What does it feel like when the Nanny takes over?

[Snoking1127]

I installed my new H&R springs and did a 145 ride one-up, and it handled fine. Yesterday we did a two-up ride, and the steering was doing strange things in corners. It was like for a moment it felt like the steering was locked and did not want to change with my input. Was this the Nanny taking over????? Or do I have a power steering issue?

Additional note: I recently also did brake pads on all three corners. Will be doing the normal checks again today, and tire air pressure, and lug nut torque, etc.

[RayBJ]

The Nanny will reduce/cut the engine power when it feels slippage. It can also apply brakes if I'm not mistaken. I used to get the Nanny to do that frequently but never felt steering intervention. The sway bar, shocks, & car tires virtually eliminated the Nanny's annoyance.

FWIW, I don't think the power steering is used above parking lot speeds.

[ARtraveler]

In most cases, when Nanny takes over you will only experience a light on the dash for a second or two. The bike does not go into "Spyder" mode and take over apart from the driver. You are always in major control of the Spyder.

Nanny took over for me twice only. Both times on Alaska roads where I was involved in "hydroplaning." I had a bad one where my Spyder spun 360 degrees. Nanny kept me from crashing by stopping the spin.

Background: AK allows the use of snow tires with studs. The main highways have ruts in them from the two tire tracks. When it rains in summer, the grooves fill with water. Hit them at more than 50 mph on a Spyder and you are going to hydroplane. There is a warning about this in the user manual. It took twice, but I learned good. I have had the nanny "light up" twice on our Arkansas twisties when I first got my F3's. YUP! she worked again. :bowdown:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

In most cases, when Nanny takes over you will only experience a light on the dash for a second or two. The bike does not go into "Spyder" mode and take over apart from the driver. You are always in major control of the Spyder.

Nanny took over for me twice only. Both times on Alaska roads where I was involved in "hydroplaning." I had a bad one where my Spyder spun 360 degrees. Nanny kept me from crashing by stopping the spin.

Background: AK allows the use of snow tires with studs. The main highways have ruts in them from the two tire tracks. When it rains in summer, the grooves fill with water. Hit them at more than 50 mph on a Spyder and you are going to hydroplane. There is a warning about this in the user manual. It took twice, but I learned good. I have had the nanny "light up" twice on our Arkansas twisties when I first got my F3's. YUP! she worked again. :bowdown:

:agree: ... and let me add ..... HOW the Nanny reacts ( a little or a lot ) depends on how severe the input is. .... ie. dangerously high speed while turning or spinning the rear tire and fish-tailing ..... Mike :thumbup:

[ARtraveler]

:agree: ... and let me add ..... HOW the Nanny reacts ( a little or a lot ) depends on how severe the input is. .... ie. dangerously high speed while turning or spinning the rear tire and fish-tailing ..... Mike :thumbup:

Can I add one point ???

On my 360 hydroplane, It seemed to last forever, but only took a couple seconds. I think I heard "buzzing & whirring" coming from somewhere during the "course correction." :bowdown:

[BajaRon]

The older Spyders had a more severe and temperamental Nanny. It was refined in 2013 and has probably had adjustments since then as well. You can get a jerking/pulsing action depending on what is triggered. More in the older bikes. Less in the newer ones. Steering could be affected if the Nanny is pulsing just one front wheel. But it isn't going to take control of steering. That would indicate a DPS issue. But you will surely throw codes if this is the case.

The DPS in my 2008 GS did take total control of steering a few times as it was failing. It was like the handlebars were welded in place. Fortunately, I was on a very wide 4 lane road with very little traffic. This scary issue was experienced by several in those early years and BRP had to redesign the DPS and replaced quite a few. I have not heard of this happening since the DPS was re-designed.

[Snoking1127]

The older Spyders had a more severe and temperamental Nanny. It was refined in 2013 and has probably had adjustments since then as well. You can get a jerking/pulsing action depending on what is triggered. More in the older bikes. Less in the newer ones. Steering could be affected if the Nanny is pulsing just one front wheel. But it isn't going to take control of steering. That would indicate a DPS issue. But you will surely throw codes if this is the case.

The DPS in my 2008 GS did take total control of steering a few times as it was failing. It was like the handlebars were welded in place. Fortunately, I was on a very wide 4 lane road with very little traffic. This scary issue was experienced by several in those early years and BRP had to redesign the DPS and replaced quite a few. I have not heard of this happening since the DPS was re-designed.

Well that is what it felt like, steering frozen it place for a moment. I will check for codes.

[Snoking1127]

Well that is what it felt like, steering frozen it place for a moment. I was check for codes.

No codes showing. Will take it for a careful test ride this afternoon.

[Allen42]

I think I heard "buzzing & whirring" coming from somewhere during the "course correction." :bowdown:

That would have been my butthole making all that noise in that situation. Sounds scary!

[Navydad]

I ride hard in the twisties and Nanny has spanked me many times. Most of the time it is just a quick cut in power like the kill switch was quickly flipped off then on. There have been a few occasions where the brakes were applied. I have never had a steering issue. When Nanny cuts the power or applies brakes it happens suddenly and the brief seconds of nose dive that happens could be construed as a steering problem I guess. After switching to real tires and adding the beefier sway bar I have less spankings from Nanny.

[BajaRon]

No codes showing. Will take it for a careful test ride this afternoon.

I would be surprised if it turns out to be the DPS. If you could move the handlebars at all during the event, it was probably just the Nanny. She can come at you for several different directions.

[CloverHillCrawler]

I have experienced the brake pulses in corners but the weirdest thing (expected under conditions but never experienced before) was when I was working in Hagerstown and took I-70 to work across 2 mountains here.

There are some really nice and long downhill straightaways, I have had the throttle just stop responding and just coasted with VSS indicated after getting to a certain speed even though the spyder was nice and stable and riding like it was on a rail.

After I dropped below a certain speed the VSS went away, and the throttle and gas started responding again. Luckily, I was in a clear area and not in the middle of passing anyone.

I am used to having governors on vehicles but nothing that would just totally cut out the throttle and gas at the same time.

[Snoking1127]

I checked the lug torque, lowered tire pressure a tad, swapped the DPS 40 fuse with another one and wrenched down a tad tighter on the battery connection. Nothing was glaringly wrong. Did not get out to test this afternoon. Will ride it tomorrow.

[DickB]

I had an issue on my Ryker where the nanny would kick in on left turns way before right turns due to equipment failure. It felt like a wobble, most likely one front wheel brake pulsing and possibly reduced power to the rear. Did not really feel like loss of steering control, but then the Ryker does not have power steering.

(I did get the issue fixed.)

[Peter Aawen]

I checked the lug torque, lowered tire pressure a tad, swapped the DPS 40 fuse with another one and wrenched down a tad tighter on the battery connection. Nothing was glaringly wrong. Did not get out to test this afternoon. Will ride it tomorrow.

Sounds like a good start, but I might be able to shed a little more light on your issue... :dontknow:

Back a while, the 8 or so year old original battery in my 2013 RT started to get tired, working to start the engine, especially in the cold, so I replaced it. Purchased a new (higher rated) battery; charged it for 12 hours before installation; no worries doing the job, altho I did have a little trouble keeping the Negative lead out of the way as I slid the new battery in & I hadta move that cable around a little... (remember that, why becomes clear later! ;) ) Took it out on short a test ride, and all seemed fine. It was a luverly day, the sun was out, not too hot, we had nothing scheduled for the day; sooo, I took the Child Bride out for a longer ride; a bit of faster stuff to start with, then lunch & gas up before heading home via the twisties - yep, the Child Bride's a Rev Head too! :ohyea:

BUT, once we hit the twisties, the trouble started!! Exactly as you describe, halfway thru a corner it'd feel like the steering locked up for a second or two - dive in too hard & it made for a real bum-pucker moment as the steering just seemed to jam & leave us drifting out of the turn at speed!! Slower, it'd be nowhere near as confronting, but it'd still be there, popping up every now and then! Suddenly lurching halfway thru a corner before coming back & working fine. Now I know very well what Nanny intervention in all its forms feels like, and it definitely wasn't that, but it did really feel like the DPS was either locking up or taking control & trying to go the wrong way. Nothing permanent tho, not as if the DPS had failed completely so that the steering just became a whole lot harder all the time; rather a seeming lock-up or take-over every now and then, but always when the steering was under load/halfway thru a corner/coming off a bump; it happened turning either way, so it wasn't tires; and it was getting worse.... :shocked:

After a very tentative trip home, I looked at EVERYTHING I'd touched that morning, thinking it was most likely the last thing I'd touched that'd be causing this issue, and that last thing was the battery. But it'd been good for all the trip out, almost 150 miles of fairly high speed straights & sweeping curves, so surely not??? :dontknow: It was only once we hit the bumpier, twistier roads, with lots of direction changes & 'G' forces.... could the battery be falling out, or had the DPS failed internally?? The battery still looked good, tested well, secured solidly in place, all the terminals tight, star washers firmly gripping, nothing moving or loose; I even checked how tight the cables were in their respective terminal ends.... and THEN it hit me - that bloody Negative cable that'd been flopping around and getting in the way!! :mad:

I'd checked the BATTERY end, hadn't I?! But I'd completely ignored the OTHER end of that cable, and I'd been rattling the battery end a fair bit!! The other end is buried waaaay in behind the Left Front Wheel, deep in the guts of the machine, right where the DPS is mounted on the Main Spar of the Frame, and there's a major Earth point there too; so there's a lug soldered onto the cable that's meant to be tightly secured to a clean & shiny patch of the frame, allowing it to serve as the Main Earthing point for the Battery AND the DPS!! So I started digging, wheel off, work light into the tunnel, following that Negative Cable. And when I finally reached & checked the bolt & Earth connection, it felt nice & tight, looked like a good connection onto the frame too... :dontknow: Went to grab the cable & rattle it around a bit just to be sure to be sure, only just by touching the Negative Cable I knew I'd found the culprit!! The solder holding the cable into the terminal/lug that was bolted to the frame had given up, and while the terminal/lug was tightly affixed to the frame, every lurch, bump, or rattle meant the cable would move in the socket and so not Earth the battery OR the DPS!! THAT was why it was intermittent, and mostly on corners/bumps/under load! :gaah:

It took about an hour to fish the cable out far enough to clean & re-solder the terminal/lug onto the cable again; maybe another 10 minutes to get it all back in place and tightly secured again; then a solid couple of hours of riding all the local twisties & bumpy roads I could think of to convince myself that I'd truly fixed it! And I had! :ohyea:

So I reckon your problem DOES sound very much like a dodgy DPS and not really VSS/Nanny related, and while yours may not be a dud joint &/or broken solder, have you replaced your battery lately, or even just connected anything to the battery terminals?? Are those battery terminals tight, and if they are, will the cables move in the sockets of the terminal/lug ends at all?? Have you checked the OTHER end of your battery cables too, and checked to make sure the terminal/lugs are both securely soldered/crimped onto the cable ends and tightly fixed to a clean, bright, & bare section of the frame?? Cos if you haven't, then like me, you juuust may have found the source of those particular steering problems... :thumbup:

Good Luck! :cheers:

[Snoking1127]

Sounds like a good start, but I might be able to shed a little more light on your issue... :dontknow:

Back a while, the 8 or so year old original battery in my 2013 RT started to get tired, working to start the engine, especially in the cold, so I replaced it. Purchased a new (higher rated) battery; charged it for 12 hours before installation; no worries doing the job, altho I did have a little trouble keeping the Negative lead out of the way as I slid the new battery in & I hadta move that cable around a little... (remember that, why becomes clear later! ;) ) Took it out on short a test ride, and all seemed fine. It was a luverly day, the sun was out, not too hot, we had nothing scheduled for the day; sooo, I took the Child Bride out for a longer ride; a bit of faster stuff to start with, then lunch & gas up before heading home via the twisties - yep, the Child Bride's a Rev Head too! :ohyea:

BUT, once we hit the twisties, the trouble started!! Exactly as you describe, halfway thru a corner it'd feel like the steering locked up for a second or two - dive in too hard & it made for a real bum-pucker moment as the steering just seemed to jam & leave us drifting out of the turn at speed!! Slower, it'd be nowhere near as confronting, but it'd still be there, popping up every now and then! Suddenly lurching halfway thru a corner before coming back & working fine. Now I know very well what Nanny intervention in all its forms feels like, and it definitely wasn't that, but it did really feel like the DPS was either locking up or taking control & trying to go the wrong way. Nothing permanent tho, not as if the DPS had failed completely so that the steering just became a whole lot harder all the time; rather a seeming lock-up or take-over every now and then, but always when the steering was under load/halfway thru a corner/coming off a bump; it happened turning either way, so it wasn't tires; and it was getting worse.... :shocked:

After a very tentative trip home, I looked at EVERYTHING I'd touched that morning, thinking it was most likely the last thing I'd touched that'd be causing this issue, and that last thing was the battery. But it'd been good for all the trip out, almost 150 miles of fairly high speed straights & sweeping curves, so surely not??? :dontknow: It was only once we hit the bumpier, twistier roads, with lots of direction changes & 'G' forces.... could the battery be falling out, or had the DPS failed internally?? The battery still looked good, tested well, secured solidly in place, all the terminals tight, star washers firmly gripping, nothing moving or loose; I even checked how tight the cables were in their respective terminal ends.... and THEN it hit me - that bloody Negative cable that'd been flopping around and getting in the way!! :mad:

I'd checked the BATTERY end, hadn't I?! But I'd completely ignored the OTHER end of that cable, and I'd been rattling the battery end a fair bit!! The other end is buried waaaay in behind the Left Front Wheel, deep in the guts of the machine, right where the DPS is mounted on the Main Spar of the Frame, and there's a major Earth point there too; so there's a lug soldered onto the cable that's meant to be tightly secured to a clean & shiny patch of the frame, allowing it to serve as the Main Earthing point for the Battery AND the DPS!! So I started digging, wheel off, work light into the tunnel, following that Negative Cable. And when I finally reached & checked the bolt & Earth connection, it felt nice & tight, looked like a good connection onto the frame too... :dontknow: Went to grab the cable & rattle it around a bit just to be sure to be sure, only just by touching the Negative Cable I knew I'd found the culprit!! The solder holding the cable into the terminal/lug that was bolted to the frame had given up, and while the terminal/lug was tightly affixed to the frame, every lurch, bump, or rattle meant the cable would move in the socket and so not Earth the battery OR the DPS!! THAT was why it was intermittent, and mostly on corners/bumps/under load! :gaah:

It took about an hour to fish the cable out far enough to clean & re-solder the terminal/lug onto the cable again; maybe another 10 minutes to get it all back in place and tightly secured again; then a solid couple of hours of riding all the local twisties & bumpy roads I could think of to convince myself that I'd truly fixed it! And I had! :ohyea:

So I reckon your problem DOES sound very much like a dodgy DPS and not really VSS/Nanny related, and while yours may not be a dud joint &/or broken solder, have you replaced your battery lately, or even just connected anything to the battery terminals?? Are those battery terminals tight, and if they are, will the cables move in the sockets of the terminal/lug ends at all?? Have you checked the OTHER end of your battery cables too, and checked to make sure the terminal/lugs are both securely soldered/crimped onto the cable ends and tightly fixed to a clean, bright, & bare section of the frame?? Cos if you haven't, then like me, you juuust may have found the source of those particular steering problems... :thumbup:

Good Luck! :cheers:

Peter, thank you for your lengthy reply. It got a new Yuasa YUAM6250H YTX24HL-BS Battery the first of November 2022. It is always on a maintainer when not being used. I will be all over the cables tomorrow. I really need to get to the bottom of this issue, that appears to be exactly what you had, as it is always part way through a corner when I had it occur, turning left. I really like the twisties and do not want to go sailing off the highway. I will report back on my findings. I did have the starter engage and click right off the other day, which might indicate something in the cabling, it started the second time. If I do not find a cabling issue, I will get the battery tested. Whatever it takes or costs I need this resolved, as I have an 1800 mile repositioning ride occurring in two months, to move it from Arizona to Washington State.

[Peter Aawen]

Peter, thank you for your lengthy reply. It got a new Yuasa YUAM6250H YTX24HL-BS Battery the first of November 2022. It is always on a maintainer when not being used. I will be all over the cables tomorrow. I really need to get to the bottom of this issue, that appears to be exactly what you had, as it is always part way through a corner when I had it occur, turning left. I really like the twisties and do not want to go sailing off the highway. I will report back on my findings. I did have the starter engage and click right off the other day, which might indicate something in the cabling, it started the second time. If I do not find a cabling issue, I will get the battery tested. Whatever it takes or costs I need this resolved, as I have an 1800 mile repositioning ride occurring in two months, to move it from Arizona to Washington State.

Leaving your battery on a maintainer ALL the time (except for when riding, of course! :p ) is not really a great idea; it's not ideal for any battery. That can hide a poor or weak battery until you're out there somewhere, well away from home, and the battery fails, or just doesn't quite do the job properly. They are best left off the maintainer if they get a good 30 minute+ ride every week or so, and only get the maintainer if left for longer than that.

So yeah, if you can't find a loose terminal or cable (& I do suggest you check the soldering/crimping on them, as well as their fixing/connections etc.) then a load test is a good idea. I've seen new batteries fail within days or even hours of installation, some that were even properly charged beforehand too!! :banghead:

Good Luck! :cheers:

Ps: One of our Ozzie Spyder Ryders recently had a similar experience when one of the OEM original fitment Shocks on the front of his Spyder failed... A real pucker moment as his Spyder suddenly darted off the road halfway thru a corner!! :shocked: There's a thread here somewhere, so it might be worth your while checking for oil leaks around the shock seals too! :dontknow:

[Snoking1127]

Leaving your battery on a maintainer ALL the time (except for when riding, of course! :p ) is not really a great idea; it's not ideal for any battery. That can hide a poor or weak battery until you're out there somewhere, well away from home, and the battery fails, or just doesn't quite do the job properly. They are best left off the maintainer if they get a good 30 minute+ ride every week or so, and only get the maintainer if left for longer than that.

