Spyder RT and Honda ST

[Lamonster]

SpyderGirl and her SO just left my place and he was riding the Honda ST. It looks like the RT could be the ST's three legged brother. :D

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2577/3942058616_eb6348bfee.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3499/3941279627_edbd96242e.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2522/3941282435_aea09ba824.jpg

[Dudley]

Ehhhhhh. Maybe second cousin?

[DynamoBT]

Quite amazingly similar!!

[spyderlover2]

hey Lamonster, put the RT next to a BMW K1200LT, or maybe a Goldwing (not the trike). i think the LT's tail lights are even more similar.
very nice pics, and the colors are WAY similar! :2thumbs:

[spyderlover2]

PS...the RT is way cool, even next to an awesome tested and tried machine like the ST. :firstplace: i cant wait til i get the chance to own one.

[Bersquack]

The front looks similar, not so much the back.

[spyderlover2]

http://used.brownmotorworks.net/images/used/K1200lt/07_K1200LT_10b.jpg
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=478&pictureid=5857

basically the same, but imagine the RT took the BMW's rear end and split it down the middle and widened it too! its basically the same...i think so anyways,:dontknow: whadaya think?? :2thumbs:

[vtrider]

[quote=Lamonster;144690]SpyderGirl and her SO just left my place and he was riding the Honda ST. It looks like the RT could be the ST's three legged brother. :D

I used to have that same black Honda ST1300. I traded it for my spyder. It was a real nice bike and I kind of miss it in some ways. that electric lift windshield was a real nice feature, as I'm sure it is on the RT Spyder.

[chris56]

??? how can a canadian ranger with a strong heart from austria ...
be the brother of a japanese soulles product
chris

[ataDude]

... I used to have that same black Honda ST1300. I traded it for my spyder. It was a real nice bike and I kind of miss it in some ways. that electric lift windshield was a real nice feature, as I'm sure it is on the RT Spyder.

I had a blue, 2004 ST. And, you're right... great bike... great windshield. :2thumbs:

.

[BLACK WIDOW]

http://used.brownmotorworks.net/images/used/K1200lt/07_K1200LT_10b.jpg
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=478&pictureid=5857

basically the same, but imagine the RT took the BMW's rear end and split it down the middle and widened it too! its basically the same...i think so anyways,:dontknow: whadaya think?? :2thumbs:

You know, you are right. The RT is a 3 wheel Goldbmwing. Or something like that.

[spyderlover2]

You know, you are right. The RT is a 3 wheel Goldbmwing. Or something like that.
:roflblack: nice one!
i see it as a top of the line cycle that has its own style. i posted those pics to kinda compare...but now i am not sure! it does look similar to other 2 wheelers, but still maintains its own awesome look! i like that too! i am just frustrated that i cant get one yet! plus, it kinda does need a 1200-1300 v-twin! that would make it over the top for me! i might just have to win the lottery and buy one...:roflblack:

[RoadRunner]

If only we could get those two to mate, we'd have a piece-de-resistance! Give that RT a heart transplant with the ST's 1300 V4 and she'd be a force to reckon with! I have an '03 ST and very much enjoy the bike. It is heavy for a two wheeler (over 700 lbs.) but very much spirited, (not as much as a Yamaha FJR, which is a SPORT-Tourer; the ST is a Sport-TOURER. The others on here that had ST's can attest to that). Mine has a factory topbox, and with that, it looks even more like a distant cousin of the RT. Much discussion exist on here about the RT possibly needing more power, and I believe that Rotax is more inefficient than most - I think the ST's V4 is the answer! In fact, if I were to ever come across an RT with a blown motor, I'd seriously consider buying it and take the V4 out of my ST and perform the transplant surgery! The result would be a trike with soul, and better gas mileage to boot! And...no concern about running 100K miles and beyond! :2thumbs:

By the way, ST's are only available in one color/year also. You want a different color? Hope next year's model is the one you want! And the power winshield? - love it, and I thought it was going to be a toy I wouldn't use as part of the ABS package. I use it all the time!

Nonetheless, I'm interested in the RT....only time will tell if I swallow the hook completely! I appreciate this group and their honesty - not to mention their humor!

[BajaRon]

... it kinda does need a 1200-1300 v-twin!

Have you ridden the RT?

How can people say it needs a bigger motor until they ride it?

I can understand that some may THINK it needs a bigger motor (as I did). But without riding it there is really no way to know.

I rode quite a few miles behind Lamont and his new RT the other day. After riding several thousand miles behind Lamont I have a pretty good feel for how fast he is on his SM5.

