Will the 1330 engine adjust based on gas octane changes?

[Fjrwillie]

Wondering if the 1330 engine adjusts based on the octane you use like cars do. Think car engines will retard or advance based on the Octane it senses. Something like that. I am not an expert on this, just what I have heard. I don't think motorcycles do in general. Could be wrong on this as well.

Willie

[ARtraveler]

I made the change to 87 octane over five years ago. I have noticed no difference in performance or mpg.

I live in AR where ethonal is part of the picture. Been using 87/10% since July of 2019.

I think the EFI system compensates for whatever octane you are using at the time and makes the engine run like it should. You should be ok to go with whatever grade you put in the tank.

Stay away from 15% ethanol. The manual says it will damage your Spyder.

[CloverHillCrawler]

I made the switch after Premium Prices went over $6.00/gal here in Md.

No Issues yet but I am looking for a station that has the no ethanol gas so as to minimize chances from ethanol damage.

[cravenfun]

In season I run E10 in my toys. When end of season comes around, I start running E0 to avoid issues. Sleds and the F3 will run on 87 just fine but my HD specs 91 minimum.
I can get 90 E0, HD has not complained yet so fall fill ups of E0 are my SOP. Cooler temps reduce octane sensitivity also. My small engines only get E0 as well as the boat.
NO E15 unless it means having to walk then only enough of that to get some E10 or E0

[JayBros]

The ECM does the thinking based on the octane one uses.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The ECM does the thinking based on the octane one uses.

:agree: ..... also have been using 87 w/ethyl since 09 ( and recommending it ).... IF - If there is a decrease in performance, I think it would need to be measured using a Dyno .... I have not noticed a difference ..... jmho .... Mike :thumbup:

[L8inLiferider]

Based from Can Am Brp website in owner zone they state https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/us/en/owner-zone/getting-started/vehicle-information/what-type-gas-3-wheel-motorcycle.html
Summary copied from link:
For Spyder models, your machine will perform to its highest potential and best performance on 91-octane fuel with no ethanol. That said, you will not damage anything if you use 87-octane fuel with no more than 10% ethanol, it just won’t perform top its full potential. Ryker models perform well on 87-octane fuels. Do NOT use E15 or any fuel with more that 10% ethanol in any recreational vehicle as this will damage the engine.

Using the E10 ethanol fuel isn’t all that bad, but letting it sit in the fuel tank and the fuel system can lead to long term problems. Typically, you do not want to leave ethanol fuel in your Can-Am Spyder or your Can-Am Ryker for more than 30 days. The reason for this is due to the water-absorbing nature of ethanol fuels and the corrosive nature of the ethanol. So, if you do choose to use fuel with ethanol, try to add a fuel stabilizer if you will be leaving the fuel in the vehicle for longer than 30 days. If the vehicle is going into storage for a longer period of time then it is pretty much mandatory to treat the fuel with the appropriate heavier dosage of stabilizer to prevent problems when you go to start and use the vehicle.

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Pretty timely question considering the price of gas. There is not an octane sensor per se, testing the gas you put in the tank, in order to adjust engine operation. Spyders and passenger vehicles have a knock sensor. So, if you’re running your engine hard, going for that peak performance, and you are using 87 octane gas, you could create the right conditions for detonation. The purpose in life of the knock sensor is to “listen” for this, tell the ECU what’s happening, and the ECU will make the timing adjustment - retard the timing - in order to eliminate the condition. That’s the point where you may not be getting your peak performance. Otherwise, there is no difference in engine operation and you don’t notice a thing. The energy content between 87 octane and higher octane fuel is the same. The knock sensor handles this at just the slightest hint of detonation, long before you would hear it.

And if you're lucky enough to live in NY, you can go to Stewart’s and get 91 octane, ethanol free gas. Wonder what the price of that is these days.

[FrogmanDave]

Yes. And any modern motorcycle (with fuel injection) does as well.

