buell - engine for the new RT ??

[chris56]

as buell stopped their production .. what will rotax do with this 1125 - v2 which is perfect engineered - a little stronger than "our" ones ..
maybe they could use it for the new RT - to bring a little different to the two modells - couldn`t be a problem before their production start..
chris

[LittleJohn]

The only issue with this is that the engine in question I believe is propietary to Buell / HD. Im sure HD still owns the rights to it, and would probably sell them if the opportunity arose. But why would BRP buy back the rights when they have an engine that already fits and is proven???

I just dont see an engine upgrade comin in the near future.

[BillGargan]

There seems to be a cadre of folks that keep calling for a new or different engine. It is not clear to me whether this is a small fraction or a large fraction of owners.

The one we have -- at least as I see it -- can practically rip the handlebars out of your hand if you are aggressive enough.

The Spyder is not a racing bike and seems fine to me as it is.

What is it that would be expected from a new or different engine? More power? Why?

[NancysToy]

There seems to be a cadre of folks that keep calling for a new or different engine. It is not clear to me whether this is a small fraction or a large fraction of owners.

The one we have -- at least as I see it -- can practically rip the handlebars out of your hand if you are aggressive enough.

The Spyder is not a racing bike and seems fine to me as it is.

What is it that would be expected from a new or different engine? More power? Why?
:thumbup: :agree:

[fastfraser]

There seems to be a cadre of folks that keep calling for a new or different engine. It is not clear to me whether this is a small fraction or a large fraction of owners.

The one we have -- at least as I see it -- can practically rip the handlebars out of your hand if you are aggressive enough.

The Spyder is not a racing bike and seems fine to me as it is.

What is it that would be expected from a new or different engine? More power? Why?


Pull a trailer, ride two-up, go faster or just because !!!!!!!:2thumbs:

[Cruisin Dave]

If I go to an RT from this...

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll2/Cruisin32/Trike/36Right_1a.jpg

...I'll be giving up 255hp and 320lbft of torque! :yikes:

However, I also ride this....

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll2/Cruisin32/Valkyrie/vLR3.jpg

...which is "only" 110hp and weighs about 850lbs dry. It moves quite quickly (not as fast as the Boss, obviously!) and it's only slightly lighter than the RT.

I think the RT will have plenty of power for it's intended use, but us old hot rodders always want MORE! :roflblack:

[BRPjunkie]

Let's face it, power sells, if it's needed and usable is irrelevant. I can't imagine any real world situation where the Rotax 990 would not allow me to respond to a situation that more HP would help. I have scared myself a couple of times with how fast this thing comes on. That said, why do the Triumph Rocket III, Suzuki Hayabusa and Star V-Max sell, power. If they squeezed the V-Max V4 in the Spyder, some would want more.

[Longlegs]

Hi Cruisin Dave
I see your pics at Lake of the Woods and that is 3 miles from my house.

[Cruisin Dave]

longlegs,

We live over by Spring Lake, exactly 3 miles from the Mahomet Super Pantry. We should get together sometime. I assume you have a Spyder? I've heard of sightings of a black one and a pink one in the Champaign/Mahomet area....

[aka1004]

There seems to be a cadre of folks that keep calling for a new or different engine. It is not clear to me whether this is a small fraction or a large fraction of owners.

The one we have -- at least as I see it -- can practically rip the handlebars out of your hand if you are aggressive enough.

The Spyder is not a racing bike and seems fine to me as it is.

What is it that would be expected from a new or different engine? More power? Why?

i do want little more zip out of my spyder, especially with RT.
if you do not need/want more power/quickness that's your opinion/taste.
why bash others who do? i don't get it.
if you are entitled to your opinion and others are too...
it's been said RT in fact is not as quick as GS and i don't know until i test drive a RT if i can live with less performance. i am guessing engine probably is just good enough for what it was intended for but not good enough for some. i am sorry if it sounds a little brash but i really couldn't find a politically correct or nice way to say this but every ryder has his own taste/needs/wants.

