Ryker turning left Issues

[blackphoenix38]

I have this really weird issue when I left at random speeds. The right tire will will act like the vvs or abs is kicking in and just bog down. It happens randomly on any type of turn at any speed. Or the fun part, it doesn't happen at all on some rides.

turning right is no issue at. I can hit a long right hand sweeper and full throttle no problem at all. If I try to take the same turn the other direction going left, it shuts me down right away.

The handlebars also fight me on left turns. Another weird thing, I hit a bump, heard a metal sound and all of sudden the issue was gone for a while.

I don't get any warning lights at all on the LCD screen, so I'm thinking this is a mechanical issue, but I just can't pin down what it getting binded up or what is rubbing somewhere, its just so random I can find it.

Anyone else run into something like this?

[DickB]

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?155348-Here-s-my-Left-Turn-quot-wobble-quot-Fix!

[blackphoenix38]

I should have mentioned I have a 2022 Ryker Sport. Looks like the 22's already came with that fix.

Not sure how I can find out if it actually came with it already installed or not. This is a recent problem. I already have 7000 miles on it and bought it new.

[StalkyTracker]

Maybe this follow-up from Captainmal may help.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?155870-Removing-magnet-from-Left-Passenger-Footpeg

[DickB]

I should have mentioned I have a 2022 Ryker Sport. Looks like the 22's already came with that fix.

Not sure how I can find out if it actually came with it already installed or not. This is a recent problem. I already have 7000 miles on it and bought it new.
Question is, was it broken in on all 2022s or partway through the model year? I would call Can Am and ask. I called with questions about this update kit, and the person with whom I spoke was very helpful.

https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/us/en/resources/contact-us.html

[DickB]

Even if you have the newer parts, the problem could be due to a faulty SAS (Steering Angle Sensor) or yaw rate sensor. After installing the kit, I determined that my SAS was faulty, and a replacement SAS finally cured everything.

[blackphoenix38]

I removed the rear passenger peg and it actually got a little bit better, but it is still there. Just really weird.

I don't have time to have it sit at the dealer for 3 weeks right now. I'll take it when I can and see what they say. If that SAS sensor wasn't such a pain to take out I would just do it myself.

[greer]

I’ve got the random left hand curve/rear wheel wobble thing. Lots of folks do according to the FB groups. Per the talk there, right hand curve problems are due to the SAS sensor, left hand curve problems are due to the YAW sensor. I don’t know. I can take right hand curves like a demon and never have a bobble, but a left hand curve is liable to give the bike fits. It’s never thrown a code or caused anything on the dash to flash.

Sarah

[DickB]

Per the talk there, right hand curve problems are due to the SAS sensor, left hand curve problems are due to the YAW sensor.
That's not correct. There are three potential contributors, right, left or both: SAS, yaw sensor, and pitman arm bearings PLUS additional parts needed. I had to apply the Steering Update kit and replace a faulty SAS to fix the problem on my 2019 Rally.

[greer]

Thanks again for the information DickB. I want it fixed so I’ll be taking all this to the dealer.

Sarah

[DickB]

Thanks again for the information DickB. I want it fixed so I’ll be taking all this to the dealer.

SarahI hope you have better luck than I did. Let us know what happens. This is from a recent post of mine:

As I got more comfortable with the motorcycle a few weeks into riding it, I noticed a definite left turn bias in the stability control kicking in. In fact, it would never kick in on right turns, no matter how aggressively I cornered. Finally, at 11,100 miles, I took it to a dealer. I had read this service bulletin:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10181946-0001.pdf

which I pointed out to the service writer. He was a bit arrogant and dismissed it. I doubt he even mentioned it to the tech. Both he and the tech said that they rode the motorcycle, and there was no problem. I suspect that they just didn't push it hard enough in corners. “TEST RIDE AT LOW AND MODERATE SPEEDS, TURNS BOTH DIRECTIONS. NO ABNORMAL FEELING... NORMAL FOR A RYKER.” The tech said tire pressure, alignment, sensors were all good. $170 for basically nothing.