[GFrog]

AT 5:19 on this Smoaks video, you can hear a newer Spyder having some pre-detonation issues. However, the rest of the ride is good except for the warped rotor. ;)

https://youtu.be/hTCHQkHHuMc

I put 91 octane in my motorcycle. It's 6.9 cents per liter more than 87 and I usually put 20 liters per fill-up in my 25 liter tank. 20X6.9cents=1.38. If I 'm willing to fork-out $35K on a new toy, it's not a $1.38 more per fill-up that will break my bank account. But that's just me.

For reference: 1 US gallon = 3.79 liters

196907

[RazzleH]

Wondering if the 1330 engine adjusts based on the octane you use like cars do. Think car engines will retard or advance based on the Octane it senses. Something like that. I am not an expert on this, just what I have heard. I don't think motorcycles do in general. Could be wrong on this as well.

Willie

Yes! 24/7 at every stroke.

[linguine]

Howdy do, to all,

Here in Arizona, the best we can get is 91 octane, AFAIK.

So the questions:

1. Anyone ever run 87 octane? What do you notice?
2. Those who can't get 93 octane -- anyone ever use an octane booster?
3. Am I ok on a straight diet of 91 octane?

P.S. Prices in the greater Phoenix are ALWAYS spike in late March/Early April. We have no refineries here, and the Phoenix supply comes from California, where they do the maintenance changeover for the Summer mix. Awful.:banghead::banghead:

[Peter Aawen]

Howdy do, to all,

Here in Arizona, the best we can get is 91 octane, AFAIK.

So the questions:

1. Anyone ever run 87 octane? What do you notice?
2. Those who can't get 93 octane -- anyone ever use an octane booster?
3. Am I ok on a straight diet of 91 octane?

P.S. Prices in the greater Phoenix are ALWAYS spike in late March/Early April. We have no refineries here, and the Phoenix supply comes from California, where they do the maintenance changeover for the Summer mix. Awful.:banghead::banghead:

If you enter 'Octane' into the Search field up in the top right of the page; click the 'Search Titles Only' box in the drop down list; & submit the Search, you'll see there's already a whole heap of info on the Forum and IIRC, there's even answers to each of those questions you've asked. :thumbup:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

AT 5:19 on this Smoaks video, you can hear a newer Spyder having some pre-detonation issues. However, the rest of the ride is good except for the warped rotor. ;)

https://youtu.be/hTCHQkHHuMc

I put 91 octane in my motorcycle. It's 6.9 cents per liter more than 87 and I usually put 20 liters per fill-up in my 25 liter tank. 20X6.9cents=1.38. If I 'm willing to fork-out $35K on a new toy, it's not a $1.38 more per fill-up that will break my bank account. But that's just me.

For reference: 1 US gallon = 3.79 liters

196907

That's great for you .... currently in Vermont the difference is .55 cents, not so great for me :roflblack:.....Mike :thumbup:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Howdy do, to all,

Here in Arizona, the best we can get is 91 octane, AFAIK.

So the questions:

1. Anyone ever run 87 octane? What do you notice?
2. Those who can't get 93 octane -- anyone ever use an octane booster?
3. Am I ok on a straight diet of 91 octane?

P.S. Prices in the greater Phoenix are ALWAYS spike in late March/Early April. We have no refineries here, and the Phoenix supply comes from California, where they do the maintenance changeover for the Summer mix. Awful.:banghead::banghead:

I've used 87 oct. ( w/ethyl ) in my three Spyders all the time ( except for testing or drag racing ). I have not noticed any loss in power ( although there is going to be ). I also know how to downshift and do so as needed, my 1330 engine gives me 38 mpg's consistently, unless I'm really pushing it ..... Never had any engine issues ..... Mike :thumbup:

[linguine]

Thx. Quite useful.

Since this bike has a Stage 2 ECU tune by WickIt [by original owner], it should then just adjust fine, I think.

[SLICE]

I'm so tempted to fill up with the 110 octane offered at the gas station a mile from the drag strip, but at $9.52 a gallon :yikes: .

So until I find $70- dollars laying in the street I'll pass, but still tempted

[2dogs]

Thx. Quite useful.

Since this bike has a Stage 2 ECU tune by WickIt [by original owner], it should then just adjust fine, I think.

I run stage 2 also. WickIt recommends 91. Check it out. You can't always hear it pinging, but it's your choice. I carry BOOSTane in case I'm out in the middle of nowhere and can't find 91. I consider it cheap insurance.
As BK refers to, DON"T lug stage 2.

[bigbadbrucie]

I went a few tankfuls with 87 octane and did not notice any difference. Then my reasoning kicked in as I’m getting older.... I’ll be 80 in 2 weeks, my eyesight is getting worse, as is my hearing as well as my general health. It started thinking am I missing something? For the original price we pay for the privilege of riding these things, am I going to start two bit-ing for the few extra bucks for the recommended fuel? Right now it’s costing me 12 cents to 13 cents per km for this pleasurable experience. I can afford a few dollars extra for the fuel, but I can’t afford the few thousand $ for an engine replacement, can you? just my own reasoning, take it or ignore it.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm so tempted to fill up with the 110 octane offered at the gas station a mile from the drag strip, but at $9.52 a gallon :yikes: .

So until I find $70- dollars laying in the street I'll pass, but still tempted

110 or 1010 oct .... it's your money ..... neither one will give you any more Power ..... JMHO ..... Mike :thumbup:

[SLICE]

110 or 1010 oct .... it's your money ..... neither one will give you any more Power ..... JMHO ..... Mike :thumbup:

But it will clean out the carbon,,, if there is any.

[linguine]

I run stage 2 also. WickIt recommends 91. Check it out. You can't always hear it pinging, but it's your choice. I carry BOOSTane in case I'm out in the middle of nowhere and can't find 91. I consider it cheap insurance.
As BK refers to, DON"T lug stage 2.

Hmmm....
Thx

[troop]

Thx. Quite useful.

Since this bike has a Stage 2 ECU tune by WickIt [by original owner], it should then just adjust fine, I think.

Wick-It states 91 octane
1330cc Flash

Ultra smooth throttle transitions
+15% torque increase, up to +20% horsepower
Roll-on power is improved 1000-5000 rpm.
New Ultra wide power band gives vast power gains 5000 rpm to redline
91 Octane Tune (can use 93 to promote best power output)
Works with every combination of stock exhaust, cat delete or free flow muffler
Retains factory mapping, feedback systems and fuel mileage under half throttle
Stock 8100 or 8600 rpm limiter choice (or anywhere 8800-9200 at user’s discretion)

[USAF]

110 or 1010 oct .... it's your money ..... neither one will give you any more Power ..... JMHO ..... Mike :thumbup:

Its not about power, but more about engine damage with lower octane fuel. Too much octane can actually make an engine lose power and burn too cool.

[SLICE]

Its not about power, but more about engine damage with lower octane fuel. Too much octane can actually make an engine lose power and burn too cool.

Far better than a lean condition and running HOT.

Heat kills.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Its not about power, but more about engine damage with lower octane fuel. Too much octane can actually make an engine lose power and burn too cool.

The point of my comment was ...... a few folks here suggested that using Extremely high octane fuel should be waaaaaaaaaaaay better for the Spyder.... I think that is ridicules :roflblack::roflblack: ...JMHO.. Mike :thumbup:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Thx. Quite useful.

Since this bike has a Stage 2 ECU tune by WickIt [by original owner], it should then just adjust fine, I think.

