Front end vibration

[MONK]

Hey, all.

I recently developed a front end vibration, worse around 55-70mph but present at all speeds. I have almost brand new Q5s on the front. I noticed that lost one (or more) of the right wheel weights so I removed the rest of them and added 2oz of tire beads. Didn't make any difference, bad or good. As I was riding today, I looked at the inside of the right tire while moving. Seems to me that the tire "wobbles" although I don't think it's the wheel as everything's tight (lug nuts, etc). I'm thinking I busted a tire belt (not sure if I have the right term) as this is a new issue. The "wobble" is best described as seeing the inside of the tire move in and out a little bit. The left tire doesn't do this. (I wasn't brave enough to hold my phone to take a video as I was riding.)

I don't recall hitting a large pothole recently but I suppose it could have happened. Since the Q5s are no longer available, I'll need to buy a pair of new tires before I sell the bike. Sort of looking for confirmation that I need a new tire. :)

Thanks.

[K80Shooter]

Make sure that you haven't warped a wheel. Jack the front end up and place a bottle on the floor just as close to the tire as possible without touching then rotate the tire/wheel by hand. Observe both the tire and wheel to see which one wobbles. If it is indeed the tire contact whoever sold you the tires and see what they have to say.

[MONK]

I'll try that but I KNOW I haven't hit any potholes big enough to warp/bend a wheel. This is a new issue and I've only ridden it a couple of times since everything was fine. I bought the tires (Q5s) online so if the tire is bad, I'll need to buy another pair of tires since nobody carries the Q5s any more. When I look down at the inside of the wheel/tire while riding, the wheels doesn't seem to move/wobble, just the tire. If I get a chance after work one day this week (when it's not raining), I'll do as you suggested. Thanks, sir.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Check for a pebble in the drive belt or one of the pulleys. I had one one time that I swore was a front wheel vibration until I just happened to see the pebble. Took it out and all was quiet!

[Wmoater]

Monk just something to check. I doubt it’s this but I had this happen with a friends 2020 spyder. Put feet on both floorboards and stand straight up. Rock the spyder left and right like and aggressive lean. Easy to explain if you ride a snowmobile. Rock it good back and forth. Do you hear I click coming from the Baja Ron swaybar area. I’m sure you would have checked already but the lower bolt and nut (Ron supplied to replace Oem) needed a touch more tightening on my friends. He was getting a bit of a floating wobble. Ron had I think 24 ft/lbs can’t remember exactly now but we had to tighten it a tiny bit more. Just thinking outside the box.

[Wmoater]

Not sure when and what size but I remember a spyderlovers member only having one Q5 for sale since they couldn’t get a second one. I remember it back in June I think.


Sorry looks like it was sold or refunded?

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?141762-Vredestein-Quatrac-5-165-60-R15-77H-Tire-for-sale

[Peter Aawen]

Hey, all.

I recently developed a front end vibration, worse around 55-70mph but present at all speeds. I have almost brand new Q5s on the front. I noticed that lost one (or more) of the right wheel weights so I removed the rest of them and added 2oz of tire beads. Didn't make any difference, bad or good. As I was riding today, I looked at the inside of the right tire while moving. Seems to me that the tire "wobbles" although I don't think it's the wheel as everything's tight (lug nuts, etc). I'm thinking I busted a tire belt (not sure if I have the right term) as this is a new issue. The "wobble" is best described as seeing the inside of the tire move in and out a little bit. The left tire doesn't do this. (I wasn't brave enough to hold my phone to take a video as I was riding.)

I don't recall hitting a large pothole recently but I suppose it could have happened. Since the Q5s are no longer available, I'll need to buy a pair of new tires before I sell the bike. Sort of looking for confirmation that I need a new tire. :)

Thanks.

Sure, it could be a busted belt inside the tire, but on a quality tire like the Vredesteins, you'd usually know if/when/what you hit hard enough to cause this sort of damage! :rolleyes: . And while those balance beads can work quite well if there's only a little imbalance involved, if there's any more than just 'a little bit' of imbalance involved, the beads often won't really do much at all!! :lecturef_smilie: . How much in the way of weights were on the wheel before you took them all off?? :dontknow:

Going by the second bolded bit, it could just be a sign of a tire fitted improperly on the rim; something that simply requires deflating the tire before re-inflating it to about 40 psi rapidly (preferably with a short sharp burst of hp air! ;) ) in order to re-seat the bead properly & evenly all the way around the circumference of the rim, then dropping the pressure back down to your preferred operating pressure. But that probably won't apply if you've been running the tires for a fair while, it's more commonly found on newly fitted tires - altho it's still not necessarily impossible on a tire that's been there for a while! :shocked: OR... it could be that you've turned hard enough and/or hit a bump at exactly the right spot to have partially popped the inner bead in one or more sectors of the bead circumference - so I'd suggest that either you or a nearby tire shop tech actually take the wheel off and carefully inspect the beads on both sides to make sure that both inner & outer beads are properly and evenly seated all around the rim before chasing a new tire! :thumbup:

In fact, bearing that in mind, why don't you just run your Spyder in to your nearest worthwhile tire shop & ask them to check out BOTH front tires?? If they happen to be a tire shop that can or even be the tire shop that did fit & balance those tires (or any other car tires) on your Spyder, then so much the better! It shouldn't take a competent tire tech any more'n about 10 mins to work out what your problem is; and then, if it is actually tire related, maybe as much as another 10 mins or so to either fix it for you or clearly identify the need for a replacement tire or two! :ohyea: And they should also be able to at least identify if it's more likely to be a dodgy or damaged suspension component too - have you checked for loose ball joints or flogged out A arm bushes! :dontknow:

Anyhow, I wouldn't necessarily assume it's the worst case scenario up front, especially if you can't recall recently hitting anything hard enough to jar a few fillings loose or cornering so hard that you needed to change your under-daks immediately afterwards!! :helpsmilie: . It's certainly not impossible for it to be a broken/damaged ply layer or belt or anything else in the construction of the tire, but it is sorta unlikely with a quality tire like the Vredesteins! ;) So it'll probably pay to make sure it's not one of the lesser &/or easy things first! :2thumbs:

Good Luck! :cheers:

[MONK]

Check for a pebble in the drive belt or one of the pulleys. I had one one time that I swore was a front wheel vibration until I just happened to see the pebble. Took it out and all was quiet!


Monk just something to check. I doubt it’s this but I had this happen with a friends 2020 spyder. Put feet on both floorboards and stand straight up. Rock the spyder left and right like and aggressive lean. Easy to explain if you ride a snowmobile. Rock it good back and forth. Do you hear I click coming from the Baja Ron swaybar area. I’m sure you would have checked already but the lower bolt and nut (Ron supplied to replace Oem) needed a touch more tightening on my friends. He was getting a bit of a floating wobble. Ron had I think 24 ft/lbs can’t remember exactly now but we had to tighten it a tiny bit more. Just thinking outside the box.


Sure, it could be a busted belt inside the tire, but on a quality tire like the Vredesteins, you'd usually know if/when/what you hit hard enough to cause this sort of damage! :rolleyes: . And while those balance beads can work quite well if there's only a little imbalance involved, if there's any more than just 'a little bit' of imbalance involved, the beads often won't really do much at all!! :lecturef_smilie: . How much in the way of weights were on the wheel before you took them all off?? :dontknow:

Going by the second bolded bit, it could just be a sign of a tire fitted improperly on the rim; something that simply requires deflating the tire before re-inflating it to about 40 psi rapidly (preferably with a short sharp burst of hp air! ;) ) in order to re-seat the bead properly & evenly all the way around the circumference of the rim, then dropping the pressure back down to your preferred operating pressure. But that probably won't apply if you've been running the tires for a fair while, it's more commonly found on newly fitted tires - altho it's still not necessarily impossible on a tire that's been there for a while! :shocked: OR... it could be that you've turned hard enough and/or hit a bump at exactly the right spot to have partially popped the inner bead in one or more sectors of the bead circumference - so I'd suggest that either you or a nearby tire shop tech actually take the wheel off and carefully inspect the beads on both sides to make sure that both inner & outer beads are properly and evenly seated all around the rim before chasing a new tire! :thumbup:

In fact, bearing that in mind, why don't you just run your Spyder in to your nearest worthwhile tire shop & ask them to check out BOTH front tires?? If they happen to be a tire shop that can or even be the tire shop that did fit & balance those tires (or any other car tires) on your Spyder, then so much the better! It shouldn't take a competent tire tech any more'n about 10 mins to work out what your problem is; and then, if it is actually tire related, maybe as much as another 10 mins or so to either fix it for you or clearly identify the need for a replacement tire or two! :ohyea: And they should also be able to at least identify if it's more likely to be a dodgy or damaged suspension component too - have you checked for loose ball joints or flogged out A arm bushes! :dontknow:

Anyhow, I wouldn't necessarily assume it's the worst case scenario up front, especially if you can't recall recently hitting anything hard enough to jar a few fillings loose or cornering so hard that you needed to change your under-daks immediately afterwards!! :helpsmilie: . It's certainly not impossible for it to be a broken/damaged ply layer or belt or anything else in the construction of the tire, but it is sorta unlikely with a quality tire like the Vredesteins! ;) So it'll probably pay to make sure it's not one of the lesser &/or easy things first! :2thumbs:

Good Luck! :cheers:

Idaho---I looked although I may have missed part of the belt. I didn't see a rock although I didn't hear any issues just FELT the vibration.

Wmoater---Nope. No issues (or clicks/sounds) there. When I was under the bike a few months ago installing the frunk liner, I checked the end links then, too.

Peter---I'll have to take it down to the local tire shop so they can see if the bead needs to be reseated.

I just checked the wheel/tire as K80Shooter suggested (both sides and the tread area). I didn't see any wobble so I'm not sure what I'm seeing when I look down at the inside of the tire whilst riding. I even shot a short video of my checks. It's too big to post here and I'll go over it again to make sure I didn't miss something. It's not like it's unridable but it does shake the handlebars a little bit so something isn't quite right. Probably not a big deal but I want it fixed before I sell it (or I'd have to deduct something from the price of the bike which isn't out of the question, I guess).

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I'm not sure what I'm seeing when I look down at the inside of the tire whilst riding.
It might be an optical illusion. Several times I thought I saw a tire wobbling only to finally realize it was a variation of dust or wetness on the side of the tire that made it look like it was wobbling.

[PMK]

Another member here has installed Qtracs and is having issues with them, his name is Inspectsir. Maybe follow his topic to see how he resolves it.

[sledman]

Hey, all.

I recently developed a front end vibration, worse around 55-70mph but present at all speeds. I have almost brand new Q5s on the front. I noticed that lost one (or more) of the right wheel weights so I removed the rest of them and added 2oz of tire beads. Didn't make any difference, bad or good. As I was riding today, I looked at the inside of the right tire while moving. Seems to me that the tire "wobbles" although I don't think it's the wheel as everything's tight (lug nuts, etc). I'm thinking I busted a tire belt (not sure if I have the right term) as this is a new issue. The "wobble" is best described as seeing the inside of the tire move in and out a little bit. The left tire doesn't do this. (I wasn't brave enough to hold my phone to take a video as I was riding.)

I don't recall hitting a large pothole recently but I suppose it could have happened. Since the Q5s are no longer available, I'll need to buy a pair of new tires before I sell the bike. Sort of looking for confirmation that I need a new tire. :)

Thanks.

I put balance beads in my new Q5s when I installed them. The front end slowly developed bad vibration, and I could see the tires shaking at freeway speeds. I had a trusted tire shop remove the beads and balance with weights. Didn't take very much weight, and it's smooth as glass now.

[K80Shooter]

Any update on what the problem was?

[spyderdave]

After reading about your issue and the responses, I would suggest this: since you mentioned feeling this through the handle bars, it's probably related to the front end, rather than drivetrain.

If a front wheel weight was lost, remaining weights removed and something else substituted, I would take a step back from that point. First, jack up each side, rotate and visually inspect the front tires. Look for bumps and/or bulges in the sidewalls and irregularities in the tread pattern; most belt and sidewall damage damage is visible. Rub your hand across the tread surface and feel for delaminations, flat spots, or other tread damage. If all seems well, I would have the fronts spun and rebalanced, and at the risk of sounding like an old troll, make sure the tech understands that close is not good enough; it has to be perfect.

I would also suggest that you check the alignment and for any play in the tie rod ends, any slop there will magnify tire imbalance. I don't know about your area but many roads here in Iowa are in bad shape because DOT plows tear up the right edges of the road surface in the winter; it's pretty hard on tie rod ends. My 2020 RTL, w/ 7,000 miles, all ready has a clunk in the right tie rod end, it's concerning.

Hope this helps.

[MONK]

Any update on what the problem was?

Not yet. I visited my elderly parents last weekend so I couldn't get to the tire shop. I'm hoping to get there this weekend if it's not raining.


After reading about your issue and the responses, I would suggest this: since you mentioned feeling this through the handle bars, it's probably related to the front end, rather than drivetrain.

If a front wheel weight was lost, remaining weights removed and something else substituted, I would take a step back from that point. First, jack up each side, rotate and visually inspect the front tires. Look for bumps and/or bulges in the sidewalls and irregularities in the tread pattern; most belt and sidewall damage damage is visible. Rub your hand across the tread surface and feel for delaminations, flat spots, or other tread damage. If all seems well, I would have the fronts spun and rebalanced, and at the risk of sounding like an old troll, make sure the tech understands that close is not good enough; it has to be perfect.

I would also suggest that you check the alignment and for any play in the tie rod ends, any slop there will magnify tire imbalance. I don't know about your area but many roads here in Iowa are in bad shape because DOT plows tear up the right edges of the road surface in the winter; it's pretty hard on tie rod ends. My 2020 RTL, w/ 7,000 miles, all ready has a clunk in the right tie rod end, it's concerning.

Hope this helps.

One of the wheel weights had come loose so I remove all of them and added some balancing beads. No change. I live in NC so there's no such thing as a snow plow. Good thoughts, though.

[MONK]

Slight update: I had 17.1# in the front tires. I used to run 16# and didn't have any vibrations. This just came to me today (as my brother, Forrest Gump, says, "I'm not a smart man"). I lowered the air pressure to 15.5#. I only got up to 55mph briefly (I was starting to sweat so a short ride) and didn't have any vibrations. I'm hoping to get out early tomorrow (before church and before it warms up) and get on the highway to see if 15#-16# eliminates the vibrations at highway speeds. If so, I'll bring the bike to the shop next week to have the tires un-/re-mounted and balanced correctly (again). I'll probably also get a laser alignment, just to be safe.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Slight update: I had 17.1# in the front tires. I used to run 16# and didn't have any vibrations. This just came to me today (as my brother, Forrest Gump, says, "I'm not a smart man"). I lowered the air pressure to 15.5#. I only got up to 55mph briefly (I was starting to sweat so a short ride) and didn't have any vibrations. I'm hoping to get out early tomorrow (before church and before it warms up) and get on the highway to see if 15#-16# eliminates the vibrations at highway speeds. If so, I'll bring the bike to the shop next week to have the tires un-/re-mounted and balanced correctly (again). I'll probably also get a laser alignment, just to be safe.

This makes no sense to me .... " NORMAL " Tire pressures ie. PSI shouldn't make any difference .... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

[MONK]

Turns out you're spot on, Mike. I ensured all tires were at the proper pressures (16# front/27# rear on the stock Kenda) and took it for a drive. Crazy vibration, especially above about 50mph. Assuming it doesn't rain next Saturday, I'll ride it to the shop (an hour away) hoping they can diagnose the issue. I hope it's not a broken belt because if it is, my only option is to have them replace the brand new Q5s with stock Kendas. I'll have them remount both front tires, lose the dyna beads, add lead weights and do a laser alignment. I figure I'll drop another $400 in all that but it's worth it. I'd hate to sell the bike with any issues.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Turns out you're spot on, Mike. I ensured all tires were at the proper pressures (16# front/27# rear on the stock Kenda) and took it for a drive. Crazy vibration, especially above about 50mph. Assuming it doesn't rain next Saturday, I'll ride it to the shop (an hour away) hoping they can diagnose the issue. I hope it's not a broken belt because if it is, my only option is to have them replace the brand new Q5s with stock Kendas. I'll have them remount both front tires, lose the dyna beads, add lead weights and do a laser alignment. I figure I'll drop another $400 in all that but it's worth it. I'd hate to sell the bike with any issues.

Manufacturing Defects in a tire (ie. the Vredestein's ) is NOT common ....un-like KENDA's .... alignment should not cause SHIMMY, unless it's off the charts BAD, and then it wouldn't even be drivable ... your REAR KENDA is where I suspect your issue is..... good luck, keep us posted .... Mike :thumbup:

[fatboy]

swap the wheels from one side to other see if the problem moves

[Woodaddict]

what kind of balance beads you use?? reports of some brand clumping up sitting, then takes a few miles to get them to come loose?? posts are on here of the brand

[MONK]

Manufacturing Defects in a tire (ie. the Vredestein's ) is NOT common ....un-like KENDA's .... alignment should not cause SHIMMY, unless it's off the charts BAD, and then it wouldn't even be drivable ... your REAR KENDA is where I suspect your issue is..... good luck, keep us posted .... Mike :thumbup:

Not that I doubt you, Mike, but I get a vibration mostly in the handlebars. How would a rear tire issue affect the handlebars?


swap the wheels from one side to other see if the problem moves

Great idea but it's not limited to one side or another. As noted, I feel it the most in the handlebars.


what kind of balance beads you use?? reports of some brand clumping up sitting, then takes a few miles to get them to come loose?? posts are on here of the brand

Counteract, as suggested by a few here. I rode down the highway for a good 10 miles before I turned around and rode back the same 10 miles. (Plus the distance to get to the highway and back.) Not saying that the balancing beads aren't part of the problem but I would think they would have unclumped.

I'll take the bike to the shop next Saturday and let them figure it out.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Not that I doubt you, Mike, but I get a vibration mostly in the handlebars. How would a rear tire issue affect the handlebars?



Great idea but it's not limited to one side or another. As noted, I feel it the most in the handlebars.



Counteract, as suggested by a few here. I rode down the highway for a good 10 miles before I turned around and rode back the same 10 miles. (Plus the distance to get to the highway and back.) Not saying that the balancing beads aren't part of the problem but I would think they would have unclumped.

I'll take the bike to the shop next Saturday and let them figure it out.

Since you seem to believe that everything possible has been done to BALANCE the front tires and has been done correctly .... Then the only thing we are left with ( based on historical data ) is that Kenda tire has internal belt issues. ,.... Mike :thumbup:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Great idea but it's not limited to one side or another. As noted, I feel it the most in the handlebars.
Good question, but I can tell you when I had a pebble stuck in the rear pulley the handlebars vibrated. That's one reason I kept focusing on the front tires until I happened to see the pebble!

[MONK]

Guess it's time to jack up the rear of the bike to see if I can find a pebble, eh?

[T.P.]

HEY MONK, I just had the same issue in July, intense vibration in the mirrors and handle bars till the rock got pushed through the belt and it self centered. then the vibration went away. only found the rock by visual inspection. cost me $600 for new belt and Lamonster roller.
T.P.

[MONK]

I just jacked up the rear of the bike and laid down next to it (not an easy task these days) and slowly spun the rear tire around, first looking for anything caught in the rear sprocket then checking the same on the belt, both tooth side and other. Nothing. I guess the shop will have to figure this out unless I happen to have a rock stuck in the front sprocket (I'm no longer equipped to remove that many body panels).

I appreciate all the help, guys. This is baffling although I'm sure someone who knows these bikes in and out will take about 10 minutes to say, "there's yer problem".

[wingit3611]

Woodaddict in note #20 mentioned Dyno Beads clumping. I had that and it was caused by the MOISTURE from my air compressor air mixing with the dust in side the tire to clump with the Beads. Didn't know they were clumping till I wore the tire out. So I guess they still work. Just wanted to share that.

[Yabbadabbadoo]

I'll echo what Peter said about beads not always being enough. I replaced my tires with the new Quatrac's and put the standard 2 oz front, 3 oz rear Centramatic bead kit you can get on Amazon. I found that my right front wheel was shaking most of the time. Seems like sometimes the beads worked but other times they did not and was inconsistent. I supposed I could have just tried adding more beads but I decided to remove the beads and re-balance with weights. Now it's smooth as silk!
By the way, Marc Parnes sells a nice balance kit specifically for the Spyder. http://www.marcparnes.com/Can-Am_Spyder_Wheel_Balancer.htm

Oh and also, these new Quatrac's are fantastic. Tremendous grip on curves! I also noticed that the Spyder is less squirrel-y on gravel roads than the OEM Kendas.

[MONK]

Just got back from the dealer. They dismounted the tires, removed the beads, remounted the tires and balanced everything. Smooth like it should be. They said another couple ounces of beads probably would have taken care of things but I'd rather the tires be balanced the "right" way.

Thanks for everyone's assistance, posts, etc.

[bikerbillone]

Interesting Monk, makes me wonder about the beads. I'm tempted with the Ride-On product.

[MONK]

Bill---I think I just didn't have enough beads.

[Little Blue]

:coffee: Hey Monk, what year and model is the Spyder.

[bikerbillone]

Gonna miss you around here.

[MONK]

:coffee: Hey Monk, what year and model is the Spyder.

2021 RT


Gonna miss you around here.

You trying to get rid of me, Bill? :) I hadn't planned on going anywhere. I just can't ride much anymore.

[bikerbillone]

Oh golly gee whiz, not at all my friend, just thinking u might lose interest. So will still look for your comments.