Experienced the Death wobble!!

[907Guy]

Experienced the death wobble yesterday on a left hand turn probably doing 70. Pushing it into a left-hand turn, there was a really rough uneven spot in the road.
Seems like it lasted a long time but in reality probably more like eight seconds or so.
Thought I was done for. it started and grow in intensity, I was all over the road, finally subsided and yeah it was scare.
Pressures in my front tires were even at 18 PSI.
May have been pushing it a little bit hard, had no idea this bike would do that.
My perspective has definitely changed on how much I can push the spyder.
Maybe an anti-sway bar would help a bit, but for me it's backer down and take it a little bit easier for sure.
Has anyone else experienced this?

[Lew L]

.

I got a little shaker a few weeks ago. Going far too fast and got a bit " light " over a rise and slight curve in the road surface. Shook when landing. Didn't last along at all. Nothing like the high speed " death wobble" on my poor, old, slow V-Max when I first got it. Fixed is quickly with the help of a V-Max forum. Steering head adjustment problem.

Lew L

[Eckhard]

Pressures in my front tires were even at 18 PSI.


What brand of tires?

[spyderdave]

Scary stuff!!! I had that happen decades ago w/ an old Honda 350; wound up launching myself off the back and watching the bike tumble down the street. It took awhile for the asphalt rash to go away; even longer for the memory of it.

My opinion is to get yours to the dealership asap and explain what happened. Ask them to check tie rod ends, the dynamic power steering unit and ask for an alignment; I would think it should all be covered under your warranty. To me, an incident this radical is indicative of something more than tire pressure, balancing loose lug nuts, or sway bar. And if my understanding on the DPS is correct, it should help dampen movement at that speed, not magnify it.

Hope this helps.

[RayBJ]

I had that happen on my '20 RT last spring in West Virginia. The RT is laser-aligned, has a BajaRon sway bar, Elka stage 2 shocks and Q5 tires. Was going very fast (70+) on a un-divided 4-lane highway in a left sweeper and hit a rough spot. The RT went into what I'd call a tank-slapper type wobble. It lasted for about 100 yards and pushed me over the center line into the on-coming lanes before I settled it down. Luckily, there was no traffic coming towards me or I'd have been history. Hasn't happened since and my riding style hasn't changed. I wrote it off as 's**t happens.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Experienced the death wobble yesterday on a left hand turn probably doing 70. Pushing it into a left-hand turn, there was a really rough uneven spot in the road.
Seems like it lasted a long time but in reality probably more like eight seconds or so.
Thought I was done for. it started and grow in intensity, I was all over the road, finally subsided and yeah it was scare.
Pressures in my front tires were even at 18 PSI.
May have been pushing it a little bit hard, had no idea this bike would do that.
My perspective has definitely changed on how much I can push the spyder.
Maybe an anti-sway bar would help a bit, but for me it's backer down and take it a little bit easier for sure.
Has anyone else experienced this?

This sounds Bizarre to me ( 3 spyders 100,000 + miles ) and have NEVER experienced anything even close to this. .... Decades ago I had a G.W. and experienced this .... but it was caused by a FLAT tire on the rear :gaah: .... you are a Newbie here and I think this may be factor in what you experienced..... Lots of possibilities come to mind, however they are all PARTS failure re-lated .... Which would not SELF Repair itself..... 8 seconds is a hugh amount of time, so road surface condition isn't likely either. I doubt the Dealer is going to find anything .... UNLESS they hook it up to BUDS and see what was recorded .... If they say BUDS doesn't tell them anything, that's BS, anything that occurs to your Spyder is recorded in the Computer system - FOREVER ..... A long time ago, I had issues with the Paddle shifter on my RSS, and three trips to the Dealer and couldn't identify or even find the glitch :yikes: .... At Spyderfest 14 a BRP Tech examined my problem, He found it .... ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND 247 more recorded incidents that were filed in the COMPUTER .... I then had the Dealer - TECH who couldn't find it contact the BRP Tech who did ..... My Paddle shifter was then re-placed under warranty ..... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

[RayBJ]

"This sounds Bizarre to me"

May be bizarre but I have 4 guys that saw what happened that can testify to the event. All machines have limits and I found one.