Because of the ECU tune I recommend their advice on what Fuel you should use ..... Mike :thumbup:

[FrogmanDave]

Because of the ECU tune I recommend their advice on what Fuel you should use ..... Mike :thumbup:

So the logical question would be, if an ECU tuner recommends a fuel and you endorse it, why then would you not endorse a fuel recommended by a BRP engineer?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

So the logical question would be, if an ECU tuner recommends a fuel and you endorse it, why then would you not endorse a fuel recommended by a BRP engineer?

The OEM ECU tune, milder, softer, not as aggressive ( take your pick ). The Monster & Jase tune's are NOT mild, soft, Non-aggressive. With their Tune a higher octane gas is needed.... if 87 octane was PROHIBITED by BRP, I wouldn't be using it. But that's not the case ---- is it. ..... JMHO ....Mike :thumbup:..... no further response from you, on this is necessary

[Mikey]

:popcorn:

[CloverHillCrawler]

:bbq:

[FrogmanDave]

The OEM ECU tune, milder, softer, not as aggressive ( take your pick ). The Monster & Jase tune's are NOT mild, soft, Non-aggressive. With their Tune a higher octane gas is needed.... if 87 octane was PROHIBITED by BRP, I wouldn't be using it. But that's not the case ---- is it. ..... JMHO ....Mike :thumbup:..... no further response from you, on this is necessary

Well I guess I am happy you think you can tell me when I can respond and when I can't. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

It is ok for someone to have a different opinion than you do. And I wasn't even offering an opinion. I was simply asking you about yours.

I wasn't being negative at all. I was simply asking for clarification. BRP DOES recommend 91 octane fuel. That is not in question whatsoever. This from pg. 54 of my owners manual.

[Woodaddict]

recommended but NOT required.............haven't you seen these similar posts before?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Well I guess I am happy you think you can tell me when I can respond and when I can't. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

It is ok for someone to have a different opinion than you do. And I wasn't even offering an opinion. I was simply asking you about yours.

I wasn't being negative at all. I was simply asking for clarification. BRP DOES recommend 91 octane fuel. That is not in question whatsoever. This from pg. 54 of my owners manual.

Your sentences #1 - I didn't tell you when you could or couldn't respond . #2 - I have always welcomed differing opinions, I have a lot of them myself :roflblack: . #3 - " I wasn't being negative at all " ....... I never said you were ..................JMHO ..... Mike :thumbup:

[linguine]

:popcorn:

[TerryTheSpyderRyder]

What Type of Fuel?

Can the F3-S run regular fuel (87 octane) without problems? With today's gas prices, I'm trying to save a few cents! :yes:

[BCNewell]

87 is what I run 90% of the time in my Daytona. 5,300+ miles in 16 months with no problems.

[EdMat]

:popcorn:

[troop]

Nothing has changed.
1.) Minimum 87 octane required ( no 15% ethanol gas)
2.) 91 octane recommended

[vito1943]

Around where I live I am not aware of anywhere that I can buy ethanol-free gas. I have used 91 octane exclusively since I bought my RT two years ago, but after reading this thread I might try to fill up next time with 87 octane, which is about $1 a gallon cheaper than the 91 or 93 octane. My bigger challenge is finding specific gas pumps that allow me to slowly fill the tank so that I can at least come close to actually filling it. Many pumps seem to be either on or off with no way to regulate flow, shutting off the pump when I know that there is at least 1 to 1.5 gallons short of totally full.

I didn't buy my Spyder to save money on gas, but I guess if 87 works essentially as well as 91, it seems foolish to keep spending the extra dollars on the 91.

[newdave]

Around where I live I am not aware of anywhere that I can buy ethanol-free gas. I have used 91 octane exclusively since I bought my RT two years ago, but after reading this thread I might try to fill up next time with 87 octane, which is about $1 a gallon cheaper than the 91 or 93 octane. My bigger challenge is finding specific gas pumps that allow me to slowly fill the tank so that I can at least come close to actually filling it. Many pumps seem to be either on or off with no way to regulate flow, shutting off the pump when I know that there is at least 1 to 1.5 gallons short of totally full.

