Survey : who has had the newest (recall) front sprocket fail?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

How many ( if any ) folks have the newest front sprocket and have had it FAIL .... if so how long did it last ???? .... Thanks .... Mike :thumbup:

[Peteoz]

How many ( if any ) folks have the newest front sprocket and have had it FAIL .... if so how long did it last ???? .... Thanks .... Mike :thumbup:

You’re going to have to be a bit careful with these results, Mike. There are a number of riders who believe (often after being told by their dealer) that the white sprocket, or a replacement sprocket of the old type, with loctite, is the “newest” (and recall fix) sprocket.

Pete

[pieman9155]

a fail to get one yet

[Mikey]

Rome was not built in one day!! The pizza isn't cooked yet. :popcorn:

[Cobwebs]

Askitee reported here that his had failed, thats the only one I know of so far. Perhaps members planning a trip to the dealers could ask.Shawn Smoak used to be a good source of info but hasn't posted for a year since his stroke.:dontknow: I have very little faith in the procedure for repair being followed correctly so expect this to be an ongoing problem and won't that be a nice little earner for BRP.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

You’re going to have to be a bit careful with these results, Mike. There are a number of riders who believe (often after being told by their dealer) that the white sprocket, or a replacement sprocket of the old type, with loctite, is the “newest” (and recall fix) sprocket.

Pete

I posted this question for ALL the folks who need to get theirs replaced because of RED DUST etc. .... I don't / won't have this issue because my 2014 ( early RT ) doesn't have the problem ( # 77,000 mi. no red dust ).... :agree: if the info isn't accurate the answers will be skeptical ..... Mike :thumbup:

[juscuz]

A friend had his front sprocket replaced with the newest version (stainless steel in color) a few months ago on his 2018 F3L under extended warranty. Mentioned to me the next day right after being done that the bike seemed different. Well on a ryde a few weeks ago the shaft from the trans had sheared off with the sprocket still attached lying on its side. At a dealership at the moment waiting for BRP's decision to repair or replace the tranny. Wondering if the torque was too much initially from the beginning. HMMMM. Thankfully the extended warranty is still good.

[Mikey]

I would have to say it was a faulty shaft. You never know how well steel is made unless you do a whole lot of testing before manufacturing, and then it does not take a very big flaw some time to have a break. To long in the oven on a heat treated part will make things brittle. :dontknow:

[Pirate]

A friend had his front sprocket replaced with the newest version (stainless steel in color) a few months ago on his 2018 F3L under extended warranty. Mentioned to me the next day right after being done that the bike seemed different. Well on a ryde a few weeks ago the shaft from the trans had sheared off with the sprocket still attached lying on its side. At a dealership at the moment waiting for BRP's decision to repair or replace the tranny. Wondering if the torque was too much initially from the beginning. HMMMM. Thankfully the extended warranty is still good.

I have heard about at least 3 2018's with sheared main shafts. It was faulty heat treating and BRP replaced under warranty.

[T.P.]

A friend had his front sprocket replaced with the newest version (stainless steel in color) a few months ago on his 2018 F3L under extended warranty. Mentioned to me the next day right after being done that the bike seemed different. Well on a ryde a few weeks ago the shaft from the trans had sheared off with the sprocket still attached lying on its side. At a dealership at the moment waiting for BRP's decision to repair or replace the tranny. Wondering if the torque was too much initially from the beginning. HMMMM. Thankfully the extended warranty is still good.

JUSCUZ, The SPROCKET RECALL has nothing to do with any extended warranty coverage.

T.P.

[T.P.]

askitee

Quote Originally Posted by T.P. View Post
HEY ASKITEE, I think you could clear this up in your mind and ours by posting all of the part numbers off of your dealers paperwork.
Your making claims for sprocket repair 4 times is unheard of and confusing.

I have posted the correct sprocket numbers in an above post and below for the sprocket recall.

COPY OF RECALL SERVICE BULLETIN, https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCRIT-22V352-1338.pdf

T.P.
I don't have the paperwork. I know the 2nd last sprocket replaced was the recall version, the one prior was the white one, and was told by the dealer the sprocket was done again this visit.

While ASKITEE posted this about his sprocket recall work, He has no paperwork from his dealer to prove what was done.
T.P.

[BajaRon]

Askitee reported here that his had failed, thats the only one I know of so far. Perhaps members planning a trip to the dealers could ask.Shawn Smoak used to be a good source of info but hasn't posted for a year since his stroke.:dontknow: I have very little faith in the procedure for repair being followed correctly so expect this to be an ongoing problem and won't that be a nice little earner for BRP.

Bingo! Loctite specifically states that the product used needs to sit for a minimum of 24 hours after install. But this is not being followed. Some customers ride away on their 'Fixed' sprocket within minutes of the job being done. We shall see how critical Loctite's specs turn out to be with this.

