New to my Spyder & it wobbles down the road! Ideas?

[Cirhere]

Don't hang me but I test drove one last year kinda liked it so bought a 2020 RTL in January
I finally got to put several miles on it today My first impression is
IT WOBBLES DOWN THE ROAD seems like I am fighting it to stay in a straight line
anyone else think this

[RayBJ]

Probably needs alignment or you are trying to 'steer' instead of a light touch to 'guide' it. Also look into a sway bar & tire upgrades. Worlds of difference over stock!

[ARtraveler]

:welcome: and :congrats: on your new Spyder.

A common thing to those new to riding the :f_spider:

The suggestion above of over-controlling is a good one. A light grip, no white knuckles, is recommended. I used to tell people to pretend there is an egg between the grip and your hands. DON'T BREAK THE EGG. A gentle push/pull on the bars will usually correct it. The spyder is very responsive to even the smallest inputs.

Another possibility is mis alignment or bad tires. Rare, but it happens.

Here is a good read:
https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?41346-quot-Do-s-and-Do-Nots-quot-for-new-Spyder-owners

[Cirhere]

Thanks guys I really appreciate the input

[JayBros]

What Ray and AR have said is spot on. While you may not want to try it right now, if your Spyder is properly aligned and you go tooling down the road you should be able to lift your mitts off the bars and it will track like an arrow shot from a crossbow. Be absolutely certain that your front tires are inflated as close to identical and at absolute worst not more than 1/2 lb different from each other.

[Peter Aawen]

DON'T FIGHT IT!! :lecturef_smilie:

Spyders have 2 wheels up front, so there's always going to be waaayyy more steering feedback than on a motorcycle with only one wheel up front, or an auto that's 3 times heavier on much the same sized front tire footprint! Just relax your grip on the handlebars, drop your elbows & shoulders down & back, and gently GUIDE your Spyder down the road! Look waaay out ahead and plan where you want to go, then gently follow that path without fighting or 'micro-managing' the close in steering in response to the little bumps & wobbles - just gently guide your Spyder along that path & ignore the minor steering feedback caused by having two sets of tire footprints up front! :ohyea:

Even then it'll probably take some miles to get used to it, they are very different to a 2 wheeled motorcycle in thisrespect (& others!) so if you have extensive motorcycle experience, it might take some hundreds of miles (or even maybe a thousand or so!) of saddle time to overcome the ingrained responses & your 'feel' expectations, but once you do, WOOHEEE, then you'll really start to enjoy the Miles of Smiles most of us rave about! If you don't have that extensive experience on a 2 wheeler, you've just gotta put in the saddle time to learn the limits & feel there too! So get some more gentle & relaxed miles under your belt & come back to tell us how your going & if it's become any better yet. ;)

That said, while the latest versions haven't had quite the same degree of concern, earlier Spyders especially were renowned for leaving the factory AND dealers with APPALLING wheel alignment; and the OE spec Kenda tires rate pretty much lower than a piss on a dusty road, so if relaxing your grip & gently guiding rather than fighting it doesn't improve things for you, consider getting a proper wheel alignment from someone who knows what they are doing (like Squared Away, altho they are having an 'alignment break' atm while touring & running intro/demo rides for BRP) - generally, & sadly, getting a good laser alignment will mean going somewhere OTHER than your dealer! :sour: And once you've got a good alignment done, you can fit new 'real' auto tires, up front especially, and maybe even upgrade the swaybar & endlinks with BajaRon's significantly improved version - 'real' tires (run at about 16-18 psi as appropriate for the lighter loading) plus a good swaybar with solid endlinks insread of the OE 'floppy Cheese-stick' bar with flexible & dodgy OE placcy links will significantly improve your ride & handling even further beyond the improvements gained thru getting the wheels aligned properly & learning to relax & gently guide your Spyder rather than trying to muscle it along! :thumbup:

Good Luck! :cheers:

[MONK]

What others have said about not fighting the steering. If there's a cross wind, YOU should move, not the bike. Unless you're in the twisties, resting your hands on the grips works wonders. Probably not a tire issue on a year old bike but once your tires wear out (or maybe before they do), a set of car tires is supposed to be the bees knees. I only have about 3k miles on my bike but car tires will be in my future come spring.