Still frustrated with this left turn thing, a couple months ago I decided to order the Ryker Steering Update Kit P/N 219800513 and install it myself. Installation calls for resetting the SAS (Steering Angle Sensor) and yaw sensor, which I found to be necessary, so I bit the bullet and got a BUDS2. I like to do my own repairs, so I should have gotten the BUDS2 day one. The closest dealer is 2 hours from me, so any trip to a dealer costs me a day, or in some cases two days and a trailer rental. No more. $30 for the kit; $600 for the BUDS2 (which I have also used on my Sea Doo Spark). The left turn bias was now gone, but the stability control still seemed wonky, kicking in on what I felt was not-that-aggressive cornering either left or right. Had I taken a step backwards? I reconnected BUDS2 and noted that the SAS was off by 4.9 degrees, so I reset it again. The wonkiness continued. Checked SAS a third time, and it was again off by about 5 degrees. This is not normal. I bought a used SAS for $90 (Can Am is pretty proud of that SAS, as a new one is $225), installed it, and rezeroed it. Finally, the problem was fixed – I now get stability control kicking in only on very aggressive cornering.

[greer]

Thank you for sharing your experience and the details. I hope it goes better than that for me, but we’ll see. It’s a fairly random occurrence on my bike I can see how a tech would be left scratching their head.

Sarah

[blackphoenix38]

So finally took it to the dealer. It was out of alignment. They did an alignment and reset the sensors. It's better than it was and much more ridable now. But something is still off, which is weird, because it tracked straight, and I don't see any abnormal tire wear. But hey, it's better, but not perfect.

[greer]

Glad you've seen some improvement, at least. But if the bike can hang any sort of right hand curve every single time without a bobble, it ought to to do the same for the left. Sometimes my bike takes so many left hand curves without the issue that I think it's cured itself, but then Bang! there it is again. My bike has never thrown a code, either. Frustrating, for sure.

Sarah

[blackphoenix38]

it's so weird. some corners it's fine. Took a nice sweeping left turn at 50mph.. no issues. another slow corner at 30mph.. it does the weird thing..

just doesn't make any sense. I'm going to remove the wheel sensors and do some testing. It'll be in limp mode, but I'll be able to see if it's a mechanical problem, or if it really is the VSS system going crazy.

[greer]

Please keep us posted, I'm anxious to hear how it goes. Good luck!!

Sarah

[DickB]

Another weird thing, I hit a bump, heard a metal sound and all of sudden the issue was gone for a while.
Anyone else run into something like this?I would suspect that the SAS is bad. A clue for me was that my turn signals would not always self cancel. In my case, I would reset the SAS with BUDS2, drive, then check and the SAS was off again by 5 degrees. The SAS is used to determine that the handlebars are straight again after a turn. Do you notice your turn signal not cancelling?

[blackphoenix38]

it's most definitely the VSS system. I took the speed sensors off and did some testing, got the wheel to raise off the ground pretty high on a turn. so it's not a mechanical issue. BRP really needs to sort their electronics out.
so far left turns have been ok, seems not to freak out as much. But if it starts getting worse again I'll have to have them reset it yet again.

[greer]

Rode just under 100 miles yesterday and mine acted up several times, definitely more often than usual. And on one occasion the left turn signal failed to cancel, that's never happened before. By "speed sensors" do you mean the YAW and SAS sensors? Thanks so much for posting with an update.

Sarah

[DickB]

And on one occasion the left turn signal failed to cancel, that's never happened before. SarahThat's indicative of a SAS issue.

[greer]

Yep. The bike had very few miles on it when this first occurred, so it would seem like a faulty sensor from day one. It's never thrown a code, and the issue is so random I expect it will be difficult for a service tech to recreate. If I were to buy a new sensor and replace it myself I'd be concerned the new one is just as wonky as the one in it.

Sarah

[blackphoenix38]

so some updates. I disabled the vss and did some testing. I did not have any issues. Although I did get it up on two wheels. So the issue is 100% the VSS system or sensors involved with that system.

It's currently at my dealer now to look at again. the tech told me he's got 3 other rykers right now in the shop with the same exact issue. He's been back and forth with BRP HQ about it.

It's a platinum dealer and they know me pretty well, he cannot officially tell me anything, but he said without saying that he fully expects a recall on this issue once BRP has a solid fix for it.

[DickB]

Disabled VSS? How?

[blackphoenix38]

it's an unwritten rule here not to explain how to actually do it. There's a couple different ways, I did the easy route just for testing.

there's enough info out there on how to do it if you search hard enough in the right places.

[greer]

so some updates. I disabled the vss and did some testing. I did not have any issues. Although I did get it up on two wheels. So the issue is 100% the VSS system or sensors involved with that system.

It's currently at my dealer now to look at again. the tech told me he's got 3 other rykers right now in the shop with the same exact issue. He's been back and forth with BRP HQ about it.

It's a platinum dealer and they know me pretty well, he cannot officially tell me anything, but he said without saying that he fully expects a recall on this issue once BRP has a solid fix for it.

Good to know, thank you.

Sarah

[blackphoenix38]

I got the Ryker back last night. I had a bunch of engine codes pointing to the steering sensor. they would reset it, take it for a ride and when they got back and checked it, it would be off again by a few degrees.

they changed out the bushing on that sensor. Its fine for now, but will be interesting how long it'll last for.

the most interesting part is that my Ryker is now out of warranty, but BRP honored this as a "warranty" repair because it's now become a "known" issue.

I smell a recall coming once they can actually pin down the cause and get an actually fix for the problem. But it does seem like they are trying to figure it out.

[greer]

Thank you for keeping us in the loop. I filled out the NHTSA form a while ago, hope everybody does.

Sarah

[DickB]

they would reset it, take it for a ride and when they got back and checked it, it would be off again by a few degrees. Exactly what mine did, AFTER I installed the Steering Update Kit. I had to also replace the SAS to fix.

[MarkN]

Same problem with a happy ending (not that kind) so far.
2021 600 with just under 12,000 mi. Dealer was able to replicate it every time but no clue what to do. Sent them a copy of this thread (hope that was ok) which they said was very helpful (thanks everybody). They changed yaw sensor, no change. Installed steering update kit, no change. Changed steering stem bushing, fixed. He said something about the pitman arm bushing had just a touch of slop causing the sas to throw everything off. Only got to ride about 50 mi but it seems ok. The best part? All it cost me was a round trip.
Hope this helps.

[greer]

Super helpful! Thank you, MarkN.

Sarah

[greer]

MarkN,

Would you have any idea the part number for the steering stem bushing?

https://www.canamoemparts.com/oemparts/a/cam/62a74b38647df38e2c4bea7b/mechanic-steering-column

#70, I'm guessing?

Sarah

[MarkN]

Sarah,
That might be the one but the part number is different. They put in #709402919. I have the work order but don’t know how to post it. Hope this helps.

[StalkyTracker]

I believe #709401956 (Sarah's #70) is superceded by your #709402919.

https://alloutcycles.com/Shopping/OEM-Parts/can-am/motorcycles/2021/001-ryker-std-600-ace/03-mechanic-steering-column/d134badd-c1cf-4764-b826-0ab35a061446

[greer]

Thanks, you two. So the old part number is listed for my 2022, and 709402919 is listed for the '23 and '24 bikes. Hopefully it's an upgraded bushing. My bike has never thrown a code. If you were in my shoes would you buy the bushing and change it yourself, or go to the dealer with the sad story and try to get them to do it? I have the extended warranty.

Sarah

[StalkyTracker]

Double checking with the BRP parts catalog confirms the change for 2022 Rykers too.

206477

Don't know your dealer or your relationship with them but if it were me, I'd start there. You have a warranty and you can always do it yourself later. imho

[greer]

Well heck. canamoemparts.com lists the old part # for the 19-22 bikes. Thank you, StalkyTracker.

Sarah

[MarkN]

Something to think about - If you take it to the dealer and hopefully it’ll be covered 100% like mine was, it’ll get put in the system and maybe BRP will take notice and do something about it and make a whole lot of people happy.

[greer]

Yes, you're right, both of you. I'll start with a call to Can Am.