The RT has a re-configured Rotax and I'd say it's at least as fast in most situations as the SM5. Top end may suffer a bit but do you really need to do 120mph with your wife on the back?

Now I'm always for more power so don't get me wrong. On the other hand, let's ride the RT before we bash the engine. It's not the same power plant we have in the Spyder we're riding now.

[NancysToy]

Have you ridden the RT?

How can people say it needs a bigger motor until they ride it?

I can understand that some may THINK it needs a bigger motor (as I did). But without riding it there is really no way to know.

I've ridden quite a few miles behind Lamont the other day. After riding a several thousand miles behind Lamont I have a pretty good feel for how fast his is on his SM5.

The RT has a re-configured Rotax and I'd say it's at least as fast in most situations as the SM5. Top end may suffer a bit but do you really need to do 120mph with your wife on the back?

Now I'm always for more power so don't get me wrong. On the other hand, let's ride the RT before we bash the engine. It's not the same power plant we have in the Spyder we're riding now.
Well said, Ron. I have been wondering how to counter all this negative talk about the power, when folks haven't even ridden the RT yet, and almost all motorcycles these days are vastly overpowered for legal speeds and the jobs they were designed to do. You expressed my feelings nicely. Thanks.

[vtrider]

My dealer will be getting an RT sometimes in November which they will have on hand as a demo unit. I hope to get a chance to drive it. It sure does look like something that I would like to own someday, but for now I'll just keep my Red SM5 and enjoy it all that I can.

[RoadRunner]

Not bashing... just dreaming! And admittedly, I'm a MAJOR Honda fan, (I've own(ed) too many Honda cars, bikes, and outdoor power products to count!). I've not ridden an RT, so yes, your admonishment is somewhat deserved. I have ridden an RS, but it was during a factory demo group ride so the course and speed were very conservative so I really didn't get a chance to sense what the Rotax could do. My comments were basically based on comments Fred and Lamont have made about a desire for improved passing speed on their RTs. This is where the ST's V4 shines, IMHO. As someone else has said, horsepower will get you out of trouble more than it will get you into trouble. My comments about fuel efficiently are also based on numbers others have posted here. With two-up on my ST, (about 400 lbs. of humans), fully loaded saddle bags and top box, and over 700 lbs. of bike, I still would get mid-upper 40's on freeway - and 300 mile range.

...and I did say, and still say after all that, that I'm interested in the RT and hope to demo one next spring.

[spyderlover2]

nice posts people! :clap:
i think that all of the negative posts are because of some of the past problems others have had on their Spyder's they have now.
the RT has been reconfigured. we do need to give it a chance first. and if 2 riders that have been riding for years say that it has plenty of power for what its designed for, and they have also tested the RT, then we need to take their advice and consider their years of experience riding and trust what they say. why else do we think they gave one to Lamont in the first place....TO TEST IT! he has had nothing but great things to say about it. plus, what about all of the glowing reports from all of those who have seen it now, that are on this site too, that went to the BBQ at Lamonts pad!
i agree that most bikes today have way more power than they actually need! i dont know of any place in the USA that you can legally ride over 70mph anyways. anything over that is just spoiling ourselves and risking others at the same time.
i also believe that people just arent sold on the reliability of the Rotax! i know i'm not. we all seem to be used to all of the other types of engines like honda's and all of the rest! plus, we dont really know of anyone that has broken 100,000 miles with a Rotax without having something go wrong.
we all just need to realize that this cycle called Spyder, is still very new. its only in its 2nd and 3rd year of existance. i believe that the technology BRP has put into this awesome machine and made it affordable to the general public is quite a leap. and i haven't really seen too many real problems with the Spyder's yet. i have seen various recalls, hot feet, some expensive repairs and fixes, and that sort of thing, but those bugs are working themselves out.
dont get me wrong, i would like to see a bit more power in the RT myself because i tend to like to get out ahead of everyone on the road, with a nice quiet ride like the ST's or BMW's. thats just my opinion! but i also know that the RT will have enough power to keep up with traffic and more. called me spoiled but i like having that little bit of an edge on my side.
not to mention...there are mods out there that can get Spyder riders a bit more power. why BRP doesnt make the Spyder with that much power added in the first place is beyond me, but i dont own a business either, so maybe thats part of my misunderstanding.
lets just concentrate on getting the RT out in the marketplace first and then just see how well its received by the ones here on these forums that can afford them! i trust Lamonts opinions and years of experience.
i have been searching for a ride EXACTLY like the new RT-S, so i would be the first one to be very very disappointed if it turned out to be a lemon, AND, the first to come on here and let everyone know how i feel too. then i would tear into BRP.
for now...i am very pro-RT-S because i like what i see and hear about it! at least until i ride one. then that will be the true test for me!
i can't bust on any ride until I RIDE IT FIRST!
i can say what i would prefer to see or hear, or the kind of ride i would like to feel cruising down the road, but i cannot bust on a ride and have it defeated before it even makes it to the sales floor.
lets give this new ride a chance!
i LOVE all the opinions on here, and all of the caring and very helpful people on this site. i have never been a part of something like this before, but then again, this site has a ton of people who really care for their fellow riders. this is why i joined this site!
address the negative but stay positive out there. :chat:
all of the above is just my opinion! :2thumbs:

[spyderlover2]

[quote=RoadRunner;145634] My comments about fuel efficiently are also based on numbers others have posted here. With two-up on my ST, (about 400 lbs. of humans), fully loaded saddle bags and top box, and over 700 lbs. of bike, I still would get mid-upper 40's on freeway - and 300 mile range.
quote]

i have to agree with anyone who thinks that any one of the Spyder's should get better gas mileage! i do understand the whole "3 wheels on the ground" thing, but seriously, in this day and age where CARS are getting better gas and fuel mileage than a small cycle with only 3 wheels is rediculous! i also get the the Spyder has more torque and most likely more horsepower too....but come on! if a larger CC engine gets more mileage....something is very wrong.....:dontknow:
anyone agree? or am i missing something here. please enlighten me! thanks

[NancysToy]

My comments about fuel efficiently are also based on numbers others have posted here. With two-up on my ST, (about 400 lbs. of humans), fully loaded saddle bags and top box, and over 700 lbs. of bike, I still would get mid-upper 40's on freeway - and 300 mile range.


i have to agree with anyone who thinks that any one of the Spyder's should get better gas mileage! i do understand the whole "3 wheels on the ground" thing, but seriously, in this day and age where CARS are getting better gas and fuel mileage than a small cycle with only 3 wheels is rediculous! i also get the the Spyder has more torque and most likely more horsepower too....but come on! if a larger CC engine gets more mileage....something is very wrong.....:dontknow:
anyone agree? or am i missing something here. please enlighten me! thanks
There is a lot more involved in fuel mileage than weight or displacement alone. The biggest offender is drag. This is compounded by speed. You will never find a three wheeled vehicle with open suspension that will get anywhere near as good of mileage as a fully faired two wheeler. A faired bike will always get better mileage than an identical naked bike. You will also never find a bike with a top box that gets as good of mileage as a comparable bike without one. It's a simple matter of physics. Now I know there are four wheelers that are heavier still, that can get better mileage. This is primarily done by streamlining and aerodynamics. The plain and simple fact is that aerodynamically, like many other vehicles, the Spyder is "dirty." If we want the stability and the looks, we have to accept the trade-off.

BTW, I don't think it is really fair to compare a full touring machine like the RT-S, GW, or BMW LT to a Sport-TOURER or SPORT-Tourer like the ST, BMW RT, etc., especially in terms of performance.

[spyderlover2]

THANKS SCOTTY!!! :clap:

i forgot all about DRAG! you are right! :agree:
even if we compare the Goldwing and the RT-S...
they do get similar MPG's! they both get a little over 30mpg's! whereas the Goldwing Trike gets under 30mpg's from what i've heard! dont quote me on that, its just something i have heard from somewhere!
if what i said about those vehicles and their mpg's is true, then the RT-S and the RS's are right on the mark mileage wise, basically! :thumbup:
i guess what is needed is Fairing. but that still wont compensate for the wide stance! i guess spending a few more bucks at the pump is compensation enough for the safety and stability that's enjoyed, and a great looking ride! :2thumbs:

once again Scotty, your wisdom about these subjects is very helpful in understanding these things!
thank you sir! nojoke:2thumbs:

[BajaRon]

A lot of great comments and I'd say, pretty much on track. I don't mean to get on anyone as I certainly am just one voice in the crowd

I was (like many of you) dissappointed that the RT didn't have a bit more motor. I like more power as much as the next guy.

Still, the RT is looking at a certain market and it probably isn't heavily populated with people wanting to challange a V-Rod (if you get my meaning).

No ride does everything well.

When you squeeze a lot of power from a little engine you're going to have MPG issues. Still, the Goldwing doesn't do any better. I'm not sure what you'd get out of a Harley trike. Probably better than either of these would be my guess.

My initial tendency was to complain about the current power plant in the RT. But after riding with and talking to Lamont I realize that maybe I should hold off on my pontificating until I have a bit more info.