[gkamer]

You say to put “several miles” on it today. IMHO that’s barely enough saddle time to get the engine up to temp. :)

As others have mentioned already, a very light touch is all that’s required to control your Ryker. Normally when I ride I just rest my left hand on the handle bars. The only reason I even grip the right bar is to hold the throttle open.

I think you’ll find the more time you put in the saddle the more you’ll learn to feel what the bike is telling you and the more confident you’ll become in it’s handling characteristics.

[K80Shooter]

Also check air pressure in the tires, if too much air it over steers real easy.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

What others have said about not fighting the steering. If there's a cross wind, YOU should move, not the bike. Unless you're in the twisties, resting your hands on the grips works wonders. Probably not a tire issue on a year old bike but once your tires wear out (or maybe before they do), a set of car tires is supposed to be the bees knees. I only have about 3k miles on my bike but car tires will be in my future come spring.

Actually if the spyder still has OEM - Kenda tires it could very well be the tires ..... " new " means nothing when it comes to Kenda tires .... this brand has the worst " Defective tire " record of any tire manufacturer I have ever known ..... Mike :thumbup:

[Rocketman 2012]

Take this advice/ opinion with a grain of Salt as I just got my new 2021 RT SE6 last Saturday, 3-6-21 and have put only 250 or so miles on it so far, mostly on Rural country roads, with a bit of interstate thrown in for the fun of it. I am still breaking the 'Bike' in and taking it easy.

I have been riding motorcycles since 1962 when I was 15 1/2 and got my permit and have never been without a bike in that entire time, having just sold my brand new Honda Africa Twin Adventure Sports a few weeks ago and it was number 88.:)

I have raced semi-Pro on every kind of Track, raced for years in the Southern Calif deserts, foothills and mountains and even BAJA, Mexico and even Trials and finally apropos to this handling discussion, I find that the Spyder responds just like the 3 wheel ATV's to body movement and weight distribution where leaning is important. To some extent, 4 wheel ATV's require the same thinking to ride quickly. I'm 'talking' direction changes at high speed, in the dirt on racing 3 wheelers and quads. I have found the same applies to the Spyder.

Another problem I don't see mentioned is ROAD SURFACE! The roads in MANY areas in this country are engineered to allow rain water to run off to the sides so they are crowned or canted and this causes WANDERING to some extent. A person tends to fight wandering and when the Spyder does so it's a bit disconcerting for sure. I experienced this frequently on the Rural roads of SW Missouri--64836.

Conversely, on a nice, flat and newer section of Highway or especially on an Interstate, the Spyder tracks very easily and with the cruise control on and the hands just very lightly resting on the handlebars, the ride is SO very smooth and true.

The SAGE advice you have been given here is spot on in my new and very humble experience but I'm sure it will all come together for you soon.

Someone told me on the Motorcycle Forum where I am a Moderator that a Spyder was hard to ride and scary but after I watched a LOT of Youtube Videos, I was convinced otherwise! The best one I saw was when a Spyder rider addressed the supposed difficulty by riding around in a parking lot, at barely walking speeds, just barely using the throttle, doing circle 8's, with the ease of a Child on a Tricycle. The power steering makes this possible.

It took me maybe 10 miles to feel 90% comfortable and to lose my preconceived fears of 3 wheels, due to untold miles of touring and riding motorcycles.

Have fun and don't over think everything. There are classes available!

Sam:)

[Time2ride]

If my spyder sits for a few weeks, when I first head out I can feel the flat spots on the tires until the air inside the tires heats up and expands. I stay in town on 45 mph roads for about 10 miles before hitting highway speeds.

[MONK]

Also check air pressure in the tires, if too much air it over steers real easy.