So yeah, if you can't find a loose terminal or cable (& I do suggest you check the soldering/crimping on them, as well as their fixing/connections etc.) then a load test is a good idea. I've seen new batteries fail within days or even hours of installation, some that were even properly charged beforehand too!! :banghead:

Good Luck! :cheers:

Ps: One of our Ozzie Spyder Ryders recently had a similar experience when one of the OEM original fitment Shocks on the front of his Spyder failed... A real pucker moment as his Spyder suddenly darted off the road halfway thru a corner!! :shocked: There's a thread here somewhere, so it might be worth your while checking for oil leaks around the shock seals too! :dontknow:


I just put H&R springs on the shocks, so I had them all apart and back to gether. The Spyder seems to have a fair amount of parasitic draw when not in use. And a week seems to be dipping into battery capacity a fair amount.

[Hound]

We could start an entire new thread "What were you doing when the Nanny spanked you?"
:cheers:

[Snoking1127]

OK did a test ride of about 40 with some twisties, taken with caution and then a little faster and no issues. Was coming into the RV Resort and doing slow turns and had what felt like something in the steering was binding when I straighten back up after a corner. I looked at the service manual the night before last and did not find anything that needs to be greased.

[Peter Aawen]

OK did a test ride of about 40 with some twisties, taken with caution and then a little faster and no issues. Was coming into the RV Resort and doing slow turns and had what felt like something in the steering was binding when I straighten back up after a corner. I looked at the service manual the night before last and did not find anything that needs to be greased.

Any chance you've got a binding Tie-rod end?? The OEM units aren't greasable; not many are these days, but beyond what's already been offered, that could be a possible cause?! :dontknow:

I certainly hope it's not a failing DPS Unit, cos they ain't cheap!! Or readily available, either!! :mad: It might just be cos we're here in Oz, but I know of one fella who waited so long for BRP/the local dealer to supply & fit a replacement unit under warranty that he went and bought a new bike!! :shocked: Yes, it was another Spyder, but he purchased interstate, over 8 hours ride away, and he has even been taking it back there for any servicing he can't do himself! :rolleyes: Good dealers are sometimes hard to find! :banghead:

[Snoking1127]

I am going to jack up the front tomorrow and see if I can find what is causing it. Could be an upper or lower ball joint also.

[Peter Aawen]

I am going to jack up the front tomorrow and see if I can find what is causing it. Could be an upper or lower ball joint also.

They tend to make noises & contribute to twitchy/erratic steering tho, rather than seeming to bind the steering... But yeah, well worth a check up front! :thumbup:

[Mikey]

You may have to have it on the ground and loaded to get it to bind up for you! Just a thought:dontknow:! I also hope it's not the DPS! Would BUDS help with hunting this problem out, if it was the DPS?

[Snoking1127]

Man reading about the DPS, steering torque sensor, etc in the service manual, I sure hope it is a ball joint and some other DIY repair!

[Snoking1127]

I wonder if this isn't where the problem lies! The day before the first time I had an issue, I had been riding in a little rain! With the front wheels off the ground everything turns quite freely. However there is no load on the ball joint when it is jacked up. At any rate the ball joint needs to be replaced. While I wait for a ball joint I am tempted to spray some lube in it and take it for another test ride. Something like this WD-40 Specialist White Lithium Grease Spray with SMART STRAW SPRAYS 2 WAYS, 10 OZ Sprays on evenly as a liquid and sets dry with a thick, protective coating that won't run off. Safe from 0° F to 300° F for unbeatable protection

[Snoking1127]

Well I headed out on a test ride to Canyon Lake, think lots of twisties! AND I turned back shortly into the twisties! What is now occurring is that it goes into corner fine, however as I straighten out it is notchy with two or three notches as it straightens out. New ball joint is on order. Now to start studying how hard is it going to be to remove the lower A-arm. May be my first frunk removal exercise!

Question for someone that has maybe replaced one. If I remove the shock and steering knuckle(and getting it out of the way) would I be able to press it out and a new one in without removing the A-arm. Looking on buying something like this one.https://www.amazon.com/OrionMotorTech-Heavy-Removal-Adapters-Trucks/dp/B07D9D8M9H/ref=sr_1_9?crid=JDSL4DU6ZY6X&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.oWTGJSBDzKXaCwyQyJ8VXLMfeG-UqkjzW-4s3UJBRC9ml0gwMcxtj_8dIW5Uv6W2SM1AzRFiNs0EFzqDtzNj EN91zz4TS8CvXxVBJitK4GBDTQ8JOkh_NeLCRs9MPczAnn7D6H OUmZ6_xtk85txpmdT1mHs-iqJYC9Qrf5P8KfyiCsoOix5sqzYJi0iB9Q_-vyj_K0LVcgIGoUtv7RpPOy1X2MGgB8HY-ZybrXlieqER1CPvg8fkCCwCQJhgh9_oxBqp81TbYo1sltsVOvF 8vsKtifbLMDSE8h2GZYOrUxQ.7dgclmm6TNvjBuFmcU6MtiQIO DZ7BjCC8a__j-1U9nw&dib_tag=se&keywords=utv+ball+joint+press+kit&qid=1711226129&s=automotive&sprefix=utv+ball+joint+press+kit%2Cautomotive%2C16 6&sr=1-9