You have to remember, Lamont has owned a 355HP Boss Hoss (that he wanted to get more HP out of), a Super Charged / Nitrous injected Valkyrie (that he wanted to go faster) and a Suzuki M109R with pumped up HP and Nitrous (that was too slow).

I really think the RT (though it won't be everyone's ride) will surprise many as far as available power goes.

[NancysToy]

No ride does everything well.
I think I'll have that made into a sign to put on my garage wall......or maybe a t-shirt. :D

[BajaRon]

I think I'll have that made into a sign to put on my garage wall......or maybe a t-shirt. :D

From a guy that's "Always Late" to "The Professor" I'll take that as a great complement (though I stole that statement from someone else)! :D

[Oldmanzues]

The fuel milage thing is how honest everybody is and how do they ride. I rode with a guy on a Gold Wing. He claimed to get over fifty MPG. Funny thing is, Another guy on a Wing and me on my ST always took less fuel on the same rides. Does this mean, I get way over fifty on my ST (when I ride it) instead of high forties, I thought I got.

Old Man Zues

[BLACK WIDOW]

Have you ridden the RT?

How can people say it needs a bigger motor until they ride it?

I can understand that some may THINK it needs a bigger motor (as I did). But without riding it there is really no way to know.

I rode quite a few miles behind Lamont and his new RT the other day. After riding several thousand miles behind Lamont I have a pretty good feel for how fast he is on his SM5.

The RT has a re-configured Rotax and I'd say it's at least as fast in most situations as the SM5. Top end may suffer a bit but do you really need to do 120mph with your wife on the back?

Now I'm always for more power so don't get me wrong. On the other hand, let's ride the RT before we bash the engine. It's not the same power plant we have in the Spyder we're riding now.

I haven't read anything that was bashing the RT--I have read a lot of opinions both pro & con. However, I think the laws of physics are pretty well proven (at least that is what was taught when I went to college) and as for the RT; I for one really like it and would probably have already ordered one if I felt better about the engine thing. More weight, more drag, less HP (Doesn't matter how you shift it around it is less HP.) less performance than I am used to and happen to like. I don't see how any one would draw any other conclusion. I agree that some will for sure think it is enough power and some will not, but after you buy one it is to late then to change your mind. IMHO-nojoke--BTW my wife loves the thing and wouldn't care if it had a 40 hp Brigs & Stratton; So I'll probably be riding one too.:D

[NancysToy]

I haven't read anything that was bashing the RT--I have read a lot of opinions both pro & con. However, I think the laws of physics are pretty well proven (at least that is what was taught when I went to college) and as for the RT; I for one really like it and would probably have already ordered one if I felt better about the engine thing. More weight, more drag, less HP (Doesn't matter how you shift it around it is less HP.) less performance than I am used to and happen to like. I don't see how any one would draw any other conclusion. I agree that some will for sure think it is enough power and some will not, but after you buy one it is to late then to change your mind. IMHO-nojoke--BTW my wife loves the thing and wouldn't care if it had a 40 hp Brigs & Stratton; So I'll probably be riding one too.:D
How about a 3 1/2 horse Briggs & Stratton. :joke:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=129&pictureid=942

[spyderlover2]

this site has a trike similar to the Spyder but it gets MAJOR mpg's because it runs on vapors instead of liquid fuel!

Reverse Trike Motorcycle Club (http://reversetrike.com/ale.html)

its not in production! but it sure is cool to look at and also defys some the ideas that more power means paying more at the pump!
its just something to check out! enjoy Spyderlovers!

[BajaRon]

The fuel milage thing is how honest everybody is and how do they ride. I rode with a guy on a Gold Wing. He claimed to get over fifty MPG. Funny thing is, Another guy on a Wing and me on my ST always took less fuel on the same rides. Does this mean, I get way over fifty on my ST (when I ride it) instead of high forties, I thought I got.

Old Man Zues

It is funny! I've ridden with the same kind of person. Here is what I think happens (at least with some).

The guy makes a good mileage run, doesn't fill the tank all the way and calculates 50 (or whatever) MPG using round numbers.

Then, forever after, they think they are getting 50mpg and they never check again.

Just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Rode from San Luis Obispo to San Diego with my Brother-in-Law this summer. He just got a new Harley soft tail. He said he was getting 50 mpg. We rode pretty fast, 75~80 mph most of the way and he really did get 50 mpg. So it does happen.

[BLACK WIDOW]

How about a 3 1/2 horse Briggs & Stratton. :joke:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=129&pictureid=942

Scotty, if you can put a Goldwing seat on that thing and maybe some make-up storage, I think my wife might be interested.:D

Michael:doorag:

[RoadRunner]

Yeap - the aero-drag is definitely contributing to the gas consumption. I wonder what the coefficient of drag is for the RT? By an unscientific test I ran on my ST1300, I found a reduction of 7 mpgs when I had my windshield all the way up (+7") as compared to all the way down, at 60 mph. I'd also like to see brake specific fuel consumption figures for the Rotax and other similar liter twins, or any liter configuration for that matter - and NOT because I think the Rotax is junk - I'm just curious as to how it stacks up to its peers. A good article on the subject of BSFC for those that are interested: http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_110216/article.html

BTW - thanks for not beating me up too badly for what some must have thought was bashing, since I'm a newbie here. Honestly, I'm very interested in this type of ride, especially the RT, (why else would I be here? - same reason as the rest of you). I only have one functioning balance nerve, and while I handle two wheels without issue, I suspect my wife would be much more comfortable on a Spyder, esp the RT. We'll see what kind of bonus God graces us with in November. It's times like this that I wish I lived in a warmer climate so I wouldn't have to wait til spring to demo the RT! I feel spring/RT fever comin' on already!

[NancysToy]

......It's times like this that I wish I lived in a warmer climate so I wouldn't have to wait til spring to demo the RT! I feel spring/RT fever comin' on already!
You can say that again. Make that times ten when you expect the RTS you ordered to come in the midst of a Michigan winter! By the warmth of April I'll be a basket case. :D

[Firefly]

You can say that again. Make that times ten when you expect the RTS you ordered to come in the midst of a Michigan winter! By the warmth of April I'll be a basket case. :D


I remember that they said my PE might arrive in November/December--- and while I was excited about it---- there wasn't a darn thing I could really do with it at that point. Got mine in late March and ended up trailering it hope---- as I'm not crazy like some folks who ride theirs home with snow still on the ground-----:joke:

Let me know if you need to borrow my trailer to go pick it up--- I've got a HUGE Big-Tex trailer --- could probably hold 2 RT's--- and can for sure hold 50 sheep (don't ask).

Hopefully you can get on a demo before winter ends---

[NancysToy]

I remember that they said my PE might arrive in November/December--- and while I was excited about it---- there wasn't a darn thing I could really do with it at that point. Got mine in late March and ended up trailering it hope---- as I'm not crazy like some folks who ride theirs home with snow still on the ground-----:joke:

Let me know if you need to borrow my trailer to go pick it up--- I've got a HUGE Big-Tex trailer --- could probably hold 2 RT's--- and can for sure hold 50 sheep (don't ask).

Hopefully you can get on a demo before winter ends---
......who shall remain nameless! :D First test of the VSS can't come too soon. LOL Thanks for the offer of the trailer. I am going to try to keep my trailer clear of snow and at the ready. If I have to pick it up in that, I will leave it in there until the thaw. With luck, these will actually start to arrive in December, as projected. I am an optimist. Looking forward to at least seeing one in the flesh before mine arrives. Mine is the first to be sold in this area.

[bjt]

You can say that again. Make that times ten when you expect the RTS you ordered to come in the midst of a Michigan winter! By the warmth of April I'll be a basket case. :D


I remember that they said my PE might arrive in November/December--- and while I was excited about it---- there wasn't a darn thing I could really do with it at that point. Got mine in late March and ended up trailering it hope---- as I'm not crazy like some folks who ride theirs home with snow still on the ground-----:joke:

Let me know if you need to borrow my trailer to go pick it up--- I've got a HUGE Big-Tex trailer --- could probably hold 2 RT's--- and can for sure hold 50 sheep (don't ask).

Hopefully you can get on a demo before winter ends---

Come on guys... Last winter we had decent riding weather every month except for January. Even then, we managed to find a day that was not too bad to squeeze in a few miles on a very cold but clear January day. :thumbup:

[bjt]

this site has a trike similar to the Spyder but it gets MAJOR mpg's because it runs on vapors instead of liquid fuel!

Reverse Trike Motorcycle Club (http://reversetrike.com/ale.html)

its not in production! but it sure is cool to look at and also defys some the ideas that more power means paying more at the pump!
its just something to check out! enjoy Spyderlovers!

I wonder what the cost of that would be. I'd get one but I would guess the pricetag would be too high for all but the affluent.

[NancysToy]

Come on guys... Last winter we had decent riding weather every month except for January. Even then, we managed to find a day that was not too bad to squeeze in a few miles on a very cold but clear January day. :thumbup:
I have ridden every month of the year a few times. Unfortunately, when my stone driveway freezes over, I'm usually iced in for the duration. From late December or early January until March or April, I'm out of luck most years.

[bjt]

Where there's a will, there's a way... :D