[Peteoz]

Bingo! Loctite specifically states that the product used needs to sit for a minimum of 24 hours after install. But this is not being followed. Some customers ride away on their 'Fixed' sprocket within minutes of the job being done. We shall see how critical Loctite's specs turn out to be with this.

Yep, yep, yep, Ron…….what a minefield…….and if/when Spyders start having issues with sprockets failing, I wonder how many riders will recall the issue with Loctite not being allowed to cure by some dealers. :gaah: …… and BRP will blame the dealers, and the dealers will blame BRP, and guess who’ll be caught in the middle……AGAIN:banghead:

Pete

[T.P.]

Yep, yep, yep, Ron…….what a minefield…….and if/when Spyders start having issues with sprockets failing, I wonder how many riders will recall the issue with Loctite not being allowed to cure by some dealers. :gaah: …… and BRP will blame the dealers, and the dealers will blame BRP, and guess who’ll be caught in the middle……AGAIN:banghead:

Pete

Pete

HEY PETE, You and Peter both got a copy of https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCRIT-22V352-1338.pdf and you both saw that there was no cure time listed
T.P.

[311tomcat]

Just had mine replaced a week ago; so far it's running smoothly. Had no problem from the original but figured why take a chance!

Take care, 311tomcat

[Peteoz]

HEY PETE, You and Peter both got a copy of https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCRIT-22V352-1338.pdf and you both saw that there was no cure time listed
T.P.

Yes, no cure times per se on that particular document, but it does say to use a particular Loctite, and the Loctite instructions include cure times, T.P. If the dealers have not read the Loctite “application instructions”, then that is negligence on their part, but I’m sure they will try to blame BRP for their own incompetence. Much angst will follow, with US caught in the middle.:sour:

Would you use a glue-like product without reading the manufacturers guidelines? I bet you wouldn’t, and neither would most here. But there have already been instances of dealers effecting the recall, either ignoring, or not reading, those guidelines :gaah:

Pete

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

HEY PETE, You and Peter both got a copy of https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCRIT-22V352-1338.pdf and you both saw that there was no cure time listed
T.P.

And do you think the US Gov't. couldn't possibly have SCREWED this up :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

[Cobwebs]

HEY PETE, You and Peter both got a copy of https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCRIT-22V352-1338.pdf and you both saw that there was no cure time listed
T.P.

No what size socket to use on the sprocket screw and to use an appropriate cleaner on the shaft splines also:banghead:. This is the most basic of stuff to any one that claims to be a mechanic if you need to have it spelt out that 603 takes 24hrs to set that the wrong size socket will wreck a bolt head and wiping down a surface with monkey spit will do for preparing a surface you need to reevaluate your career choice.

[askitee]

I am one of those. I am now on my 2nd V3.x sprocket

[Mikey]

:popcorn:

[Sarge707]

I am getting it done on 2015 F3 Thursday at 25,000 miles and do to lowering my tension to 145 Cricket 3 years ago I am still OK but told my dealer I will pick it up the day after so it cures at least 20-24 hours. They indicated they were letting them go the same day they are in stalled BUT I told them I didn't wait 3 years to not do it right.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember when I changed the tire that I just raised the swing arm and the belt peeled off pretty easy so they shouldn't have to mess with any tension changes?

[Peteoz]

I am getting it done on 2015 F3 Thursday at 25,000 miles and do to lowering my tension to 145 Cricket 3 years ago I am still OK but told my dealer I will pick it up the day after so it cures at least 20-24 hours. They indicated they were letting them go the same day they are in stalled BUT I told them I didn't wait 3 years to not do it right.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember when I changed the tire that I just raised the swing arm and the belt peeled off pretty easy so they shouldn't have to mess with any tension changes?

Sarge, you might be out of luck there. The BRP recall instructions tell the wrench to remove belt tension as per “belt adjustment” in the BRP manual, and after install, to set belt alignment and belt tension as per the “belt adjustment” section in the BRP manual. A couple of other riders have said they asked their dealer to set the tension to 140, but they refused, as the Spyder has to leave the dealer set to the mandated, much higher, tension shown in the manual.:spyder:

Pete

[ned64]

When I Took my wife '19 F3L in for the last an finale sprocket fix. I ask them if it needs to sit over night for loctite to cure. Nope they said. Takes about an hour to change sprocket an your ready to go. No need to let it sit an cure.

[pauly1]

If one reads the data for Loctite 648, the cure is dependent on material (in this case steel), gap between fitted parts, and temperature. 50% cure strength is achieved in 1 hour @ 22C (72F) with a gap of 0.05mm (0.002"), with 90% strength @ 24 hours. [https://docs.rs-online.com/5d25/0900766b800b9992.pdf]. If the shaft was worn, creating a larger gap (0.25mm/0.010"), the material will only achieve 65-70% of design strength.

Of the 3 F3 models we had done at our local dealer, all came back with the lower range belt tension and 2 of the 3 had the belt properly aligned. One failed at ~20K miles, which I replaced. One had over 35K miles with no issues. The third only had 4K miles at the time of the recall completion. We don't have enough data on longevity of the fix, with only about 5K miles on the fix.

[blacklightning]

I posted this question for ALL the folks who need to get theirs replaced because of RED DUST etc. .... I don't / won't have this issue because my 2014 ( early RT ) doesn't have the problem ( # 77,000 mi. no red dust )
Funny that you should mention that. I had the recall done on mine, but had a conversation with the repair shop during the process. Although they have done some repairs because of the red dust, most of their repairs and failures in their shop were from the older RSS and RT models with the V-twin. He tends to think that it is the luck of the draw as to whether there is a failure or not. Mainly caused by incorrect assembly in the manufacturing process.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Funny that you should mention that. I had the recall done on mine, but had a conversation with the repair shop during the process. Although they have done some repairs because of the red dust, most of their repairs and failures in their shop were from the older RSS and RT models with the V-twin. He tends to think that it is the luck of the draw as to whether there is a failure or not. Mainly caused by incorrect assembly in the manufacturing process.

Interesting ...... You've been here almost as long as I, but I don't recall the " V-Twin " Spyder's as having SPROCKET issues. ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

[Cobwebs]

If one reads the data for Loctite 648, the cure is dependent on material (in this case steel), gap between fitted parts, and temperature. 50% cure strength is achieved in 1 hour @ 22C (72F) with a gap of 0.05mm (0.002"), with 90% strength @ 24 hours. [https://docs.rs-online.com/5d25/0900766b800b9992.pdf]. If the shaft was worn, creating a larger gap (0.25mm/0.010"), the material will only achieve 65-70% of design strength.



Loctite 609 is what is stated to use.

[Freddy]

Interesting ...... You've been here almost as long as I, but I don't recall the " V-Twin " Spyder's as having SPROCKET issues. ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

See reply 3 :cheers:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?148321-2009-Front-Sprocket-WHAT-shape-are-the-teeth-on-the-shaft&p=1629367#post1629367

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

See reply 3 :cheers:

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?148321-2009-Front-Sprocket-WHAT-shape-are-the-teeth-on-the-shaft&p=1629367#post1629367

Thanks for that ..... I guess the reason I didn't recall those posts was because it was posted in ..... 2010 ..... I wasn't here until 2011. ..... Mike :thumbup:

[Freddy]

Thanks for that ..... I guess the reason I didn't recall those posts was because it was posted in ..... 2010 ..... I wasn't here until 2011. ..... Mike :thumbup:

It was May last year that you replied to and acknowledged those earlier threads. :coffee:

[askitee]

askitee

Quote Originally Posted by T.P. View Post
HEY ASKITEE, I think you could clear this up in your mind and ours by posting all of the part numbers off of your dealers paperwork.
Your making claims for sprocket repair 4 times is unheard of and confusing.

I have posted the correct sprocket numbers in an above post and below for the sprocket recall.

COPY OF RECALL SERVICE BULLETIN, https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/202...2V352-1338.pdf

T.P.
I don't have the paperwork. I know the 2nd last sprocket replaced was the recall version, the one prior was the white one, and was told by the dealer the sprocket was done again this visit.

While ASKITEE posted this about his sprocket recall work, He has no paperwork from his dealer to prove what was done.
T.P.

The question was asked on the forum and I replied, and there is no confusion in my mind. Once I've had a chance to read the paperwork I don't keep it.


The original was replaced with the White Painted Sprocket
The next was the recall, the then service manager indicated he'd get it done while in for the service (cant recall if it was 60K or 75K).
The last was while it was in for some insurance work + Wheel alignment a month or so ago (84k Kms). The Wheel alignment didn't get done because they had to redo the sprocket.


Additionally I have just received another recall letter from BRP. I might email the workshop and see if they can offer come details.

[blacklightning]

Interesting ...... You've been here almost as long as I, but I don't recall the " V-Twin " Spyder's as having SPROCKET issues. ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:
I mentioned that to them also. Saying that I thought it was a sprocket on the 1330's issue. But he assured me that he had done more repairs on the older models. But this was also when I was having the repairs done on my 2016 F3T, which is when they were using the white sprocket. I know that another has come out since then, and is the one that they used on my 2016 F3L. Not making it up, just sharing the information that was provided to me.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

It was May last year that you replied to and acknowledged those earlier threads. :coffee:

Thanks for this also .... I APOLOGIZE for any and all errors I make due to age related memory loss :bowdown: .... One of the wonderful things that a few members here do is monitor posts and threads by other members and correct any errors they find ....... again Thank you for your diligence :clap::clap::clap:..... Mike :thumbup:

[acdcking12]

I was planning on getting the recall done while it is in there for a Spark plug change. But I have the white sprocket that I had put on 2 years ago. And the white sprocket has no red dust. Maybe I need to not get the sprocket replaced.

[Peteoz]

I was planning on getting the recall done while it is in there for a Spark plug change. But I have the white sprocket that I had put on 2 years ago. And the white sprocket has no red dust. Maybe I need to not get the sprocket replaced.

Did you get a recall notice, acdc? If not, then there is definitely no need. But if you did, you really should take it in for the mandatory recall, otherwise you may find it declared “not roadworthy” at some point.

Pete

[Freddy]

Thanks for this also .... I APOLOGIZE for any and all errors I make due to age related memory loss :bowdown: .... snip>:

You and me both. :agree:

[acdcking12]

Did you get a recall notice, acdc? If not, then there is definitely no need. But if you did, you really should take it in for the mandatory recall, otherwise you may find it declared “not roadworthy” at some point.

Pete

I did get the recall notice. But since that time, I just check it once a month and no red dust at all. Nice and clean. That was why maybe I shouldn't let them screw it up possibly when I have a perfectly good working sprocket as it is. :-)

[Peteoz]

I did get the recall notice. But since that time, I just check it once a month and no red dust at all. Nice and clean. That was why maybe I shouldn't let them screw it up possibly when I have a perfectly good working sprocket as it is. :-)

Yeah, I completely understand that very understandable logic, acdc. But not having a mandatory safety recall done may bite you on the bum a little later on.;)

Pete

[WRCLVR]

So is the correct Loctite 609 or the 648? Does it come with the recall sprocket ? Can we conform for all to read ... and the correct cure time is 24 hours to achieve the correct bond?

Lastly, should we be insisting that the dealer/ installer leave it set over night as per the BRP instructions, not just the vague NHTSA recall one?

OT but it seems to me that we should also be insisting that pics of the removal and install including bolt and spacer be taken to ensure they actually do it correctly...

What do you guys think?

[mandytuning]

Also,is responsibility of tech to check the expiration date of the Loctite before use. Things like that and cure times is not on job plans or bulletins cause is common sense of a real tech to read instructions of the chemical products they work on.

[Cobwebs]

So is the correct Loctite 609 or the 648? Does it come with the recall sprocket ? Can we conform for all to read ... and the correct cure time is 24 hours to achieve the correct bond?

Lastly, should we be insisting that the dealer/ installer leave it set over night as per the BRP instructions, not just the vague NHTSA recall one?

OT but it seems to me that we should also be insisting that pics of the removal and install including bolt and spacer be taken to ensure they actually do it correctly...

What do you guys think?

These are the questions a lawyer would be asking BRP in the event of a compensation claim for damages arising from further pulley failures. Some dealerships have live video of any work but I'm unaware of any in my area.

[EdMat]

I'm more worried that the tech will not do a good cleaning job before installation than the down time before use. Many will have a good coating of moly on the splines and if not cleaned off completely it won't matter how long you let it set.

[T.P.]

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCRIT-22V352-1338.pdf

This is still the last information on the sprocket recall at 317 days old. LOTS of miss-information still being posted here.

https://datasheets.tdx.henkel.com/LOCTITE-609-en_US.pdf

T.P.

[Peteoz]

So is the correct Loctite 609 or the 648? Does it come with the recall sprocket ? Can we conform for all to read ... and the correct cure time is 24 hours to achieve the correct bond?


Your first question is answered on the Recall notice itself posted above, WRCLVR - it is 609 or 603 (603 is the global version). The correct cure time is whatever is displayed as the application instructions on those products.

Pete

[Cobwebs]

TYPICAL PERFORMANCE OF CURED MATERIAL
Adhesive Properties
After 24 hours @ 22 °C
Compressive Shear Strength, ISO 10123:
Steel pins and collars N/mm² ≥15.8LMS
(psi) (≥2,290)
After 1 hour @ 22 °C
Compressive Shear Strength, ISO 10123:
Steel pins and collars N/mm² ≥10.3LMS
(psi) (≥1,490)


So in simple terms half as strong again at 24 hours v riding off after 1 hour.

[Peteoz]

TYPICAL PERFORMANCE OF CURED MATERIAL
Adhesive Properties
After 24 hours @ 22 °C
Compressive Shear Strength, ISO 10123:
Steel pins and collars N/mm² ≥15.8LMS
(psi) (≥2,290)
After 1 hour @ 22 °C
Compressive Shear Strength, ISO 10123:
Steel pins and collars N/mm² ≥10.3LMS
(psi) (≥1,490)


So in simple terms half as strong again at 24 hours v riding off after 1 hour.

Very interesting, Cobwebs. Hopefully, 1490 will be strong enough to prevent issues :thumbup:

Pete.