I didn't buy my Spyder to save money on gas, but I guess if 87 works essentially as well as 91, it seems foolish to keep spending the extra dollars on the 91.

Agreed. If it'll run fine on 87 E10, running higher octane is money down the drain. I've got other things to spend my money on, like farkles.

I've been using nothing but premium in mine for a year. I reckon it cost me $252 extra to do so.

[Dasmoetorhead]

I'm using 90 octane 100% gas (ethanol free), and it works fine, even in hot wx. 92 octane premium w/ethanol is also available. I've used both, and cant tell the difference. I usually always go with what the manufacturer suggests, I don't try to out smart the engineers that design the machine, but I think the 90 octane is ok.

[bigbadbrucie]

Around where I live I am not aware of anywhere that I can buy ethanol-free gas. I have used 91 octane exclusively since I bought my RT two years ago, but after reading this thread I might try to fill up next time with 87 octane, which is about $1 a gallon cheaper than the 91 or 93 octane. My bigger challenge is finding specific gas pumps that allow me to slowly fill the tank so that I can at least come close to actually filling it. Many pumps seem to be either on or off with no way to regulate flow, shutting off the pump when I know that there is at least 1 to 1.5 gallons short of totally full.

I didn't buy my Spyder to save money on gas, but I guess if 87 works essentially as well as 91, it seems foolish to keep spending the extra dollars on the 91.

I agree.......up to a point. BRP did not use these engines to make more money for the gas companies, nor did they recommend 91 octane for the gas companies. Yes, your Spyder seems to run just fine on 87 octane, BUT the recommended octane is 91, so I’m back to using that, but if it is not available at fill up time I’ll use lower. The recommended octane recommendation comes from someone a lot smarter than me, and it was not just a number randomly chosen. A lot of the members on this site will disagree, but that is just their own thinking....are they as smart as the engineers that recommended 91 octane in the first place? And one last thing.....I’m not a wealthy man. I live on a fixed government pension and used my savings to purchase my USED unit for relaxation purposes.

[ARtraveler]

It is sometimes funny to go back and re-read these threads.

Rule #1....Most of us are older geezers. We have our minds made up. Don't need no steenkeen manuals or advice. Do our best to try to convert everyone on the site to our opinions. No reason to get mad at others. IT IS THE WAY IT IS.

I am on the wrong side with my 87 octane and 10% ethanol. Over a hundred thousand miles on the Spyders since 2014 when I made the change over from premium. Still haven't blown up an engine or had ANY major damage. Right BlueKnight? :yes: I listened to BK and it seems to be working for the both of us. We MUST be right. :roflblack:

[Knizar]

We hear ya Bruce, "BUT", Those same engineers are constantly pushing the use of the Kenda (out of round wheel barrow tires) which are a POS! I've got 28K on the diluted 87 octane on my ride and will continue using it until it dies.

Sometimes even the smartest people make a mistake. :thumbup: Bill

[BajaRon]

It is sometimes funny to go back and re-read these threads.

Rule #1....Most of us are older geezers. We have our minds made up. Don't need no steenkeen manuals or advice. Do our best to try to convert everyone on the site to our opinions. No reason to get mad at others. IT IS THE WAY IT IS.

I am on the wrong side with my 87 octane and 10% ethanol. Over a hundred thousand miles on the Spyders since 2014 when I made the change over from premium. Still haven't blown up an engine or had ANY major damage. Right BlueKnight? :yes: I listened to BK and it seems to be working for the both of us. We MUST be right. :roflblack:

You make some very accurate assessments here.

You're not on the wrong side of anything with your 87 octane and ethanol mix. The ECU is designed to compensate for virtually any clean, uncontaminated fuel you are likely to run into. Though it can't compensate for the potential downsides of ethanol.

If not blowing up your engine, or suffering any major damage are your essential parameters. Then there is no question that you're all good. I would add, the same principal applies to which oil you use.

