New rider, confession and question

[dmiles]

Was out riding yesterday, and I was on what I would call a twisty for the first time. I took a curve around 35-40mph, which was the posted speed limit.

I have to admit, the "sensitivity" (for lack of a better word) kind of shocked me. I had gone that speed before, but only on a straightaway. I of course slowed down, and I will not drive the speed limit on roads like that until I get some more experience, but the tendency to overcompensate just a bit, and the problems that could cause are pretty scary at this point.

I do plan on taking the BRP course, but it will be a few weeks before I can get in one. Any feedback from those who have taken the course would be much appreciated. Looking for honest feedback on the course, if you feel it didn't help much, please say so. It will not keep me from taking it. I also plan on taking the motorcycle safety course offered by the DMV, but mostly because it's another route to get my official license, (driving on a permit now) and I see more benefit potential there than just having someone assess my performance one time.

Aside from the obvious "slow down you moron, until you get more experience", (that's what I said to myself) do sway bars and upgraded shocks help with this situation? If not, what does? Looking for any and all advise, and I'd like to benefit from the vast experience here.

I just got this 2017 RTL, and the guy drove it from west Texas to central Georgia, so it's hard to believe that there could be an issue with the steering, but I'm new, so not in a position to rule anything out.

[BajaRon]

In stock configuration, the front end alignment changes as the Spyder leans. When you first go into a turn you will get oversteer (probably the 'Overcompensation' or 'Sensitivity' that you describe.) When you adjust the steering angle to compensate for the oversteer, it unloads the suspension (you straighten up more) and this again changes the front end alignment creating an 'Understeer' situation. Which you then must compensate for with another steering angle adjustment to the handlebars.

Depending on the speed, angle of turn and crown of the road, a typical curve will create a diminishing oscillation between oversteer and understeer. It is not unusual to make 3 or 4 adjustments before the Spyder settles into a stable steering situation. This is why your upper body can get tired on a curvy roadway.

If you pay attention in the twisties and you find that you are having to make the adjustments as described above. It is more the machine design than inexperience on your part.

[pegasus1300]

There is not a defect in your steering. There is a learning curve on steering a Spyder. Some go thru it very quickly and adjust just fine, others take more time and practice. I found in the Spyder owner's manual a practice course description you can set up in a large parking lt. I got got some large red cups from walmart and set up a course in a large church parking lot (they are usually empty during the week). After riding it several times I could handle my Spyder much better. I came to the Spyder from 50+ years on 2 wheels so I had a few muscle memories to unlearn. See if your manual has such a course in the back and try this while waiting for your official courses to begin. It may help you get more out of your courses. Good luck and welcome to the forum and the world of Spyders.

[RICZ]

The key to steering a Spyder is, LOOSE HANDS, LOOSE ARMS. Try keeping your fingers open, rather than wrapped around the grips. The power assist is proportional - it fades as speed increases.
I think you are trying too hard. There is a learning curve, so give yourself time. Baby steps.

[Wmoater]

After racing snowmobiles for a long time in very tight turns with others around it is very easy to explain but it takes a while to learn. The spyder is no different. First you should NEVER need to hit the brake while “in” the turn. You hit brakes before turn accelerate out. I want you to use your head as a guide. When downhill skiing, you body/inside knee should be parallel to the ground not the turn. The same goes for the spyder. Rock your head into the curve look at the farthest point of arch as if you want to keep it parallel to the curve. This will allow your shoulders to follow and dip and develop a lean. Squeeze your inside knees into the the side the side panels and then dance or sway with your arms like your in Lala land as you come out. (On the bars of course) It should be smooth like your waltzing in a dance. Jacked or delayed movements create your body to experience the g factor and you feel out of control. Sway and dance and keep a loose grip. Breath long into the curse (inhale) and ( exhale) long coming out which will keep you relaxed. I raced for years and still on the first ride each year its like retraining time. It’s something that comes in time. As a side note, don’t worry about how fast you’re taking the “twisties.” Enjoy the ride and go at “your” speed not what “you think” others would expect. Its your ride, no one will ever say a word about going to slow and if they do, they’ll just pass you when they feel they need to. Enjoy the ride and gain the experience as you go. You’re thinking to much.