No kidding! I normally keep about 19# in my stock Kendas. When I went in for my 3k mile service a few weeks ago, they put 21# in the front tires. I could barely keep it on the road on the way home. Needless to say, they now have 18.5-19# in them.


Actually if the spyder still has OEM - Kenda tires it could very well be the tires ..... " new " means nothing when it comes to Kenda tires .... this brand has the worst " Defective tire " record of any tire manufacturer I have ever known ..... Mike :thumbup:

I mostly agree, Mike. I'm just saying that the tires probably aren't worn out and probably aren't causing the issues with only a year on the bike. Guess I should have asked how many miles are on it, too.

FWIW, I've got 3k miles on my bike and am just about to order new front tires. Either V'steins or Federals. My front Kendas aren't even close to being worn out but I ride aggressively and.......well, I don't have to tell you, do I? :)

[Cirhere]

What car tires do you guys suggest and what PSI

[ThreeWheels]

I'm coming late to the party, but I have a lot of experience with a wobbling Spyder.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?19631-My-Journey-to-Good-Handling&highlight=journey+good+handling

Easiest to check first is the tire pressure. If the front tire pressures are different from each other, it will cause the Spyder to wobble.
Also, if the tire pressure is too high, the contact patch rounds out. The Spyder sits up "on the balls if it's feet" so to speak. If the pressure is too low, the contact patch flattens out and the Spyder is difficult to turn. The pressure should be between 17 and 21 PSI, but you might find a little higher or a little lower may work for you. A little experimenting with pressure may be in order.
If none of the above works for you, I'd check the alignment.
Many, many of the early Spyders came from the factory mis-aligned, and the Spyder felt like it was bouncing all over the road.
With time, it seems BRP has gotten far better at aligning the Spyders from the factory.
You may have something mechanically wrong with your bike. This could be a premature failure of the tires, or the suspension system.
In order, I'd suggest:
1) Tire Pressures
2) Alignment
3) Mechanical Components (tires, suspension)

Good Luck. Keep us posted.

[RayBJ]

Search for tires on the forum and be prepared to do lots of reading!

I threw away the Kendas at 1k. Made from recycled water bottles!

[Snoking1127]

What car tires do you guys suggest and what PSI

I run 16.5 in my Federal Formoza AZ01s. I have asked Federal for an inflation chart for this tire, however have not yet heard back from them.

[ButterSmooth]

Give it some time. It took me 1000 miles to be at peace with my RT. Another 1000 to learn how to control it efficiently. Somewhere around 3000, I found myself using only the rear brake on my Quad -- transformation complete. After 57 years on two wheels, there were things and feelings I had to unlearn. Over 6000 miles now and I can recognize the special uniqueness of this vehicle. Be patient, it's worth it.

One of the 'two wheel feelings' is always being at the center of gravity, so all the forces go directly down through the wheels. No side-to-side forces like the Spyder. When the Spyder tips, following the road irregularities, it feels like you're turning and you react by pushing on the bars. Then you are turning and your body experiences a new and different force than you ever felt on a motorcycle. At first, I was jinking all over the road, reacting to non-motorcycle force 'feelings'. My reactions were subconscious, honestly earned motorcycling skills.

You'll get it -- it just takes time. Few people will take as long as I took to acclimate.

[Cobwebs]

Alignment

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Easiest to check first is the tire pressure. If the front tire pressure is different, it will cause the Spyder to wobble.
A good way to make sure both front tires are at the same pressure is to use this: https://spyderstore.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63&product_id=54.

188334

JT Thornton shows another version without the dial gauge but it comes up not in stock. It looks kind of like JT isn't real active in the Spyder accessory business now.

I made one like it myself. It works really great. It's surprising how little difference in pressure between the two tires can affect handling.

[Deanna777]

:congrats:


& :welcome:

Let the smiles and miles begin!


Alignment!


Deanna

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

What car tires do you guys suggest and what PSI

The Vredestein Q-5 isn't the lowest price tire, but it is the best tire for Spyders in Wet, Dry, Comfort etc. and it actually earned a Winter rating ..... this matters because although we don't ride in the snow .... the Winter rating rating means it will perform well at colder road temps. ..... lots of folks here attest to how good they are ..... Mike :thumbup:

[ARtraveler]

I have a slightly different story with the OEM Kenda tires. I have now owned 7 different Spyders.

I find that the OEM Front tires, consistently last me for 15k to 20K miles. I usually get 15K miles out of the REAR tire. The only exception was the 2014 RT which came with a new version. They were a softer rubber. I only got 8K out of the rear and 14K out of the fronts.

I currently have 13K on the 2019 F3. That will get a new tire in a couple weeks. When I replaced tires on the last two (2014 and 2011), they got new "darkside" tires. The jury is out because both were traded off before they wore out. 10K and and 15K when they were traded off.

My 2019 will get "darkside" tires. And then I can start the testing all over again. In over 175,000 assorted miles on the Kenda's, I have NEVER had a performance issue or a failure. They are NOT as good as "darkside" tires...but IMO, they are ok for OEM. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[ozarkryder]

Most of the above mentioned the many ways a Spyder could be not tracking correctly, but the reason steering on Spyders is so quick is that they have electrically assisted power steering. Compared with other bikes, and especially trikes that don't have a rake kit, this makes the Spyder feel very twitchy until the pilot gets used to it. The first thing to do, as mentioned above, if to make sure the tire pressure is the same in the front wheels. The second thing to do also is recommended above, put miles on the trike. Get used to the way it handles. After that you may want to go down the mod/upgrade route. I recommend one thing at the time. I've known people that added mods that fixed a problem, then added more that made it worse again. More than one mod at a time and you won't know what one worked or why.

[Snoking1127]

Most of the above mentioned the many ways a Spyder could be not tracking correctly, but the reason steering on Spyders is so quick is that they have electrically assisted power steering. Compared with other bikes, and especially trikes that don't have a rake kit, this makes the Spyder feel very twitchy until the pilot gets used to it. The first thing to do, as mentioned above, if to make sure the tire pressure is the same in the front wheels. The second thing to do also is recommended above, put miles on the trike. Get used to the way it handles. After that you may want to go down the mod/upgrade route. I recommend one thing at the time. I've known people that added mods that fixed a problem, then added more that made it worse again. More than one mod at a time and you won't know what one worked or why.

Better tires and the Bajaron HD sway bar are both positive mods/additions. I did Federals and a couple weeks later the sway bar, and both were noticeable incremental improvements.

[RICZ]

I got some good info form some of these same people when I started. Here they, as short as I can make them...
+ Loose hands and arms. The steering reacts to every input.
+ Press down HARD on the outside board/peg and lean into the turns.
+ It will take 1,000 miles before you get used to it. Gotta rewire those synapsis.
+ It will take another 1,00 miles before you feel that you are in control. Synapsis rewired.
+ Do not do any handling mods until after that 2,000 mile mark. I got this from Bajaron.
+ Do one mod at a time so you know what they do for the bike.
+ I did front car tires first and put another 1,000 on before adding Ron's sway bar.
+ Stay tuned to this forum and you will learn enough to do your own maintenance.
+ Go forth and enjoy.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

No kidding! I normally keep about 19# in my stock Kendas. When I went in for my 3k mile service a few weeks ago, they put 21# in the front tires. I could barely keep it on the road on the way home. Needless to say, they now have 18.5-19# in them.



I mostly agree, Mike. I'm just saying that the tires probably aren't worn out and probably aren't causing the issues with only a year on the bike. Guess I should have asked how many miles are on it, too.

FWIW, I've got 3k miles on my bike and am just about to order new front tires. Either V'steins or Federals. My front Kendas aren't even close to being worn out but I ride aggressively and.......well, I don't have to tell you, do I? :)

I'm glad you " mostly agree with my post " ..... New Kenda's have defects, and even if they WEREN'T defective when New, doesn't mean they are NOT the issue .... Quite a few folks here have reported " BELT SEPARATION " early on in their mileage.

[acdcking12]

I have a slightly different story with the OEM Kenda tires. I have now owned 7 different Spyders.

I find that the OEM Front tires, consistently last me for 15k to 20K miles. I usually get 15K miles out of the REAR tire. The only exception was the 2014 RT which came with a new version. They were a softer rubber. I only got 8K out of the rear and 14K out of the fronts.

I currently have 13K on the 2019 F3. That will get a new tire in a couple weeks. When I replaced tires on the last two (2014 and 2011), they got new "darkside" tires. The jury is out because both were traded off before they wore out. 10K and and 15K when they were traded off.

My 2019 will get "darkside" tires. And then I can start the testing all over again. In over 175,000 assorted miles on the Kenda's, I have NEVER had a performance issue or a failure. They are NOT as good as "darkside" tires...but IMO, they are ok for OEM. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


What is a darkside tire?

[Chiefburg]

Yep, as said already, it takes about 1000 miles to get more comfortable. I came from two wheels and my first ride of 15 miles were grueling and I thought I had made a big mistake in buying the RTL. I listened to the advice here - specifically the deathgrip - and it wasn’t too long before I got comfortable. I did need to replace my sway bar with a Baja Ron bar and that helped. But the biggest thing was just time behind the handlebars and stop thinking it should react like a two wheeler.

I now cruise down the freeway at 70mph with some pretty strong crosswinds and I rarely bat an eye. You just need some time.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

What is a darkside tire?

This term was coined when folks began using Auto tires on TWO wheel motorcycles ..... IMHO it doesn't really apply to Spyders since they come from the Factory with Auto tires ..... yes they state on the sidewall of the Kenda tires ... " for SPECIAL motorcycle use Only " but this is for claimed LEGAL purposes ( which is Hooey - H.D. has Dunlop tires from the factory ).... All Spyders past and present come equipped with DOT specified " J " type rims / wheels, according to Fed DOT rules this is auto type rim / wheel ..... Mike :thumbup:

[sKiZo]

Actually if the spyder still has OEM - Kenda tires it could very well be the tires ..... " new " means nothing when it comes to Kenda tires .... this brand has the worst " Defective tire " record of any tire manufacturer I have ever known ..... Mike :thumbup:

You've obviously never used Metzeler ... <G>

I'll qualify that. They had some serious quality issues when they moved production to Argentina. Not sure if things have improved ... I haven't run them since these cracked all to hell with a thousand miles on them ...

http://www.brainfartz.com/images/Royal%20Star/mettzler-cracks.jpg

[sKiZo]

......
Another problem I don't see mentioned is ROAD SURFACE! The roads in MANY areas in this country are engineered to allow rain water to run off to the sides so they are crowned or canted and this causes WANDERING to some extent. A person tends to fight wandering and when the Spyder does so it's a bit disconcerting for sure. I experienced this frequently on the Rural roads of SW Missouri--64836.......

One advantage to running a sidecar rig. You can adjust the alignment to compensate for whatever the average crown is for your area.



....It took me maybe 10 miles to feel 90% comfortable and to lose my preconceived fears of 3 wheels, due to untold miles of touring and riding motorcycles.....


Still haven't gotten "comfortable" on my Ural, and I figure that's a good thing. It works in strange and mysterious ways. <G>

[Cruzr Joe]

change the music???? :shemademe_smilie:

[Cirhere]

thanks for all the helpful input guys

[ozarkryder]

Better tires and the Bajaron HD sway bar are both positive mods/additions. I did Federals and a couple weeks later the sway bar, and both were noticeable incremental improvements.
++ on both the mods. I am still on the original tires. Being - um - frugal, I will wear out the current tires. I live in the Ozarks, not much of a straight road around here. After I got very acquainted with the RTL's idiosyncrasies, I got the sway bar. Stopped the feeling that the trike was trying to throw me off to the outside on curves.

[Snoking1127]

Remember Kenda roots are in bicycle tires. Our 2005 29' 5th wheel came with Kenda LT235/85R16E china bombs and in the first year they gave me 110 each to remove and destroy all five tires because of high failure rate.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Probably not a tire issue on a year old bike but once your tires wear out (or maybe before they do), a set of car tires is supposed to be the bees knees.
I'll take exception to that assertion. I had my RT laser aligned by Squared Away at Spyderfest in 2016. I had just over 3000 miles on it. I immediately took it out for a test ryde on the local Interstate. The bike pulled to the right so I went back and had Joe double check the alignment. It was dead on. I continued to ride it for another 10k miles, always fighting the constant pull to the right. Finally, at 13k miles at the start of the 2017 season I'd had enough and replaced the Kendas with Continental Pro Contis. The pull to the right disappeared right off and has not returned in 20k miles since. So I'm in the camp with Mike that from the factory the Kendas can be a problem. Now, in contrast, the Kendas on my 2013 RT were wearing and tracking nicely at 25k miles when I sold it.

[Snoking1127]

Here are the balance weights on the OEM Kendas! The rear Kenda has a lot of balance weights on it also. The Federal up front have no weights and run smooth.

[Olddude39]

Don't hang me but I test drove one last year kinda liked it so bought a 2020 RTL in January
I finally got to put several miles on it today My first impression is
IT WOBBLES DOWN THE ROAD seems like I am fighting it to stay in a straight line
anyone else think this

I picked up a new Spyder RTL in June of this year and what you are describing is exactly what I was very concerned about. I talked to a guy that had an pre-2020 Spyder RT and we started talking about this issue. He promptly informed me that you must get a laser alignment done or the problem will never go away. The factory only does a frame alignment which does not align the wheels correctly. I started doing some research and found that all Spyders from Can-Am are are out of alignment from the factory. So I demanded from the selling dealer that I wanted a correct alignment. Incidentally, the drive belt sat right on the inner flange. They scheduled me and and did the laser alignment..The mechanic wrote on the shop ticket.."Alignment is spot on". Low and behold, now my RTL tracks straight down the road. Incidentally, the drive belt on my unit now sits about 1/8 inch off the inner wheel flange. There some dealers that will do a laser alignment before they deliver a new Spyder but most don't. All dealers should but they figure that's an extra cost they don't want to absorb. Your dealer might not even do laser alignments but you should ask and if they do demand they do it. If they don't find someone that does and get it done even if you have to pay out of pocket. Can-Am now even recommends it be done. Makes one wonder for the money they sell this machine for why don't they do it. Hope this helps.

[Olddude39]

Bombardier should be sued for putting on such junk tires!! High dollar machine and junk tires.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Bombardier should be sued for putting on such junk tires!! High dollar machine and junk tires.
Keep in mind that when the Spyder was introduced in 2007 no one knew how many would be sold. BRP had to search for a manufacturer who would supply tires made specifically for the Spyder. I'm guessing Kenda was the only one willing to take the gamble back then. You know the old adage, "Beggars can't be choosy!" Look back through some of my previous posts about tires to see what the main reason is, I believe, that BRP never installed car tires as OEM.

Junk is an excessively harsh term to use. The fronts generally have been fairly decent tires providing decent tread wear but with a somewhat high percentage of defective ones. It's a good question why BRP and Kenda haven't done more to give the rears better tread life. They're not the best tires by any means, but they aren't junk tires either. If they were there would have been many lawsuits already in the past 14 years.

Oh, and a point of clarification. The company is BRP, not Bombardier. BRP was the recreational products division of Bombardier years ago but was sold off as it's own company. Bombardier makes jets and trains.

[beerandchips]

New rider. I happens to all of us when we first start riding one. Took be about 300 miles to go from 2 to 3 wheels and ride in a straight line. Like most are saying, don't fight it.