Baja Ron metal spacers

[myrz]

Why doesn't the Baja Ron sway bar instructions for the 2013-2016 ST, ST-S, ST-LTD mention anything about the 8 metal spacers?

http://www.lamonstergarage.com/can-am-spyder-st-rs-bajaron-performance-sway-bar-2013-16/

UPDATE: I found that the PDF instructions on Lamonster and a few other place's on the web were using an older version of the instructions. Make sure you follow the instructions that come with your Baja Ron sway bar kit as they are the updated version. My version was 3.2 and gives full details of spacers that I questioned above. Sorry for the confusion.

[Peter Aawen]

WHAT metal spacers are you talking about?? Do you have metal spacers somewhere on your Spyder/Ryker sway bar assembly?? Which year model do you have? Exactly where are the said spacers?? Need more info? :dontknow:

[myrz]

I edited my original post. Sorry

[trikermutha]

Email him to find out.

I am going to speculate they are for the helm links if needed.

[Peter Aawen]

So I say again, WHAT spacers?? :dontknow: There's none I can see in Lamonster's kit?? Or are you calling those different colored Sway Bar Links with heim joints in the end spacers?? :dontknow:

Still at a bit of a loss here?? :rolleyes:

[trikermutha]

The bag with spacers or washers.

[myrz]

yes there is 8 spacers in a package, and I realize they are for the heims.

[MeudtPG]

189495
I found it easiest to do a touch of super glue holding them in place while installing.

[T.P.]

YES PETER, there are 8 spacers in the small bag in the center of the sway bar photo.
I just did a sway bar install and dropped the spacers a couple of times. I have another install in a week and will try the super glue trick.

T.P.

[Snoking1127]

3/8" wood dowel or plastic tube works great while you push them up into the A-frame. You push the dowel out with the bolt. He should include the dowel with the kit. They are aluminum and do not over tighten the bolts or you will crush them. narrow side goes to hemi joint.

[Arion]

189495
I found it easiest to do a touch of super glue holding them in place while installing.

Agree. That recommendation was included in the instructions that came with the Baja Ron sway bar kit for my 2015 RT-S. Works like a charm too.

[myrz]

I just simply put a dab of grease on the heim or spacer. this allows the spacer to stick to the heim long enough for me to get the bolt through.

[Longtimer]

I just simply put a dab of grease on the heim or spacer. this allows the spacer to stick to the heim long enough for me to get the bolt through. My instructions say nothing about these spacers. One side of spacer is flat the other side is rounded. some of the ones I have noticed on video's or photo's must be from older kits that seem to use just thick flat washers type spacers.

But with the ones in my kit, i was wondering if the flat edge goes towards the frame or heim? I'll try to get a photo today

The tapper goes towards the hem ball in the link the larger flat goes toward the frame

[Valkrocket]

Seems like a legit question to me. I also always use a dab of grease to hold loose parts in place, like those spacers under the rear of the 2018 RTL seat when replacing it.

[PMK]

Interesting. The early type utilized wider high misalignment bearings. Do not recall those needing spacers or shims. This is in reference to the aluminum dogbone style links with bearings pressed into them.

[myrz]

Oops! I must apologize! My shop is separate from my house and I had left my instructions in the shop. Therefore, I was going by the PDF instructions I found on lamonster, which are not the updated instructions. My instructions are labeled Version 3.2 which must be the latest version and it does include a lot more info including the stainless steel spacers. But it was nice to learn your technique's of getting that pesky spacer to stay in place during installation. Thanks everyone!

[Snoking1127]

Oops! I must apologize! My shop is separate from my house and I had left my instructions in the shop. Therefore, I was going by the PDF instructions I found on lamonster, which are not the updated instructions. My instructions are labeled Version 3.2 which must be the latest version and it does include a lot more info including the stainless steel spacers. But it was nice to learn your technique's of getting that pesky spacer to stay in place during installation. Thanks everyone!

So the spacers have been changed for aluminum to SS? I helped install a new one just over a week ago and the spacers were still aluminum.

[myrz]

So the spacers have been changed for aluminum to SS? I helped install a new one just over a week ago and the spacers were still aluminum.

The instructions call them Stainless Steel

[Snoking1127]

The instructions call them Stainless Steel

Both the sway bars I installed had aluminum ones and there was a warning on here I believe by Ron, to not over tighten them, as they can be crushed!

[BajaRon]

Hopefully, I can clear things up a bit. Probably more information than you're looking for. But I want to cover all the bases because these are good and important questions being asked.

Our long past, aluminum dog bone links had trunnion bearings. These are basically spherical ball bearings with the spacers machined in giving you a 1 piece assembly. This makes installation of a bar kit easier. But trunnion bearings are a rare bird and have to be custom made. This raises the price a bit. But it is the production and assembly process to incorporate the race that really increases the price of a trunnion bearing. A trunnion bearing cannot be quickly, easily, or cheaply pressed into a race like a spherical bearing. For a trunnion, the race must be built around the bearing. A much slower and costlier procedure. In addition to this, it is more difficult to get the needed, close tolerance between the bearing and the race. Bottom line. If you don't REALLY need a trunnion bearing, it can be an expensive headache for all but the bar install for the end user. (Which is not an unimportant consideration, by any means)

OEM, BRP plastic links use a Trunnion bearing. But to avoid the added expense, BRP uses no race at all. The bearing simply presses into the compliant plastic. This is why their links have an extremely tight fit to the bearing. If they were not tight, the bearings would fall out as the plastic gives under stress. Some are simply too tight and will not move. In these cases, the plastic link itself will bend and twist.

Our earlier dog bone links with trunnion bearings work extremely well for most customers. But for those who ride in salt environments, they may rust. Not good. I tried many different angles to get a better quality trunnion bearing. To get what I wanted, it was just way too much money. So, we decided to look into other ways of achieving a higher quality bearing that would be impervious to the elements.

We ended up going with spherical bearing rod ends. This, of course, meant spacers, which I was trying to avoid. But it also meant a good deal of cost savings which we could put towards a much better end product. Namely, a hardened, heat treated, chromoly steel rod end with a hard chromed spherical ball bearing in a self lubricating nylon race. The end cost was a little more than the previous trunnion product. But the tolerances and quality were much improved. Pictured below is our current link set for the Ryker. The Spyder links are the same, just in a larger size.

Now to the Spacers.
Spacers for the Spyder link sets are machine tapered stainless steel. Originally, they were aluminum, which worked well enough. But we found that the machine tapered stainless steel were a better fit for the Spyder.
Spacers for the Ryker have always been aluminum. These seem to be working very well for the Ryker.

That is pretty much it. Other than some vendors are still posting outdated instructions. Be assured that all bar kits are being sent out with current instructions. I am not aware of any issues in this regard.

Questions are always welcome. The more you know, the better your odds of getting what you want the 1st time.

[Snoking1127]

Hopefully, I can clear things up a bit. Probably more information than you're looking for. But I want to cover all the bases because these are good and important questions being asked.

Our long past, aluminum dog bone links had trunnion bearings. These are basically spherical ball bearings with the spacers machined in giving you a 1 piece assembly. This makes installation of a bar kit easier. But trunnion bearings are a rare bird and have to be custom made. This raises the price a bit. But it is the production and assembly process to incorporate the race that really increases the price of a trunnion bearing. A trunnion bearing cannot be quickly, easily, or cheaply pressed into a race like a spherical bearing. For a trunnion, the race must be built around the bearing. A much slower and costlier procedure. In addition to this, it is more difficult to get the needed, close tolerance between the bearing and the race. Bottom line. If you don't REALLY need a trunnion bearing, it can be an expensive headache for all but the bar install for the end user. (Which is not an unimportant consideration, by any means)

OEM, BRP plastic links use a Trunnion bearing. But to avoid the added expense, BRP uses no race at all. The bearing simply presses into the compliant plastic. This is why their links have an extremely tight fit to the bearing. If they were not tight, the bearings would fall out as the plastic gives under stress. Some are simply too tight and will not move. In these cases, the plastic link itself will bend and twist.

Our earlier dog bone links with trunnion bearings work extremely well for most customers. But for those who ride in salt environments, they may rust. Not good. I tried many different angles to get a better quality trunnion bearing. To get what I wanted, it was just way too much money. So, we decided to look into other ways of achieving a higher quality bearing that would be impervious to the elements.

We ended up going with spherical bearing rod ends. This, of course, meant spacers, which I was trying to avoid. But it also meant a good deal of cost savings which we could put towards a much better end product. Namely, a hardened, heat treated, chromoly steel rod end with a hard chromed spherical ball bearing in a self lubricating nylon race. The end cost was a little more than the previous trunnion product. But the tolerances and quality were much improved. Pictured below is our current link set for the Ryker. The Spyder links are the same, just in a larger size.

Now to the Spacers.
Spacers for the Spyder link sets are machine tapered stainless steel. Originally, they were aluminum, which worked well enough. But we found that the machine tapered stainless steel were a better fit for the Spyder.
Spacers for the Ryker have always been aluminum. These seem to be working very well for the Ryker.

That is pretty much it. Other than some vendors are still posting outdated instructions. Be assured that all bar kits are being sent out with current instructions. I am not aware of any issues in this regard.

Questions are always welcome. The more you know, the better your odds of getting what you want the 1st time.

When were the Spyder spacers switched to SS? Bolt the sway bars I installed appeared to have the stepped aluminum ones.

[BajaRon]

When were the Spyder spacers switched to SS? Bolt the sway bars I installed appeared to have the stepped aluminum ones.

If they are stepped (tapered) they are stainless. We only ran the aluminum on the Spyder for a short time. They were straight without any step or taper.

[Snoking1127]

If they are stepped (tapered) they are stainless. We only ran the aluminum on the Spyder for a short time. They were straight without any step or taper.

So the warning about over tighten is mute?

[Peter Aawen]

So the warning about over tighten is mute?

If you're worrying about 'over-tightening' the stainless steel washers/spacers, then it certainly appears to be mute, but you'll hafta wait for BajaRon's reply to see if it's moot. ;)

(mute - adverb: refraining from speech or temporarily speechless - "Irene, the talkative one, was now mute" or verb: deaden, muffle, or soften the sound of - "her footsteps were muted by the thick carpet"

moot - adjective: having little or no practical relevance, typically because the subject is too uncertain to allow a decision - "the whole matter is becoming increasingly moot")


Sorry, but I just hadta! :roflblack: She made me do it! :dg2:

[Snoking1127]

If you're worrying about 'over-tightening' the stainless steel washers/spacers, then it certainly appears to be mute, but you'll hafta wait for BajaRon's reply to see if it's moot. ;)

(mute - adverb: refraining from speech or temporarily speechless - "Irene, the talkative one, was now mute" or verb: deaden, muffle, or soften the sound of - "her footsteps were muted by the thick carpet"

moot - adjective: having little or no practical relevance, typically because the subject is too uncertain to allow a decision - "the whole matter is becoming increasingly moot")


Sorry, but I just hadta! :roflblack: She made me do it! :dg2:

Yeah, Moot!

[BajaRon]

So the warning about over tighten is mute?

The short answer is 'No'. The warning is neither Mute nor Moot... :rolleyes: (Wow! The conversations that we generate here can be very interesting!)

The previous links with the trunnion bearings (which were hardened steel) could stand up to anything. Some feel that if 'Tight' is good, 'Tighter' is better. And a few believe that 'Killer, Ridiculous Tight' is better still. This was not a concern with the trunnion bearings.

Mostly installers got used to this and some were crushing the aluminum spacers. This is just 1 reason we quickly switched to the current stainless steel version. The stainless steel spacers will take much more pressure than the aluminum. And plenty more than is necessary for a safe install. But still not the unlimited force as did the trunnion bearings. So, we left the 'Warning' about overtightening in the instructions.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

We ended up going with spherical bearing rod ends.
Just out of curiosity, how are the rod ends anchored into the link? Threaded and locked, or push fit with pins through the link and shaft of the rod end. You really don't want the links to be adjustable in length which is what you would get with a threaded unlocked connection.

[Snoking1127]

Just out of curiosity, how are the rod ends anchored into the link? Threaded and locked, or push fit with pins through the link and shaft of the rod end. You really don't want the links to be adjustable in length which is what you would get with a threaded unlocked connection.

One rod end would need left hand threads for them to be adjustable. My guess, and Ron should be along to answer, is they are both right hand threaded with good loc-tight. No pinning visible.

[BajaRon]

Just out of curiosity, how are the rod ends anchored into the link? Threaded and locked, or push fit with pins through the link and shaft of the rod end. You really don't want the links to be adjustable in length which is what you would get with a threaded unlocked connection.

Funny you should ask!

They are treaded with Red Locktite. So, they are essentially a 1 piece unit when you receive them.

You are correct that they should never be adjusted. And I have gone to lengths to make sure you can't adjust them. But I've had customers call, insisting that my links are adjustable. When I told them that they were not adjustable (and you wouldn't want them to be adjustable), they told me I was wrong! Even after I explained that I assemble these links myself!

Now I understand that I've been wrong before. But there is a pretty good chance that I have this one right! A few customers have insisted that they needed adjustable end links. I can never get them to tell me why. I suspect that someone has told them that they need to be adjusted and they themselves do not know why. I could sell adjustable end links. But it would only create issues for the buyer. I don't want people to find out the hard way. So, when I declined to sell these customers adjustable end links. Explaining to them why they don't want that feature, they said they would purchase adjustable links elsewhere.


One rod end would need left hand threads for them to be adjustable. My guess, and Ron should be along to answer, is they are both right hand threaded with good loc-tight. No pinning visible.

Correct. Threaded with Red Locktite.

There are reasons for adjustable end links. For example, if you are racing Nascar where you only turn left, you want to bias your sway bar to better handle left hand turns. But we tend to want to turn both left and right. In this case, you DO NOT want to have anything other than both links identical length and the exact length that they are. Any adjustment from these dimensions will reduce the efficiency of the sway bar.

And, you are correct again. Adjustable links have 1 Right Hand Thread and 1 Left Hand Thread. Both ends of my links have Right Hand Threads. So, even if you were to spin the center piece. It would just move one end out and the other end in. Leaving you with no change in length. You would have to disconnect one end of the link and just spin one rod end to get a physical length change. Too much and you would not have enough thread engagement to prevent failure.

People can be strange, at times. I can only attribute it to a lack of understanding of the dynamics involved.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Thanks.

[PMK]

Funny you should ask!

They are treaded with Red Locktite. So, they are essentially a 1 piece unit when you receive them.

You are correct that they should never be adjusted. And I have gone to lengths to make sure you can't adjust them. But I've had customers call, insisting that my links are adjustable. When I told them that they were not adjustable (and you wouldn't want them to be adjustable), they told me I was wrong! Even after I explained that I assemble these links myself!

Now I understand that I've been wrong before. But there is a pretty good chance that I have this one right! A few customers have insisted that they needed adjustable end links. I can never get them to tell me why. I suspect that someone has told them that they need to be adjusted and they themselves do not know why. I could sell adjustable end links. But it would only create issues for the buyer. I don't want people to find out the hard way. So, when I declined to sell these customers adjustable end links. Explaining to them why they don't want that feature, they said they would purchase adjustable links elsewhere.



Correct. Threaded with Red Locktite.

There are reasons for adjustable end links. For example, if you are racing Nascar where you only turn left, you want to bias your sway bar to better handle left hand turns. But we tend to want to turn both left and right. In this case, you DO NOT want to have anything other than both links identical length and the exact length that they are. Any adjustment from these dimensions will reduce the efficiency of the sway bar.

And, you are correct again. Adjustable links have 1 Right Hand Thread and 1 Left Hand Thread. Both ends of my links have Right Hand Threads. So, even if you were to spin the center piece. It would just move one end out and the other end in. Leaving you with no change in length. You would have to disconnect one end of the link and just spin one rod end to get a physical length change. Too much and you would not have enough thread engagement to prevent failure.

People can be strange, at times. I can only attribute it to a lack of understanding of the dynamics involved.

Agree that for the majority of owners, plug and play is best.
If an owner were knowledgable enough to understand how to correctly set the chassis, even for going straight, then adjustable links would be a benefit if adjusted correctly. I would expect though, that a person that knows chassis setup would easily know how to defeat the Loctite, or would have the access and ability to build links capable of a zero / zero setting.

There is far more to correctly establishing correct chassis setup than alter swaybar preloads.