However, the fact remains that having your ECU compensate does have other, less noticable consequences. It is also true that there are several factors which determine how much of a difference fuel octane and mix will make. So, results are not linear.

Still, whether or not a person perceives them, 'Compensation' always has consequences. I think this is what promoters of Premium, straight gasoline are attempting to convey. It's not about being right or wrong. It's about knowing how the machine functions and the facts surrounding your options.

Is premium fuel Required? No. I don't know if I've ever seen anyone try to make this point.

Is premium fuel ideal? The Rotax engineers that made the motor, along with the stated compression ratio, would seem to make a strong case.

No one should feel put-upon regarding the fuel they choose. Nor should anyone attempt to make someone feel bad about their selection. It's your ride. Do it the way you want and be happy!

[ARtraveler]

You make some very accurate assessments here.

You're not on the wrong side of anything with your 87 octane and ethanol mix. The ECU is designed to compensate for virtually any clean, uncontaminated fuel you are likely to run into. Though it can't compensate for the potential downsides of ethanol.

If not blowing up your engine, or suffering any major damage are your essential parameters. Then there is no question that you're all good. I would add, the same principal applies to which oil you use.

However, the fact remains that having your ECU compensate does have other, less noticable consequences. It is also true that there are several factors which determine how much of a difference fuel octane and mix will make. So, results are not liner.

Still, whether or not a person perceives them, 'Compensation' always has consequences. I think this is what promoters of Premium, straight gasoline are attempting to convey. It's not about being right or wrong. It's about knowing how the machine functions and the facts surrounding your options.

Is premium fuel Required? No. I don't know if I've ever seen anyone try to make this point.

Is premium fuel ideal? The Rotax engineers that made the motor, along with the stated compression ratio, would seem to make a strong case.

No one should feel put-upon regarding the fuel they choose. Nor should anyone attempt to make someone feel bad about their selection. It's your ride. Do it the way you want and be happy!

Thank you for the comments. You also make good points. Us geezers should stick together. :bowdown:

[BajaRon]

Thank you for the comments. You also make good points. Us geezers should stick together. :bowdown:

You Got That Right! You'll never hear me say otherwise! You have to be a geezer to understand a geezer! I used to think they were crazy! Now I am one! It's called 'Life'!

[old Timer]

My '20 F3 L has about 22,000 miles, runs perfectly and has ALWAYS used regular grade.


https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ghHxLSQ/0/X2/i-ghHxLSQ-X2.jpg

[GFrog]

I used to think they were crazy! Now I am one! It's called 'Life'!

It's weird to be the same age as old people. ;)

[Mikey]

It's weird to be the same age as old people. ;)

Your Avitar sez it all, it's the music!!!:cheers:

[Dasmoetorhead]

It's weird to be the same age as old people. ;)

That's the best one liner I've heard in quite some time

:cheers:

[Big F]

I agree on the 87 octane. I'm on my 5th Spyder (all RTs) and have tried using 91 octane vs 87 octane on each model and found there is absolutely no difference in performance or MPG! we recently had another successful Spyderfever rally and several attendees were hell bent on finding a 91 octane station?? I shared with them my results and they just shrugged me off. so be it.
BIG F

[bigbadbrucie]

Hmmmm..... Oil threads..... Octane threads...... The two sides will NEVER agree. Crazy thing is, both sides are pretty well correct.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I agree on the 87 octane. I'm on my 5th Spyder (all RTs) and have tried using 91 octane vs 87 octane on each model and found there is absolutely no difference in performance or MPG! we recently had another successful Spyderfever rally and several attendees were hell bent on finding a 91 octane station?? I shared with them my results and they just shrugged me off. so be it.
BIG F

I'm a staunch advocate for 87 oct. ..... however I dis-agree about your view on " performance ", it is a very slight de-crease from 91 oct. to 87 oct. ..... but it would take a DYNO to show it .... On MPG's there is no way to measure it ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup: