A Key Question?

[daz]

My cousin's key got broken in the washing machine. The machine ate the metal part that goes into the keyhole. He has the top chip part.

Can he order a new key online or from the dealer?

Can he have a new metal part cut and keep the chip part with it to use as a spare? Like on a key ring. Of course he is now using his spare key but wants a little insurance if he washes that too.

Thanks!

2019 F3

[RayBJ]

For about $5. cut a blank and try it! A replacement coded key is expensive.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

My cousin's key got broken in the washing machine. The machine ate the metal part that goes into the keyhole. He has the top chip part.

Can he order a new key online or from the dealer?

Can he have a new metal part cut and keep the chip part with it to use as a spare? Like on a key ring. Of course he is now using his spare key but wants a little insurance if he washes that too.

Thanks!

That should work. Worth a try. For testing purposes I have put a non-chip key in the ignition and held the chip key next to it. Spyder started right up. You don't need to keep the chip near the key once the bike is running.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

That should work. Worth a try. For testing purposes I have put a non-chip key in the ignition and held the chip key next to it. Spyder started right up. You don't need to keep the chip near the key once the bike is running.

:agree: .... in-convenient, but it should work ...... and lots less ex-pensive .....Mike :thumbup:

[2dogs]

Neet! I'm gonna try that and see if it works on my spyder.

[Poasttown]

Is there a battery in the key holder that makes this work?

Poasttown
2019 F3L

[Peter Aawen]

Is there a battery in the key holder that makes this work?

Poasttown
2019 F3L

No. The chip in the key is passive. It doesn't need power at all, cos relies on the security system in the Spyder to read the data it holds, so there's no need for the key to ever have any power... that's why this'll work! :ohyea:

The metal part of the key itself opens the ign lock, but it doesn't need to have the chip connected or inserted; that chip just needs to be held near enough to the DESS antenna that surrounds the ign key slot & the DESS security polling thing that looks for the info stored passively on the chip is all powered & done in/by the Spyder. :thumbup:

[billybovine]

No. The chip in the key is passive. It doesn't need power at all, cos relies on the security system in the Spyder to read the data it holds, so there's no need for the key to ever have any power... that's why this'll work! :ohyea:

The metal part of the key itself opens the ign lock, but it doesn't need to have the chip connected or inserted; that chip just needs to be held near enough to the DESS antenna that surrounds the ign key slot & the DESS security polling thing that looks for the info stored passively on the chip is all powered & done in/by the Spyder. :thumbup:

I have to disagree with you. The chip in the key does need power. The power comes from the DESS antenna wrapped around the ignition switch. When the ignition is turned on. The DESS antenna sends electromagnetic pulse. This energises the key chip. It then responds by transmitting a code. I agree that no battery or physical connection required.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I have to disagree with you. The chip in the key does need power. The power comes from the DESS antenna wrapped around the ignition switch. When the ignition is turned on. The DESS antenna sends electromagnetic pulse. This energises the key chip. It then responds by transmitting a code. I agree that no battery or physical connection required.

:agree: In fact it was this aspect of the DESS that was the cause of most of the DESS problems with the early 2014 models. The DESS, via the antenna, sent too strong a signal to the key, saturating the key and causing it to respond with mangled key codes.

[Peter Aawen]

I have to disagree with you. The chip in the key does need power. The power comes from the DESS antenna wrapped around the ignition switch. When the ignition is turned on. The DESS antenna sends electromagnetic pulse. This energises the key chip. It then responds by transmitting a code. I agree that no battery or physical connection required.

The key & it's chip doesn't carry any onboard power - as I said in my post, the key itself is passive; Spyder's on-board system provides all the necessary power to read the chip. ;) And yes, the issue with the 'improved' DESS was that there was too much power swamping the read.... :thumbup:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The key & it's chip doesn't carry any onboard power - as I said in my post, the key itself is passive; Spyder's on-board system provides all the necessary power to read the chip. ;) And yes, the issue with the 'improved' DESS was that there was too much power swamping the read.... :thumbup:

I think we're getting wrapped around semantics here. The key needs and uses electrical power to transmit its code to the DESS antenna. That power is generated by the DESS antenna transmitting electromagnetic radiation to the key. The key has a chip, or whatever, that generates power when it's bombarded by the EMF waves from the DESS. So yes, the key is passive as it does not need a physically connected source of power such as a battery, but on the other hand it is active in that it does receive power in the form of EMF waves thus generating its own electricity.

[Peter Aawen]

Is there a battery in the key holder that makes this work?

Poasttown
2019 F3L


No. The chip in the key is passive. It doesn't need power at all, cos relies on the security system in the Spyder to read the data it holds, so there's no need for the key to ever have any power... that's why this'll work! :ohyea:

The metal part of the key itself opens the ign lock, but it doesn't need to have the chip connected or inserted; that chip just needs to be held near enough to the DESS antenna that surrounds the ign key slot & the DESS security polling thing that looks for the info stored passively on the chip is all powered & done in/by the Spyder. :thumbup:


I think we're getting wrapped around semantics here. The key needs and uses electrical power to transmit its code to the DESS antenna. That power is generated by the DESS antenna transmitting electromagnetic radiation to the key. The key has a chip, or whatever, that generates power when it's bombarded by the EMF waves from the DESS. So yes, the key is passive as it does not need a physically connected source of power such as a battery, but on the other hand it is active in that it does receive power in the form of EMF waves thus generating its own electricity.

I answered the question as it was posted.... the KEY is passive - IT does not have or need onboard power, nor does the key-fob have or need on-board power!! The Spyder's DESS reads the info on the passive chip which is embedded in the rubbery bit of the key. :rolleyes:

[bigbadbrucie]

I wish that there was a “I don’t like these bickering posts”! I do hope that we’ve been subjected to the end of this.

just me .02 cents.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I can't resist! :)

From this web page, https://advanced-keys.co.uk/index.php?route=news/article&news_id=20.


What Is A Transponder Key For A Car?

A transponder is essentially an electronic chip, which has a fine wire coil around it to transmit and receive electromagnetic signals. The chip itself is similar to the memory storage in your computer or smartphone in that it doesn’t require a constant source of power to retain memory. This is known as non-volatile memory. The kind of transponder used in a car key is known as a Magnetic Coupled Transponder system. These systems don’t require constant electricity, and therefore don’t have their own power source. A car key transponder operates in a radio frequency range (around 125kHz), meaning that it can penetrate plastic or rubber, which is why we’re able to place it within the bow of the key. Because they don’t have their own power source, car key transponders only have a range of between 1-15cm.

How Does A Car Key Transponder Work?

As well as a transponder chip in the key, modern cars also have an induction coil that is fitted around the ignition barrel. When the key is inserted into the barrel and turned to the ‘on’ position, the induction coil sends out a pulse of electromagnetic energy. The wire coil around the transponder chip absorbs this energy, which powers the chip and causes it to emit a signal, which is the key’s identification code. This signal is sent back to the induction coil, which reads the code. If the code is recognised by the vehicle’s on-board computer, it will commence the car’s start procedure and allow it to run. In recent years transponder systems have been developed to use cryptographic or rolling codes so that the code cannot be copied from the vehicle’s computer.

[daz]

Yes, well my cousin says thanks. We both live in Ohio and we're here in Florida on vacation. It's a darned good thing he had the spare with him! Not locked up in the safe at home.

I had to have the entire DESS module replaced on my 2011 RT a few years ago. A real pain! (2018 RTL now).

Thank you gentlemen for the help!