Cornering Nightmare - Update

[Circ]

We have a 2018 Spyder RT which is the perfect vehicle for our needs....unless we are in a hurry. During casual driving it performs better than expected and there are so many things about it that we love. During spirited driving, however, I hate it! There is a sensor somewhere that slams the brakes on or cuts fuel out if it determines I am taking a corner too fast. I believe it to be the brakes but can't tell for 100% sure. This happens mostly in town but also happened the other day on the highway at about 65mph around a fairly tight corner. Mind you, this is not hanging off the saddle, trying to get the back end to slide around (which would be impossible given this feature) but merely spirited driving. I am a seasoned motorcycle rider for 50+ years, having owned everything from 100cc dirt bikes to a Moto Guzzi 1000SP to an '82 Harley Sturgis so I have a pretty good feel for motorcycles and their idiosyncrasies. We have adapted to the Spyder, having put over 10,000 mi on it and I describe the steering as more similar to a snowmobile than a motorcycle.

I have been to 2 different dealers and one of the service techs took it for a test ride, was able to duplicate the phenomenon and told me that was normal. I do not believe this to be the case and am looking for more experienced feedback, explanation or better yet, how do I override the sensor. I will close this with a further elucidation as to how violent the bike slows. My wife's helmet usually slams into the back of mine! followed by a few choice words directed at the manufacturer. I LOVE/HATE my Spyder.

[Rednaxs60]

I'll chime in here. Have had my 2014 Spyder RT LE since end March and have some 7000 Kms on it. You're right as to the snowmobile issue.

Researched the forums for information on these. Had several issues with mine that I have been correcting. I felt that the cornering was not as expected and the ride quality lacked as well. My Spyder was supposed to have the BajaRon sway bar, but the feel of the Spyder when cornering did not indicate such. Found that the sway bar was loose in the sway bar bushings, tightened up the sway bar bushings IAW the install instructions and there was an immediate improvement. Still not up to what I wanted so aftermarket shocks. Ordered, received and installed front/rear M2 shocks.

The front shocks come with 250 Lb springs, the rear with a 525 Lb spring. Thinking for your riding profile, you may want to consider a 300/350 lb front shock spring - minimize preload. The preload for my install and riding profile is 2.2 cm. M2 recommends a max of 1 cm. Have Hagon shocks on my '85 Goldwing Limited edition and the preload adjustment from no preload to full is only 1 cm.

Had M2 send a second rear spring, 700 Lb (600 Lb spring rate would probably be good) - no more bottoming when riding two up, installed it on the rear shock and installed. Immediate improvement in the Spyder ride quality and performance. Had to reset the ACC calibration.

Having mentioned the above, you are probably overdriving the Spyder system(s), mechanical as well. You probably notice that the front suspension in a corner is fully compressed as is the shock, and that the shock does not recover until you come out of the corner. Shocks may be good, but the spring is too soft for your riding profile.

BajaRon has an aftermarket front shock preload adjuster that can be installed, but you still have too soft a spring from what you describe. A new spring with at least a 250 Lb rating along with BajaRon's preload adjuster may work for you. If you keep the OEM front shocks, I would think that changing the spring to a stiffer rate would be beneficial in meeting your riding profile. You won't have any additional adjustments such as rebound damping, but you may find that you don't need it.

From your two wheel experience, you probably know that if you upgrade the front suspension, you will probably be doing the rear. h0grider did a good thread on upgrading the rear shock without going aftermarket. This is a good read: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?126595-RT-Limited-OEM-Rear-Shock-Making-it-Adjustable&highlight=suspension+upgrade I found with the new rear shock that I had to calibrate the ACC system - mine is the remote automatic system. Need the B.U.D.S. software to do so.

In discussion with M2 shocks regarding a front spring upgrade for my application.

My thread regarding what I have done to my Spyder is: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?139335-Initial-Maintenance-and-Work I'm using this thread as sort of a journal and documenting what I have done and found.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

[EdMat]

Welcome to the wonderful world of living with the nanny, as she is sometimes (*&%(&^% called. I will probably get shot down for saying this but you might try disconnecting the seat switch under the passenger because it is my understanding that when it senses weight the nanny will kick in earlier.


And :welcome:

[trikermutha]

Unless your driving like a crazy person then that don't sound right. I drive mine at times pretty quick and never had it do what you described. They need to recalibrate something and need BUDS to determine it.
Does it on happen when you are two up riding?

[Spiderfrog]

Solo riding 2021 RTL I can take 90 degree ish turns up to about 30mph have hit 35mph in a little more of a degree turn with no intervention (dampening) from the Nanny haven't tried aggressive driving with a passenger yet any way.

[Circ]

trikermutha, thanks for your reply. While I HAVE been called crazy (on more than one occasion) I am definitely not driving like a 'crazy person' the bike won't let me get anywhere near that level of aggressive riding.
it happens whether I am riding alone or 2 up. More info: I weigh 150 lbs and my beautiful assistant weighs 110... "115 on a bad day" she says. Please forgive my ignorance but what is BUDS?

[JayBros]

If you have not read your operator's guide begin this time at pg 51 and read through pg. 55. Yes, you have lots of motorcycle experience and for that reason there are some things you have to unlearn because the Spyder does not behave like a two wheeler. That said, to take curves on the roadster you should lean into the turn, forward and over the inside bar, and plant your outside foot hard on the floorboard. If you are riding two up instruct your pillion to follow your body movements, just as she should if you were riding a tandem bicycle. IMO, if one is riding at 65 and sets off the Vehicle Stability System in a tight curve one is riding over one's head for one's level of experience with the Spyder.

[Circ]

Thanks EdMat, I did try to research this phenomenon on the forum before I posted this and discovered the Nanny but no one seems to have any where near this degree of Nanny intervention. The dealer told me there was no way to disable it. Your suggestion might help when we are 2 up but it also happens when I'm solo.

[Circ]

Thank you for your reply JayBros. Because the Spyder is a different vehicle I DID read the owners manual in its entirety before extensive riding. I re-read the pages you suggested to see if I missed anything. I have been applying the techniques you (and the manual) recommend ever since my first ride. I agree with you that riding a Spyder in a 'tight' curve at 65mph could be very dangerous. Which is why I used the term 'fairly tight' to define the curve. I do NOT in any way feel I was riding any where near over my head (my passenger concurs). I was merely attempting to illustrate that the VSS or nanny comes on at all speeds and it is my strong belief there is no way it should have come on during that turn. I have found that prior to entering a turn, I drop my inside elbow and begin to push on the outside bar (much like a snowmobile). This motion sets up the body position you described.

[RICZ]

I saw MTV's (Martin The Vlogger) under the passenger seat switch cancel outer and made my own using an appropriate size plastic bottle cap. I placed it under the stock "button" so it won't depress. That switch numbs the performance and heightens the nanny's sensors when there's a passenger on board. The trouble is, if you place a heavy case on the passenger seat, it does the same thing.

[Rednaxs60]

trikermutha, thanks for your reply. While I HAVE been called crazy (on more than one occasion) I am definitely not driving like a 'crazy person' the bike won't let me get anywhere near that level of aggressive riding.
it happens whether I am riding alone or 2 up. More info: I weigh 150 lbs and my beautiful assistant weighs 110... "115 on a bad day" she says. Please forgive my ignorance but what is BUDS?

B.U.D.S. software is what you need to use to do a bit of maintenance on your Spyder, check calibrations and the like. You can check it out at this site: https://www.powersports-diag.com/en/brp-diagnostic-kits/1-brp-buds-buds2-mpi-3-diagnostic-kit-4-tec-e-tec.html I have this software and consider it essential if you are a DIY work/maintenance person, as are the service manuals.

[ARtraveler]

:welcome: Living with "nanny" is a part of Spyder ownership. That said, you have to be going pretty hard and fast for "nanny" to kick in. I have had "nanny" kick in four times in my eleven year ownership of Spyders. Twice gaining control over "hydroplaning" incidents, and twice while doing spirited riding on twisties here in Arkansas.

"Nanny" senses the bike losing its grip, and that is when it kicks in. My usual rule, if I enter a curve and have to use the brakes to be safe, I am going to fast. I like to be able to accelerate during the turn. I can easily exceed 20 mph above posted, but am more comfortable with 10 - 15.

Have not heard of a "nanny" being overly intrusive. But, that is not saying you may have an issue on your Spyder.

[JayBros]

...I was merely attempting to illustrate that the VSS or nanny comes on at all speeds and it is my strong belief there is no way it should have come on during that turn...

The turn is a good example of the involvement of the yaw sensor in the VSS; unfortunately BRP does not publish, at least not to us poor guinea pigs, all the factors and parameters that activate and how they control the VSS. I will tell you that in a curve situation similar but at slower speed than yours an oncoming car partly in my lane forced me to quickly and drastically change my line in the curve, had to severely tighten it, and the VSS not only killed the throttle but also applied the left front brake so hard it smoked the tire. Fortunately the oncoming driver got out of my lane and Nanny kept me out of a ditch so I'm here to relate the incident.

[RayBJ]

I ride hard and the nanny was really messing up my cornering frequently UNTIL I replaced the OEM tires with Q5s and the added traction reduced the nanny to an occasional intervention. Swapping the shocks & sway bar added to the muting of her.

[Longtimer]

Find someone in your area that has a spyder let them ride it and see what they think or go to a dealer and test ride one on the same road and see if it does it and also check your tire pressure to make sure you are not over or under inflated and what's contion of you tires tread wise

[Circ]

Rednaxs60 Thank you very much for your input and for the links. I will look into purchasing the BUDS, it sounds very helpful. Also appreciate your ideas of upgrading suspension. I notice one front shock is compressing or compressed when the VSS decides it needs to protect me from myself. Since neither my wife nor I weigh a lot (well under 300 between the 2 of us) I had not considered a fairly new vehicle to need new shocks.

[Circ]

Thanks RayBJ, I intend to put a swaybar on but I wanted to get to know the bike first. Plus my CFO has not given authorization for that upgrade yet. No offense but I am sooo glad I am not the lone ranger (rider?) here. I was beginning to think I got an anomaly. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience. I look forward to trying your suggestions.

[Rednaxs60]

Rednaxs60 Thank you very much for your input and for the links. I will look into purchasing the BUDS, it sounds very helpful. Also appreciate your ideas of upgrading suspension. I notice one front shock is compressing or compressed when the VSS decides it needs to protect me from myself. Since neither my wife nor I weigh a lot (well under 300 between the 2 of us) I had not considered a fairly new vehicle to need new shocks.

Most welcome. The B.U.D.S. software may be able to identify some issues not considered such as the calibration of the ACC system - rear air system, may need to be calibrated, mine did.

You wouldn't think a fairly new vehicle would need upgraded shocks. My 2014 had 9100 Kms on it four months ago, now has over 16K Kms. Shocks were probably still good, but for my riding profile and when riding two up, the OEM shocks were not up to the task. I'm never sporty when riding two up, but when solo riding I do like to push myself a bit. I noticed early on with my Spyder that even at posted speed limits in corners/curves such as on a cloverleaf off/on ramp, and riding solo, the front suspension was completely compressed - BajaRon's sway bar installed, not good. I would have to slow to bellow the posted speed limit to make a difference in the lean/roll of the Spyder. Made up my mind to correct this soonest, new shocks ordered. Have since installed new tires, but do not attribute the old tires to this issue.

The issue I have with suspension is that it is primarily there to support the weight of the vehicle, in this case the Spyder. The spring supports the Spyder weight and additional load, the shock controls the oscillation of the spring. These RTs have a high centre of gravity and with this comes more lean/roll in corners and curves.

If you can see the front suspension compressed, the amount of force on the front end is overpowering the front shocks and springs. I installed M2 shocks and have been watching closely to determine how much compression the front end is doing, but have yet to see a discernable amount. My Spyder does lean/roll, but the amount of lean/roll is greatly reduced compared to the OEM shocks, and the lean/roll is being absorbed by the shock spring. Have to compress the shock spring on the M2 shocks considerably to replicate how the OEM shock performs. I would expect the design of the shock contributes to this as well in that it controls spring oscillation very well. I would think a good aftermarket shock such as Elkas, Wilbers and the likes will do the same, I just happen to have settled on M2 shocks.

If you have the ACS automatic rear load leveling system, this affects the front end as well. The rear shock is not adjustable, and is designed to provide a "Cadillac" ride. Soft, plush, and such, the same with the front suspension. The air pressure in the air shock is used to maintain a ride height, but in doing so, makes the rear of the Spyder firmer and with this less weight transfer aft when riding. Going into a corner/curve at speed, and you haven't shed enough speed before entering the turn puts more downward force on the front of your Spyder. This force is in addition to the weight of the Spyder and the additional weight of the rider(s), and the front suspension has to work against this additional force so it is easy to overpower the front suspension. Have a look at the bumper stop on the front shock(s) after a good, spirited ride and you will probably find the bumper hard up against the top of the shock spindle.

BRP has to design, produce and market a product that suits a wide variety of purchasers, so a more spirited rider such as yourself regardless of personal weight is an anomaly to its marketing. This is why I mentioned the thread from h0grider in a previous post for the rear shock, and a low cost front suspension improvement.

Into the suspension aspect at this time because I am setting up my Spyder with the new M2 shocks. Once it is done, I'll move onto the next issue.

Good luck.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The yaw sensor is a key input into Nanny, so you will want make changes mentioned above to keep your Spyder more level in corners. Consider changing to the F3 in the future. It is designed for more aggressive riding than the RT. I've had Nanny hold back on the throttle quite often when I'm first in line at a traffic light and make a spirited left turn when the light changes!

My thought is you are a more aggressive rider than you realize.

[WilcoJunoHotel]

Agree with what others have posted that something doesn't sound quite right with your Spyder. I frequently get the brief slight "retard throttle" moment but I have only had it apply the brakes 1 time in 5000 miles of hard riding and that was up on the Dragon on one of those tight, hard, off-camber turns. I guess I didn't brake enough and about mid-turn I felt the brakes applied hard enough to slow me down about 5mph AND it wasn't just a momentary thing - It lasted a full 2-3 seconds.

[pidjones]

I ride less "spirited" than you, maybe. And I do have a '21 RTL with lowered COG and perhaps improved suspension. Only have a couple thousand on it so far, but the road we live off of has much tighter turns that the Dragon and I've yet to feel Nanny kick in.

[BajaRon]

We have a 2018 Spyder RT which is the perfect vehicle for our needs....unless we are in a hurry. During casual driving it performs better than expected and there are so many things about it that we love. During spirited driving, however, I hate it! There is a sensor somewhere that slams the brakes on or cuts fuel out if it determines I am taking a corner too fast. I believe it to be the brakes but can't tell for 100% sure. This happens mostly in town but also happened the other day on the highway at about 65mph around a fairly tight corner. Mind you, this is not hanging off the saddle, trying to get the back end to slide around (which would be impossible given this feature) but merely spirited driving. I am a seasoned motorcycle rider for 50+ years, having owned everything from 100cc dirt bikes to a Moto Guzzi 1000SP to an '82 Harley Sturgis so I have a pretty good feel for motorcycles and their idiosyncrasies. We have adapted to the Spyder, having put over 10,000 mi on it and I describe the steering as more similar to a snowmobile than a motorcycle.

I have been to 2 different dealers and one of the service techs took it for a test ride, was able to duplicate the phenomenon and told me that was normal. I do not believe this to be the case and am looking for more experienced feedback, explanation or better yet, how do I override the sensor. I will close this with a further elucidation as to how violent the bike slows. My wife's helmet usually slams into the back of mine! followed by a few choice words directed at the manufacturer. I LOVE/HATE my Spyder.

There are a number of things that enter into this equation. The first is riding style. You may already know this and are already taking these steps. But it's worth revisiting.

There is a saying that 'Smooth is Fast'. Sudden or jerky movements into a turn can really upset the Nanny and cause her to react in the ways that you describe. Working on braking before the turn, entering wide, turning to the apex and accelerating out can go a long way towards reducing or eliminating the Nanny's interference. To a point. Because 'Smooth is Fast' will eventually run up against the suspension deficiencies built into the Spyder which, in my opinion, severely limit the excellent handling that the Spyder is capable of. Various models and years have varying amounts of this problem. Some being much worse than others.

At the very front of the line is that the stock sway bar is too weak, and there is no Pre-Load adjustment on the front shocks. Upgrading the sway bar will make a big difference to handling, stability, and toning down the Nanny. She never goes away, (which is a good thing, because she is needed) but these suspension improvements will go a long way towards managing her.

The sway bar does things that the shocks cannot do. And the shocks do things that the sway bar cannot do. Depending on how you approach these 2 components, trying to compensate for one with the other can give an unnecessarily harsh ride at the benign end. And a dangerous ride at the other end. The sway bar and shocks will, ideally, work in harmony to give you both awesome, confidence inspiring handling, and a great ride.

Many people stop with the sway bar, or upgraded shocks. But if whichever path you decide to take does not quite get you to WHERE you want to go. Upgrading the component you didn't address is usually the next step to take. The sky is pretty much the limit for what you can spend in this pursuit. But you can achieve probably 90% of the machines potential without braking the bank. And frankly, 90% is probably more than most will ever use.

[Rednaxs60]

Agree with BajaRon. Suspension is a package deal. There will be a difference with each change, but only for what the component is designed for. I mentioned having to secure the sway bar bushings on my Spyder, these were loose. Made a difference but still could not fully compensate for the excessive lean/roll. Add new shocks, now we're getting somewhere.

BajaRon's sway bar and BajaRon's front shock preload adjusters, with new front shock springs will make a huge difference. May also wan to read this thread by spacetiger: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?60792-2012-RT-S-SE5-Front-Suspension Check out the spring collection on eBay.

Some innovative ideas out there.

Cheers

[KX5062]

I also agree with all that's been written and would second the motion that the stock Kenda tires are not up to the task either. The difference in handling between the OEM Kenda's and top notch automotive tire is both subtle and dramatic at the same time.

[ThreeWheels]

This thread is getting a bit too long to read all the comments, so I'm probably repeating what's been said.
The Spyder has a VSS (Vehicle Stability System) otherwise known as "The Nanny" (with apologies to Fran Drescher).
Basically, it doesn't let you do any maneuvers that could cause a roll over.
The first time mine kicked in while making an accelerating left turn at an intersection during traffic, well, it caused a skidmark in my shorts because I thought I wouldn't get out of the way of an incoming car.
The point is, the nanny will kick in and slow the bike down in certain situations to save your ass.
I see two possibilities:
If the nanny is faulty in some fashion, it might kick in prematurely,
There are a myriad of sensors that go into the nanny, including wheel speed, handlebar angle, engine speed, and who knows what else. I think the color of the Spyder is also a factor. We all know the Anthracite Gray is the fastest color.
Have the dealer check out all the sensors and the sensor connection to make sure the VSS system is running properly and that you have the latest updates.
If the nanny is functioning properly, then you're overdriving the nanny, probably driving on the verge of unsafe, and need to tone it down a bit.
The RT is, essentially a touring machine.
Perhaps you'd be happier with an F3 or Ryker, something that's more sporty ?

As always, my free advice comes with a double your money back guarantee,

[Circ]

Thank you to all who responded, especially those who gave constructive, positive feedback regarding the nanny and NOT my riding style. I have taken the first step and replaced the sway bar with a Baja Ron. It is a huge improvement and based on many of your suggestions, I will either be installing pre-load adjusters, stiffer springs or new shocks. My extensive motorhead experience has taught me to only do 1 upgrade at a time and put some seat time in before attempting another upgrade. That is why I have 12k mi on the machine before any changes were made. The Nanny is slightly muted with the new sway bar but I can still kick it in by tightening the radius on 'almost any' corner. If the corner is off camber, the nanny comes on with very little rider input. That fact alone tells me something is not right.

[Woodaddict]

just one aspect of nanny is all 3 wheels are metered, for anti lock brakes, if one slightly lifts, that shows slower rotation of 1 of 3 wheels and nanny kicks in

[SpyderGoldwingOwner]

I ride both a 2018 Goldwing DCT and a 2020 Spyder RT. Here is what has helped me enjoy the Spyder more. Please try it!

I added the Baja Ron Sway/Link bars
Get a laser alignment

Try this for a day on cornering the Spyder.

1-If cornering left-push the bars with your right hand-relax your left hand-don't pull on the bars. It's along for the ride
2-Do the opposite when turning right
3-Look thru the turns-any slow down do before the turns with down shifting
4-accelerate thru all turns and lean in to the turn
5-practice

The above works for me. Good luck

[Joel The Biker]

Go to the dealer or find someone with BUDS near you and reset your YAW RATE SENSOR. It requires the spyder to be parked on a level surface with someone sitting on the seat during the reset. This should solve your problem and make it less sensitive.

[Circ]

Thank you Joel, that sounds like exactly what I need to do. I did take it to one dealer and as I stated previously, they told me it was normal and nothing could be adjusted. I will be back in Las Vegas (where I purchased) in a few weeks and intend to pursue that path. This just can't be right. I am not throwing the bike into corners like a madman, nor am I lifting either of the front inside wheels off the ground but since the springs are soft, I am creating a yaw factor. I do believe the laser alignment could be (as some have suggested) beneficial but I did not want to do that until I put new rubber on the front (shortly). Can't wrap my head around the alignment affecting the yaw but I suppose anything is possible.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Can't wrap my head around the alignment affecting the yaw but I suppose anything is possible.
I would say it doesn't except as a secondary effect. Misalignment can lead to understeer and oversteer, which may be some of what you are experiencing. The extra lean caused by sudden changes in the turn caused by under and over steer can be reflected in the yaw sensor.

[PMK]

Thank you Joel, that sounds like exactly what I need to do. I did take it to one dealer and as I stated previously, they told me it was normal and nothing could be adjusted. I will be back in Las Vegas (where I purchased) in a few weeks and intend to pursue that path. This just can't be right. I am not throwing the bike into corners like a madman, nor am I lifting either of the front inside wheels off the ground but since the springs are soft, I am creating a yaw factor. I do believe the laser alignment could be (as some have suggested) beneficial but I did not want to do that until I put new rubber on the front (shortly). Can't wrap my head around the alignment affecting the yaw but I suppose anything is possible.

Joel has an excellent recommendation. To clarify a bit further, his suggestion, you must realize and understand that the handlebars pointed straight and the wheels properly aligned is strictly a mechanical function and setting. Now to complicate this, the Spyder has two sensors, one is the steering angle sensor, the other is the yaw sensor.

The steering angle sensor is essentially attached to the handlebars. With the bars straight, it is nulled or zeroed. Turn the bars and it tells the computer. If not nulled, the sensor could tell the computer the bars are turned, when actually they are straight. So mechanically all could be correct, but electronically there could be an error.

The yaw sensor, like the steering angle sensor converts a mechanical input to electronic input. As Joel mentioned, the Yaw sensor must be nulled under certain conditions. The entire vehicle is the mechanical input for yaw. If Yaw is not nulled, it tells the computer there is a sideways input such as sliding, or other input parameter. Again, if not nulled, mechanically the Spyder could be rolling straight ahead, but the computer is being told otherwise.

Correctly done by an experienced person that knows how to correctly align a Spyder, they should null both sensors. Unfortunately, not all dealers understand or are able to accomplish a correct alignment on a Spyder. Additionally, if you were to take your Spyder to the dealer, ask them to reset the two sensors, most likely they will not do it based on your words. The dealer tech will insist on accomplishing a multitude of stuff, that may ultimately get done this simple 5 minute task. All the best with getting it resolved.

[Circ]

THANK YOU PMK! That is the most in depth and logical explanation I have received so far. I have been reluctant to take it in to a dealer...again...due to what they told me the first time. Sounds like I need to keep trying to find a dealer with a bit more knowledge, experience and credibility. NOW... anyone have any ideas on where I might find such a dealer. We travel and the Spyder goes piggyback between the Volvo 730 and our fifth wheel which means I am not locked into a particular location. Areas I frequent are: Vegas (as mentioned), Phoenix, Denver and Rapid City. Note: The Spyder looks kinda cool on the back of the truck, I will try to figure out how to add that to my profile page.

[pegasus1300]

Give Young Power Sports in Bountiful Ut (Salt Lake) a call.They have done well for me. Also Moto United in Draper Ut.

[PMK]

THANK YOU PMK! That is the most in depth and logical explanation I have received so far. I have been reluctant to take it in to a dealer...again...due to what they told me the first time. Sounds like I need to keep trying to find a dealer with a bit more knowledge, experience and credibility. NOW... anyone have any ideas on where I might find such a dealer. We travel and the Spyder goes piggyback between the Volvo 730 and our fifth wheel which means I am not locked into a particular location. Areas I frequent are: Vegas (as mentioned), Phoenix, Denver and Rapid City. Note: The Spyder looks kinda cool on the back of the truck, I will try to figure out how to add that to my profile page.

I should add also, ideally, resetting the sensors will end the concerns. I suggest though that it takes only a moment to have the tech note onto paper, the current settings prior to resetting.

Honestly, since you roam about, seriously consider getting in touch with Squared Away. Have them check the sensors prior to any other changes. They then could accomplish the reset, or better still, have them correctly align the Spyder, then accomplish the reset. They could even accomplish a sway bar upgrade or other work you deem viable.

I did notice you had mentioned holding off on alignment until new tires or something similar. Just be aware, the Spyders primitive steering design only allows adjustment for wheel toe setting. There is no caster or camber adjustments to be made. Therefore, I believe it could be a benefit to have all the work done, even if replacement tires are installed at a later date. There will be no need for another alignment, unless you have tapped a front wheel hard enough to bend something.

[PMK]

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?62103-New-SpyderLovers-Sponsor-Squared-Away-Alignment

Speak with Ann and Joe, explain to Joe what is going on. He has done many alignments and is not a dealer, so he should be able to work with you away from a flat rate pay scale. Unless you went to a dealer tech such ad Shawn Smoake, as I mentioned, the service writer will note your concern. The tech will likely blow off anything you have explained, and then start troubleshooting on his own, hopefully to maybe resolve the issue. Again, all the best with it, but seriously, give Joe a call. Even ask him to read these posts and call you back.

[canamjhb]

This has been an interesting thread to follow. A lot of good advice, especially in the last 2 days. I would trust Joe and Ann (Squared Away) more than most dealers. And, as luck would have it, they are based in Vegas. I know they have been traveling the country for BRP doing dealer demo rides. If they are unavailable, I'm sure they can steer you to the right place to have your issues addressed. Good luck..... Jim

[RayBJ]

Re: Alignment after tire swap.
My RT was aligned with the Kenda tires. I swapped to car tires soon after and put ~3000 miles on the RT before I had it re-checked and the RT was still spot on.

[Steve W.]

Touching back a bit on the suspension. You mentioned extensive experience and changing just one thing at a time. Great concept.

In the 2-wheeler world, I am amused by the riders that install thicker fork oil to prevent diving while braking. It takes quite a bit to convince them that it's the SPRINGS that control how MUCH it dives, the thicker oil only slows how QUICKLY it dives.

Carry that concept to the Spyder "shocks". Remember that the "shocks" are actually two components. The SPRINGS will control how MUCH the suspension moves, the DAMPERS will control how QUICKLY it moves.

Except for the Q5 tires and a Baja Ron (anti-)sway bar, the suspension on my wife's Spyder is all stock. Works great for the way we ride, we have never experienced Nanny. In fact, I had the Spyder in a parking lot a week or so ago, and was able to lift a wheel in a tight turn without Nanny noticing. Not sure that is proper, but we don't ride that hard, anyway.

.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Touching back a bit on the suspension. You mentioned extensive experience and changing just one thing at a time. Great concept.

In the 2-wheeler world, I am amused by the riders that install thicker fork oil to prevent diving while braking. It takes quite a bit to convince them that it's the SPRINGS that control how MUCH it dives, the thicker oil only slows how QUICKLY it dives.

Carry that concept to the Spyder "shocks". Remember that the "shocks" are actually two components. The SPRINGS will control how MUCH the suspension moves, the DAMPERS will control how QUICKLY it moves.

Except for the Q5 tires and a Baja Ron (anti-)sway bar, the suspension on my wife's Spyder is all stock. Works great for the way we ride, we have never experienced Nanny. In fact, I had the Spyder in a parking lot a week or so ago, and was able to lift a wheel in a tight turn without Nanny noticing. Not sure that is proper, but we don't ride that hard, anyway.

.

Lifted a front wheel and NANNY didn't notice !!!!. .... either something is wrong with your NANNY or in all the excitement you didn't see the ICON flash on the dash screen ( which is very easy to do in daylight ) . I trigger Nanny all the time when I'm at 9/10 ths. in the twistie's ... Sometimes I'll see it, but most times I won't, because I tend NOT to stare at my dashboard, when I'm at 9/10 ths. ..... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

[canamjhb]

A different point of view..... Previously it was suggested to push with the outboard arm and relax the inboard arm in turns. This is not the first time I have read about that technique. In fact, I tried riding that way for quite a while. Then I read somewhere that I should do just the opposite. Pull on the inboard and let the outboard relax. When I switched my riding became much more relaxed and I felt more control in higher speed turns. I don't know all the dynamics. But it seems that firmly planting the outboard foot and pulling the inboard handlebar helped counteract the forces that wanted to throw me from the bike in aggressive turns. I'm not saying one way is right or better than the other. Just suggesting another point of view..... Jim

[Peteoz]

Thanks Jim, I am currently a “push with the outside arm” guy. I’ll give this method a run :thumbup:

Pete

[BajaRon]

A different point of view..... Previously it was suggested to push with the outboard arm and relax the inboard arm in turns. This is not the first time I have read about that technique. In fact, I tried riding that way for quite a while. Then I read somewhere that I should do just the opposite. Pull on the inboard and let the outboard relax. When I switched my riding became much more relaxed and I felt more control in higher speed turns. I don't know all the dynamics. But it seems that firmly planting the outboard foot and pulling the inboard handlebar helped counteract the forces that wanted to throw me from the bike in aggressive turns. I'm not saying one way is right or better than the other. Just suggesting another point of view..... Jim

I use both methods, usually at the same time. I bias which arm is supplying most of the effort depending on the conditions. Both arms are using the effect of centrifugal force as a counter-weight. But you still need to anchor your body well (Before you start into the turn). Momentum can help, or hurt. You can use it to your advantage if you prepare for it. Use your momentum. Don't let it use you.

Experimentation to find your preference is a good idea. Smooth is Fast! Fast is Safe! Safe is Fun!

I can tell you that you have more control pulling that pushing. If you use just one arm, you are using just one set of muscles for 100% of the input. This can fatigue you more quickly. When using both arms, you're using 2 sets of muscles in each arm, and reducing the effort each arm must exert to get you through the turn. It can also help you stabilize your body motions.

If you can get into a balanced rhythm, it helps.

I don't think anyone ever 'Arrives' on this. But when you get to where you're no longer having to think about it. You are getting very close.

[cptjam]

Looking forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks. Looks interesting! Joe

[Circ]

I had not considered implementing both techniques! Can't wait to try that. Baja Ron spoke of 'anchoring' and I believe this is an underrated concept. I engage my core before any motion but especially when combining upper and lower body functions.

[PMK]

I had not considered implementing both techniques! Can't wait to try that. Baja Ron spoke of 'anchoring' and I believe this is an underrated concept. I engage my core before any motion but especially when combining upper and lower body functions.

As a suggestion that I base on decades of experience racing and testing setups on two wheeled vehicles and more. Simply, ensure the Spyder settings are correct regarding the basics of tire pressures, those electronics in question are nulled, and ideally, you have a correct front wheel alignment.

Adding a Band Aid by altering your riding style when any of those settings are in question is compromising not only the handling, but also the safety of you and the vehicle.

There are times when applying that Band Aid is needed, but in simple terms why fight with a poor setup of the vehicle.

When the chassis is correctly set up, the remarks about riding with a looser grip on the bars, body position, even weighting the outside floorboard when cornering, or clamping the dummy fuel tank with your knees, all those things become more natural and instinctive, vs being an overreaction to a bad setup.

A correctly set up Spyder is extremely easy to ride relaxed and with minimal effort, basically you control the vehicle and it does not object, except maybe a Nanny flash occasionally.

All the best, whatever you decide.

[Papa103]

As another poster suggested. You need to find someone who has experience with Spyders and swap machines. See if he has the same problem with yours or you have the same problem with his. If you both agree its your machine then you will at least know where to start. This may save you a lot of time and money chasing a ghost so to speak.

[Circ]

Since my original post 'Cornering Nightmare' I have begun taking steps which many of you suggested. THANK YOU to all who contributed positive constructive ideas. As mentioned, step 1 was to install a Baja Ron Sway Bar and was always in the plan but I wanted to get intimate with the Spyder before making any changes. Sway bar is installed and it muted the problem but did not eliminate it. Several people suggested Laser alignment and zeroing out the Nanny sensors using Buds. Mentally, I had a hard time accepting why I should need either of those on a brand new machine :banghead: but I sucked it up and had both done by one of the premiere techs in the Spyder World- Squared Away.

These guys KNOW Spyders inside and out and my RT is a completely different animal! It now responds to my input, does what I ask it to do and is a joy to drive/ride. I wish I had done this sooner. :bowdown: Joe and Ann have a passion for what they do and a passion for excellence. I seriously doubt anyone knows more about Spyders anywhere but they don't act like that and they do not charge accordingly. They are located in Las Vegas which was ideal for me but they travel the country doing demos for BRP and working with dealers everywhere. Currently I believe they have a gig in Florida. My unsolicited advice is; find out where they are and take your Spyder to them so they can make it run the way it was designed to.

I still feel there are some improvements to be made like a set of preload adjusters and possibly slightly stiffer springs but for now I am just having fun enjoying my 'new' machine:yes:.

If someone knows how to share The Squared Away logo with their info I would love it. For this technologically challenged motorhead, I just figured out how to use the emojis!

[PMK]

Since my original post 'Cornering Nightmare' I have begun taking steps which many of you suggested. THANK YOU to all who contributed positive constructive ideas. As mentioned, step 1 was to install a Baja Ron Sway Bar and was always in the plan but I wanted to get intimate with the Spyder before making any changes. Sway bar is installed and it muted the problem but did not eliminate it. Several people suggested Laser alignment and zeroing out the Nanny sensors using Buds. Mentally, I had a hard time accepting why I should need either of those on a brand new machine :banghead: but I sucked it up and had both done by one of the premiere techs in the Spyder World- Squared Away.

These guys KNOW Spyders inside and out and my RT is a completely different animal! It now responds to my input, does what I ask it to do and is a joy to drive/ride. I wish I had done this sooner. :bowdown: Joe and Ann have a passion for what they do and a passion for excellence. I seriously doubt anyone knows more about Spyders anywhere but they don't act like that and they do not charge accordingly. They are located in Las Vegas which was ideal for me but they travel the country doing demos for BRP and working with dealers everywhere. Currently I believe they have a gig in Florida. My unsolicited advice is; find out where they are and take your Spyder to them so they can make it run the way it was designed to.

I still feel there are some improvements to be made like a set of preload adjusters and possibly slightly stiffer springs but for now I am just having fun enjoying my 'new' machine:yes:.

If someone knows how to share The Squared Away logo with their info I would love it. For this technologically challenged motorhead, I just figured out how to use the emojis!

Very cool you now have it sorted out. As you learned, and many others should follow, adapting your riding technique to overcome an improper setup is not a great solution.
Out of curiosity, did you happen to note beyond mechanically aligning the wheels, were the sensors far from nulled? Maybe Joe, did not do a before worked on settings check.
Regardless, glad you now have a safer, fun machine to enjoy.

[cptjam]

Not terrible, but between the front wheels, back wheel, tire pressure, alignment, torque offset and sensors, it was a bit off in every area. A new rear tire, and we aligned it. Ann rode it, I rode it, and we could not get Nanny to react. Circ rode it, and could not, either. Fixed it! Thank you for the kind words. Not in Florida, yet; we do Demo rides for BRP in Las Vegas 8-9 October, then off to Florida on the 10th. Back home by 3 December. When on tour, Squared Away is on hold. Back to work in December, doing what we love to do: making Spyders SQUARED AWAY!! Joe

[Pirate]

Not terrible, but between the front wheels, back wheel, tire pressure, alignment, torque offset and sensors, it was a bit off in every area. A new rear tire, and we aligned it. Ann rode it, I rode it, and we could not get Nanny to react. Circ rode it, and could not, either. Fixed it! Thank you for the kind words. Not in Florida, yet; we do Demo rides for BRP in Las Vegas 8-9 October, then off to Florida on the 10th. Back home by 3 December. When on tour, Squared Away is on hold. Back to work in December, doing what we love to do: making Spyders SQUARED AWAY!! Joe

Ever come to central Cal or So Cal?

[PMK]

Not terrible, but between the front wheels, back wheel, tire pressure, alignment, torque offset and sensors, it was a bit off in every area. A new rear tire, and we aligned it. Ann rode it, I rode it, and we could not get Nanny to react. Circ rode it, and could not, either. Fixed it! Thank you for the kind words. Not in Florida, yet; we do Demo rides for BRP in Las Vegas 8-9 October, then off to Florida on the 10th. Back home by 3 December. When on tour, Squared Away is on hold. Back to work in December, doing what we love to do: making Spyders SQUARED AWAY!! Joe

To be clear, are you headed to Deland to do alignments again, or headed to Florida for ambassador training?

[PMK]

Not terrible, but between the front wheels, back wheel, tire pressure, alignment, torque offset and sensors, it was a bit off in every area. A new rear tire, and we aligned it. Ann rode it, I rode it, and we could not get Nanny to react. Circ rode it, and could not, either. Fixed it! Thank you for the kind words. Not in Florida, yet; we do Demo rides for BRP in Las Vegas 8-9 October, then off to Florida on the 10th. Back home by 3 December. When on tour, Squared Away is on hold. Back to work in December, doing what we love to do: making Spyders SQUARED AWAY!! Joe


Other owners, you should heed what has been posted within these posts but also the reply above specifically. These machines are a series of several systems, both mechanical, electronic and physical.

Granted, physically a rider can induce poor handling, but that requires an effort to do that. As for the mechanical and electronic stuff, each must be correct for all to play well together. Mechanically, a poor wheel alignment can create serious handling concerns or tire wear. A correct alignment without having the electronics in tune can trigger all sorts of concerns including handling glitches by activating safety systems. Even something as improper tire pressure can make the best setup machine a turd to ride. Not telling anyone what to do, just something to consider on these machines that employ so much technology.

[cptjam]

To be clear, are you headed to Deland to do alignments again, or headed to Florida for ambassador training?
Neither. Doing a 2022 demo tour to select dealers to showcase the new models. We asked to go to Deland, and the schedule conflicted. I’m hoping my fellow Floridians (high school in St.Pete, Grad school in Melbourne) can come see us! Our tours are so much better when we see our friends! All 21 of our weeks had friends stop by, and share the joy. Hope to see you all!! Joe

[cptjam]

Ever come to central Cal or So Cal?
We do! We need 8 Spyders per day of travel, so SoCal is 1 day. We have been to Tracy many times. Set it up with your club, and we are there!!

[cyclerambler]

Since my original post 'Cornering Nightmare' I have begun taking steps which many of you suggested. THANK YOU to all who contributed positive constructive ideas. As mentioned, step 1 was to install a Baja Ron Sway Bar and was always in the plan but I wanted to get intimate with the Spyder before making any changes. Sway bar is installed and it muted the problem but did not eliminate it. Several people suggested Laser alignment and zeroing out the Nanny sensors using Buds. Mentally, I had a hard time accepting why I should need either of those on a brand new machine :banghead: but I sucked it up and had both done by one of the premiere techs in the Spyder World- Squared Away.

These guys KNOW Spyders inside and out and my RT is a completely different animal! It now responds to my input, does what I ask it to do and is a joy to drive/ride. I wish I had done this sooner. :bowdown: Joe and Ann have a passion for what they do and a passion for excellence. I seriously doubt anyone knows more about Spyders anywhere but they don't act like that and they do not charge accordingly. They are located in Las Vegas which was ideal for me but they travel the country doing demos for BRP and working with dealers everywhere. Currently I believe they have a gig in Florida. My unsolicited advice is; find out where they are and take your Spyder to them so they can make it run the way it was designed to.

I still feel there are some improvements to be made like a set of preload adjusters and possibly slightly stiffer springs but for now I am just having fun enjoying my 'new' machine:yes:.

If someone knows how to share The Squared Away logo with their info I would love it. For this technologically challenged motorhead, I just figured out how to use the emojis!

Have you made any of the shock updates since you started (preload adjusters/springs/new package)? If so can you share any what improvements you noticed? Agree with earlier posters that tight corners at 65 is dangerous...the rt is a great machine...going straight!

[JRat]

Neither. Doing a 2022 demo tour to select dealers to showcase the new models. We asked to go to Deland, and the schedule conflicted. I’m hoping my fellow Floridians (high school in St.Pete, Grad school in Melbourne) can come see us! Our tours are so much better when we see our friends! All 21 of our weeks had friends stop by, and share the joy. Hope to see you all!! Joe

Do you ever come to Indiana?

[Peteoz]

Thanks Jim, I am currently a “push with the outside arm” guy. I’ll give this method a run :thumbup:

Pete

So, Jim…….after a couple of months riding using your pull rather than my past push method on the bars, I have to say that I am far more comfortable with your method. There is something about pulling with the inside arm that makes cornering at all speeds a little smoother for me. I believe it slightly moves my body weight to the inside. I still use both arms from time to time, but predominately use the pull method. Thanks very much for the suggestion :2thumbs:

Pete

[Circ]

Cyclerambler, I have not made any more modifications yet. I want to ride a bit more on my 'new' machine and learn to 'feel' how the changes I made affect the handling. I can still induce the nanny but it takes a pretty heavy off-camber corner to do so. I am leaning towards BajaRon preloads with a spring upgrade but need more seat time to make that decision.

Only dragsters go straight :D

[Lew L]

Cyclerambler,

Only dragsters go straight :D

Maybe you've never ridden a Gen 1 V-Maxnojoke Made some mods and it's better but not "good" Launches hard though.............

[Circ]

New update to my older update! As planned, I put several thousand miles on our new machine, then installed a front suspension upgrade. We went with Baja Ron Preload Adjusters and did not upgrade the springs. There are 8 turns available and Ron told me no-one goes above 5. I laughed (silently) and thought "well, I just might be the exception!" After seating the adjusters, I started at position 3 (turns). Improvement but not what I was hoping for. I put at least 100-200 mi on each setting up to 4 then 5. I found the handling characteristics tapered off at 5 so I backed it off and have put a couple thousand miles on 4.5. By tapered off I mean it becomes too precise to input. Almost to the point of twitchy or a skating feeling. This is exacerbated at speed. Not willing to say what speed because I have no interest in being chastised for my riding style! (again). :lecturef_smilie:
As many of you know this upgrade is amazing and combined with a Baja Ron sway bar and letting Joe and Ann work their magic at Squared Away, our Spyder now performs with (almost) no intervention. I am still able to engage the Nanny but it is way more predictable and I can usually keep out of this dangerous feature with less aggressive behavior.

I believe my next upgrade will be a slightly stiffer spring but this is my analysis so far.

[tntnj]

When I had my 2017 F3 LTD on the Dragon a few years ago, on the real tight turns the Nanny kicked in, so I just gave it more throttle. But it was not to the point that I couldn't enjoy the ride.

Circ, I hope you get the bike tuned to your liking. These bikes are fun to ride, I sold my F3 and bought a Harley Freewheeler... (hated it) and sold it after 6 months and bought a 2021 RT base and not regretting it.

[Rednaxs60]

Circ - following your interesting thread. Riding profile and a person's performance requirements differ greatly between riders. Just returned from a 17,000 Km cross Canada trip, two up towing an N-Line trailer. Bought our 2014 Spyder RTL in Mar 2021, and the upgrade to date is the suspension. Installed M2 shocks, front/rear.

PMK has commented on my thread regarding suspension as has others. I do not expect the Spyder to be a track racer, but I do want to minimize the lean/roll in the corners.

There is a lot of older information on this forum regarding suspension upgrades and is good to delve into. There is not a lot of information outside of the forums, but since the Spyder is very similar to a snowmobile, the snowmobile world is a good resource regarding suspension. My avatar is a, I think, a '70 Skidoo with a summer wheel kit. Tried one of these kits out in the early '70s. This three wheel reverse trike concept is not new.

The rear M2 shock came with a 525 lb/in shock spring, changed to a 700 lb/in shock spring, found it too stiff, settled on a 600 lb/in shock spring. Did the cross Canada trip with the 600 lb/in shock spring with the air assist at minimum and it worked/performed quite well.

As for the front shocks, shock springs were changed from the 250 lb/in as installed to a 300 lb/in shock spring. The additional 50 lb/in rate took a lot of the roll/lean out of the Spyder, but not as much as I would like. Having the passenger assist in the corners helped as well, learning experience for both of us. The Mrs thought that the Spyder being a reverse trike did not require her assistance on the corners as do two wheel bikes.

I'm keeping the shock rebound damping settings as set by the factory, adjusting the damping settings for rebound, and thinking about what shock spring change I should do.

The information I took from other threads is that a 400 lb/in front shock spring is possibly the optimum for these RT models. It was doene on a 2012 RT, and the newer ones are slightly heavier.

The 300 lb/in shock spring does not give a harsh ride with the shock rebound damping at factory setting. I tried the rebound damping at a setting that further reduced body roll/lean, but in doing so, the shock was too stiff and it would "hammer" at the frame. Very uncomfortable noise.

I am going to use the rebound damping adjustment as a measurement to indicate what shock spring I should use - want to stay as close as possible to the factory rebound damping setting to optimize the internal shock valving. For every 10 clicks from the factory rebound damping setting, I am going to increase the shock spring rate by 50 lb/in. I will not be upgrading the shock spring to more than 400 lb/in so I only have two more iterations to try. Very scientific way to go forward.

I want to be as close as possible to the factory setting with the shock springs. Heavier/stiffer shock springs will reduce the amount of preload required to get the correct front ride height - want to try and keep to a maximum of 1 cm (1/2 inch) preload adjustment for front ride height.

My thoughts on the shock spring rate is that if the internal valving is correct for the shock spring being used, the ride quality will be good, and primary roll/lean mitigation will be the shock spring, not the person riding the Spyder - don't like hanging out the side of the Spyder.

I also think the more chassis support from the front shock spring the easier it is to steer the Spyder, and the better the Spyder will perform on corners - sweeping or otherwise.

Having mentioned the above, preload is only for setting the ride height, not for adjusting the stiff/soft aspect of the shock even though it will help a bit. You need to change the shock spring if preload cannot be set as required. You need the appropriate shock spring to compensate for the weight of the Spyder and rider.

From what I have read, I think the OEM front shock spring rate is approximately 200 lb/in. Gives a Cadillac type ride, but sucks in the roll/lean aspect of the Spyder. This fellow installed 400 lb/in front shock springs on the OEM shock and reported the ride as "wonderful", like floating on air. This fellow did a lot of testing and reported his findings in his thread.

Another fellow on this forum installed a 600 lb/in rear shock spring on the OEM shock and reported that it worked well.

Won't belabour the issue, will continue to follow. Good luck. Cheers

[Circ]

tntnj,
I am not able to over-ride the Nanny by giving it more throttle. Believe me, I have tried many times. My nanny literally shuts it down. Scares the snot out of me. Mods are helping immensely.

[Peter Aawen]

When I had my 2017 F3 LTD on the Dragon a few years ago, on the real tight turns the Nanny kicked in, so I just gave it more throttle. But it was not to the point that I couldn't enjoy the ride.

Circ, I hope you get the bike tuned to your liking. These bikes are fun to ride, I sold my F3 and bought a Harley Freewheeler... (hated it) and sold it after 6 months and bought a 2021 RT base and not regretting it.


tntnj,
I am not able to over-ride the Nanny by giving it more throttle. Believe me, I have tried many times. My nanny literally shuts it down. Scares the snot out of me. Mods are helping immensely.

The F3 Nannies allow a little more steering angle, a little more yaw, & a little more wheelspin than the RT Nannies, so if you're careful not to reach the limits of any of those parameters on your Spyder, you can actually hang the tail of an F3 on the corners somewhat more than you can on an RT! :lecturef_smilie:

Both will let you do that tail happy bit to a carefully monitored 'certain extent', but the F3's have a little more leeway than the RT's; and while this applies to both, it applies particularly with the RT's, there's a very definite 'that's enough, now behave!' rap over the knuckles from the Nanny that brooks absobloodylutely NO pushing of the boundaries, sneak up on the limits of steering angles, yaw limits, &/or wheelspin however carefully you might try!! :gaah:

That said, if you're prepared to move your body around more as you corner, maybe even pulling in hard on the inside bar & getting down to kiss your wrist while hanging your tail off the inside of the seat on tight corners and so work hard to keep your weight in & down going into & thru the corners, thereby limiting the RT's body roll & yaw, you juuust might find that you can get around the harder/tighter corners somewhat quicker with no Nanny intervention than you do when just sitting on the seat & expecting the bike to do all the work for you will allow; but it does get to be fairly hard work pretty quickly, especially on the RT's - fun tho, & a great work-out, thighs, glutes, & upper body especially! :ohyea:

[UtahPete]

I've got soooo much more to learn about modding and riding the Spyder optimally. I'm inspired by you lot.

[PMK]

tntnj,
I am not able to over-ride the Nanny by giving it more throttle. Believe me, I have tried many times. My nanny literally shuts it down. Scares the snot out of me. Mods are helping immensely.

Our 2014 is currently very dialed in handling wise. I am planning to make adjustments to further increase the Spyders ability to corner better and faster with even less chassis lean. With the setup installed of Fox Shox, Ron bar, Formoza tires and aligned by myself, the Spyder has incredible straight line stability, while being able to corner intensely without triggering the Nanny stability system. I do have plans to alter the front ride height in an effort to lower CG and better position the instantaneous chassis roll center. Ideally I can get a bit of negative camber without making parts. As before, will align to my own settings and reset the sensors with BUDS.

I do leave the BRP hitch installed all the time to increase the twisting stiffness of the rear suspension swingarm. This helps prevent the swingarm from winding up in the corners and unwinding like a spring when corner forces are reduced. The hitch acts similar to having a rear swaybar. Rear tire grip is a non issue with the increased stiffness of the swingarm on account that our setup uses high performance summer weather rear tire that is super tacky.

[Circ]

Ernest, Thank you for your detailed, 'scientific' and thoughtful response. Your original input was largely responsible for my direction. Thanks also for verifying my next approach of springs. Like yourself, I would have put an additional 50 lbs into them. I believe my RT is way undersprung and will probably go to a 400 lb spring in the front. My CFO thanks you for saving me from buying a part twice!

Love your Avatar and totally remember the mod for the Skidoo. If memory serves me, it graced the cover of Popular Mechanics.

[Circ]

PMK, I have no idea what it feels like to NOT have the hitch on. It has been on since day one. What you say makes good sense regarding cornering forces. Due to the receiver I welded onto the hitch for my bike rack, it will never be removed. I hope this pic comes out. My computer is 20 years old and my brain is....well, significantly older than that.
198051