Sarah

[greer]

OK, The Can-Am rep gave me a customer service case number and offered help finding a dealer in case I wasn't aware of the options in my area. Once the bike is at the dealer I'm to ask the service tech to contact Can Am Technical Department first thing. I have an appointment with CC Powersports in Louisville next week. I'm going in with with the TSB, part numbers and a pile of notes. Those poor folks will be :gaah:

Sarah

[MarkN]

When they did my left turn issue, it was detected right away. The problem was that every time they fixed something, the weather was so bad they couldn’t test it so it took quite awhile. I hope your experience goes as well as mine did.
Hopefully they’ll do the fuel pump recall while it’s there.

[greer]

Thank you for the fuel pump reminder, I'll add that to my list.

Sarah

[greer]

Doug's dad required surgery and a long hospital stay, so we've been running behind. Dropped the bike off at the dealership day before yesterday. We'll see how it goes.

Sarah

[greer]

Picked up the bike yesterday. Long story short, per Can Am Headquarters all bets are off as long as I'm running a car tire on the rear. Nathan (service manager) said he didn't volunteer the information, Can Am asked specifically. Nathan said the rep told him the bike must be wearing the factory tire and throw a code or the tech needs to be able to replicate the issue. Once that happens the rep will authorize whatever fix is necessary. Nathan said my '22 already has the updated steering kit and steering stem bushing, so MarkN's fix didn't apply, and all those components were in fine shape per their inspection. Nathan and Josh (service tech) said they both rode the bike and couldn't get it to act up in any way. That doesn't surprise me, it was at least 8,000 between bobbles on our trip last summer. So they told me put the Kenda on the rear, ride till I throw a code and bring it right back to them. They had me sit on the bike while they reset the SAS and YAW rate sensors, with some weight stacked on the rack to serve as luggage. They also installed the DESS key post and programmed my keys. Didn't charge me for anything, and were as kind, patient and respectful as they could be. This was at CC Powersports in Louisville KY, and based on my experience so far I'd recommend them to anybody. So I got on the bike and rode the 100 miles home and sure enough, the bike bobbled on that one particular curve coming in from town. Wouldn't you know it. :cus:

Sarah

[DickB]

In my case, the SAS was bad and would not hold a reset (actually a rezero). That is, I would zero it, ride, then it would be off by about 5 degrees. When they reset the SAS, they would have seen what the reading was before rezroing it. If it was at or near zero, the SAS is likely OK, but if it was off when they reset it, I would question if it is good.

Another clue is if your turn signals often do not self cancel.

[greer]

Thank you DickB, I didn't ask any questions when they reset the sensors on Friday, but I'll call Tuesday and see what I can find out. My left turn signal has failed to cancel at least twice. Thanks again.

Sarah

[blackphoenix38]

Picked up the bike yesterday. Long story short, per Can Am Headquarters all bets are off as long as I'm running a car tire on the rear. Nathan (service manager) said he didn't volunteer the information, Can Am asked specifically. Nathan said the rep told him the bike must be wearing the factory tire and throw a code or the tech needs to be able to replicate the issue. Once that happens the rep will authorize whatever fix is necessary. Nathan said my '22 already has the updated steering kit and steering stem bushing, so MarkN's fix didn't apply, and all those components were in fine shape per their inspection. Nathan and Josh (service tech) said they both rode the bike and couldn't get it to act up in any way. That doesn't surprise me, it was at least 8,000 between bobbles on our trip last summer. So they told me put the Kenda on the rear, ride till I throw a code and bring it right back to them. They had me sit on the bike while they reset the SAS and YAW rate sensors, with some weight stacked on the rack to serve as luggage. They also installed the DESS key post and programmed my keys. Didn't charge me for anything, and were as kind, patient and respectful as they could be. This was at CC Powersports in Louisville KY, and based on my experience so far I'd recommend them to anybody. So I got on the bike and rode the 100 miles home and sure enough, the bike bobbled on that one particular curve coming in from town. Wouldn't you know it. :cus:

Sarah

the rear tire makes no difference. The bike doesn't know what brand tire is on the back, just the tire size itself matters. anyone, including BRP techs that say otherwise have no idea what they are talking about. Also, many of us are having the same issue with the stock crap kenda tires.. so it's not a rear tire issue. BRP gets really defensive about their deal with Kenda because the tires are junk.

I'm waiting for spring to hit so I can get more miles on mine. But after the last fix it seemed to be ok.

are your tire pressues right? if the front tires are low it can cause issues too. I run anywhere from 18-22 psi in the fronts depending on what kind of riding I want to do.

if your signals are not canceling that its the SAS sensor.

[greer]

Yes, I run my tires in that range, and I've had the left signal stay on at least twice. The shop guys knew it had nothing to do with the tire, but the Can Am rep asked for the details. The Ventus V2 is right at the wear indicators and I've got a near new factory rear in the garage so I'll mount it up and we'll see how it goes. Might as well use it up anyway. I'd just shut up and shell out for a new SAS if I knew it'd resolve the issue.

Sarah

[DickB]

I understand it's a trip for you, but it might pay to go back to your dealer, have them hook up BUDS, and read the SAS angle to see if it has strayed off zero.

[greer]

Hmm. That's a fine idea. I suppose I should put the factory tire back on first, otherwise that will be a hitch in things. Thank you very much, DickB.

Sarah

[DickB]

I understand that they're being a stickler about the tire, but that would have nothing to do with a bad SAS. Leave the tire as is, consider it a nice diversion ride, take it in and have them check (might as well check the yaw sensor as well).

[greer]

I swapped the tire out yesterday evening, but you are right. Thanks again, and I'll keep you posted.

Sarah

[greer]

I waited for temps to warm up a bit and headed out on the most roundabout route to the dealer I could find, right at 200 miles for the day. They said the YAW and SAS settings hadn't changed and were spot on. I'm going to try to quit pestering them for now and just ride the thing, they've shown endless patience and never charged a penny. I do want to note something based on my ride yesterday: I can still create the left turn wobble but it occurs at higher speeds and the sensation is much less exaggerated and frightening, a pleasant surprise and a big relief to me. It's more a jittery scoot feeling rather than a wild wobble, doesn't cause nearly the butt pucker. I turned around and made several passes thru that particular problem curve and the bike never acted up until I was riding twice the limit, 51 in a 25. So maybe the heavier rear tire was actually having an effect. One other factor, I did change the bushings in my front shocks, they were tattered with holes but not completely in two. I didn't have sense enough to think I was conducting an experiment, or I would have held off on the bushings.

Sarah

Edit: Per Hankook the Ventus V2 Concept 2 in 205/45 R16 weighs 18 lbs.

[DickB]

If you're riding at twice the limit for corners, stability control could be kicking in completely normal as designed.

[greer]

I'm thinking so too, DickB. I wish to goodness I'd thought to weigh the Kenda tire before I put it back on the bike.

Sarah

[blackphoenix38]

I did some riding over the weekend, put in over 100 miles. I had zero issues. I was able to do some nice left turn drifts as well. So whatever they did with the new SAS bushing is working, but I guess the question is how long will that last.

[greer]

That's good to hear blackphoenix38, thanks for the follow up. Are you still running the factory tire on the rear? Thanks again.

Sarah

[blackphoenix38]

That's good to hear blackphoenix38, thanks for the follow up. Are you still running the factory tire on the rear? Thanks again.

Sarah

yeah I'm running the stock tire until I do my clutch kit, then I'm swapping to a more grippy car tire. The kenda won't have the traction I need for the power I'll be putting down.

[greer]

OK, keep us posted please.

Sarah

[MarkN]

Little bit of an update. Got out on a 45 mile ride today on the most curvy roads I have. Not a problem and I was hitting the curves well above what it used to set the nanny off. So far, I’m very happy ��

[greer]

Good to hear. I’d like some suggestions for a proven rear tire in 205/45R16. I asked the service manager at the dealership about the Kenda Kanine, he then asked BRP and sent me a copy of the reply, the Kanine is not approved for use on the Ryker.

Sarah

[blackphoenix38]

so far everything on my ryker is fine. I've probably put a few hundred miles in at this point with no issues. Drifting it no problem and hitting fast turns.

it'll be interesting if this issue comes up again and what triggers it.