[dmiles]

In stock configuration, the front end alignment changes as the Spyder leans. When you first go into a turn you will get oversteer (probably the 'Overcompensation' or 'Sensitivity' that you describe.) When you adjust the steering angle to compensate for the oversteer, it unloads the suspension (you straighten up more) and this again changes the front end alignment creating an 'Understeer' situation. Which you then must compensate for with another steering angle adjustment to the handlebars.

Depending on the speed, angle of turn and crown of the road, a typical curve will create a diminishing oscillation between oversteer and understeer. It is not unusual to make 3 or 4 adjustments before the Spyder settles into a stable steering situation. This is why your upper body can get tired on a curvy roadway.

If you pay attention in the twisties and you find that you are having to make the adjustments as described above. It is more the machine design than inexperience on your part.

"Diminishing oscillation" is a perfect way to describe it. Diminishing is good, but I think anyone can see how disturbing this is to new riders.

I went through your entire thread explaining what a sway bar is and what it does, but it was years old, so wasn't sure if it still applied to newer models. Anyway, I have one of your sway bars on order from Lamonster. Looks like it's well worth the investment, and I will enjoy getting to know the Spyder better as I install it.

Thanks!

[Quickdraw]

How I go through bends is I've learned not only my own limitations, but the limitations of the spyder. Having said that, I approach a bend like a racecar driver approaches a turn on an oval track. On left bends, I take the inside track and gradually end up in the middle or just on the left of the road when I straighten out. On right bends, it's just the opposite. I start on the outside and end up towards the middle. This allows for the least amount of turn on the handlebars. It also allows you to go faster around the bends once you get used to it.

As others have said though, it also takes some time getting used to the bike. You can definitely feel the centrifugal force; unlike when you lean on a 2 wheel bike, and it's not easily correctable if you start losing it without hitting the brake.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

You didn't say how many miles you have as a driver on your Spyder ...... Spyders have unique handling .... I GUIDE my RT, with minimal input .... I LOVE the " twistie's " and can usually exceed the Yellow ( suggested limit ) signs by 10 to 20 mph and still feel Safe doing it .... I have well over 100,000 driving miles on various Spyders, and wouldn't re-turn to TWO wheels. The learning curve for driving at the LIMIT of what a Spyder can achieve will take 3,000 to 6,000 miles ( everyone is different ) be Patient and just practice, practice , practice .... it will happen ..... Mike :thumbup:

[K80Shooter]

dmiles, have you checked into the BRP course? https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/us/en/learn-to-ride/registration.html They do it in Byron, Perry and Milledgeville (+ other cities) if either of those are convenient to you.

For only $99.00 I think it's money well spent for what you get. Once you complete the course you'll get a certificate that allows you to get your "class m" (motorcycle) license, all you do is present it at the dmv, pay the fee and get your new license.

The course is informative and I thought it was fun also.

[spyderdave]

Take the BRP course; if it's the same as the one my wife took, it will help you understand how the Spyder works and under extreme conditions. She had to make panic stops, fast lane changes and deal with obstacles in the road. It boosted her confidence enough to take the DOT test and get her license. There is no down side to it.

And don't feel bad about having to "take a step back" and approach driving this thing more slowly; I had to. I tried to over control or muscle it through corners, leaning like I was on 2 wheels at first; wrong! You will gain confidence with experience, start slowly, and so what if the guy behind you has to break speed around the corner; it's better than losing control.

[ARtraveler]

All my usual advice has been posted above. The most important to me is don't enter a turn to fast. If you have to hit the brakes to slow down for the turn, you are going to fast to begin it. You should be able to accelerate a bit during the turn.