[jwfranklin]

The two things you can never have to much of, Clevage & Horsepower. IMO

[aka1004]

The two things you can never have to much of, Clevage & Horsepower. IMO

can not agree more:2thumbs:
no matter how much there are, there is always room for more.:D
plus no matter how good or how much power you have, you eventually get used to it and start looking for other way to improve.:yes:

[NancysToy]

There seems to be a cadre of folks that keep calling for a new or different engine. It is not clear to me whether this is a small fraction or a large fraction of owners.

The one we have -- at least as I see it -- can practically rip the handlebars out of your hand if you are aggressive enough.

The Spyder is not a racing bike and seems fine to me as it is.

What is it that would be expected from a new or different engine? More power? Why?


i do want little more zip out of my spyder, especially with RT.
if you do not need/want more power/quickness that's your opinion/taste.
why bash others who do? i don't get it.
if you are entitled to your opinion and others are too...
it's been said RT in fact is not as quick as GS and i don't know until i test drive a RT if i can live with less performance. i am guessing engine probably is just good enough for what it was intended for but not good enough for some. i am sorry if it sounds a little brash but i really couldn't find a politically correct or nice way to say this but every ryder has his own taste/needs/wants.
Explain to me why Bill's very simple, civil post, which did nothing but express his opinion, is bashing just because his opinion differs from yours. Sorry, I agree with your idea, but I do not appreciate the way you put it. If you want to state something like this, don't quote someone else to flame them. That's rude.

[aka1004]

Explain to me why Bill's very simple, civil post, which did nothing but express his opinion, is bashing just because his opinion differs from yours. Sorry, I agree with your idea, but I do not appreciate the way you put it. If you want to state something like this, don't quote someone else to flame them. That's rude.

this is not the first time he has bash/put down ryders who wants more zip/power on their spyder. i was just gonna let it go but it's been bothering me.
he was not just making his opinion known. he is questioning other ryders judgement on what they want/need just becasue HE feels spyder does not need any more power. The impression i got from his prior reply on this issue were "spyder is just fine in stock form and does not need any mod" (actually this is exactly what he posted) and those who want/need more than spyder is out of your skull and just plain unnecessary(my impression)

He does not need/get to tell other ryders what they need and want.
If he just posted "i like my spyder just as is but everyone is different"
without keep questioning other ryders wants/needs, there is no issue.

if one of the regular ryder here does a paint mod that's not your cup of the tea, will you post "man that sucks"? most likely, you are just gonna just let it go.

i would appreciate it if he would let his opinion known but refrain from stating what other ryders want/need is NOT right or necessary.

[jwfranklin]

this is not the first time he has bash/put down ryders who wants more zip/power on their spyder. i was just gonna let it go but it's been bothering me.
he was not just making his opinion known. he is questioning other ryders judgement on what they want/need just becasue HE feels spyder does not need any more power. The impression i got from his prior reply on this issue were "spyder is just fine in stock form and does not need any mod" (actually this is exactly what he posted) and those who want/need more than spyder is out of your skull and just plain unnecessary(my impression)

He does not need/get to tell other ryders what they need and want.
If he just posted "i like my spyder just as is but everyone is different"
without keep questioning other ryders wants/needs, there is no issue.

if one of the regular ryder here does a paint mod that's not your cup of the tea, will you post "man that sucks"? most likely, you are just gonna just let it go.

i would appreciate it if he would let his opinion known but refrain from what other ryders want/need is NOT right or necessary.


:agree:

[BLACK WIDOW]

this is not the first time he has bash/put down ryders who wants more zip/power on their spyder. i was just gonna let it go but it's been bothering me.
he was not just making his opinion known. he is questioning other ryders judgement on what they want/need just becasue HE feels spyder does not need any more power. The impression i got from his prior reply on this issue were "spyder is just fine in stock form and does not need any mod" (actually this is exactly what he posted) and those who want/need more than spyder is out of your skull and just plain unnecessary(my impression)

He does not need/get to tell other ryders what they need and want.
If he just posted "i like my spyder just as is but everyone is different"
without keep questioning other ryders wants/needs, there is no issue.

if one of the regular ryder here does a paint mod that's not your cup of the tea, will you post "man that sucks"? most likely, you are just gonna just let it go.

i would appreciate it if he would let his opinion known but refrain from stating what other ryders want/need is NOT right or necessary.

I am also an advocate of a larger/torquier engine for the RT. (I am sure they will come out with one in a year or so.) That is what I believe based on my preferences and riding experience. I did not take any issues at all with what Bill wrote and although I don't agree with the point he made, that doesn't make his point wrong; just different than my opinion. I rather enjoy reading the points that differ from mine. If after hearing other opinions and after a little research I may just jump on their bandwagon.:thumbup:


Michael;)

[DannyS]

The Buell 1125 engine is nice, because the prices are so low ($6350) at the local Harley dealer I was thinking of getting one until I realized I would need a stepladder to get on. I was reading the posts on a Buell forum and they were talking about the new ECM update and that it was suppose to get better gas mileage (they get 34 to 37) and how it is suppose to get rid of the stumbling below 4000 revs. How the engine did not come alive until around 5500 revs. Does all this sound familiar??? Leave us not forget that the current 1000 also made 143 HP(the 1125 makes 147) and by the time they "groomed it for the Spyder" it now makes 106. I see nothing to suggest that just upping the displacement 200 CC would be much improvement. Of course it does have three rotating counter weights to smooth out the engine. They were talking about how smooth it is. But they were also complaining that the mirrors were useless to much vibration!:chat: By the way I also think the power is fine. But if people want to soup it or get a stronger motor "More Power to Them" (Pun intended). It would be a sad day if everyone wanted to drive the same thing. Just remember horsepower means money. How fast can you afford?:2thumbs:

[BillGargan]

i do want little more zip out of my spyder, especially with RT.
if you do not need/want more power/quickness that's your opinion/taste.
why bash others who do? i don't get it.
if you are entitled to your opinion and others are too...
it's been said RT in fact is not as quick as GS and i don't know until i test drive a RT if i can live with less performance. i am guessing engine probably is just good enough for what it was intended for but not good enough for some. i am sorry if it sounds a little brash but i really couldn't find a politically correct or nice way to say this but every ryder has his own taste/needs/wants.
I have reviewed my post. Who did I bash and how?

[NancysToy]

I have reviewed my post. Who did I bash and how?
Still puzzled over that one, myself.

[jwfranklin]

I have reviewed my post. Who did I bash and how?


In this post you you ask what do we want from another engine, power?, why? I take it saying we are stupid for wanting more power, My other 3 wheeler has an 6280cc engine with over 450hp, still not enough. I'm not much younger than you (61) and I come from the HOT ROD generation were we put Chevy V8's in MG's, where we would blow engines up one weekend to build another and be back on the street the next weekend. Not particularly in this post but in others, you seem to want to tell us what we need. Nobody but me can tell me that. If you don't seek speed and power, and your Spyder has enough I'm fine with that. I can never have enough. State your own opinion, but don't question and put mine down

[NancysToy]

In this post you you ask what do we want from another engine, power?, why? I take it saying we are stupid for wanting more power, My other 3 wheeler has an 6280cc engine with over 450hp, still not enough. I'm not much younger than you (61) and I come from the HOT ROD generation were we put Chevy V8's in MG's, where we would blow engines up one weekend to build another and be back on the street the next weekend. Not particularly in this post but in others, you seem to want to tell us what we need. Nobody but me can tell me that. If you don't seek speed and power, and your Spyder has enough I'm fine with that. I can never have enough. State your own opinion, but don't question and put mine down
Please don't read between the lines. That certainly wasn't said in this post. No reason to personally attack another member here that merely expressed an opinion. There's room for all of us here.

BTW, mine was a Chevy V-8 in a Bug-eyed Sprite. :D

[chris56]

I plan to ride an RT next season - could not really test it till now (hope the next days..) - but
max 100 mls per hour !! (160kmh) .. not enough for here (in europe) - if i use the "autobahn" i do 110 or so - its also a question of the image..
lets read the first comparison-tests with goldwing/BMW-LT aso
you will see that everyone will write .. the engine does not fit to the weight/outfit/price and marketplace...of the RT
BRP is the 100% owner of the ROTAX-Factory - my idea was that they have this 1125 engine finished - nobody needs that now - the price & size/ gearbox is around the same - why not build it in the new RT...
also if there are only 10% more torque ( HP-doesn`t matter to me) it would be easier to sell it on the side of "our" GS-spyder..
but don`t know how fast they could do that..
chris

[BRPjunkie]

Anyone who really wants to power up should try to find one of the nine Dodge Tomahawks sold through Nieman Marcus a few years back. Only $550,000 then. Technically not a motorcycle due to 4 wheel design and therefore legally can't be ridden on the road. V-10, 500 hp, 525 lb-ft torque, 0 - 60 2.5 sec, 1,500 lbs. Reportedly a theoretical top speed of 400 mph. That should be enough power for most anyone.

[dltang]

Anyone who really wants to power up should try to find one of the nine Dodge Tomahawks sold through Nieman Marcus a few years back. Only $550,000 then. Technically not a motorcycle due to 4 wheel design and therefore legally can't be ridden on the road. V-10, 500 hp, 525 lb-ft torque, 0 - 60 2.5 sec, 1,500 lbs. Reportedly a theoretical top speed of 400 mph. That should be enough power for most anyone.

Here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtlLmz11uc0

[Director]

Pull a trailer, ride two-up, go faster or just because !!!!!!!:2thumbs:

I think it was Aristotle Onassis who said, "You can never be Too Tan, Too Rich or Too Thin."
I don't know about that, but I would say, "You can never have too much horsepower!" :clap::D

Bruce

[3wheeldemon]

I have reviewed my post. Who did I bash and how?

Is the badass look of your avatar:http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/image.php?u=3693&dateline=1251132456 (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?u=3693)

If you read the same post looking at:http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/image.php?u=3487&dateline=1241286797 (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/member.php?u=3487)

sounds perfectly fine! :roflblack:

3WD

[DannyS]

Hay I resemble that remark. Be nice or I'll sic Pippi on you and she'll lick you until you say uncle. :roflblack:

[rotorhead]

I'm a Buell rider and have 55,000 miles on mine. I'm drawn to the Spyder the same way I was drawn to Buell. Over the top engineering!!!! and company that stands behind what it sells. I do not own a Spyder and need some convincing. My wife the accountant also. Buell and BRP have alot in comon dealer network, service/parts support, "new" to the market, not everyone drives one(very appealing), truely dedicated owners. The current Buell situation cautions me to buy a BRP. I know BRP had bussiness/divison splits in it's past. Is the Spyder a design that will continue to grow?

Back to this thread, In the deal of Buell being discontinued HD had to pay Rotax for the remainder of the contract ($100M ball park). The 1125 was built/designed for production under the designs set forth from Buell not HD. So there could be a possability to use the engine once all the dust settles from the Buell shutdown. If anyone follows Eric Buell at all he will take his ideas and be building bikes by spring somewhere. Possibly back in his old barn he started from if he has to.

I've driven the Spyder a few times and enjoyed it. I was more impressed driving it in rain and cold for a 1/2 hour than dry conditions. Low end torque would sell me right now if it had some (and a hand brake). The 1125 engine is a low down torque monster. It's not a speed motor. Buell won it's Championship this year through the corners and corner exit (torque area). Think motor, not speed or the bike it is currently mounted in. The RT casssis would be perfect for this motor!!!! worth saying twice. The RT casssis would be perfect for this motor!!!! If traveling 2 up and a full trailer I see the need to get out of it's own way becoming a nessecity!

[chris56]

I'm a Buell rider and have 55,000 miles on mine. I'm drawn to the Spyder the same way I was drawn to Buell. Over the top engineering!!!! and company that stands behind what it sells. I do not own a Spyder and need some convincing. My wife the accountant also. Buell and BRP have alot in comon dealer network, service/parts support, "new" to the market, not everyone drives one(very appealing), truely dedicated owners. The current Buell situation cautions me to buy a BRP. I know BRP had bussiness/divison splits in it's past. Is the Spyder a design that will continue to grow?

Back to this thread, In the deal of Buell being discontinued HD had to pay Rotax for the remainder of the contract ($100M ball park). The 1125 was built/designed for production under the designs set forth from Buell not HD. So there could be a possability to use the engine once all the dust settles from the Buell shutdown. If anyone follows Eric Buell at all he will take his ideas and be building bikes by spring somewhere. Possibly back in his old barn he started from if he has to.

I've driven the Spyder a few times and enjoyed it. I was more impressed driving it in rain and cold for a 1/2 hour than dry conditions. Low end torque would sell me right now if it had some (and a hand brake). The 1125 engine is a low down torque monster. It's not a speed motor. Buell won it's Championship this year through the corners and corner exit (torque area). Think motor, not speed or the bike it is currently mounted in. The RT casssis would be perfect for this motor!!!! worth saying twice. The RT casssis would be perfect for this motor!!!! If traveling 2 up and a full trailer I see the need to get out of it's own way becoming a nessecity!

..on the other side - to use an ex-harley-engine - on a "new" spyder-model - could stop some discussion ..also here in the forum
chris (rotax forever)

[Director]

..on the other side - to use an ex-harley-engine - on a "new" spyder-model - could stop some discussion ..also here in the forum
chris (rotax forever)

But Chris, the 1125 engine he is talking about is a Rotax, not a Harley. :dontknow:

Bruce

[Questions]

But Chris, the 1125 engine he is talking about is a Rotax, not a Harley. :dontknow:

Bruce


While Buell is dead (RIP) the 1125 was developed by Rotax for Buell and Harley Davidson, and there is an exclusive agreement between the parties without regard to the death of Buell. That motor will not find its way into any other application unless it has Harley on the tank.
Not to mention it is NOT a torque monster, its has a GREAT!!! top end rush but would need a complete detune and recam to be driveable in an RT.

Mr. Dutchman.

[NancysToy]

While Buell is dead (RIP) the 1125 was developed by Rotax for Buell and Harley Davidson, and there is an exclusive agreement between the parties without regard to the death of Buell. That motor will not find its way into any other application unless it has Harley on the tank.
Not to mention it is NOT a torque monster, its has a GREAT!!! top end rsu but would need a complete detune and recam to be driveable in an RT.

Mr. Dutchman.
:agree:

[chris56]

But Chris, the 1125 engine he is talking about is a Rotax, not a Harley. :dontknow:

Bruce

hi bruce .. i know that ..if you look on there webside - they do in the moment only three 2-cylinder (and 2x1cylinder..) - the BMW-800 / the spyder and the 1125/ buell - which seems to be canceld now from HD..
http://www.rotax.com/en/Engine/2004/Motorcycle/Engine.Models.htm
my idea .. if all that just "lie about" - but don`t know what agreement they have done .. shure a lot of money was invested in that engine
chris

[JP58]

Acording to the engines you show. Does the 990 spyder have a 6 speed trans.

[BRPjunkie]

Acording to the engines you show. Does the 990 spyder have a 6 speed trans.


The 990 does have a six speed gearbox. In the Aprilla it is six forward speeds. In the Spyder, five are forward and one gets used for reverse.

[JP58]

Thanks. I was thought it was a 5 speed.

[mickc]

I test rode a pre introduction 95 Buell S2 when Eric himself was introducing the bike in the Holiday Inn in De Land Fl. The biike was about 15G's and it shook like crazy. I must have enjoyed that bike, cause in '97 I bought the same colored S2 that I demoed, used with 1200 miles and still have it to this day. Never to sell. Yes its a shaker and it only has 75 Hp, but what a great ride. Lots of parts available, simple to work on and a great looker. 5 years ago I had a violent accident while going to Alaska, and lost my left leg. The Buell now has a Velorex side car and cl9ose to 30,000 miles of troubl free ride. I certainly hope we have not see the last of ERIC BUELL. Mickc