2021 RT Limited – first 1K miles – observations and questions

[PeterKelly]

I finally got my RTL last month and although the weather hasn’t been that great, I have done just over a thousand miles so far. Here are my initial observations and some questions that I would appreciate answered by experienced owners. I am posting this on the general board than the RT board as most of the comments and questions are general in nature and may be helpful to someone considering a Spyder.

Background – I am a 72-year-old relic who lives in Vancouver BC in the summer and Palm Desert CA in the winter. I have been riding big V Twins (Victory and HD) for years but tendon issues and surgery on my left hand have made using a clutch unbearably painful. I swapped my FLHXS in Vancouver for a 2021 GW DCT and although I am loving the GW motor, I am finding it a very big and unwieldy bike to handle at slow speeds. I have been lurking on this board for months learning as much about Spyders as I could and decided to sell my HD Street Glide down here in CA and get a 2021 RT L

Purchase experience – Like others have said it’s a seller’s market and I was not able to get deal in SoCal better than MSRP plus $3K dealer fees. I ended up buying it from iMotorsports in Chicago and having it shipped to me. The iMotorsports experience was a mixed bag, the deal and sales experience were good but getting some extras added on and getting the bike shipped to CA in the delivery window that I needed was disappointing. If I had to do it over again, I would probably hold my nose and get the bike from a local (although local is 90 miles away) dealer.

Extras added – I have been trolling this board for a while for “must have” extras. Currently I have the following on the bike, and I suspect there is more to come – heated comfort seat, Baja Ron sway bar, Pedal Commander, LED fender turn signals, Garmin XT hookup, 12 v accessory plug, LaMonster highway pegs and some Wrap my Spyder graphics and stripes.

Looks – I wanted a SoCal compliant dark model and the only color choices were the asphalt grey and the chalk white. I thought I might end up getting the bike vinyl wrapped with a more vibrant color, but I am quite pleased with the asphalt grey which has a greenish metallic tinge to it. The stripes and graphics make it a bit “custom” so overall I am happy with the look.

Comfort - The bike is very comfortable and has probably the best protection from the elements that I have ever had on a bike. The riding position spreads your legs quite wide, and the highway pegs don’t help as much as I hoped. The heated comfort seat seems quite comfortable, but the heating is a bust. The seat seems to turn itself off or dramatically lower the heat after a few minutes. Turning it off and on again doesn’t seem to help. I contrast the heated grips are hot (even on the low setting) and I find myself turning them off after ten minutes or so.

Handling – My only Spyder experience was a short test ride several months ago in Vancouver and based on that and all the information on this board I was expecting a challenging experience. I was not disappointed. The first rides were very white knuckle. I was not used to the amount of lateral force you get in sharp turns particularly in “off camber” situations. The “jittery” feeling that I first experienced was improved with the correct tire pressures (the bike was delivered with 28/28/30 !!) I have followed some of the advice given here and now brace my outside leg/foot and lean forward and into the turn. This has helped somewhat but there’s still a lot to get used to. I started out taking bends at the posted speed and that felt hair raising but I am now comfortable at 5 to 10 mph over posted speeds. Hopefully it will get better and better as I practice more. I have never really noticed road camber before, but the Spyder makes you really aware of it. I also discovered it’s pretty futile trying to dodge potholes with the three-wheel configuration.

Performance – I always expected to feel the difference between the grunt of my GW and the Spyder but the addition of the Pedal Commander has made a world of difference in how the bike performs. It obviously doesn’t make the bike any faster but really makes a difference in throttle response. I promised myself that I would wait a 1000 miles before installing it but I couldn’t wait that long and installed after 500 miles. I am currently riding at City plus 3 and have yet to try the Sport modes. As I said in my review on the PC site “it’s like getting a new bike for $350”

Tech and stereo - As expected, the BRP tech sucks. It feels at least ten years old. Key Fobs, auto locking, USB music compatibility etc. are commonplace on bikes costing this much and BRP needs to improve in this area. I had very low expectations of the stereo and perhaps because of this I find it acceptable at slow speeds. I have a Cardo Black in my ¾ helmet and will probably use it on trips with a lot of higher speed driving. I have found the bike loses BT connection with my phone occasionally and needs a reboot.

Paint and finish - The finish of the bike is generally good but the paint especially the black gloss and matt bits is ridiculously soft. I have scratches on the switch plate and trunk and have no earthly idea on how they got there. I thought HD paint was soft, but this is a whole new level of crappy paint. Wrap my Spyder has come to the rescue with some stick-on vinyl covers but it’s frustrating to have to deal with this on a $30K bike

Conclusion – I am happy I bought a Spyder. It’s not the same as a motorcycle but it allows me to do what I love to do (which is touring the countryside) in style and comfort. I hope it has extended my riding days by at least 5 years. Another bonus for me is my wife is happy to ride on the Spyder and she never showed any interest in joining me on my two-wheel machines. She says she feels comfortable and safe so that’s a real plus for the Spyder.

I have a few questions that I would like to get answered by the experienced Spyder riders on this board.

1) I am used to a clunk when shifting in to first on the big V Twins but the clunk the Spyder makes when shifting into reverse when cold is something else. It’s better, but still a significant clunk, when the bike is warm. Is this normal? Do you guys warm you bikes up before shifting into gear?

2) The fan (which is very noisy) seems to come on when idling for a while even though the temperature shows right in the middle of normal on the gauge. Is this normal?

3) As mentioned above the comfort heated seat loses heat after few minutes and will not warm up again even if I turn it on and off again. I have to wait a half hour or more before it will heat up again. Is this normal or did I get a lemon?

4) I am seriously considering swapping the front Kendas already. Is it OK to swap the fronts to Quatracs and leave the rear alone for the moment

5) I promised myself that I would leave the exhaust alone but I am wondering how people who have the Akropovic exhaust like them for sound?

Sorry, this turned out to be a long diatribe but thanks for reading it

[Rider Steve]

I've only had my RTL for a week and agree with you on some of those points you mentioned (the twisty's)... I'll be following this post as I know these guys are going to unload on you , a lot of it's going to very good stuff. Prepare for situation overload!

[Peter Aawen]

Here's some brief answers to your questions Peter (great name, that one! :thumbup: ) cos I'm sure others will want to add/expand...

1. Yes, the clunk is normal. You used to get it on the big V twins cos their already spinning constant mesh gearboxes hafta engage the stopped output gears/shaft etc, just like it needs to do on the Spyders; which is why they too clunk when selecting First from Neutral, only now you also get it on selecting Reverse from Neutral (the only way you can!) cos the already spinning constant mesh gearbox still hasta engage a stationary output shaft/gear/whatever. Warming the engine/gearbox oil up more will help minimise but not remove the clunk when selecting First and Reverse from Neutral - get used to it; it's normal, & it's not hurting anything. ;)

2. The fans coming on relatively early is a design feature intended to keep any excess heat off the rider's legs (there were major issues with this on earlier models) and to aid that, the fans are actually blowing forwards, away from the rider, & will continue to do so until you reach some specified road speed - someone might know exactly what that speed is, but regardless, the fans coming on early is normal. Wrt the temperature gauge, it isn't necessarily showing you exactly what the coolant temp is doing - as with most liquid cooled engines these days, the gauge is 'damped' so that it will move fairly rapidly up to the mid point or there-abouts once the coolant temp starts to rise; then once there, the needle won't vary position too much regardless of what the coolant temp is actually doing. This is to keep the 'unknowing masses' happy by not letting them see the temp gauge rise & fall all the time as the engine load/coolant temp varies as it must while the load/speed/airflow varies, and to stop them worrying whenever the needle gets up close to the H mark. This is because if the temp gauge worked properly & varied as much as the coolant temp actually does, the manufacturer is worried that owners would get upset - especially if the needle gets near the H mark, altho whilever it's in the 'normal range, the temp is fine - only the 'unknowing masses' tend to get worried needlessly about that needle moving up! So now, just like the rest of us, you've got a temp gauge on your Spyder & most likely every other liquid cooled vehicle you/we own that doesn't really show you/us what the coolant temp is actually doing - you've got a gauge needle which will rapidly rise to the middle of the 'normal' temp range, then generally only vary a little from that mid-point; and probably won't ever go beyond the 'normal' range until the engine/coolant has already over-heated! :banghead:

3. There's lots of threads/discussion on the issues with the seat heaters but no real resolution (yet :p ) - yours sounds as tho it behaves just like most of the rest.... sorry! ::(

4. It's certainly OK to swap out just the front tires, many do! ;) But just to throw this out there, you might want to ask yourself... if you can already notice how poor the front tires are, is it possible that the rear is just as bad if not worse, but you don't notice it quite so much because the fronts are more critical to your steering at this stage of your Spyder experience?? IMHO, the REAR Kenda is probably the worst performing tire on your Spyder, but you don't & probably won't notice it until you replace the fronts with something better and truly come to grips with the phenomenal handling your machine is capable of when it's properly shod! Just Sayin' :rolleyes:

5. Swapping the stock exhaust for an Akropovic will definitely change the sound, but not much else. As to how those who've fitted them like that, I'll leave that to them. Me, I tossed the Cat Converter, losing a noticeable amount of weight and a LOT of needlessly generated heat in the process, and improved the sound too. :thumbup:

Over to you, & Welcome to the Wonderful World of Spyder Ryding! :cheers:

[Pooch]

My 2021 RTLtd with right at 6,000 miles:
Has a significant clunk to reverse - even after good warmup.
The fan comes on just as yours does.
The heated seat performs exactly as yours… as well as the heated grips get quite hot and stay that way until I turn them off.
I too want to change the tires but still have decent wear left on the OEMs at this time.
I am not concerned about exhaust sound..leaving as is… like it more quiet.
I came to the Spyder off of a 2008 Gold Wing trike. Loved that trike…. Liking the Spyder almost as much..

[Rider Steve]

might want to read this thread... Should help.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?146068-Well-i-didn-t-expect-that

[RICZ]

I let the bike warm up while putting on my gear. The clutch does not like cold oil. Yes, the fans are noisy and come on when the temp gauge is in the middle.
Loose hands, loose arms and car tires make the ride better.

[Peteoz]

Great write up, PeterKelly……very useful observations there. I see you have already received some great tips, but I cannot believe the brevity of Peter Aawen’s answer. I usually have to plug my iPad into power to ensure my battery doesn’t go flat when reading his posts……..just kidding, his responses are ALWAYS on the money. :thumbup:

Here’s hoping you get all your concerns sorted. There’s nothing really new there :2thumbs: (except why your seat heat is cutting out - I’ll see if I can find the thread on it.

Pete (yep….another one:2thumbs:)

[Peteoz]

This was the only real outcome from earlier discussions, Peter Kelly -

This is from the page 34 of the Owner's Manual:

“Note: The heated seat will shut off when engine is under 800 RPM and will not resume automatically.”

It's driving me nuts, too. Find myself revving the engine at a stop to keep my dang tushy warm - still shuts off after 5 minutes.

Someone did point out that the Spyder usually idled at 900rpm, so this may not be the cause. It appears no real cause has been found as yet.

Pete

[Peter Aawen]

Great write up, PeterKelly……very useful observations there. I see you have already received some great tips, but I cannot believe the brevity of Peter Aawen’s answer. I usually have to plug my iPad into power to ensure my battery doesn’t go flat when reading his posts……..just kidding, his responses are ALWAYS on the money. :thumbup:

......

Pete (yep….another one:2thumbs:)


:p





:roflblack:

[Piratezz]

Akropovic, will change the sound dramaticly, I for meself run a catdelete from RLS, with stock exhaust, and love the sound, bit louder but not obnoxious, In previous threads, is already said, change one thing at a time, start with swaybar, then tires, then eventually shocks, so you can tell what difference they make, and as Peter always states, RYDE MORE, Woory Less...

[Jetfixer]

I have the Heated Comfort Seat, and while the low setting can sometimes hardly be detected, the high setting will definitely get my attention. (to be fair, when riding in temperatures that make me want to have the heat on, I usually already have on Freeze Out pants under my jeans, so maybe they are blocking some of the heat). My seat does not seem to cycle off by itself, just regulate like it's supposed to.

I switched to the Akropovic silencer and will not go back to stock! The sound is much deeper and somewhat louder. More so from the riders position than from an observers position standing beside it. I originally ran it with the cat delete pipe that has a Big City Thunder baffle in it, and decided that that arrangement was too loud. So now I've got the original pre-muffler and the Akropovic and that's how it's staying. And by the way, it looks better too!

Get rid of all the Kendas ASAP. You won't regret it. I run the Continental Conti Pro Contacts up front. Switched them out on day 1. They now have over 21k miles on them and measure 7/32" tread depth remaining. (They were 9/32" new). I switched to the Kumho Ecsta rear at first opportunity. After over 20k miles it was down to 3/32" and had started to hydroplane, so I switched it out yesterday for a General Altimax, which I've used before on a previous RTL. (to be fair to the Kumho, a lot of the miles were spent in the mountain twisties, either alone, two-up and/or pulling my RT622 trailer, so I'm not complaining about the life I got from it).

[iMotorsports]

Purchase experience – Like others have said it’s a seller’s market and I was not able to get deal in SoCal better than MSRP plus $3K dealer fees. I ended up buying it from iMotorsports in Chicago and having it shipped to me. The iMotorsports experience was a mixed bag, the deal and sales experience were good but getting some extras added on and getting the bike shipped to CA in the delivery window that I needed was disappointing. If I had to do it over again, I would probably hold my nose and get the bike from a local (although local is 90 miles away) dealer.


Sorry to hear this as we really had to jump through hoops to get this to you in California in the very narrow timeframe that you would accept. We actually had to bring it out to you more than once but typically things are not that difficult. Hopefully that $3000 eases the headache. Best of luck with your new ride and enjoy.

[ferrasr]

I to am very excited to be a first time Spyder owner and can not wait to ride the 2022 RTL. As mentioned this site has some great advice from some very experience members, thank you for that.

What I do find fascinating is the similarities for upgrades, add-ons, riding experiences with myself coming from 2 wheels and going to 3 wheels, which as pointed out are completely different experiences. On the BMW K1600 forum many members also recommend upgrading the windscreen, state the seat is crap so change it, the shocks need to be upgraded or at best should be changed out in the next 10,000KM and don't get people started on the garbage OEM tires, most just recommend changing them right away.

It is so fascinating to me that two completely different products, from two completely different manufactures can have so many similarities :shocked:

Thanks for all the great input.

Randy

[Peteoz]

I to am very excited to be a first time Spyder owner and can not wait to ride the 2022 RTL. As mentioned this site has some great advice from some very experience members, thank you for that.

What I do find fascinating is the similarities for upgrades, add-ons, riding experiences with myself coming from 2 wheels and going to 3 wheels, which as pointed out are completely different experiences. On the BMW K1600 forum many members also recommend upgrading the windscreen, state the seat is crap so change it, the shocks need to be upgraded or at best should be changed out in the next 10,000KM and don't get people started on the garbage OEM tires, most just recommend changing them right away.

It is so fascinating to me that two completely different products, from two completely different manufactures can have so many similarities :shocked:

Thanks for all the great input.

Randy

……don’t forget that ALL manufacturers try to keep costs down by using minimum spec components, aimed at a one-size-fits-all audience, Randy. As soon as you fall outside that audience, whether you are larger, taller, shorter, a speed demon etc etc there is a need to change the stock components. That means screens, seats, shocks, tyres as some of the first mods. So it really is just a fact of life that most motorcycle brands will need these changes:2thumbs:. I bet you don’t see anyone changing their swaybar on their K1600 though :roflblack:

Pete

[PeterKelly]

Sorry to hear this as we really had to jump through hoops to get this to you in California in the very narrow timeframe that you would accept. We actually had to bring it out to you more than once but typically things are not that difficult. Hopefully that $3000 eases the headache. Best of luck with your new ride and enjoy.

Hmm, that’s not the full story but PM sent

[pegasus1300]

Thank you for the very nice review. I hope you get many years of happy riding. I have a 2012 that now has 69,000+ on it and I too am hoping for many more miles. to answer your questions
1) yes it is normal,annoying but normal.
2)Yes
3) Unknown don't have one
4)Yes the sooner the better.But go ahead and do all three,you will be very happy
5) ?

[cruisinTX]

whatever

[OldAge]

I haven't read all of the responses here and can only address one of your concerns from somewhat related personal experience from accumulating close to 500K miles on bikes since 1968. I've never had a heated seat but do know from extensive training in health and exercise physiology, keeping your extremities and core (upper body) warm will be far mor beneficial in cold environments than keeping your behind warm. A heated vest or jacket combined with heated gloves would be your best investment if/when you choose to ride in colder temperatures. That's all I got. :D

Yeah, but if the "boss" likes a heated seat, you best get one. Nuff said. :roflblack:

[cruisinTX]

True that, but my "boss" also known as the biological governor, has learned to trust me on the heat issue. Others may not be as fortunate. :dontknow:

[RICZ]

keeping your extremities and core (upper body) warm will be far mor beneficial in cold environments than keeping your behind warm. A heated vest or jacket combined with heated gloves would be your best investment if/when you choose to ride in colder temperatures. That's all I got. :D
I have no idea how many miles I have on motorcycles since 1952, but the first heated saddle was a game changer. I have an excellent Gerbings heated jacket liner (arms, collar, the works) and a temp controller that now remains in the gear closet due to the heated saddle doing a great job of heating not only my core, but the big muscles in my upper legs too.
Saying more than I know; my guess is there is enough blood in your butt that circulates around your core and legs.
Thankfully, you admited that you never tried a heated saddle. Many who have, will never ride without one, including me. I have been in the Rockies and Alps in summer and woke to frost on the saddle. Started the bike and by the time I had my gear on, the saddle was nice and toasty. And dry!
In conclusion; with a heated saddle, I dress for the warm part of the day and don't have to stop for "clothing adjustments." Just switch it off.

[bikerbillone]

RICZ, well said, hey even in FL on those cold 40's mornings, that butt warmer feels real good. If I want to go north in sensibly cooler weather for some mountain riding, it still feels good.




20 RTL

[Crewless]

I'm 74 and live in Oregon. I ride the Cascade foothills a lot, it has taken me about a year to somewhat get the hang of crooked mountain roads. I finally learned how to push the handlebars thru the curves while planting your feet and downshifting to keep RPM up. Yes, I know it automatically downshifts but not to Mountain standards for me. I ride in hot and cold climates wet and dry. Why? because I'm old and enjoy riding.

I've never had a problem with the seat heater. Check with a dealer on that, If anything above 40 Degrees I sometimes turn it off (I wear Snow Bibed overalls modified with 20" zippers in the legs.)

I use Cardo Freecom2, with the latest Cardoconnect app, which works great with my ¾ helmet with an iphone12. I was losing connection with my phone and had to remove BRP connect from my phone's Bluetooth, now the cardo works great for me and my wife (When she rides in fair weather). The spyder may have great Bluetooth appeal to some but It created connective issues using Cardo.

I agree that BRP tech sucks, I have somewhat adjusted to the wire throttle but still looking at the Pedal Commander as an option.

My issues have been with the rear suspension, Since day one the Suspension Falt warning banner comes and goes. The air suspension just doesn't work, will not hold air. I've put to spyder in the shop 3 times. One time they replaced the instrument cluster??? no it didn't work. Seems it quits working after 15-30 minutes of highway speed. My Dealer is currently waiting for a new compressor and valve to arrive for another attempt to fix it. BRP seems to have a bad engineering issue with this suspension or my dealer is in a learning mode.

[Big F]

I don't like the reverse "clunk" as you say also.. My 2018 RTL has done that since I bought it new.. It sounds like the transmission is going out but many other Spyder owners tell me it is quite normal. One would think the engineers at BRP could solve this distasteful noise..
BIG F

[missouriboy]

...Yes, I know it automatically downshifts but not to Mountain standards for me...The auto downshift is only during stops, to avoid lugging the engine, not for performance. When you need passing gear, or any other high RPM requirements, ya gotta do it yourself. No apologies needed!

Welcome to the club!

[Peter Aawen]

I don't like the reverse "clunk" as you say also.. My 2018 RTL has done that since I bought it new.. It sounds like the transmission is going out but many other Spyder owners tell me it is quite normal. One would think the engineers at BRP could solve this distasteful noise..
BIG F

That clunk is perfectly normal, isn't hurting anything, & it's a feature of any/every motorcycle or machine with neutral & a constant mesh transmission! :lecturef_smilie:

This is because whenever you select Reverse (or First from Neutral) the transmission must be disengaged & stopped before First or Reverse can be picked up by the already spinning engine output. I'm assured it's all to do with basic physics - some time ago this fella called Newton worked out that "An object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force." Objects (or first/reverse gears) tend to "keep on doing whatever they're doing" unless there's a external force applied (ie, you selecting a gear - hence the clunk ;) ). In fact, it is the natural tendency of objects to resist changes ... which basically means that no matter what the engineers might try to do, if you select either First or Reverse from Neutral, there's going to be some degree of clunk! And you'll probably tend to notice the 'selecting First' clunk less, cos you'll usually then run on (clunkless) thru the rest of the now already spinning forward gears.... But when you come to a stop & (no matter how quickly/smoothly it may seem to happen to you ;) ) select Neutral so that the transmission gears can stop and then select Reverse to start them spinning again, only now the other way, the clunk is waaayy more obvious (in fact, if you try to force it too quickly, the clunk may well be worse, cos the gears may not have completely stopped spinning the other way! :shocked: ) but it's still unavoidable!! Well, it's unavoidable unless someone smarter'n us can change those basic laws of physics or work out an inertia-less way around them?! :dontknow:

So just like every other motorcycle &/or machine with neutral & a constant mesh transmission, that clunk ain't going nowhere!! Probably the major reason you notice it so much on your Spyder when selecting Reverse is cos very few other motorcycles have an actual 'reverse gear' built into their constant mesh trans like our Spyders do, so they only feel it when selecting First from Neutral, while we've got a stand-alone built in & outstanding feature instead of something tacked on as an after-thought, if at all! :thumbup:

[mecsw500]

I have a few questions that I would like to get answered by the experienced Spyder riders on this board.

1) I am used to a clunk when shifting in to first on the big V Twins but the clunk the Spyder makes when shifting into reverse when cold is something else. It’s better, but still a significant clunk, when the bike is warm. Is this normal? Do you guys warm you bikes up before shifting into gear?

2) The fan (which is very noisy) seems to come on when idling for a while even though the temperature shows right in the middle of normal on the gauge. Is this normal?

3) As mentioned above the comfort heated seat loses heat after few minutes and will not warm up again even if I turn it on and off again. I have to wait a half hour or more before it will heat up again. Is this normal or did I get a lemon?

4) I am seriously considering swapping the front Kendas already. Is it OK to swap the fronts to Quatracs and leave the rear alone for the moment

5) I promised myself that I would leave the exhaust alone but I am wondering how people who have the Akropovic exhaust like them for sound?

Sorry, this turned out to be a long diatribe but thanks for reading it

Pretty much my experience.

I wouldn't change much suspension/steering wise until you get used to it. I think since i have got the hang of it and I don't have a death grip anymore, i'm not sure i'll bother with shocks, sway bar or tires until I've racked up some miles on the OEM parts. The OEM tires aren't brilliant in my opinion, but they are not that bad. They seem to work fine on the freeway, in the canyons and in the rain. I run 18 lbs in them. They are VERY sensitive to pressure. Now I'm used to it, I've not found tire grip to be a limiting factor in cornering or braking, let alone traction. To be honest, I've learned to corner with a brake/turn/power out kind of method and it seems to reduce the roll a fair bit. See "Dave Moss 2-Clicks Out" YouTube videos to see how he teaches novice track day riders to do this and I think it suits Spyders too.

My seat heater comes on OK and stays on until I get 3rd degree burns. My wife says her back seat is very cosy even on lower setting.

As for exhaust, I'm pretty deaf and have to take my hearing aids out to get my helmet on, so any exhaust note is fine for me. My wife says it's nice and quiet as stock and wants it to stay that way. Frankly unless you take the cat out, changing the end pipe probably won't make a whole bunch of difference in sound, even on an almost open pipe. I don't think an exhaust change will make it go any faster. So I'm leaving mine stock and will save the money for other bits and bobs.

Your mileage may vary of course, just my opinions. Stay safe.