[dmiles]

dmiles, have you checked into the BRP course? https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/us/en/learn-to-ride/registration.html They do it in Byron, Perry and Milledgeville (+ other cities) if either of those are convenient to you.

For only $99.00 I think it's money well spent for what you get. Once you complete the course you'll get a certificate that allows you to get your "class m" (motorcycle) license, all you do is present it at the dmv, pay the fee and get your new license.

The course is informative and I thought it was fun also.

OK so I will e taking the course for sure, even though they raised the price to $199 in Georgia. Byron is the closest to me, but they have shut down giving the course because they are expanding, and they have massive new construction going on. Perry would be the next closest, but they only have one class scheduled, and it is towards the end of July. They have on sooner in Conyers, but it it is on a Thursday and Friday, so I will need to see about getting those days off from work so I can attend that one.

I appreciate all the replies, it's a ton of great information, and very encouraging.

[canamjhb]

A couple of things that helped me adjust my Spyder riding experience..... Lead with your nose. Physically point your nose into and through the corners. Have the inside knee firmly pressed against the bike and press down very firmly with the outside foot. Lean into the curve (pointing with your nose) and pull on the inside handlebar. Try not to push too much on the outside handlebar. Let your inside hand do MOST of the steering. There is a learning curve and with some practice it will suddenly become magic. Good luck..... Jim

[Lew L]

A couple of things that helped me adjust my Spyder riding experience..... Lead with your nose. Physically point your nose into and through the corners. Have the inside knee firmly pressed against the bike and press down very firmly with the outside foot. Lean into the curve (pointing with your nose) and pull on the inside handlebar. Try not to push too much on the outside handlebar. Let your inside hand do MOST of the steering. There is a learning curve and with some practice it will suddenly become magic. Good luck..... Jim





+1....

[Pirate]

I found that the issue with corners was a combo of things. One, I had to lean not the bike. Two, raising my tire pressure from the factory of 15 to 19 or 20 (fronts) helped immensely with the squirrely feeling, and three/four, swaybar and links and a laser alignment definitely made a huge change. I find I have to lean less now.

[Bartender]

Pull with the inside hand or push with the outside hand seem to be a matter of choice or at least it is with me. Perhaps because I came from 50 years on two wheels. In any case, pull with the inside hand just doesn't work for me and I push with the outside hand and seem to have much more comfortable control. I agree with all the other comments above, however but would add that if your really carving the corners, in addition to hugging the tank with the inside knee and pushing with the outside leg you can add some weight shift to the inside by moving your rear end and I find that helps also. I really think all your accomplishing is placing your body so it is inside the centrifugal force of the corner is pushing your body onto the bike rather than feeling like it is going to throw you off the bike. Just my 2 cents worth.

[dmiles]

Much better today. Someone stated that I didn't say how long I had been riding a Spyder, well my ride home from where I met up with the guy I bought it from this past Saturday was my first time ever. I'm sure a lot of it will come with time and practice. When I first started driving a car, it was back when they lowered the speed limit on the interstate to 55 because of the OPEC oil crisis. Yes, I am that old. I remember saying that I was glad they did, because I could never imagine going 70. Well that changed pretty quickly.

I put a lot of the advise here to work, realized I was way overthinking it, and loosened the death grip on the handles. Got my first wave from a 2 wheeler as well. Good day.

[Navydad]

There are things that make the Spyder corner better. GOOD tires, better shocks, and sway bar all contribute to handling. However, the best thing you can do is practice. It took me about a thousand miles of riding before I started feeling comfortable and THEN I started thinking about upgrades. Same thing goes for seats, windshields, handlebars, etc. Give it a bit of time before emptying your wallet.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Much better today. Someone stated that I didn't say how long I had been riding a Spyder, well my ride home from where I met up with the guy I bought it from this past Saturday was my first time ever. I'm sure a lot of it will come with time and practice. When I first started driving a car, it was back when they lowered the speed limit on the interstate to 55 because of the OPEC oil crisis. Yes, I am that old. I remember saying that I was glad they did, because I could never imagine going 70. Well that changed pretty quickly.

