Diesel engine oil in a gasoline engine? Check here.

[Gekko]

So many people are extolling the benefits of Shell Rotella T6 in their motorcycles that I had to find out more. (By the way, I found it at Walmart last week and the SN rating is no longer on the bottle. It has ratings of CK-4 and JASO MA2.)

Here's what I found:
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30677/engine-oil-differences

Look especially for what is mentioned about what friction modifiers and detergents in diesel engine oil can do to catalytic converters and piston rings in gasoline engines.

This was also enlightening about oil in general:
https://addinol.de/en/products/lubricants-for-the-automotive-sector/engine-oil/specifications/

I hope you find it as interesting/informative as I did.

[FrogmanDave]

Both links are interesting reading for sure.

[EdMat]

Have not seen anyone extolling the benefits of T6 as much as recommending it as just a great oil for our use that happens to be very cost competitive. Sadly, what most folks fail to realize is that ANY decent oil, changed on at least the recommended intervals will carry their Spyder for way more miles than they will put on them. I use T6, I plan to put more than 100,000 miles on mine.....almost halfway there....I don't plan on having ANY oil related problems.

BTW, maybe I should note, have used 10's of thousands of gallons of various Rotella line products over the years.

[BajaRon]

So many people are extolling the benefits of Shell Rotella T6 in their motorcycles that I had to find out more. (By the way, I found it at Walmart last week and the SN rating is no longer on the bottle. It has ratings of CK-4 and JASO MA2.)

Here's what I found:
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30677/engine-oil-differences

Look especially for what is mentioned about what friction modifiers and detergents in diesel engine oil can do to catalytic converters and piston rings in gasoline engines.

This was also enlightening about oil in general:
https://addinol.de/en/products/lubricants-for-the-automotive-sector/engine-oil/specifications/

I hope you find it as interesting/informative as I did.

Excellent information! People talk about 'Follow the Science'. Well, you've given all of us a reason to do so. I find the Cold Start viscosities quite interesting. 5w is good down to -31 Fahrenheit. How many of us start or Spyders with engine oil at that temperature? Snowmobile... Sure. Spyder? I don't think so. This is why I recommend a 10/40 oil. Narrowing the spread between low and high viscosities strengthens the lubricant and it resists shear better. Transmission shear is what kills oil in the Spyder.

Even 15w oil is good down to -13 degrees Fahrenheit. Again, it's science. We have the option to take it or leave it.

[mandytuning]

I haven't read the links but will say A thing people never take in account is oil foaming , diesel oil are not design for high rpms. They create way more foam than regular oil.

[Jdr00ejr]

Excellent information! People talk about 'Follow the Science'. Well, you've given all of us a reason to do so. I find the Cold Start viscosities quite interesting. 5w is good down to -31 Fahrenheit. How many of us start or Spyders with engine oil at that temperature? Snowmobile... Sure. Spyder? I don't think so. This is why I recommend a 10/40 oil. Narrowing the spread between low and high viscosities strengthens the lubricant and it resists shear better. Transmission shear is what kills oil in the Spyder.

Even 15w oil is good down to -13 degrees Fahrenheit. Again, it's science. We have the option to take it or leave it.

I realize that I'm an odd duck and not the norm - but I have ridden in -13F. Not sure I'd like to be on the fringe of 15w. ;-) I'm quite happy with the 5W40 recommended by BRP (though I do use T6 LOL!).

[BajaRon]

I realize that I'm an odd duck and not the norm - but I have ridden in -13F. Not sure I'd like to be on the fringe of 15w. ;-) I'm quite happy with the 5W40 recommended by BRP (though I do use T6 LOL!).

Riding in -13F and starting your engine with the engine oil at -13F are 2 different things. Most garage their Spyder. Most garages never get that cold. Once you start the engine it doesn't matter what the outside temps are. The thermostat in the cooling system keeps things well above ambient temps.

10w is good down to -22F. Again, this is the temperature of your oil at start-up. Not the ambient air temp while you're riding. The only reason BRP recommends 5/40 for the Spyder is because that is what they sell. Not necessarily what is best for the machine.

Your engine lives 99.9% of its life at operating temperature. Having a narrower spread between the low and high viscosities increases the oil's ability to protect the otherwise metal to metal components.

[Jdr00ejr]

Riding in -13F and starting your engine with the engine oil at -13F are 2 different things. Most garage their Spyder. Most garages never get that cold. Once you start the engine it doesn't matter what the outside temps are. The thermostat in the cooling system keeps things well above ambient temps. ....

Not everyone rides from their garage to their garage. And yes, I do realize that once at operating temp - it will take quite a while for the oil temp to drop all the way back down to ambient temp. Just saying - that it could be that cold when the engine starts. Yes, I do realize it's an odd rarity and not relevant to most people - I stated in my first post I'm a bit of an odd duck. ;-)


...... The only reason BRP recommends 5/40 for the Spyder is because that is what they sell. Not necessarily what is best for the machine.

Your engine lives 99.9% of it's life at operating temperature. Having a narrower spread between the low and high viscosities increases the oil's ability to protect the otherwise metal to metal components.

I completely understand that companies do many things to bolster their sales. I have not done the research to know if 5w40 is the only oil that BRP sells - so I can't speak to your theory of them recommending it only because they sell it.

The science makes sense as explained and folks are certainly free to do whatever they want. That said, regardless of the reason why they recommend 5w40 - that's what they put in their machines, recommend for their machines, and warranty their machines based on those engineering design specs. I guess I'm just saying - to each their own, but I'm not swayed enough to deter from the 5w40 that is working great for me. YMMV

[BajaRon]

Not everyone rides from their garage to their garage. And yes, I do realize that once at operating temp - it will take quite a while for the oil temp to drop all the way back down to ambient temp. Just saying - that it could be that cold when the engine starts. Yes, I do realize it's an odd rarity and not relevant to most people - I stated in my first post I'm a bit of an odd duck. ;-)



I completely understand that companies do many things to bolster their sales. I have not done the research to know if 5w40 is the only oil that BRP sells - so I can't speak to your theory of them recommending it only because they sell it.

The science makes sense as explained and folks are certainly free to do whatever they want. That said, regardless of the reason why they recommend 5w40 - that's what they put in their machines, recommend for their machines, and warranty their machines based on those engineering design specs. I guess I'm just saying - to each their own, but I'm not swayed enough to deter from the 5w40 that is working great for me. YMMV

Understood.

BRP does make a 0/40 fully synthetic oil. More targeted towards the snowmobile than the 5/40 blended. These oils make sense for a snowmobile, and to you, it appears.

[Ex-Rocket]

I'll stick with what BajaRon recommends. I have been using Amsoil for years in my Spyders. Who wants to go cheap on oil, not me.

[Knizar]

I'll stick with what BajaRon recommends. I have been using Amsoil for years in my Spyders. Who wants to go cheap on oil, not me.

:agree: Amsoil 10w40 is my go to Spyder oil

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Have not seen anyone extolling the benefits of T6 as much as recommending it as just a great oil for our use that happens to be very cost competitive. Sadly, what most folks fail to realize is that ANY decent oil, changed on at least the recommended intervals will carry their Spyder for way more miles than they will put on them. I use T6, I plan to put more than 100,000 miles on mine.....almost halfway there....I don't plan on having ANY oil related problems.

BTW, maybe I should note, have used 10's of thousands of gallons of various Rotella line products over the years.

" any decent oil " ..... there are lots of decent oils being sold .....HOWEVER - a lot of them are NOT friendly to our CLUTCHES .... JMHO ...Mike :thumbup:

[EdMat]

" any decent oil " ..... there are lots of decent oils being sold .....HOWEVER - a lot of them are NOT friendly to our CLUTCHES .... JMHO ...Mike :thumbup:

Mike, I hope that the wet clutch compatible would be a given. If not, it would be shortly.

[Cobwebs]

I've noticed more oils these days that were once designated not for motorcycle use now have the JASO rating so are clutch friendly. That being said I was searching Penrite's website for an alternative oil for my Harley and found an example, but on closer inspection they still say not recommended and point towards their actual motorcycle range without explanation. Not being a chemical engineer, I think only for emergency use would I use their 2nd best choice.

[Cobwebs]

Excellent information! People talk about 'Follow the Science'. Well, you've given all of us a reason to do so. I find the Cold Start viscosities quite interesting. 5w is good down to -31 Fahrenheit. How many of us start or Spyders with engine oil at that temperature? Snowmobile... Sure. Spyder? I don't think so. This is why I recommend a 10/40 oil. Narrowing the spread between low and high viscosities strengthens the lubricant and it resists shear better. Transmission shear is what kills oil in the Spyder.