[907Guy]

What brand of tires?


Stock, only 4200 miles on bike

[bigbadbrucie]

Interesting thread....don’t see ANY reference to weather conditions (I hope that I didn’t miss them). I had the same thing happen to me on a trip 4 years ago. In my case, it was EASY to figure out what happened....my RTS started to hydroplane. In my case it was raining. Was the highway/road surface in your case wet? The rough road surface made MY tires lose traction and opened the door for hydroplaning. just another thought to ponder.

[Tonylmiller]

What was the speed limit where you were doing 70 mph?

[907Guy]

Truth be told, both tires were at 15psi cold this morning, at sea level because that's were I am. Two days ago when I checked them cold at 5500 ft they were 18psi. So maybe low pressure had something to do with what I experienced.

[907Guy]

What was the speed limit where you were doing 70 mph?

55, But not really sure I was doing 70 because I don't really look down at the sponometer when I'm in the curves and in the zone.
Pay more attention to the road, revs and gears.
Yeah I admit I was driving a little sporty!

[907Guy]

Interesting thread....don’t see ANY reference to weather conditions (I hope that I didn’t miss them). I had the same thing happen to me on a trip 4 years ago. In my case, it was EASY to figure out what happened....my RTS started to hydroplane. In my case it was raining. Was the highway/road surface in your case wet? The rough road surface made MY tires lose traction and opened the door for hydroplaning. just another thought to ponder.

Road surface was dry it was just a really rough and uneven.
What I'm discovering is 3 wheels is a unique configuration in itself.

[BertRemington]

PMK said it best -- the Spyder suspension is a bit of a noodle.

Car tires and aftermarket shocks will help. Perhaps some extra toe-in. I looked into urethane A-arm bushings. Maybe there's parts crossover from the snowmobile side of the house but I didn't have the contacts to pursue it.

I suggest you PM PMK and see what he suggests.

[RayBJ]

The WV thrill-ride road was dry and generally flat, except when I hit the bump that threw the RT into wobbling. Speed limit was 65, I may have been flying too low.

[BajaRon]

All new to me. I've ridden my 08 GS about as hard as I think it can be ridden. Of course it's nothing like the late models. But I have never heard of this happening before today. Must have been missing it.

[RayBJ]

Trust me when I tell you it scared the crap out of me. That's what happens when you chase your spirited 2-wheeled sport-touring pals on 3 wheels I guess.

[redrazor]

:yikes: YIKES!! A flat tire on the rear will definitely do that. It happened to me on the freeway with a slow leak. Wobble started out mild; but kept getting worse on a straight smooth road!?!? When I pulled over the rear tire was completely flat. Turns out that the 90 degree rear stem extension had unscrewed itself and slowly let the air escape. Glad I had my HD air compressor to plug in and fill up with the retightened valve in the stem. :cheers:

[Raven]

Ok I will be the first to admit that I don't know squat about Spyders.
But when the bike got light on the rough road, maybe the electronics kicked in.
I know on most two wheelers, when this happens it is because the rider is trying to correct and is out of sink with the bike.

[Peteoz]

PMK said it best -- the Spyder suspension is a bit of a noodle.

Car tires and aftermarket shocks will help. Perhaps some extra toe-in. I looked into urethane A-arm bushings. Maybe there's parts crossover from the snowmobile side of the house but I didn't have the contacts to pursue it.

I suggest you PM PMK and see what he suggests.

Ray’s wobble occurred on a Spyder WITH car tires, Elkas, stabiliser bar and laser alignment though, Bert.:dontknow:

[RayBJ]

I suppose it could have been me and Nanny fighting when the front got 'light' but I never touched the brakes and had to force the RT to the right to get back in my lane.

[Longtimer]

I would check the shocks if they have lost there damping it could cause that. We all have followed cars do the road and seen the wheel just bouncing up and down do to bad shocks in old vans that had solid front axle s shock would go bad and they start shacking so bad you think it was going to break you wrist. I would pull shocks take springs off and see if the damping is still there. Just a thought

[Peter Aawen]

Experienced the death wobble yesterday on a left hand turn probably doing 70. Pushing it into a left-hand turn, there was a really rough uneven spot in the road. .....


I had that happen on my '20 RT last spring in West Virginia. The RT is laser-aligned, has a BajaRon sway bar, Elka stage 2 shocks and Q5 tires. Was going very fast (70+) on a un-divided 4-lane highway in a left sweeper and hit a rough spot. ....

Have either of you ever checked or had checked the Camber & Caster on your Spyder's?? :dontknow:

I ask this because besides the 'noodle nature' of the 'A' arms & suspension and the inherent Bump Steer all that entails (particularly if you hit a rough spot) incorrect/too little positive Caster/too much positive Camber can cause exactly what you both describe, & this is especially so if you have minimal or negative Toe In... :sour: . The only real remedy for these Death Wobbles once they start is to hang on, try to maintain your line, & slow down gently, altho some might occasionally get away with accelerating thru them! :shocked:

Our Spyder's suspension settings, including Toe In/out, Camber, & Caster, will vary a little with the static suspension height; as the suspension articulates during use; and as you turn - so a lighter than expected ryder/load or aftermarket shocks that are a touch longer than OE with a bit more than ideal Pre-Load adjustment could push the ride height UP, increasing the Camber & pushing the Caster into the undesirable range for potential tank slapper Death Wobbles, especially if you have minimal Toe In &/or ou also get similarly undesirable changes due to either of those latter two causes of variation!!:sour: . If the static suspension settings are juuust a little close to the undesirable Camber/Caster limits, the Death Wobbles can also be induced by simply turning the handlebars juuust enough as the suspension articulates; hitting a bump & compressing the front shocks in juuust the right way; or extending the suspension juuust enough after cresting a rise or bump, altho that one usually occurs under acceleration... hence the serious issue with trying to accelerate thru them! :rolleyes:

We all know that there's no (simple :rolleyes: ) way of adjusting our Spyder/Ryker's Camber or Caster, but running a little more Toe In &/or adjusting the static ride height can make a difference (altho going too low is just as bad as going too high) but it might pay you both to check the alignment & the Camber & Caster readings of your machines - or get them all checked! If there's no or minimal Toe In, adding some will likely help; and if the Camber &/or Caster are too close to the undesirable range, adjusting the static ride height might be enough to reduce the chances of this happening again, or maybe you'll need to look further/deeper for the reason your machines readings are as close as they are... :dontknow: There are other things that can be done to change the Camber/Caster on these things, and there's other things (like Mike's (Blueknight911) upper shock mount mod to bring the shock more vertical) that can help minimise these issues, but apart from varying the static ride height, none of them are really all that easy &/or simple, and some are bloody expensive!! But if you hafta choose between regular bouts of the Death Wobbles or spending some time, $$, & effort on getting it sorted... :rolleyes:

All that said, for most Owners of Spyders/Rykers, these Death Wobbles are an extremely unlikely occurrence; for those with alignment settings closer to the undesirable limits, they are still going to be an unlikely & mostly infrequent event; and even if your settings are smack within the undesirable range, for most it'll still take a 'perfect storm' of all those variables coinciding at juuust the right instant to cause the Death Wobbles - something that shouldn't happen all that often! So it shouldn't be a frequent occurrence, even if it is bloody dangerous if/when it happens - and if it does start to happen even vaguely frequently, it needs to be sorted ASAP, before it becomes deadly! :lecturef_smilie:

[BertRemington]

PeterOz -- yep after scaring myself reading about the death wobble (my Spyder didn't have the death wobble but had treacherous turn-in until I replaced the tires and shocks) I missed his very complete inventory and gave a stock answer.

WRT toe, I'm sure a laser alignment includes tolerances and I was suggesting the toe-in direction.

But PeterA pointed out the most likely cause -- bump steer aggravated by "noodle" A-arms and rubber bushings.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Ok I will be the first to admit that I don't know squat about Spyders.
But when the bike got light on the rough road, maybe the electronics kicked in.
I know on most two wheelers, when this happens it is because the rider is trying to correct and is out of sink with the bike.