[Snoking1127]

Well my ball joint press showed up today, and I looked at all the components in the kit and then again reviewed the section in the service manual on R&R the lower ball joint. Seem to be pretty easy. It will be a week or so before the new ball joint arrives. Fingers crossed that it solves the steering problem.

[BajaRon]

I'm not so sure I wouldn't replace them both. One is bad. The other may not be far behind.

[Snoking1127]

Problem is only in left turns where there is more loading on the right front wheel. And that is the one with rubber boot failure. The other three boots look ok. But yes the second one will be easier, if needed.

[Snoking1127]

As part of the big ride from Az to Wa the new Vredestein Quatrac tires showed up today. Date code on both is 4323, so it appears that they were still producing this model tire 5 months ago.

I still have the 2013 RS blade style wheels with the Kenda's that came on Hookio the Asphalt grey one, I think I will move the Federal Formoza's to those wheels and junk the Kenda tires, and keep that set was spares or sell them to some that wants to upgrade from 14 rims. That or order another set of PPA chrome wheels. As I have never really liked the starfish wheel that are back on Hooker the Champagne one with the Federals.

[Snoking1127]

Well I replaced the lower right ball joint today, not an easy task for a guy that is going to be 80 this summer. The second set of PPA Orb wheels showed up also, so now Hooker is not jealous for Hookie having her Orb wheels and Vredestein Quartac tires, as she has new wheels and tires now. Rode around the RV resort doing zig zags and could not get the steering condition to raise it head. Going to rain for the next couple days, so no road test planned at this time.

[Snoking1127]

Well, I took Hooker for a test ride this morning on the twisties to Canyon Lake and could not get the steering act up. So hopefully the new ball joint fixed it. The new Vredesteins on new PPA wheels run smoothly without being balanced at 17 PSI (accounting for the extra weight that is going to be in the frunk).

Came home and changed the oil using Rotella T-6 5W-40. Planning on a 300-mile ride Wednesday with simulated weight of the BRP roller suitcase in the Frunk, as I continue to prep it for the ride from AZ to WA via Northern California coast (highway 1 and 101) and Oregon coast.

I have a fuel filter not yet installed.
And I am thinking about new coolant.

[Snoking1127]

Well, went for another ride today and still feel a slight notchy bind when straightening out the steering from a corner going really slow. So, it was not the right-hand ball joint. Pushed it in the fast twisties quite hard without issues. Going to take a long ride tomorrow.

[Snoking1127]

Still fighting steering issues. Did a 251 mile loop in the valley yesterday, and towards the end started having steering issues again. In a corner it feels like the DPS maybe is not working and then kicks in. It is like all of a sudden is oversteers in a corner, and I got the notchy feeling going slow and turning. Going to take the battery to be load tested and check over all the cabling carefully today. Also order another ball joint for the left side. I really wanted to ride this one to Washington in May! My have just come back with the trailer to get it. DPS is now $1689, so it will be expensive replace that with the required calibration with buds after installing it.

Reading other posts, it seems this is not an easy issue to naildown.

[BajaRon]

Still fighting steering issues. Did a 251 mile loop in the valley yesterday, and towards the end started having steering issues again. In a corner it feels like the DPS maybe is not working and then kicks in. It is like all of a sudden is oversteers in a corner, and I got the notchy feeling going slow and turning. Going to take the battery to be load tested and check over all the cabling carefully today. Also order another ball joint for the left side. I really wanted to ride this one to Washington in May! My have just come back with the trailer to get it. DPS is now $1689, so it will be expensive replace that with the required calibration with buds after installing it.

Reading other posts, it seems this is not an easy issue to naildown.

No need to take the battery out for a load test. If you have a multi-meter (everyone should have one of these. Cheap and easy to use). Simply hook the multi-meter to the correct battery connections (you have a 50/50 chance of getting this right! :rolleyes:). Then check voltage as you start the bike. If it falls below 11 volts, then you definitely have a weak battery. Eazy-Peazy!

[Snoking1127]

No need to take the battery out for a load test. If you have a multi-meter (everyone should have one of these. Cheap and easy to use). Simply hook the multi-meter to the correct battery connections (you have a 50/50 chance of getting this right! :rolleyes:). Then check voltage as you start the bike. If it falls below 11 volts, then you definitely have a weak battery. Eazy-Peazy!

That worked really well with old analog meters, however digital meters generally are slower to react to quick changes to voltage(at least on the display). The service manual says to hook your meter (I have several); start motor; turn the steering to lock momentarily left then right; and the voltage should not drop below 12V. They show a Fluke 111 meter that can log min and max volts. Back in my working days we had some really nice high end Fluke meters. I actually did some real-world testing on a new product they were developing for data communications, as they were in South Everett and I was in the banks data center in downtown Seattle.

Taking the battery out might make it easier to check the electrical connections to the DPS, as the instructions for removal state it is removed through the battery area.

Also, my digital meter/dual usb ports on the switch console stays pretty steady at 14.2 volts when out on the road.

[Peter Aawen]

That worked really well with old analog meters, however digital meters generally are slower to react to quick changes to voltage(at least on the display). The service manual says to hook your meter (I have several); start motor; turn the steering to lock momentarily left then right; and the voltage should not drop below 12V. They show a Fluke 111 meter that can log min and max volts. Back in my working days we had some really nice high end Fluke meters. I actually did some real-world testing on a new product they were developing for data communications, as they were in South Everett and I was in the banks data center in downtown Seattle.

Taking the battery out might make it easier to check the electrical connections to the DPS, as the instructions for removal state it is removed through the battery area.

Also, my digital meter/dual usb ports on the switch console stays pretty steady at 14.2 volts when out on the road.

For those who don't realise, that 2nd bold bit ^ just means your alternator/charging system is working fine, and theoretically, once your bike is started, you could pull the battery out of the bike completely and it'd still keep running fine on the power supplied by just the alternator - but I don't like your chances of starting it again if you do that!! :banghead:

Do NOT try this ^ on a V-Twin Spyder, they have a Magneto Charging System & not an alternator like there is in the 1330 powered Spyders, and it won't work/isn't smart to try on Magneto Charged vehicles!! :lecturef_smilie:

Snoking, do note that first bold '12 volts' bit - it doesn't matter if you're doing the load test yourself with any sort of multi-meter; if you're doing it with a proper 'load-tester'; or even if you're getting it done for you by any retailer, most other vehicle batteries would still be considered to be OK if they didn't drop below 11 volts or maybe even 10.5 volts - BUT NOT A SPYDER BATTERY!! :gaah:

Our Spyders are power hungry and put a LOT of demand on the battery, especially when starting and there's all sorts of power demands being made on the battery at once, many of them happening IMMEDIATELY BEFORE the alternator kicks in and right when the cranking load is at its highest - so if your Spyder battery EVER drops below 12 volts under load, it's time for a new one!! Preferably, get one that fits; that meets or exceeds the 350 CCA & 21 A/hrs over 10 hours specifications; and DO NOT install it without making sure it's been properly/fully charged for at least 8 hours prior to installation using a proper battery charger, not just a battery tender! :lecturef_smilie:

Yeah, I'm sounding like a cracked record (for those who remember those things! :p ) but the number of people I see/speak to who have all sorts of issues that all come back to dead or dying batteries would astound you!! :gaah: . These are often issues that their local dealers can't or won't find - or is that 'can't be bothered to find just yet, and won't, not while this sucker is prepared to keep on paying us good money to faff around NOT diagnosing such a basic problem!' :dontknow: :rolleyes:

Good Luck Snoking! :cheers:

[Snoking1127]

That 12.2V was from a couple years ago, most likely I had just turned it off and the timer still had the lights on and dash lite up. Also most likely the original battery before I installed a new one. Got a little more cleaning to do to the SxS and then it gets moved out of the center of the carport and I am going to do some test on the spyder. I have a roll of HD black yard waste bags. I am going to make two squares of 6 or 8 layers of the bag material and park the front wheels on them and see if I feel much resistance in turning the wheels back and forth with the trikes weight on them. This might help in telling if the left ball joint that has not yet been replaced is having issues.

However in reading others experiences I sure sounds like I have low voltage to the DPS. So all the electrical will get a look over.

[Snoking1127]

Well turning on the plastic pads was easy, no hang ups without the engine running. Tried it with each wheel raised off the ground also and it was the same on both. Turning to full steering either direction and holding it for a few seconds and the voltage stays right at 14.2 at idle. Tried to unplug and DPS to spray contact cleaner of the terminals and could not figure out the magic combo to release the latch to unplugged, and I was getting tired. So will leave that for another day.