I put a lot of the advise here to work, realized I was way overthinking it, and loosened the death grip on the handles. Got my first wave from a 2 wheeler as well. Good day.

Thanks , and I'm the guy who asked about the miles ...... :agree: Don't over think this .... You received a lot of good advice in the past 16 posts, but trying to remember everything and still stay in your lane while driving isn't going to help you .... Try to only think about ! or 2 specific things, to focus on for a ride. ... the more you ride the greater your muscle memory will become.... On any given ride I do ALL the things that have been mentioned above, but I honestly don't think about most of them .... I can now ride just from muscle memory .... It will happen .....good luck ... Mike :thumbup:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

One thing to put high on your priority list is a laser alignment of the front wheels. By any chance did the PO have that done? If not, then you do it. A slight misalignment, even within factory specs, can contribute to twitchy steering. Look here, http://spydercomfort.com/, to find a laser alignment shop you can go to. Click on the menu item on the right side of the page.

[crtsteve55]

I road about 2-300 miles before getting my endorsement. Had some uneasy turns until easing up on the grips and shifting on the seat as well as a lean with turns. The two day WA state endorsement class was money well spent. It was through a Harley Davidson dealership here in Spokane. We covered emergent scenarios, safe turning, situational awareness, and many other topics. I personally recommend a formal class with your Spyder.

[PistonBlown]

If it makes you feel any better.

I've ridden motorbikes since I was 16, in fact I didn't get a car license until I was in my late 20's. I've also ridden ski-doo's, quads and even jet-skis.

But I really really struggled with working out cornering on a Spyder. It took me a good 500kms until I began to feel comfortable with it and understand all the nuances and a lot longer until it was completely natural.

I'd say cornering well on a Spyder is harder than a motorbike, but because of that is feels more rewarding when you do crack it.

As others has suggested the setup of the frontend on the Spyder has more impact on the way it rides than a bike. But I'd also say don't touch anything until you've got at least 2000km's under your belt as you need to be able to feel if the changes your making are right for you. The only thing worth checking before then is that the front tires are the same pressure.

[Piratezz]

All the given advice above is good, but REMEMBER, get comfortable on your spyder, THEN do the upgrades, They all make a difference, Spyder is good outta the box, but can be much better after upgrading SWAYBAR, TIRES, Shocks, in that order..
That worked for me, my F3 runs like a dream now, even two-wheelers have a hard time keeping up in the twisties... (I had quite a few giggles, when they ate my dust... :)) )
Drive it, learn the quirks of driving a spyder, and you will get the hang of it, it's a rewarding machine to drive, once you get it right

[FrogmanDave]

dmiles, have you checked into the BRP course? https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/us/en/learn-to-ride/registration.html They do it in Byron, Perry and Milledgeville (+ other cities) if either of those are convenient to you.

For only $99.00 I think it's money well spent for what you get. Once you complete the course you'll get a certificate that allows you to get your "class m" (motorcycle) license, all you do is present it at the dmv, pay the fee and get your new license.

The course is informative and I thought it was fun also.

An FYI to others in other states. Here is Kansas completing the 'BRP 3 wheel training course' does NOT get you a motorcycle license. Just a 3 wheel endorsement. I have had my 'M' license for many, many years and am legal to operate my Spyder but by obtaining the '3 wheel endorsement' does not work the other way around (as far as operating a 2 wheeler).

[K80Shooter]

An FYI to others in other states. Here is Kansas completing the 'BRP 3 wheel training course' does NOT get you a motorcycle license. Just a 3 wheel endorsement. I have had my 'M' license for many, many years and am legal to operate my Spyder but by obtaining the '3 wheel endorsement' does not work the other way around (as far as operating a 2 wheeler).

Yes I should have stated that I was speaking of Ga but the op is from Ga and that's who I was speaking to. Sorry for any confusion.
Also in Ga there is no 3 wheel endorsement only the class M