2014 ST Surging on Start-Up - Could it be a bad MAP Sensor?

[TONYO]

OK..... Last two times I took my 2014 ST out. Both times aprox. 1 week apart. At start up, it surges..... I gave it a min & it settled down it ran fine on the ride. Today..... One week later, it surges bad and if I just let it idle it cuts off. If I give it a little throttle it kinda pops & surges right on. I did not feel comfortable takin it out! SO..... Someone PLEASE tell me what's goin on with my machine. TYIA :)

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

OK.....Last two times I took my 2014 st out. Both times aprox. 1 week apart. At start up it surges.....I gave it a min. n it settled down it ran fine on the ride. Today.....One week later it surges bad and if I just let it idle it cuts off. If I give it a little throttle it kinda pops n surges right on. I did not feel comfortable takin it out! SO.....Someone PLEASE tell me whats goin on with my machine. TYIA :)

As far as engine management or items related to the engine is your Spyder stock or have modified it ????? .... Mike :thumbup:

[TONYO]

Well.... I did the canister thing & replaced the plugs & wires with Ron's stuff a couple of years back. And I have a slip-on muffler. Other than that, it's stock. AND... I will say that canister thing is the best thing I ever did for this machine. It's been running great. And it's got non-ethanol gas in it. I did not replace the vacuum hoses and am thinking that could be the issue. BUT I don't know! So.... I am hoping that you guys can help me out a bit before I open it up. TY SO MUCH!

[2dogs]

My 14 RT surges a bit on start up but calms right right down. Remember we are fly by wire so I would suspect something in that area may be the issue. That's way over my pay grade to deal with that stuff so I'd have to take it to a dealer for a Can Am spyder service tech to figure it out. Good luck and let us know what solves your problem.

[CloverHillCrawler]

Did you put heavier oil in it?

I know when I went from the 5w-30 xps oil to the 10w-40 rotella T-6 if I don't let it warm up some before I head out it will surge and sometimes even stall coming off of a stop if I give it too much gas until the oil warms up during cold weather.

[2dogs]

I never had the problem when I went to 10w40. It improved my ability to catch that sweet spot to shift into first/reverse without the KLUNK.

[CopperSpyder]

Well.... I did the canister thing & replaced the plugs & wires with Ron's stuff a couple of years back. And I have a slip-on muffler. Other than that, it's stock. AND... I will say that canister thing is the best thing I ever did for this machine. It's been running great. And it's got non-ethanol gas in it. I did not replace the vacuum hoses and am thinking that could be the issue. BUT I don't know! So.... I am hoping that you guys can help me out a bit before I open it up. TY SO MUCH!

Tonyo you may be on the right track with the vacuum lines (also keep in mind bad fuel can happen anytime). "click: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?155590-ST-with-Check-engine-light-amp-codes-P0107-and-C1290-fixes&highlight=vacuum+lines

[Navydad]

Air leak. Change the vacuum lines. That is a known issue with that engine and they are ten years old.

[Bfromla]

Tonyo you may be on the right track with the vacuum lines (also keep in mind bad fuel can happen anytime). "click: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?155590-ST-with-Check-engine-light-amp-codes-P0107-and-C1290-fixes&highlight=vacuum+lines:agree: very likely

[TONYO]

THANK YOU Everybody! I run Castrol 5/40 oil. My plan is to replace the vacuum hoses. If that don't cure it.... I'll get fresh gas and a bottle of injector cleaner. LAST Resort will be the dreaded dealership!!!!!!!! WISH ME LUCK ALL. :( Thanks again for the input.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Did you put heavier oil in it?

I know when I went from the 5w-30 xps oil to the 10w-40 rotella T-6 if I don't let it warm up some before I head out it will surge and sometimes even stall coming off of a stop if I give it too much gas until the oil warms up during cold weather.

I use 10W40 Rotella in my 1330 engine and No issues ... and I live in a cooler climate zone than you ..... I don't think it's the oil .... JMHO ....Mike :thumbup:


Well.... I did the canister thing & replaced the plugs & wires with Ron's stuff a couple of years back. And I have a slip-on muffler. Other than that, it's stock. AND... I will say that canister thing is the best thing I ever did for this machine. It's been running great. And it's got non-ethanol gas in it. I did not replace the vacuum hoses and am thinking that could be the issue. BUT I don't know! So.... I am hoping that you guys can help me out a bit before I open it up. TY SO MUCH!

Thanks for the info.... IMHO if the Vacuum hoses are original OEM, this is a common issue.... Get some Silicone hoses & see if it goes away..... Mike :thumbup:

[Mikey]

I think your heading on the right track. I would give it a couple shots of a good injector cleaner and get it out on the highway and give it a few good rev's!! And yes, get rid of the bad lines, did it for a friend a few years ago, and he's still thinks it was the best thing I ever did for him!

[CloverHillCrawler]

I use 10W40 Rotella in my 1330 engine and No issues ... and I live in a cooler climate zone than you ..... I don't think it's the oil .... JMHO ....Mike :thumbup:

Most likely it is not his oil, but do you go out riding when it is below 30 deg f like I do? It happens when I am in a rush and just take off from a cold start and don't let it warm up for about 10-15 minutes.

I take the long way around my block now if I do so I don't have to stop at a stop sign. Once the oil has warmed up there is no other issues. I didn't have this issue when running the 5w-30.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Most likely it is not his oil, but do you go out riding when it is below 30 deg f like I do? It happens when I am in a rush and just take off from a cold start and don't let it warm up for about 10-15 minutes.

I take the long way around my block now if I do so I don't have to stop at a stop sign. Once the oil has warmed up there is no other issues. I didn't have this issue when running the 5w-30.

My expertise is with Tires :roflblack: .... But I think if you are using Synthetic oil ( like Rotella ) the difference between viscosity of 5W vs. 10-W is not significant ..... ask Ron .... Mike :thumbup:

[TONYO]

OK....I have opened it up. The front hose is no problem. BUT I can't even see the back one. I have taken that airbox out b/4 n said I'd never do that again! LOL... Is there a trick to getting that back one out and replaced? Educate me here guys. I really appreciate you folks knowledge. TYIA Tony

[TONYO]

OK Update. I found a video and now know what must be done to get to the back hose. SO, I tried to get the map sensor off and it's very tight. I stripped it out! Imagine that ;) I took off the front hose and looked it over and it has a crack! That made me feel much better. I'm going to the parts store to get a piece of that hose and replace the front one and fire it off with my fingers crossed that the back one is OK. I'm not messing with it anymore today. It's 31 mins. 'til beerthirty. THANKS EVERBODY. CHEERS

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

OK Update. I found a video and now know what must be done to get to the back hose. SO, I tried to get the map sensor off and it's very tight. I stripped it out! Imagine that ;) I took off the front hose and looked it over and it has a crack! That made me feel much better. I'm going to the parts store to get a piece of that hose and replace the front one and fire it off with my fingers crossed that the back one is OK. I'm not messing with it anymore today. It's 31 mins. 'til beerthirty. THANKS EVERBODY. CHEERS

OK .... be advised most of those vacuum hoses LOOKED fine ..... However, the cracks are generally MICRO-SCOPIC .... IMHO, if one was bad, they both are ..... Hope you got it fixed .... Mike :thumbup:

[ARNIE R]

I had two vacuum hoses that looked fine, However, they literally fell off when I touched them because they were so loose on the nipple fittings.

[TONYO]

OK.... Went to the parts store and got a foot of their 1/8" inside diameter hose. Cut it and slid it on. It's not tight. Spyder won't even start with it. I put my glasses on and measured it and it is actually 5/32...... It was only a buck. So no biggie. The original is 1/8 inside diameter. SO, now my question is... Where do I get the correct diameter hose? I see it on ebay for approx. ten bucks per hose. Is that my only option? I just called Advance Auto and he has silicone that is 3/32 inside. Do ya think that would work? Thanks Everybody. Tony

[2dogs]

We used to check for vacuum leaks by squirting starting fluid in the area and listening for an RPM change.

[Bfromla]

OK....Went to the parts store and got a foot of their 1/8" inside diameter hose. Cut it and slid it on. It's not tight. Spyder won't even start with it. I put my glasses on and measured it and it is actually 5/32...... It was only a buck. So no biggie. The original is 1/8 inside diameter. SO, Now my question is... Where do I get the correct diameter hose? I see it on ebay for approx. ten bucks per hose. Is that my only option? I just called Advance Auto and he has silicone that is 3/32 inside. Do ya think that would work? Thanks Everybody. Tony few report finding silicone replacement at NAPA.

[Mikey]

And change them both!!!! You'll be sorry if you don't.

[TONYO]

OK.... Finally got the hose. Had to order it thru ebay. I got the map sensor off and moved a couple things to help open a hole to get to the back one. I'm gonna post the video of how to do it. There are two small hoses attached to a metal plate in front. I need to remove one of them from that bracket, but I don't want to break it out. SO, how does it release/come off? ALSO.... He removed a plug.... Does that just slide off or is there a place to squeeze to get it off? I can't thank you guys enough. Tony

https://youtu.be/hHKrsjPzAYw?si=XYEqBegYnbi9U4CK

[BajaRon]

Check your Canister-Ectomy to be sure the blocked off PCV Valve port is not sucking any air.

[TONYO]

Thanks. I will check that if this hose replacement doesn't work. I'm thinking I screwed a bolt into that hose. Anyway, the issue right now that's holding me up is ignorance about how to move that rubber hose thing out of its bracket without breaking it. Take a look at the video I posted, and you will see what I'm talking about. Thanks again for that advice. Tony

[TONYO]

OK Folks.... This oldtimer finally got the new vacuum lines installed. Please overlook my slow pace. I am not what I used to be. And.... I will say this. That back hose is very hard to get to on a 2014! Also checked the other side PCV and it's blocked off tight. SO...... It is still the same. It will start but surges and cuts off if I don't give it a bit of throttle. No codes.
Any advice would be very much appreciated. TYIA Tony :)

[TONYO]

OK....Ima try this here. My 2014 ST is surging at startup. I have replaced the map vacuum lines and it is the same. SO.... I'm thinking it could be a bad map sensor? What do you guys think? I can't thank you folks enough for the input. TYIA Tony

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Why do you think that? Do you have a code? Do you have any codes?

[TONYO]

No codes. I don't really know what to think at this point. That's why I'm asking here. It is my hope that someone will see this and say.... Yeah, mine was doing that and it was........... Thanks, Tony

[Bfromla]

Surging how big a gap of RPM’s. Mine will 500-700 until it's warm (longer if just sitting - telling me it wants to MOVE) you’ve done the map hoses, pcv - what about fuel & air filters, fresh gas, maybe some system cleaner (at least 1 tank of gas run through) & phone con with dealer? They will want you bring it in, but you can try for an over the phone diagnosis.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

No codes. I dont really know what to think at this point. Thats why im asking here. It is my hope that someone will see this and say....Yea mine was doing that and it was........... Thanks Tony

I understand, Tony. But there usually isn't just one thing. The ECM is pretty good at telling you if there is a bad sensor. They all have signal too Hi/Lo fault codes.

So, Here’s your To Do List. Fuel, Air, and Spark. There are a number of things to check. All can be done in one day and relatively inexpensive.

Fuel:

- As was said, bad fuel can happen anytime. Or, weird weather that results in condensation in the tank. Is this old fuel that’s been in there since last fall? You may have to siphon out the tank and refill. Be sure to get the hose all the way to the bottom. That’s where the water is.

- There are dozens, maybe hundreds of posts on here over the years attesting to, that the 998 needs the occasional dose of Seafoam. Get some in the tank and run it. If, after a few minutes it begins to improve, keep it running and try to ride it up and down the driveway and around the block. Stay close to home.

- How old is the fuel filter? How many miles? The one that’s on there could be 10 years in service. Right side by where the canister used to be. You already know where it is. Replace. Piece of cake.

Air - Not Enough:

- It’s spring. Critters are on the move, building nests, and procreating. Open up your intake at the air filter and check things out…including the condition of the air filter.