Even 15w oil is good down to -13 degrees Fahrenheit. Again, it's science. We have the option to take it or leave it.

How would that affect the cold start oil pressure though? Is there a bypass valve somewhere that would go all funky and possibly cause filter damage? :dontknow: Wasn't there some issue years ago with the filters or did I dream that?

[BajaRon]

How would that affect the cold start oil pressure though? Is there a bypass valve somewhere that would go all funky and possibly cause filter damage? :dontknow: Wasn't there some issue years ago with the filters or did I dream that?

All modern oil pressure systems have an overpressure bypass valve. I assume that the Rotax is fitted with this feature. But unless you are getting down to the lower limits of the oil's viscosity range (-22F for 10w), then this is not going to be a concern. Especially with a genuine, full synthetic oil, as this product has a better flow rate when cold than blended or standard oils. But again, we are talking REALLY cold oil at start-up. Temperatures that most Spyders never see.

[Mikey]

I realize that I'm an odd duck and not the norm - but I have ridden in -13F. Not sure I'd like to be on the fringe of 15w. ;-) I'm quite happy with the 5W40 recommended by BRP (though I do use T6 LOL!).

:bowdown::bowdown::2thumbs:

[Knizar]

I realize that I'm an odd duck and not the norm - but I have ridden in -13F. Not sure I'd like to be on the fringe of 15w. ;-) I'm quite happy with the 5W40 recommended by BRP (though I do use T6 LOL!).

If you can get your Spyder to fire-up and idle at -10F, have at at, you will be good to go. Keep watching in the mirror for that van following you with the tight fitting white jacket!:roflblack:...:thumbup: Bill

[Gwolf]

Live where it never gets below zero...... problem solved.

[BertRemington]

Cobweb's mention of Penrite reminded me that the 1330cc motor has TWO clutches: one is the engine-gearbox multi-plate clutch and the other is the engine-alternator clutch.

The alternator clutch is needed because a powerful engine with minimal flywheel and gear-drive of an automotive-size (1.2KW= 1.6HP) alternator creates significant shock loads when engine speed changes. Cars have elastic drive belts with damping idlers and many (most?) motorcycles have small permanent magnet alternators so they don't need a clutch or other shock damper.

The alternator clutch is sensitive to oil as Cobweb discovered with Penrite. The symptom is squeaking shortly after the engine is started after several days or weeks of non-use. The battery is low and the alternator is charging it at a high rate which means high HP which means high torque on the alternator clutch. You might notice it also when steering at low speeds when the DPS imposes a high load, especially with the 2014-2015 models with the high current DPS (later models used higher gearing for lower current). Being steel-to-steel it squeaks. And the clutch does wear with mileage.

Can it be adjusted? The service manual implies it can but says the remedy is replacement. And when my squeaking gets concerning I have a spare. Cobweb's solution was to drain the Penrite and use another brand.

Another misunderstanding is thinking the alternator voltage drops at idle speed. Not happening. The field strength is increased to match the load, the ECM observes this load matching and increases the idle speed to match. If you aren't observing at least 14 volts (actually I would say 14.2V) at idle then your charging system (probably your battery) is marginal. Doesn't matter how much heated gear, lights, radio, etc you have -- that alternator will handle it across the entire RPM range.

As I've said before the alternator output is lower at high RPM than low RPM. I suspect the reason is improving gas mileage.

[Wrongway]

Thanks Bert. Because I’m a non mechanical person are you saying that it may be the alternator needing replaced?

[BertRemington]

Nope your alternator is good (they're very reliable).

The alternator has a heavy interior rotating mass (the rotor) whose magnetic field induces current in the outer fixed wire windings (the stator). It takes engine power to rotate the rotor, about 1 hp per 1 kw accounting for losses. Unlike a car, the Spyder alternator is gear-driven. When your engine speed increases or decreases rapidly, the rotor mass must be accelerated or decelerated accordingly. The shock load can be harmful to the rotor and its bearings, so BRP inserts a friction clutch between the gear drive and the rotor. It's likely this clutch is the source of your squeak.

If your battery is keeping a charge and you are using a BRP or one of our sponsors' oil, then don't worry until it becomes a continuous squeal. If you are uncertain about your oil, change it along with the HCM filter using supplies from our sponsors. It's a good thing to do that for a "new" machine that's 8 years old anyway. Along with brake fluid, engine coolant, and tires.

The squeak may have other sources but someone else can suggest them.