[Snoking1127]

Well I am running out of time to address this steering issue, as I leave AZ on the 30th with the SxS on the trailer. My latest thought is to come back with the trailer and haul it back to Washington and maybe drop it off for Shawn Smoak at Pro Caliber in Vancouver, Wa to work on it or put a new DPS in myself and trailer it down for him to align.

I rode it about 150 yesterday across the Phoenix Valley without an issue. Still going to dig into it and check grounds, unplug the DPS and clean the contacts. Intermittent problems are the hardest to fix. Throwing a $1700 part at it??????

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Well I am running out of time to address this steering issue, as I leave AZ on the 30th with the SxS on the trailer. My latest thought is to come back with the trailer and haul it back to Washington and maybe drop it off for Shawn Smoak at Pro Caliber in Vancouver, Wa to work on it or put a new DPS in myself and trailer it down for him to align.

I rode it about 150 yesterday across the Phoenix Valley without an issue. Still going to dig into it and check grounds, unplug the DPS and clean the contacts. Intermittent problems are the hardest to fix. Throwing a $1700 part at it??????

I've been following this ..... If you haven't had a BUDS diagnosis of what is going on, spending $1700.00 dollars only to discover that the DPS is not the problem .... good luck ...Mike :thumbup:

[Snoking1127]

I've been following this ..... If you haven't had a BUDS diagnosis of what is going on .... spending $ 1700.00 dollars only to discover ....the DPS is not the problem .... good luck ...Mike :thumbup:

Just did at another 100 mile ride and did not have an issue. What is BUDS going to tell? No error codes logged. I know that a new DPS has to be aligned when installed. What would cause this to start happening and be very intermittent? What does BUDS diagnosis that would account for this?

[Snoking1127]

So the single electrical connection to the new Spyder is a 10 conductor double locking plug in a really hard area to reach. I watch an automotive connector type video on how to unplug them, and there it was the same style connector. So you take a small flat blade screwdriver and start the off white lock piece moving off the black plug and pull it off and drop into never never land below. You are now able to push down on the lock tap and the plug comes right off the DPS. I sprayed in with contact cleaner and sprayed the DPS side and put the plug on and then spent 40 minutes looking for and retrieving the secondary white locking piece.

To review: three pins are combined for +12V to the DPS and three are combined for ground. 1 is from fuse F7L(wake up TCM, DPS, Cluster, and DLC) and 2 are can bus + and -.

Going to ride it again tomorrow.

[Peter Aawen]

Just did at another 100 mile ride and did not have an issue. What is BUDS going to tell? No error codes logged. I know that a new DPS has to be aligned when installed. What would cause this to start happening and be very intermittent? What does BUDS diagnosis that would account for this?

BUDS can do A LOT MORE than just show &/or clear codes! :lecturef_smilie:

[Snoking1127]

Did a 200 mile ride today without any steering issues!

[Snoking1127]

Just did a 93 mile ride pushing it hard in corners without issue! So I guess I will be riding it to Washington in late May or June!

[Snoking1127]

I went ahead and replaced the other lower ball joint when it arrived. Second one went much faster than the first one. Have not had another case of steering issues.

[Snoking1127]

OK, did another 150 mile test ride today, and all is well at this point.

So here is my conclusion, I guess... This started on the second ride after installing the H&R front springs on the OEM shocks. To understand the lower ball joints and how they handle the load on the two front tires, I have loaded the picture of the right front again. This lower ball joint does not carry the Spyder's weight in the cup of the ball joint. Think of it this way, the stock b/j is holding the lower A-frame down and provides resistance to stop the lower A-arm from moving up. The ball joint is pressed into the bottom of the A-arm with the inner part that mates with the steering knuckle at the bottom of the knuckle. Meaning that when the tires are on the ground holding the weight of the front of the machine, that weight is trying to pull the center piece out of the shouldered top hole in the ball joint. It's not a ball pushing into a cup, it is a ball trying to pull up through a hole in a cup.

I believe the addition of the new H&R stiff springs caused the ball to be hammered into the ball joint 'cup with a hole' to the point of causing the steering to bind up possibly. I may never know for sure, but I do know that for several rides now all seems well. I bought this 2018 in fall of 2020 with 5240 miles on it; a lot of those miles I believe were done by the original owner at Quartzite, Az, while camping out in the desert. The machine was nice and clean on the outside. However, when I removed the tupperware, the interior was packed with dust. He may have beat it across bumpy desert roads. He said he had just installed a new belt, which now leads me to believe that the original ball joint was damaged by gravel. First picture was from his 'for sale' Ad.