" electronics " .... this would be the " VSS ", and what it would do ... it would Slow the bike down to a SAFE speed .... which would be to Prevent wobble .... IMHO I think the issue is " NEW driver " .... Spyders are not at all like mtc's. and they require a LIGHT touch. folks who "| guide " their spyders do much better than those that try to steer them ( at speed ) ...... Mike :thumbup:

[RayBJ]

I wrote it off as a learning experience. At the time I only had 15,000 miles of high speed trailing the 2-wheelers with 3.

[Tonylmiller]

55, But not really sure I was doing 70 because I don't really look down at the sponometer when I'm in the curves and in the zone.
Pay more attention to the road, revs and gears.
Yeah I admit I was driving a little sporty!
Formerly riding motorcycles, I'm a newbie and still very careful in the corners. I'm becoming more confident every day, so I was just curious.

[Raven]

" electronics " .... this would be the " VSS ", and what it would do ... it would Slow the bike down to a SAFE speed .... which would be to Prevent wobble .... IMHO I think the issue is " NEW driver " .... Spyders are not at all like mtc's. and they require a LIGHT touch. folks who "| guide " their spyders do much better than those that try to steer them ( at speed ) ...... Mike :thumbup:

Our car has "yaw control". Growing up driving V8 pickups in a foot snow. The first time it kicked in it almost put me off the road.
Not a fan. I can live with ABS, but the rest I can do without.

[907Guy]

I was most likely traveling too fast for the existing road conditions- highway 26 from Portland to the cost, and the wobble probably lasted realistically four or five seconds it just felt like an eternity, time really slows down in a situation like that.
Don't think there's anything wrong with the spyder, just an overly aggressive rider use to riding high performance sport Turing bikes- BMW K1600 & 1250 RT.
I think the front-end is light and just can't handle abrupt uneven road surfaces at high speeds; doesn't have enough suspension travel.
I have a tendency to push beyond what reasonable riders would, just to test the waters; now I know!
Tucson to Seattle, 2500+ miles in 9 days, Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Bryce, Zion, Redwoods and up 101 around the Olympic Peninsula; I'm getting a feel for the bike.
Next stop Alaska in May.

[CloverHillCrawler]

Sorry about resurrecting an old thread but seeing as it was here I didn't want to create a new one. I had this happen to me the other day on the way home from work and was in a hurry.

I was up on a narrow road that is used to service the cell and radio towers along the ridge of catoctin mountain so it is not taken care of that well with a very uneven surface at times

I have a new set of shocks so I was probably going a lot faster than I should of been as the ride is a lot smoother now so I didn't realize how much faster I was going for that area.

I was listening to some music and the next thing I know I have all 3 wheels in the air after launching from a hump in the road and come down and the handlebars just start violently going back and forth, I rolled off of the throttle didn't freak out with any brakes just trying to maintain a general direction on the road and let the VSS do its thing... luckily within a couple of hundred feet the wobbling stopped and was able to continue on normally after cleaning my pants out.

[pegasus1300]

Truth be told, both tires were at 15psi cold this morning, at sea level because that's were I am. Two days ago when I checked them cold at 5500 ft they were 18psi. So maybe low pressure had something to do with what I experienced.


If I missed the post where you said your tires were car tires I'm sorry. On stock tires 15# is too low. They should be up around 28-30#. Check your label under the seat or your owner's manual

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

If I missed the post where you said your tires were car tires I'm sorry. On stock tires 15# is too low. They should be up around 28-30#. Check your label under the seat or your owner's manual

Kenda tires .....REAR =28/30 psi .....FRONT tires = 15/20 ( according to folks here who use them ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

[FrogmanDave]

If I missed the post where you said your tires were car tires I'm sorry. On stock tires 15# is too low. They should be up around 28-30#. Check your label under the seat or your owner's manual


Kenda tires .....REAR =28/30 psi .....FRONT tires = 15/20 ( according to folks here who use them ..... JMHO .... Mike :thumbup:

My dealer suggested I run my stock front Kendas at 15. I run them at 18.

[K80Shooter]

My dealer suggested I run my stock front Kendas at 15. I run them at 18.

I run mine at 17 so we're close in our thinking. No problem and I like the "feel" of things much better.

[ollicat]

I wonder if the VSS was freaking out