attack on your approach to your problems at hand but rather my dismay at grives BRP has caused on their loyal customers. And it appears that there are a handful of others that BRP needs to please also.


While I'm not an avid poster, I have owned an RT-S PE since early January and personally, my experiences are similar to Scotty's.
Very level headed, unemotional write-up. Your expectation of your purchase is very reasonabe. Hope it eventually works out for you.

[Questions]

Another factor to throw in the mix is that I'm not a big guy. I weigh in at 150 lbs., and typically ride solo.

Could this be a reason for the unstable front handling and bouncy rear at highway speeds?

[BHawksworth]

My RT's both are smooth at highway speeds, unless there is heavy wind, then they do move about. I put that down to the huge surface area. I've felt it on two wheelers too, but they presented less surface area, and possibly the trike design has an impact too. I guess I just accept that as an aspect of the design. But, it may also be that yours is acting differently than mine, either because of settings, or some defect, or something. It's really hard to tell whether some of the opinions mostly relate to different expectations, or have to do with genuine differences between bikes. Either way, I hope you're able to get it to a point you can be happy with it.


While I'm not an avid poster, I have owned an RT-S PE since early January and personally, my experiences are similar to Scotty's.

In terms of the fit and finish, my RT came out of the box with a damaged passenger grab handle. That piece has yet to have been replaced. To be fair, when the Dealer told me last week that it hasn't yet arrived, I told them that we'll get it done when my riding season ends in a few months.

Yes, I have the bad gas gauge and brakes that squeak very loudly. I've also noticed the same poor braking characteristics that Scotty clearly pointed out. On my first service, the Dealer told me that there was (at that time) no fix for the gas gauge and that they'd monitor the brakes. (Not a warm and fuzzy feeling to have brakes that squeak and feel inadequate). For whatever reason, the brakes don't feel that they can stop the Spyder RT in an efficient manner.

Now the big thing...Highway Speed Handling:

We have to remember that the RT is billed as being a touring machine. If it was billed as an "around towner" or "bar hopper" my expectations would be reasonable, but it's not...it's a highway touring machine. Or at least, that's how it's promoted. Personally, I've been very disappointed with the Spyder's poor handling at more than 55 miles per hour. Add a bit of wind to the equation and it's more work than fun attempting to keep it running in a straight line. At times, it feels downright unstable when riding at highway speeds. The handling at speed feels as if there is absolutely no margin for error and it's similar to what Scotty and what others have described.

When I first noticed the lack of handling issues, I chalked it up to rider error and adapted my two wheeled riding style for the Spyder. I eased up on the grips, but after 2,000 miles, it's not a good ride on the highway.

Also, if you're riding with friends, they will not want to ride behind the RT as it displaces so much air, that it creates a buffeting situation for those riding behind the RT. Also, one friend who was riding behind me (before the buffeting got to him) commented that the Spyder's rear end was bouncing up and down like a 1960's Cadillac. Yes, the Dealer is aware of these issues and is doing their best to solve them, but they need some input from the factory that so far, has not yielded positive results. I've tried adjusting the rear shock both by adding/removing air pressure and with the dash controller and it still bounces.

Before you ask, I've tried every known combination of front shock absorber/tire pressure settings known to man and while it may ride okay for a very short period, it quickly goes back to feeling like I'm riding a bucking bronco. Allow me to add that during the first week of ownership, when I first noticed the problems riding at highway speeds (the speed limits here are 70 mph), I attempted to change the shock's settings. One side's adapter ring was so tight, I couldn't adjust it. So, I took it to the dealer and it broke off. The tech told me I had a bad shock, but the factory felt it was just a bad ring...and that's all that was replaced. Possibly all this can be cured by new shocks, but until the factory wants to try that, I'm stuck with what they tell the Dealer.

I've had two limp home situations over a ten day period and it's yet again in the shop. In fact, this trike has been in the shop so frequently that I've gotten to know the dealer's pickup/delivery person very well. I have a lot of confidence in my Dealership and would buy from them again, but it seems that the weak point is the factory identifying an owner's problems and providing a fix.

Yes, I've contacted the Spyder Team at BRP and have gotten nowhere with them other than being told to deal with the dealer. When I attempted to point out that I've read about other similar situations on this site, I was told not to believe everything I read online...really.

Please note that I'm not a rookie to the world of motorcycling and this is my 15th motorcycle (yes, I know it has three wheels!).

I have a nice, respectable relationship with my Dealer and when they picked it up this week, I requested they not return it until it's right. If they can't make it perform as the comfortable, stable touring bike that the factory promoted, to put it on the showroom floor and sell it. Sorry, but I'm getting tired of being a guinea pig for a product that can't cruise smoothly at reasonable touring speeds.

I've attempted to be realistic in my expectations for the Spyder RT and can only hope that the Factory and the Dealer can figure out what's wrong and either repair it to operate as promoted or to provide a painless method of allowing me to remove it from my garage.

I really wanted to like the RT as I truly enjoy it around town. But I purchased the RT to take trips on and if it can't be properly repaired to be somewhat smoother and more confident at 70 mph, I'll be telling her goodbye.

And, one more point, the cruising range on this touring machine is, IMHO, inadequate. I recently took a trip that had around an 80 mile stretch with no gas stations. It was strange to have to be seeking a gas station before and after that stretch while my friends with tour bikes had to wait for me while I re-fueled.

I've attempted to be honest in my assessments of the RT-S PE, and while there is much to like about it (around town handling, easy U-Turns, smooth transmission, decent audio system, good storage, etc.), that unstable feeling at highway speeds is a deal killer for me. After all, the RT is supposed to be a touring trike and highway speed handling is part of the equation that separates a street machine from a tourer.

[NancysToy]

My RT's both are smooth at highway speeds, unless there is heavy wind, then they do move about. I put that down to the huge surface area. I've felt it on two wheelers too, but they presented less surface area, and possibly the trike design has an impact too. I guess I just accept that as an aspect of the design. But, it may also be that yours is acting differently than mine, either because of settings, or some defect, or something. It's really hard to tell whether some of the opinions mostly relate to different expectations, or have to do with genuine differences between bikes. Either way, I hope you're able to get it to a point you can be happy with it.
It is encouraging to hear that there are RTs out there that are safe and stable at highway speeds. I had expected that from my demo rides, and was surprised by the bad manners my RTS and a few others have exhibited. Perhaps the difference is in small alignment variations, loose suspension parts, or some other small variable with large consequences. Let's all hope that the causes can be discovered and corrected in short order. I still have high hopes for the RT, and am certainly not ready to write it off yet, but it needs to learn some manners...and mine needs to learn how to stop when it is asked.

[BHawksworth]

The brakes are not great. No bite. Maybe a different pad will help.


It is encouraging to hear that there are RTs out there that are safe and stable at highway speeds. I had expected that from my demo rides, and was surprised by the bad manners my RTS and a few others have exhibited. Perhaps the difference is in small alignment variations, loose suspension parts, or some other small variable with large consequences. Let's all hope that the causes can be discovered and corrected in short order. I still have high hopes for the RT, and am certainly not ready to write it off yet, but it needs to learn some manners...and mine needs to learn how to stop when it is asked.

[NancysToy]

The brakes are not great. No bite. Maybe a different pad will help.
I took a close look at my rear brake, and the pads are not contacting the disc evenly, or in their entirety. I suspect an extremely hard pad material. Low brake pressure would also be a possibility, though. Not sure that there are a lot of alternatives. Curiously enough, the early 2010 RS Spyders used the same pads and calipers as the 2008 and 2009 models, but the parts fiche lists the late production units as having the same rear caliper as the RT, but a different pad set. The RT uses the newer rear caliper but the old pad set. Maybe BRP is discovering some difficulties.

[syclemom]

Have had none of the horrors I am hearing, 7200mi. and wife has none , totally stable at 95mph. pulling the trailer, she absolutley loves it, wish mileage was a little better, but nothing can t live with , hope everyones issues are resolved. I am a two wheel rider I have only ridden my wifes about ten miles total, is very sensitive steering to me, I was very unstable , twitchy at highway speeds, where as my wife is smooth as silk, I wonder how many are converted two wheelers , she has about 95000mi. on Trikes before this so I trust her opinion completely, she said took a little getting used to the power steering but now is awesome she rides it literally daily.

[docdoru]

Yes, I've contacted the Spyder Team at BRP... When I attempted to point out that I've read about other similar situations on this site, I was told not to believe everything I read online...really.
:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:... this is because they have a Non Disclosure Contract signed...:thumbup:

[NancysToy]

Have had none of the horrors I am hearing, 7200mi. and wife has none , totally stable at 95mph. pulling the trailer, she absolutley loves it, wish mileage was a little better, but nothing can t live with , hope everyones issues are resolved. I am a two wheel rider I have only ridden my wifes about ten miles total, is very sensitive steering to me, I was very unstable , twitchy at highway speeds, where as my wife is smooth as silk, I wonder how many are converted two wheelers , she has about 95000mi. on Trikes before this so I trust her opinion completely, she said took a little getting used to the power steering but now is awesome she rides it literally daily.
That's a pretty common problem for those just coming over from two wheels. It takes a conscious effort to learn to relax and to react to slight changes and handlebar wiggles the opposite way you did before...if you react at all. When Nancy first got her Spyder, I experienced the same thing. Now, with a few thousand Spyder miles, it feels natural to me...or it did until I rode my RTS. It is great to hear that many RTs are very stable. That means the rest can be fixed.

[syclemom]

I should say that I never got totally comfortable with her Goldwing Trikes either, I ride to work 80mi. a day yr. round since we live in the south and the transition is extreme , a man named O.D.that has rode trikes since they were invented, due to being disabled , due to being shot while a policeman once told me to stay off of her trikes because the transition from my everyday bike was hard to do safely, I trusted him and know it is different,Bless his soul he passed he was the owner of Marshall Tx. H&W Honda a well known trike builder. I wonder how many unsatisfied with stability are like me and need more time and miles, my wifes seems very good so far best of luck to others . Regarding the brakes, I wonder how many have gone to a parking lot and really tested their bikes I witnessed my wife bring her RTS & trailer to a panic stop thanks to a cage driver , it stopped FAST, Controlled and stable,She is small not overly strong on pedal, stop was excellent, take your machine to a parking lot and learn its handling and braking , ABS is different.

[Questions]

Originally Posted by PalmBeachRyder http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=191759#post191759)
Yes, I've contacted the Spyder Team at BRP... When I attempted to point out that I've read about other similar situations on this site, I was told not to believe everything I read online...really.



:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:... this is because they have a Non Disclosure Contract signed...:thumbup:

Let me be clear...that was told to me by Carlo...not by any of the Spyder 5.

[NancysToy]

I should say that I never got totally comfortable with her Goldwing Trikes either, I ride to work 80mi. a day yr. round since we live in the south and the transition is extreme , a man named O.D.that has rode trikes since they were invented, due to being disabled , due to being shot while a policeman once told me to stay off of her trikes because the transition from my everyday bike was hard to do safely, I trusted him and know it is different,Bless his soul he passed he was the owner of Marshall Tx. H&W Honda a well known trike builder. I wonder how many unsatisfied with stability are like me and need more time and miles, my wifes seems very good so far best of luck to others . Regarding the brakes, I wonder how many have gone to a parking lot and really tested their bikes I witnessed my wife bring her RTS & trailer to a panic stop thanks to a cage driver , it stopped FAST, Controlled and stable,She is small not overly strong on pedal, stop was excellent, take your machine to a parking lot and learn its handling and braking , ABS is different.
Good advice on the brake test in the parking lot, for any new ride. That is the part that worries me. I did exactly that. Mine takes at least three times the distance to stop in a panic stop as my wife's Spyder. No getting tossed over the handlebars on this one, even quite literally standing on the brake pedal. It has worse brakes than my 65 Triumph...but slightly better than my Honda SuperCub.

[Firefly]

Good advice on the brake test in the parking lot, for any new ride. That is the part that worries me. I did exactly that. Mine takes at least three times the distance to stop in a panic stop as my wife's Spyder. No getting tossed over the handlebars on this one, even quite literally standing on the brake pedal. It has worse brakes than my 65 Triumph...but slightly better than my Honda SuperCub.

That's just not right.

It would be nice if you could hook up with another RT owner that isn't having these problems--- swap bikes for 5 or 10 miles and see what you both felt during the ride.

[Mr.B]

Scotty,
You are a class act. Stay the course and stay true to your ethics. Looks like you have strong following here and if BRP is listening they should respect that.
As you know I picked up my RTS on Saturday, drove it 18 miles and ran to an issue "limp home" was the direction given by my new toy. On Monday my dealer picked up the RTS and they are working on the problem. I too plan to give them the opportunity to support me. I have faith that they will.

Lucky Baldwin:agree:
A follow up to the issue with my new RTS. My dealership picked it up and spent a couple of days trying to replicate the issue I had. They hooked it up to the computer, nothing, Tech took it out for 45 minutes on the road, nothing. They called BRP and through that discussion figured out the problem...ME!
Looks like I was riding the brake, sort of. On the RTS if you just put a little pressure on the brake enough so the brake light switch is engaged the computer looks to see if the brakes actually engaged. If you don't push the brake peddle down but only enough to turn on the brake lights the computer will eventually think there is a brake problem because the brakes never engaged and send you the alert and tell you to "Limp Home".
From the first time I test rode the RTS I felt like I might ride the brake based on foot position so their analysis rings true with me. I'm picking up my toy tomorrow morning and I'll give her a good testing to see if this is case. If it is I'll be relieved and suggest they cover this possibility when a customer picks up their bike. :opps:

[ThreeWheels]

NancysToy,

Brakes are fine.
No engine problems for me.
No problems with fit/finish
The bouncing gas gauge got fixed. The jury is out on the accuracy, although I tend to think the gauge is accurate, the range of the bike sucks.
MPG.......I'm up to about 27 with 89 Octane. Started out with 25 using 87 Octane. I'll start burning 93 Octane and report.
Fixed the Dion and the Belmonts problem, but you know that from a previous post.
I've got my Dowco Ultralite to fit the bike better than the Spyder cover.
My main problems now are with others. Waiting for my GPS bracket to come in, and waiting for the CB to be delivered.

I may be speaking out of turn, but it seems to me you'll be much happier when you get your handling issues straightened out and you can ride the bloody thing instead of looking at a $25,000 sculpture.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m6lymJy57E

Hope this helps.

[NancysToy]

Brakes are fine.
No engine problems for me.
No problems with fit/finish
The bouncing gas gauge got fixed. The jury is out on the accuracy, although I tend to think the gauge is accurate, the range of the bike sucks.
MPG.......I'm up to about 27 with 89 Octane. Started out with 25 using 87 Octane. I'll start burning 93 Octane and report.
Fixed the Dion and the Belmonts problem, but you know that from a previous post.
I've got my Dowco Ultralite to fit the bike better than the Spyder cover.

I may be speaking out of turn, but it seems to me you'll be much happier when you get your handling issues straightened out and you can ride the bloody thing instead of looking at a $25,000 sculpture.

Glad you are squared away. That gives me great hope. You are right, if I can get it to stop channeling Dion DiMucci, and get the thing to stop in something less than a city block, I will be happier. The other 20 items on the punch list are less important. I have never been afraid of a bike before, and that includes my fuel bike after a speed wobble dumped me on the long end of the drag strip at over 150 mph! I don't like being timid around one that can't even fall over, for crying out loud. I'll press for an alignment next week, have a brake pressure test done, and buy some EBC pads, and maybe we can start to get some serious miles on this thing. :D

[NancysToy]

Does the dealer do the fluid filling on these bikes??? Were those brakes bled properly??? This story will be interesting when it climaxes at the end------keep us tuned in here. (This story mirrors my Polaris sled of 2007)
Dealers do not fill the brake fluid, as far as I know. The brakes do not feel soft, like they need to be bled, just the opposite. Dealer is going to perform brake pressure test and inspect them next week. There are actually several possible causes, so I won't jump to conclusions until we can run some tests and inspect a few components.

I made arrangements this morning for the dealer to address the main issues here, even a few miles before my 625 mile service. I was going to kill both birds with one stone, but decided the safety issues could not wait, and I did not want to ride the remaining few miles this way. I was pretty impressed when I found out that without even hearing directly from me, Carlo had already contacted them and told them to take good care of me. Thanks Carlo! I'll take it in today or Monday, for them to look at early next week. They have already put an alignment on their list. I'll let you know how things come out.

[dltang]

Dealers do not fill the brake fluid, as far as I know. The brakes do not feel soft, like they need to be bled, just the opposite. Dealer is going to perform brake pressure test and inspect them next week. There are actually several possible causes, so I won't jump to conclusions until we can run some tests and inspect a few components.

I made arrangements this morning for the dealer to address the main issues here, even a few miles before my 625 mile service. I was going to kill both birds with one stone, but decided the safety issues could not wait, and I did not want to ride the remaining few miles this way. I was pretty impressed when I found out that without even hearing directly from me, Carlo had already contacted them and told them to take good care of me. Thanks Carlo! I'll take it in today or Monday, for them to look at early next week. They have already put an alignment on their list. I'll let you know how things come out.
Very happy for you Scotty, I hope this turns out all for the positive and they are able to make all the necessary corrections needed to make your RT the spyder you hoped it would be. Carlo seems to really be on top of things to the best of his ability.

[skypup]

I have been struggling about whether or not to write this post. I am doing it to hope I will start to feel better. I am becoming increasingly disappointed and disillusioned with my RT, now that I have been able to start riding it. There is plenty good about it, but the bad things and the little nuisances are bothering me no end. Yesterday I rode my BMW for the first time this year, and it put my feelings in perspective. There is no hiding my disappointment.

OK, why? Well, first there is the lack of quality control in a high end (and high dollar) vehicle. Paint runs, bubbles, and abundant orange peel do not belong on a limited edition vehicle. Then there is the gauge light that repeatedly refuses to work. Of course the gas gauge bounces half the scale, buries itself at the bottom before the low fuel warning comes on, and is generally useless, so I suppose having no light may be a blessing in disguise. Even the PE number embroidery is not up to snuff, with uneven stitching that makes the "#0150" appear to say "#0450".

The Spyder ate a spark plug the very first day. It continues to do so. Hard starting, plug fouling, misfiring at highway speeds...and a response from the tech to "never start it unless you are going to ride it", and advice to carry extra plugs. Toss in the very poor mileage, and horsepower on the MCO that does not match the advertising, and my face gets longer.

The last straw has been the hideous handling. I knew from some demo rides that the RT tended to dive into turns, and that it wallowed a bit. I was not prepared for how unpredictable this was. I have to be paying close attention every single second, just to avoid running off the road. I have thousands of Spyder miles under my belt, but this is a vastly different beast...and it saddens me. The idea was to have a stable vehicle that handled well under adverse conditions, and was relaxing to ride, like our RS, but more comfortable. Highway miles with this wobbly monster are a chore, and riding behind a semi is as scary as anything I have ever done...and I have done a lot of scary things. The last straw was having the handling deteriorate when we rode two-up, and having it be so noticeable that my wife asked if I was having handling problems because of her.

I am hoping some of these things can be worked out without throwing good money after bad. I have increased the tire air pressure to no avail. I will set up the shocks to max, but I don't know if it will help much more. I have to check the toe-in, but it is not visibly bad. I will also have to check all the suspension components for looseness. The RTS will eventually require a paint job. Disappointing to throw that kind of dough at a new vehicle. The jury is still out on the misfire, I will give the dealer another chance to address it. If I can cure it somehow, it should help the mileage. The gauges will be removed and I will revert to the digitals...sad waste of money. I bought this to be a highway vehicle. If it turns into a ride-around-town toy, it will go to the back of the garage...and likely rot there. Too bad, there was great potential here, but the execution leaves much to be desired. This is without a doubt the most comfortable motorcycle I have ever ridden...bar none. Comfort can't be coupled with poor workmanship, poor performance, and bad handling, however. For now, Nancy's RS and my Beemer will continue to be the rides of choice.


My wife and I drive RS's. We are planning on getting an RT. I had an opportunity to drive the dealer's RT about 300 miles a few weeks ago. We went there today and drove a paddle version. We went on two 18 mile test drives with varied speeds and terrain. We took turns riding and driving. We found that setting the suspension at the half way mark worked best for us. I can say that we have read complaints concerning handling issues and don't understand. Our experiences have been positive. We're wondering what percentage of people are having issues before we buy ours.

[Wheeler~]

My wife and I drive RS's. We are planning on getting an RT. I had an opportunity to drive the dealer's RT about 300 miles a few weeks ago. We went there today and drove a paddle version. We went on two 18 mile test drives on varied speeds and terrain. We took turns riding and driving. We found that setting the suspension at the half way mark worked best for us. I can say that we have read complaints concerning handling issues and don't understand. Our experiences have been positive. We're wondering what percentage of people are having issues before we buy ours.
I think you're going to have a tough time judging what that percentage is. People usually respond to those posts that address them personally. I hope you get what you're seeking but think if you ask that in a post dedicated to problems, the replies will come from those with problems. I personally LOVE MY SPYDER even with the couple of problems I'm experiencing.

[skypup]

I think you're going to have a tough time judging what that percentage is. People usually respond to those posts that address them personally. I hope you get what you're seeking but think if you ask that in a post dedicated to problems, the replies will come from those with problems. I personally LOVE MY SPYDER even with the couple of problems I'm experiencing.

I'm sure we will love it too. We're really fond of our RS's. My dealer said that people are experiencing problems with the ride due to not being set up properly before delivery.

[mxz600]

I made arrangements this morning for the dealer to address the main issues here, even a few miles before my 625 mile service. I was going to kill both birds with one stone, but decided the safety issues could not wait, and I did not want to ride the remaining few miles this way. I was pretty impressed when I found out that without even hearing directly from me, Carlo had already contacted them and told them to take good care of me. Thanks Carlo! I'll take it in today or Monday, for them to look at early next week. They have already put an alignment on their list. I'll let you know how things come out.
I must of just missed you today Scotty. I was at the dealer around 3:30 to pick up my Spyder and I saw your RT sitting outside. By the time I got done in the parts department they had put her inside. I do hope they can get everything taken care of and you end up with the machine you thought you were getting in the first place.

[NancysToy]

I'm sure we will love it too. We're really fond of our RS's. My dealer said that people are experiencing problems with the ride due to not being set up properly before delivery.
I disagree, respectfully. The alignment is done at the factory, and has nothing to do with dealer setup. The normal suspension setting is mid-way (3) from the factory, but your dealer can set it where you ask...or you can do it yourself. Even set to the top, with my 180 pounds, mine still wanders all over the road. If you get one, and it isn't right, you will know it. Have the dealer address it then. Not being able to ride for several months, after mine arrived during a Michigan winter, slowed down my ability to find the problems and get them taken care of.

[NancysToy]

I must of just missed you today Scotty. I was at the dealer around 3:30 to pick up my Spyder and I saw your RT sitting outside. By the time I got done in the parts department they had put her inside. I do hope they can get everything taken care of and you end up with the machine you thought you were getting in the first place.
Sorry we missed you. Never went inside the main building. Found a couple more issues on the way over, believe it or not. Sounds like they are devoting a major effort to taking care of things. That pleases me! :D

[skypup]

I disagree, respectfully. The alignment is done at the factory, and has nothing to do with dealer setup. The normal suspension setting is mid-way (3) from the factory, but your dealer can set it where you ask...or you can do it yourself. Even set to the top, with my 180 pounds, mine still wanders all over the road. If you get one, and it isn't right, you will know it. Have the dealer address it then. Not being able to ride for several months, after mine arrived during a Michigan winter, slowed down my ability to find the problems and get them taken care of.

I'll definitely do that. I had two issues with my sport bike involving creep and very squeaky brakes. After reading my comments on this board Carlos called me at home and assisted in resolving the issues. A clutch was replaced in my transmission and new brake pads installed. Result, issues are resolved. My wife and I are very fortunate to have found a great dealer who really cares (husband and wife team). We will be on a group ride with them tomorrow for some BBQ. Here in Texas, that's a good thing.
BRP and the dealer have showed us a reason to trust them and we will continue to do buisness with them. We love the "thinking outside of the box" in the design concepts and technology which BRP has demonstrated. All machines have issues. These machines :yes:can only get better with time and we decided the time is now.

[westgl]

You may Have tried this already,

Jack the front end up, get at least one front wheel off the ground.

I have been wanting to do this with mine.

Grab the front wheel, (Once you have it in the air) one hand on the top of the wheel/tire, and one on the bottom then try to rock the wheel back & fourth or Up & down to see if there is any play.

Then grab the same wheel by the front of the wheel, and the back of the wheel, see if there is any play this way as well.

Then check all steering linkages for play

The RT-S comes with a swaybar maybe check that linkage as well.

Just a thought,

Westgl

[widowmaker2011]

Sorry we missed you. Never went inside the main building. Found a couple more issues on the way over, believe it or not. Sounds like they are devoting a major effort to taking care of things. That pleases me! :D
Scotty , haven't been around and didn't notice this thread. We had 2 2009 machines wander horrible and after tons of diagnosing and fiddling with toe, we found the control arm bushings were way way too tight and were almost frozen from the factory. New bushings and life was good.
Just a thought.

[NancysToy]

Scotty , haven't been around and didn't notice this thread. We had 2 2009 machines wander horrible and after tons of diagnosing and fiddling with toe, we found the control arm bushings were way way too tight and were almost frozen from the factory. New bushings and life was good.
Just a thought.
Thanks for another possibility. If the find the toe-in correct, and nothing loose, I'll have them check this. Odd, tight parts usually don't cause wandering.

[vendit]

Scotty,
I surely hope that your dealer can diagnose and repair your new ride correctly and efficiently! I seriously considered buying mine from this same dealer last spring, because I was impresed with their knowledge of the Spyder as well as they seemed to be pretty decent people! I ended up at another dealer that was closer to home, in case of service, etc.
I actually took a test ride on one of their demos last May. They have a nice "test track" on the roads around the dealership.

I am sure we all will be interested to hear what you find out. Hope all goes well for you, and that you can be enjoying your new ride and feel safe and confident when riding it.

Mike

[SPIIDR]

Hi

Just thought i would write this. Yesterday here in Australia(Melbourne) was a mild sunny day with winds of about 40KM to 50KM so i took the RT out for a 350KM ride to Lorne witch included Highway and A few Twisties on the Great Ocean Road. As i posted in a earlier post i have had my front suspenssion adjusted to the highest setting and 22 pond pressure in the front tyers. We rode two up and at speed of 100KM to 120Km with head wind and cross wind. I must say that the Rt peformed very well for the conditions still a bit of movement but you would except this in these conditions i think that even a small car would get pushed around in these condition as well. I must say that you have to be a lot more relaxed riding the RT and learn its limitations i have also found that in windy conditions having the winscreen all the way down makes a lot of difference. I do feel for you Mate and i think that the problem is with your RT now and i hope that BRP will come to the rescue. Having said that i do also think that a sway bar will help a great deal if one comes out please let us know and good luck hope you get on the road soon.

[skypup]

I'd like to comment again also. Yesterday my wife and I rode with 13 or so spyders and 20 individuals. We drove 188 miles up to 75 mph. We had HEAVY winds here yesterday. You could feel the winds moving you but the bikes held solid. We had two RT's directly infront of us, we were numbers 5 and 6 in our convoy. With two way communications (cardo bluetooth) my wife and I could comment to each other about the RT's performance. The riders themselves never expressed performance concerns and the bikes seemed to hold the road very well with little to no unsteadiness under the conditions. The main thing we observed was the up and down undulations on the RT's which helps to explain their cushier ride. This is a pic of our group yesterday and our RT test drive video on Saturday.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H2ta1x2Y14

[2Gunns]

I am the manager of a manufacturing facility, not BRP, but I know a thing or two about quality control. I've spent years in a tireless effort towards continuous improvement. Last year, my facilty achieved a 98.5% QC efficiency rating, the highest ever in the company. While I'm extremely proud of my employees for this accomplishment, it still drives me nuts that 1.5% of the product leaving my plant is being rejected by the customer. The only way I have been able to accept this is by acknowledging the fact that "Stuff happens"! Not excusing, just accepting the reality that unless your initials are JC and you can walk on water, perfection is just out of the grasp of man.

Scotty's case is obviously an extreme…. I don't think he got the "last unit out the door on Friday afternoon", it's more like "the weekend cleanup crew decided to have a go on the assembly line".

I'm glad to see that BRP and his Dealer are working with him to resolve these issues and if they can not, I would expect them to replace his RT with a new unit. It has been said on this forum "there is no excuse for this on a $25K bike" and while that is a true statement, it's how BRP handles those that slip through the crack, which will be the tell-all of the company's integrity.

[Wheeler~]

I am the manager of a manufacturing facility, not BRP, but I know a thing or two about quality control. I've spent years in a tireless effort towards continuous improvement. Last year, my facilty achieved a 98.5% QC efficiency rating, the highest ever in the company. While I'm extremely proud of my employees for this accomplishment, it still drives me nuts that 1.5% of the product leaving my plant is being rejected by the customer. The only way I have been able to accept this is by acknowledging the fact that "Stuff happens"! Not excusing, just accepting the reality that unless your initials are JC and you can walk on water, perfection is just out of the grasp of man.

Scotty's case is obviously an extreme…. I don't think he got the "last unit out the door on Friday afternoon", it's more like "the weekend cleanup crew decided to have a go on the assembly line".

I'm glad to see that BRP and his Dealer are working with him to resolve these issues and if they can not, I would expect them to replace his RT with a new unit. It has been said on this forum "there is no excuse for this on a $25K bike" and while that is a true statement, it's how BRP handles those that slip through the crack, which will be the tell-all of the company's integrity.


:thumbup:

[skypup]

I am the manager of a manufacturing facility, not BRP, but I know a thing or two about quality control. I've spent years in a tireless effort towards continuous improvement. Last year, my facilty achieved a 98.5% QC efficiency rating, the highest ever in the company. While I'm extremely proud of my employees for this accomplishment, it still drives me nuts that 1.5% of the product leaving my plant is being rejected by the customer. The only way I have been able to accept this is by acknowledging the fact that "Stuff happens"! Not excusing, just accepting the reality that unless your initials are JC and you can walk on water, perfection is just out of the grasp of man.

Scotty's case is obviously an extreme…. I don't think he got the "last unit out the door on Friday afternoon", it's more like "the weekend cleanup crew decided to have a go on the assembly line".

I'm glad to see that BRP and his Dealer are working with him to resolve these issues and if they can not, I would expect them to replace his RT with a new unit. It has been said on this forum "there is no excuse for this on a $25K bike" and while that is a true statement, it's how BRP handles those that slip through the crack, which will be the tell-all of the company's integrity.


I agree. I worked as a production supervisor in the auto industry. QC and production rates are in direct oppostion. The problem for the manufacturer of any product is to strive for 100% QC and get the product to the customer on time. It is a fine balancing act. I had a department which manufactured the electronics for the SIR ie airbags. We needed to assure that these things would not fail. Even at .5% failure rate when you consider the numbers made, the liability would be tremendous. There will be some problems due to machines and people errors. It's the nature of the beast. The most telling signal that you are working with a good company is that they address issues when they come up. Just my 2 cents.

[Gordy]

message for nancys toy I was out ryding my rts today and thinking about the trouble you are having with your steering.My rts is steering better all the time today it was fantastic.I believe you might have a tight ball joint or tie rod end on yours and the steering just stays where you point it.Having worked on steering for a few years I have seen this before hope this is some help. Gord

[NancysToy]

message for nancys toy I was out ryding my rts today and thinking about the trouble you are having with your steering.My rts is steering better all the time today it was fantastic.I believe you might have a tight ball joint or tie rod end on yours and the steering just stays where you point it.Having worked on steering for a few years I have seen this before hope this is some help. Gord
Actually, Gordy, it is probably the opposite, if it isn't just inadequate toe-in. It wanders all over. I wish it would stay where it was pointed! It is encouraging to know that not all are like this, though. Thanks for the comments.

[Wheeler~]

Actually, Gordy, it is probably the opposite, if it isn't just inadequate toe-in. It wanders all over. I wish it would stay where it was pointed! It is encouraging to know that not all are like this, though. Thanks for the comments.

To see if I was experiencing any of your problems today, at 70 mph I took both hands off the handle bars, while in cruise control, and my RT-S stayed true to the road. Didn't wander at all. Hopefully this is further proof your issue is not the norm. Are we on the same page?

[skypup]

Actually, Gordy, it is probably the opposite, if it isn't just inadequate toe-in. It wanders all over. I wish it would stay where it was pointed! It is encouraging to know that not all are like this, though. Thanks for the comments.

I picked up our new RT today. Got to drive it 38 miles on two interstates, I 35 and I 410. The wind was really blowing hard again with a front moving through. I had no handling problems. It is more sensitive to the touch and it turns better at low speeds than my rs did. I use to fly and got to thinking about a phenomena in aviation called PIO's or pilot induced oscillations. Basically, the airplane pitches up and stalls and the nose drops. The pilot pulls back harder to correct and the plane stalls even quicker and harder. This cycle continues without ever getting resolved and there is a crash. I was told by BRP when I took a spyder test ride that people have a tendency to overcontrol in the beginning. I noticed being tense in the beginning and the bike WAS harder to control. Once I could relax my arms the bike smoothed out. Just an unproven theory of mine but there may be something to it.

[NancysToy]

I picked up our new RT today. Got to drive it 38 miles on two interstates, I 35 and I 410. The wind was really blowing hard again with a front moving through. I had no handling problems. It is more sensitive to the touch and it turns better at low speeds than my rs did. I use to fly and got to thinking about a phenomena in aviation called PIO's or pilot induced oscillations. Basically, the airplane pitches up and stalls and the nose drops. The pilot pulls back harder to correct and the plane stalls even quicker and harder. This cycle continues without ever getting resolved and there is a crash. I was told by BRP when I took a spyder test ride that people have a tendency to overcontrol in the beginning. I noticed being tense in the beginning and the bike WAS harder to control. Once I could relax my arms the bike smoothed out. Just an unproven theory of mine but there may be something to it.
The phenomenon you are talking about is common with the Spyder. It is exactly what you theorized. I experienced it two years ago when I first rode a Spyder, and many others have too. A relaxed grip on the handlebars makes it go away.....if your Spyder handles normally. Unfortunately, mine does not! I will be very thankful after it is repaired. One reason I bought it was that the relaxed handling of Nancy's RS spoiled me.

[Wheeler~]

I picked up our new RT today. Got to drive it 38 miles on two interstates, I 35 and I 410. The wind was really blowing hard again with a front moving through. I had no handling problems. It is more sensitive to the touch and it turns better at low speeds than my rs did. I use to fly and got to thinking about a phenomena in aviation called PIO's or pilot induced oscillations. Basically, the airplane pitches up and stalls and the nose drops. The pilot pulls back harder to correct and the plane stalls even quicker and harder. This cycle continues without ever getting resolved and there is a crash. I was told by BRP when I took a spyder test ride that people have a tendency to overcontrol in the beginning. I noticed being tense in the beginning and the bike WAS harder to control. Once I could relax my arms the bike smoothed out. Just an unproven theory of mine but there may be something to it.

:congrats: and welcome
Keep the tyre side down, ryde hard but ryde safe!

[ThreeWheels]

Further update on the handling:

I got the bike with 14 psi in the front tires. It had a real wiggly ride. Everyone here said pump up the tire pressure, so I did.

I had an opportunity to ride the Demo at Gargano's and it handled very well, much better than my bike.

They checked the alignment and repaired the toe out, putting in a very small amount of toe in to stabilize the bike. Much better ride, but still not as good as I wanted.

My hat's off to Gargano's, they didn't give up.

This morning I went out for a ride with them. I rode my bike, they rode their demo.

A little way out, we swapped bikes. The Demo still had better handling.

We stopped and checked my tire pressure. Before the alignment I had put 27 PSI in the front tires to get them as stiff as possible to stop the wiggle.

NOW, the pressure was too high. The tire patch was too rounded. Dropped the pressure down to 21 PSI. An improvement. Dropped the pressure again to 17 PSI, and it's a whole new bike. Much more stable. I may drop the pressure down a few more pounds, back down to 14.

Net Net, I'm feeling pretty good about things now. If I can only get the damn seagulls from crapping on the bike. They're rats with wings.

[8 Legged Freak]

IMHO, I get a better ride at 17 psi than 14 psi.

just my opin. :chat:

[NancysToy]

Further update on the handling:

I got the bike with 14 psi in the front tires. It had a real wiggly ride. Everyone here said pump up the tire pressure, so I did.

I had an opportunity to ride the Demo at Gargano's and it handled very well, much better than my bike.

They checked the alignment and repaired the toe out, putting in a very small amount of toe in to stabilize the bike. Much better ride, but still not as good as I wanted.

My hat's off to Gargano's, they didn't give up.

This morning I went out for a ride with them. I rode my bike, they rode their demo.

A little way out, we swapped bikes. The Demo still had better handling.

We stopped and checked my tire pressure. Before the alignment I had put 27 PSI in the front tires to get them as stiff as possible to stop the wiggle.

NOW, the pressure was too high. The tire patch was too rounded. Dropped the pressure down to 21 PSI. An improvement. Dropped the pressure again to 17 PSI, and it's a whole new bike. Much more stable. I may drop the pressure down a few more pounds, back down to 14.

Net Net, I'm feeling pretty good about things now. If I can only get the damn seagulls from crapping on the bike. They're rats with wings.
I would not recommend 14 psi. It is less than the minimum pressure listed on the tire sidewall.

[reconspyder]

I couldn't agree more with Nancy's toy!! I have RT-S #230 and it for lack of a better word is very dissapointing!! Anyone want to buy an RT limited?

[ThreeWheels]

I would not recommend 14 psi. It is less than the minimum pressure listed on the tire sidewall.

I know, but it's also a car tire, and the RT weight is so little compared to a car.
I'm not saying 14 is the right number, just that there is room for optimizing the tire pressure. The main point is, I'm now looking at tire pressure instead of mechanical adjustments to the suspension.
On the other hand, I just came back from a two-up ride, with the tires still at 17, it was a wonderful thing.
So I just need to hone in on the right tire pressure, if I'm not there already.

Of course, if I used Nitrogen, then all my tire problems would go away..............................................

[jedd]

Scotty, just read the whole thread and thinking of quality control. BRP has had issues with this on and off for years in sleds then watercraft. It got much better in the turn of the century if memory serves me right, a man named Pierre was CEO at that time and return to quality was his mission. Now BRP has re-organized again in recent history with the splitting of the company, and quality, fit and finish in all BRP products is suffering again I hear horror stories from both sled and watercraft owners. My point is I've seen this cycle before, and with excellent posts like yours, and the help of great people who care like Carlo, I am hopeful BRP will make needed changes to be a World Class Manufacturer of recreational products once again. Very best of luck to you and hope your:spyder2:is repaired expeditiously.

Jim:thumbup:

[BajaRon]

How's this for a wisper? :D


MM

Amazing! Somehow I never associated NMN with wisper...:D

[BajaRon]

Wow Scotty! I'm really sorry to hear this. It has to be 'Luck of the Draw'.

The only personal experience I've had with the RT is Lamont's but many seem to be very happy with theirs.

I can tell you Lamont rides his hard and has not complained about handling (other than the stock front shock setting which he detested). He maxed out the front shocks right after he got it and that seemed to work pretty well for him.

I'm sure everyone understands that the RT is not going to handle as well as the RS. Still, it should hold the road pretty well.

Now Lamont is running the Elka's and that gave him even more improvement. But you shouldn't have to install racing shocks to get reasonable handling from the RT.

Your tech's advise of "never start it unless you are going to ride it", and to "carry extra plugs" is ludicrous! How to these people say things like this with a straight face? I haven’t had to follow this advise since I owned a 1970 Kawasaki 500 triple! And that was a carburated 2 stroke! Give me a break!

I think the suggestion that they changed only the offending plug may be accurate and that is what caused the repeat issue. A 2010, fuel injected machine should NOT have plug fouling issues.

I would say the gauges, panel lights, handling and fouling are all correctable issues. With many RT owners being happy with handling it must be something out of sorts with yours.

The paint quality is another matter but it wouldn’t hurt to pursue that as well. Either a repaint or maybe some money back so you can get it painted would be in order.

You paid for a new, well made machine. It is up to BRP to deliver the promised product. I wish it were as simple as that.

I agree with you on the potential of the RT. If you can get it right (or even close) it should be a very sweet ride.

[sts]

Nancy toy I am not sure if anyone mentioned this as this thread is very long. There is a new Part out for the GAS GAUAGE issue. I had the problem with my demo and a few customers. but all are fixed and working great. Have your dealer call Tech support and they will give them the new part number. Very easy fix. Not sure about your other issues seems like you have done everything to try to fix it. Just have not experienced that at all with the few I have driven.

[NancysToy]

Nancy toy I am not sure if anyone mentioned this as this thread is very long. There is a new Part out for the GAS GAUAGE issue. I had the problem with my demo and a few customers. but all are fixed and working great. Have your dealer call Tech support and they will give them the new part number. Very easy fix. Not sure about your other issues seems like you have done everything to try to fix it. Just have not experienced that at all with the few I have driven.
Carlo told the dealer of the problem with the early gas gauges and the revised part, and they have notified me that they have ordered it. They needed a new one just for the burned out light, since BRP doesn't list the (LED?) bulb separately.

[SPYDERGUY1]

last weekend during my first 315km ride WHOOOOO HOOOOO, I actually ran into a new rt/rs owner, sorry not sure which. His concerns were exactly whay you folk are posting. He claims way too much wobble on the highway due to the bags and exteremely decreased cornering on this unit, he was having a bad day so did not want to press the issue. I have yet to take a test blast on the new unit , however will advise my findings in the next couple of weeks.:dontknow:

[SPYDERGUY1]

before you all start, we met at a road side campsite/picnic area, thanks. I stopped first and along came the spyder............:lecturef_smilie:

[docdoru]

He claims way too much wobble on the highway due to the bags and exteremely decreased cornering on this unit, he was having a bad day so did not want to press the issue. :dontknow:
With the Corbin saddlebags actually the RS gain stability on the highway at three digits speed. :doorag:

[ThreeWheels]

Scotty (may I call you that ?)

Did 362 miles last Saturday, two up. I cannot keep up with sportbikes, but that's OK.

After the front end alignment, with 17 psi in the tires, everything ran way OK.

Having shared some of your very same issues, I will tell you categorically, that the handling CAN be fixed. I can't swear that they will, but it IS possible.
There seems to have been a rash of badly aligned vehicles. I just wonder how many of us out there that have said "You need to get used to it" or "It's a different ride" or "You need seat time" or or "Higher Tire Pressure" or those looking to improve the ride with different tires, are actually suffering from poor alignment.

[Vordak]

Going back to the OP, I think a lot of his issues are probably related to poor/defective dealer prep. Seems to be a common issue.

V.

[docdoru]

Going back to the OP, I think a lot of his issues are probably related to poor/defective dealer prep. Seems to be a common issue. V.
welcome

[NancysToy]

Going back to the OP, I think a lot of his issues are probably related to poor/defective dealer prep. Seems to be a common issue.

V.
Actually, very few are associated with the dealer prep process, and I took care of those booboos. The alignment is done at the factory. The engine comes ready to run, and the dealer couldn't change the timing or fuel mixture, anyway. The brakes also have nothing to do with the dealer. Same for paint and seat defects, bad gauges, bad light assemblies, etc. Maybe some of these things could be caught by careful inspection during prep, but they are certainly not a result of it.

[Vordak]

That kind of what I meant. A good dealer should've picked the paint flaws and poor handling. I'm sorry you are having issues, I hope mine is fine...


V.

[NancysToy]

That kind of what I meant. A good dealer should've picked the paint flaws and poor handling. I'm sorry you are having issues, I hope mine is fine...


V.
Dealer wouldn't have picked up the poor handling, it was the middle of a Michigan winter. I didn't even catch it until it was Spring, and I started to ride, and even then it wasn't until it was broken in enough to hit the highway that I noticed it was severe. They don't test drive these things. Ours were both delivered with less than one mile on the odo, as it should be. I hope yours is fine, too. Mine certainly seems to be the exception.

BTW, welcome.

[vendit]

Hey Scotty,
Just curious how your dealer is coming along on your RT? Are they making any progress on your list?
Hope things are progressing for you and the dealer. You are a valuable and very knowledgable owner/rider on this forum, and because of you, many people including myself have been able to solve other problems with their spyders. I hope that they are able to diagnose and repair your RT to your satisfaction in a short time.

Keep the faith.......hopefully BRP will step up to the plate, and make it right for you!

Have a great Day!

Mike

[Wheeler~]

Hey Scotty,
Just curious how your dealer is coming along on your RT? Are they making any progress on your list?
Hope things are progressing for you and the dealer. You are a valuable and very knowledgable owner/rider on this forum, and because of you, many people including myself have been able to solve other problems with their spyders. I hope that they are able to diagnose and repair your RT to your satisfaction in a short time.

Keep the faith.......hopefully BRP will step up to the plate, and make it right for you!

Have a great Day!

Mike

:agree: :2thumbs:

[mdminc]

Scotty...saw this on another site and thought of you.

spyder rt performance sway bar - looking for installers

http://www.spydertalk.com/forums/topic/11914-spyder-rt-performance-sway-bar/

[Wheeler~]

Sounds like a perfect opportunity Scotty. You should be compensated somehow and a free swaybar sounds fair to me. I'm sure many of us would be interested in your findings and the results of the different bar. I hope you consider this and they realize the value of your input.

[NancysToy]

Scotty...saw this on another site and thought of you.

spyder rt performance sway bar - looking for installers

http://www.spydertalk.com/forums/topic/11914-spyder-rt-performance-sway-bar/


Sounds like a perfect opportunity Scotty. You should be compensated somehow and a free swaybar sounds fair to me. I'm sure many of us would be interested in your findings and the results of the different bar. I hope you consider this and they realize the value of your input.
Sorry, I don't think I meet the criteria. They are looking for the average installer. I am probably not that guy. Also, there is a time-frame problem. I have no idea when I will get my RTS back, and I think they are interested in someone ASAP. Too bad, freebies are neat!

When and if my Spyder is ever made safe to ride, I will get a sway bar to improve the handling even more. You can be sure I will report my results if I do.

[Bootie]

The handling and the lack of brakes need to be addressed before this thing can be considered to be even remotely "road-worthy".
Scotty,
The brakes on my RT were not too good at first but now I have a little over 500 mi on the trike and the brakes seem fine. Could that be the problem with your RT, you just haven't ridden it enough.
I've also noticed that the fuel consumption improved on mine from 25mpg to over 30mpg and still improving during the break-in period.
Mine wallows a little bit and I will adjust the front shocks and see if that helps.

Bruce

[NancysToy]

Scotty,
The brakes on my RT were not too good at first but now I have a little over 500 mi on the trike and the brakes seem fine. Could that be the problem with your RT, you just haven't ridden it enough.
I've also noticed that the fuel consumption improved on mine from 25mpg to over 30mpg and still improving during the break-in period.
Mine wallows a little bit and I will adjust the front shocks and see if that helps.

Bruce
My brakes have gone the other way. Seemingly adequate at first (although they were never used hard), but failing fast as the miles (or load) increase. Takes three times the distance my wife's Spyder GS does to stop...I tested it. My mileage has improved a bit, too. Haven't broken 30 in 600 miles, though.

[Lamonster]

My brakes have gone the other way. Seemingly adequate at first (although they were never used hard), but failing fast as the miles (or load) increase. Takes three times the distance my wife's Spyder GS does to stop...I tested it. My mileage has improved a bit, too. Haven't broken 30 in 600 miles, though.
I wish I was closer to you because I would love to see what you're talking about. I've had to do many panic stops on my RT and I can't say if it's the same as my RS but I have plenty of braking power and there is no way it takes 3 times the stopping distance as my RS. Your pads could be glazed over I guess but a good 50mph stomping on the brakes should fix that.

By the way I drove over the Grapevine yesterday and the high wind warning signs were flashing the whole way and the RT did fine, no worst than the cars and trucks on the road. Besides the wind it was one of the most relaxing rides I've had going from Hemet to Hollester.:doorag:

[ThreeWheels]

Nancy's Toy

Not to flog a dead horse, but.................

How is it going ? Did you ever get your Spyder out of the dealer ?

Any updates on the brakes and other handling issues ?

[NancysToy]

Nancy's Toy

Not to flog a dead horse, but.................

How is it going ? Did you ever get your Spyder out of the dealer ?

Any updates on the brakes and other handling issues ?
Spyder still at dealer, tech is stumped, BRP took eight days to get back to him with some suggestions. Fuel gauge backordered. Tech has never done an alignment before. I have a bad feeling about this! Anyway, I don't expect to see the RTS again for at least a couple more weeks...if not a month. On the bright side, my trailer hitch finally came in. Now if I only had something to put it on. By the time I install that and get them to do the 600 mile service, it may be Memorial Day.

[westgl]

Well at least when you get it back, the weather will be nice, warm, and time to ride.

Hope you get it back soon.

Westgl

[Wheeler~]

I admire you Scotty, after all you've gone through, you can still find the bright side. I busted a gut when you posted that!:roflblack:

[Questions]

My 2009 roadster misfires also and once when I came to a stop it totally cut out and then revved back to life, and I was in first gear and it leaped forward. Scary. They said that the idle was not set high enough, so the mechanics changed that. Unfortunately it doesn't die out at the stop anymore but misfires when I change gears. I have had it into the shop twice now but they claim that it doesn't happen with them. It usually misfires when I have ridden it for a few miles, (maybe 50 at the most). I don't like the idle set this high, it is scary when after riding a few miles the idle is still running about 2800 rpms and I have to keep my foot on the brake hard. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love my Spyder but I am concerned that with the Rpms running this high something is wrong somewhere.

[WaltH]

My 2009 roadster misfires also and once when I came to a stop it totally cut out and then revved back to life, and I was in first gear and it leaped forward. Scary. They said that the idle was not set high enough, so the mechanics changed that. Unfortunately it doesn't die out at the stop anymore but misfires when I change gears. I have had it into the shop twice now but they claim that it doesn't happen with them. It usually misfires when I have ridden it for a few miles, (maybe 50 at the most). I don't like the idle set this high, it is scary when after riding a few miles the idle is still running about 2800 rpms and I have to keep my foot on the brake hard. Don't get me wrong I absolutely love my Spyder but I am concerned that with the Rpms running this high something is wrong somewhere.

I was under the impression that there was no manual adjustment for the idle speed. That is, the idle speed is entirely under the control of the ECM. It would be interesting to know if the technician can change the idle speed with BUDS.

[NancysToy]

I was under the impression that there was no manual adjustment for the idle speed. That is, the idle speed is entirely under the control of the ECM. It would be interesting to know if the technician can change the idle speed with BUDS.
That is my understanding, too. Lassie, it appears you need to find a better dealer. Your techs are not competent to work on the Spyder.

[dabreitbach]

I would think there is a cable adjustment on the throttlebody that would let you adjust the idle like you were turning the throttle.:dontknow:

[boborgera]

I would think there is a cable adjustment on the throttlebody that would let you adjust the idle like you were turning the throttle.:dontknow:

Nope it's all controled by the EMC. No calbes,, Unless the throttle cable
was hangging up [return spring] at the handle bars that will keep the idle
high. Just my two cents.

[NancysToy]

I would think there is a cable adjustment on the throttlebody that would let you adjust the idle like you were turning the throttle.:dontknow:
There might be a way to adjust the throttle actuator, but that would make it out of calibration for the rest of the throttle settings. No Spyder should idle at 2800 rpm! An SE won't downshift at that kind of number. Spec is 1400. The throttle actuator should be calibrated per the shop manual procedure. If the idle is not within specifications after that, the tech should troubleshoot and resolve the problem, not just do a workaround.