Air - Too Much:

- Back to vacuum leaks. I see by your profile that you have an SM5. Then, you have another vacuum system over there on the right-hand side of the machine that provides the vacuum assist for the clutch. It starts at the throttle body for the front cylinder, goes through a check valve, to the solenoid valve and then down to the clutch. Inspect the length of hose for cracks and holes. Make sure that it is still connected to the throttle body. You will notice that the solenoid valve has an open port. That is to relieve the vacuum from the clutch when you release the clutch handle. It should NOT be sucking air all of the time. If it is, replace. Refer to pic.

- Also, another source of vacuum leaks is the rubber boot that the throttle bodies mount into with the rest of the engine. You’ll see those hose clamps and rubber boots. Check for tightness of the clamps and inspect the rubber boots for cracks and leakage. There are those that have tried an in-place repair with silicon sealant. Doesn’t work. A full replacement is called for.

Spark:

- While you’re crawling around in there, check out those wires that you put on to see if there’s a rub that damaged the insulation, and that you put them on the plugs completely.

Heat under the bodywork is the enemy of the 998’s rubber components.

By the way folks - It’s not a PCV valve. It is a Purge valve. Two completely different emission control systems. Neither the 998 nor the 1330 have PCV valves, only Purge valves.

[TONYO]

OK TY! I just spent the last two hours looking and feeling for cracks etc. Everything seems ok. The fuel filter was changed approx. 25000 miles ago. The gas was 2 weeks old when I first posted this. It is ethanol free gas. I always switch to that the first of Nov. & run it till about this time. I had run over 100 miles on that tank of gas with no issues b/4 it started this. And it's always in the garage. No critters in there. SO.... My plan was to see what you guys said today and call the dealership in the morning. They are closed today. I can't say how much I dread taking it to the dealership!!!!! I have always done my own work/maintenance and it has saved me thousands of dollars in the 9 years I have owned it. BUT I'm not what I used to be to say the least. I found a used map sensor on ebay for 30 bucks shipped. I emailed the seller and he said he guaranteed it to be good. And that if it doesn't work for me, I can send it back for free. After this post, I figure that's not the issue. BUT I am tempted to get it & see. Nothing lost seems like to me. I'd do dang near anything to avoid that dealership! I also checked to see if there were any hidden codes. Pushing the buttons. The screen came up clear. SO.... The plan for now is to call them in the morning. I'd bet that he will know what's wrong with it. I don't expect him to tell me. Will see come morning. I will update then. Cannot thank you guys enough for the help/info/advice. Tony :)

[2dogs]

TONYO I can't find where you explain the RPM range(s) for your surges or the duration of the surge. Could you advise please?

[TONYO]

TONYO I can't find where you explain the RPM range(s) for your surges or the duration of the surge. Could you advise please?

OK... Sorry. I know how this one does when it's first started. I always for the last 9 years allow it to slow down rpms b/4 I put it in gear, so it don't clunk so hard. I am very easy on this machine. This goes from approx. 2000 rpms and 4000rpms.... As long as I hold the throttle at 2000 rpms. If I allow it to idle..... it shuts down. Thank you very much for the input/thoughts, REALLY! Tony

[Bfromla]

Head scratcher. Sorry beyond my experience

[TONYO]

OK Guys. Just talked to the service manager. I'm takin it in on Sat. WISH ME LUCK! IMA NEED IT! TY ALL.... I will update when they get done with me. IF I don't die of a heart attack when they show me the bill. :yikes: GEZZZZZZZZZZZ :)

[TONYO]

OK.... Two weeks at the stealership and it is fixed! Part#270600040 Pressure Sensor is what they said was wrong. It's running good now. SO.................. It was painful, BUT I am happy it's fixed. THANKS Everybody. Tony

[Scottncol]

OK.... Two weeks at the stealership and it is fixed! Part#270600040 Pressure Sensor is what they said was wrong. It's running good now. SO.................. It was painful, BUT I am happy it's fixed. THANKS Everybody. Tony

Is that the Map Sensor that you were referring to?

[TONYO]

NO. You can google the number n find out which one it was. AND....I dont trust them. Charged me 135 bucks to replace my air filter :shocked: