Purge Valve - Permanent Fix

[DragonSpyder]

If we plug the hose and problem is solved. What is the permanent fix for this issue? My dealer is not going to know what to do so going to them is of no use.

[Lamonster]

Here's your options as I see it.

Now that you know this fixed the problem you can-

A- Let the dealer look at it and determine if it's a stuck valve or a software problem. If it's a stuck valve they can replace it. If the valve is fine then you'll need the new software update that should be out in a week or so.

B- Do like many of us have done and that is remove the evap can and route the vent from the tank to another location and leave the purge valve plugged.

At one time the only State that had a evap can or pair valves was CA. This is a epa thing and will not effect how the Spyder runs. I would recomed option A first.

[nudle]

Thanks Lamont:cheers:

[barb36jack31]

I did the isolate the cannister trick yesterday. Left the purge valve connected but plugged the hose leaving the purge valve. Bike runs like a scalded cat, no hesitation or surging and seems to be running somewhat cooler. In any event I am a very Happy Spyder Owner. I am going to leave it like it is. The less I have my bike at the tender mercies of the dealer, the better I like it.

I have about 3 mos.left on my warranty, so I wil be on my own before long.

PE# 600

Thanks to Lamonster and all the others for scoping out the problem and coming up with the fix!

[Tripod]

Here's your options as I see it.

Now that you know this fixed the problem you can-

A- Let the dealer look at it and determine if it's a stuck valve or a software problem. If it's a stuck valve they can replace it. If the valve is fine then you'll need the new software update that should be out in a week or so.

B- Do like many of us have done and that is remove the evap can and route the vent from the tank to another location and leave the purge valve plugged.

At one time the only State that had a evap can or pair valves was CA. This is a epa thing and will not effect how the Spyder runs. I would recomed option A first.

Hey Lamont,

Greetings from the left coast.

If you're up for it. How about a How To - Step by Step of item B for us less adept.

Tripod :joke:

[burg650]

Today was the first I had a chance to ride my Spyder since I did the software update, been reading about the missing and hesitation and yes it has happen to me. After about a 50 mile ride all highway I hit traffic and it was stop and go for the next 10 miles and never got out of 2nd and it was missing so much I thought it was going to stall (never had this problem till software). I have been reading the by pass valve fix but is it not just a mask for the problem, Lamonster you say a software fix is on the way and if so I guess I will wait for it.

[Putt-Putt]

Thanks Lamont:cheers:


Ditto :2thumbs:

[BajaRon]

Today was the first I had a chance to ride my Spyder since I did the software update, been reading about the missing and hesitation and yes it has happen to me. After about a 50 mile ride all highway I hit traffic and it was stop and go for the next 10 miles and never got out of 2nd and it was missing so much I thought it was going to stall (never had this problem till software). I have been reading the by pass valve fix but is it not just a mask for the problem, Lamonster you say a software fix is on the way and if so I guess I will wait for it.

No, eliminating the Purge Valve eliminates the problem. It is not a patch or bandaid. It is a permanante fix and you don't have to wait and hope for a new update that may or may not do the trick.

[Tripod]

No, eliminating the Purge Valve eliminates the problem. It is not a patch or bandaid. It is a permanante fix and you don't have to wait and hope for a new update that may or may not do the trick.

I need some help here. I've read that you shouldn't disconnect the purge valve (electrics), that will make it throw off error message. You say it should be "eliminated". Some eliminate the canister and some run hoses down and back. Is there anyone who can give an easy instructional? I have an SE5 if that matter. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Tripod :joke:

[Dragonrider]

The canisterectomy plugs the line, but the valve is still there and "working".

[Tripod]

The canisterectomy plugs the line, but the valve is still there and "working".

See, here lies the problem. If there is a line of some sort going into the purge valve, that's one thing. Then there is a line that some suggest you put a bolt into to block it. Some talk of running lines to the rear and bottom. When you say the "canisterectomy plugs the line"...that doesn't explain the procedure to me. I appreciate your input...perhaps you think I know more that I really do. What I need is an explanation similar to the ones found in the Step by Step section of the forum. I'm usually savvy about this stuff, I guess I'm having trouble with the vernacular.

Thanks again,

Tripod :joke:

[Lamonster]

YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.

[spyderwoman]

crap! pinched off the valve with clamp. she ran like a dream in the morning, on the way home she started the same junk again. we put a manual switch on the fan so she never got over 4 bars either. it started backfiring, surging, etc....so now what? i'm probably the first the "fix" didn't work for. i even asked my hubby if he clamped off the right valve-:shocked: he wasn't too happy about that- he had- anyway does it take time to work or should it be right away?

[Cliff-Co.]

mine also runs like crap, since re-call, purge valve, plugged, or un-plugged no difference, my dealer already done 16, before mine ??? & no problems, just mine, ??? guess it's called the luck of the draw !!! :chat:

[bjt]

See, here lies the problem. If there is a line of some sort going into the purge valve, that's one thing. Then there is a line that some suggest you put a bolt into to block it. Some talk of running lines to the rear and bottom. When you say the "canisterectomy plugs the line"...that doesn't explain the procedure to me. I appreciate your input...perhaps you think I know more that I really do. What I need is an explanation similar to the ones found in the Step by Step section of the forum. I'm usually savvy about this stuff, I guess I'm having trouble with the vernacular.

Thanks again,

Tripod :joke:

There are two separate hoses they are talking about. One comes from the fuel tank that goes to the canister. That hose is the one that people are extending to the rear of the Spyder so that any raw gas or fumes that are coming out of the gas tank now are vented to atmosphere at the rear of the Spyder where you won't smell it. The second hose goes from the canister to the purge valve and continues on to the Rotax. That hose is the one that is supposed to get plugged, leaving the purge valve connected. A third hose on the canister is a short hose that vents the canister to atmosphere and that is eliminated when you remove your canister. The first two lines you talk about in your post (in bold text) are the same line.

[Lamonster]

crap! pinched off the valve with clamp. she ran like a dream in the morning, on the way home she started the same junk again. we put a manual switch on the fan so she never got over 4 bars either. it started backfiring, surging, etc....so now what? i'm probably the first the "fix" didn't work for. i even asked my hubby if he clamped off the right valve-:shocked: he wasn't too happy about that- he had- anyway does it take time to work or should it be right away?

My guess is the clamp is leaking, I would use a bolt.

[Some Guy]

I did this mod to my Spyder yesterday and rode a couple hundred miles...BIG IMPROVEMENT! :ohyea:

[Tripod]

There are two separate hoses they are talking about. One comes from the fuel tank that goes to the canister. That hose is the one that people are extending to the rear of the Spyder so that any raw gas or fumes that are coming out of the gas tank now are vented to atmosphere at the rear of the Spyder where you won't smell it. The second hose goes from the canister to the purge valve and continues on to the Rotax. That hose is the one that is supposed to get plugged, leaving the purge valve connected. A third hose on the canister is a short hose that vents the canister to atmosphere and that is eliminated when you remove your canister. The first two lines you talk about in your post (in bold text) are the same line.

BJT,

Thank you...it makes sense to me now. One last question. Could one do the alterations and leave the canister in place so it could be returned to the stock configuration before returning to the stealership for recalls, updates, etc. ??

Tripod :joke:

[nudle]

:2thumbs: Yes

[bjt]

BJT,

Thank you...it makes sense to me now. One last question. Could one do the alterations and leave the canister in place so it could be returned to the stock configuration before returning to the stealership for recalls, updates, etc. ??

Tripod :joke:


:2thumbs: Yes

What he said.... :D

Yes the canister can stay in place.

[steven888]

All I did was put a bolt in the canister hose and the more I drove the better it ran. Now it runs awsome. no more sputter/surge or hesitation. I can take off with the bike cold just after starting it. It truly worked. Why would I want to do another update? When it runs better than ever. Thanks to everyone for the great info. Remember it is the hose that runs vertical on the right side. Not the one that run horizontal under the seat.
:2thumbs:

[sylblk]

strongly recommend to use an inline fuel filter at the end of vent line, remember that air must enter line as gas level drops in tank or as temperature drops and fuel contracts. spiders and other insects love empty pipes and may nest plugging the vent. fuel pumps are strong enough to collapse tank...no warranty...

[Putt-Putt]

strongly recommend to use an inline fuel filter at the end of vent line, remember that air must enter line as gas level drops in tank or as temperature drops and fuel contracts. spiders and other insects love empty pipes and may nest plugging the vent. fuel pumps are strong enough to collapse tank...no warranty...

Good point!

[lightman02]

You can check the purge valve operation yourself. Just disconnect the plug and put 12volts dc (from the battery or any other 12v dc source) on the leads of the valve itself (one positive and one negative) when you apply the voltage you were here the valve closing and remove the voltage you will here it open as its spring loaded. If you don't hear that click of the valve opening and closing you prob have a bad valve. All a purge valve is, is a solenoid with a plunger attched to it.

[NancysToy]

You can check the purge valve operation yourself. Just disconnect the plug and put 12volts dc (from the battery or any other 12v dc source) on the leads of the valve itself (one positive and one negative) when you apply the voltage you were here the valve closing and remove the voltage you will here it open as its spring loaded. If you don't hear that click of the valve opening and closing you prob have a bad valve. All a purge valve is, is a solenoid with a plunger attched to it.
This only tests the solenoid coil activation. A vacuum test is also necessary. The purge valve should not leak down with vacuum on the discharge side, until it is activated. Then the vacuum should be released. Failure to do either means a bad purge valve.

[Don in E Texas]

strongly recommend to use an inline fuel filter at the end of vent line, remember that air must enter line as gas level drops in tank or as temperature drops and fuel contracts. spiders and other insects love empty pipes and may nest plugging the vent. fuel pumps are strong enough to collapse tank...no warranty...

An inline fuel filter would have an open end just as the hose has. Might just need a fine mesh screen material secured to the open end of the hose to keep critters out.

I was thinking about removing the hose from the canister that goes to the valve and inserting a bolt/hose clamp -- and running a new hose from the canister to some place under the bike --- thus leaving the canister in place and the hose from the fuel tank in place as well. Would this be satisfactory, or should I just remove the two hoses from the canister as already suggested?

don

[Dudley]

If we plug the hose and problem is solved. What is the permanent fix for this issue? My dealer is not going to know what to do so going to them is of no use.

I plugged the valve and the Spyder runs so much better, this will probably be my permanent fix. It has more smoothness all around, more power in 5th gear, etc. Just seems like a different Spyder.

[JimAlpha]

Dittoes on the purge valve fix. Runs great! Thanks to all.:clap:

[effgjamis]

If you are wanting to replace the Puge Valve, here is the Part Number 709000108 ... My dealer wants 42.49 plus tax and doesn't have one in stock, Maybe 7-15 days to get one. Also I think the price is a bit pricy.

I am going to release the pinched hose from the throttle body and pull the hose from the Evap Can going to the Purge Valve and put a bolt in it.. that would be a better closure as recommened my Lamonster ( Thanks Lamont)

I am still waiting for the update FIX... and it is Sept 15 and almost 2.5 months since the update. Oh well I guess BRP engineers have senior moments as I. It does seem awful strange that as many complaints as BRP has or apparently have received that a fix would be top priority on their list.

Oh well.. Gatlinburg here I come.

[BLACK WIDOW]

I decided to take my purge tank off, plug the hose on the tank side of the purge valve, and reroute the tank vent hose. I don't know that I was having any trouble before, but it just seemed like a logical thing to do. Maybe it will save me some problems later.nojoke


Michael:doorag:

[DragonSpyder]

I'm curious where everyone is routing the vent hose. I have mine routed across the swingarm and coming out next to the belt guard (below rear foot pegs). Looks kinda silly but it does work.

[Pilo]

I'm curious where everyone is routing the vent hose. I have mine routed across the swingarm and coming out next to the belt guard (below rear foot pegs). Looks kinda silly but it does work.

Check my routing up to the rear axle.

Tried to hide the tip behind the rear fender bracket, but due to a storage kink, the hose always jumps out of its hiding place.

Cheers...

[BLACK WIDOW]

I'm curious where everyone is routing the vent hose. I have mine routed across the swingarm and coming out next to the belt guard (below rear foot pegs). Looks kinda silly but it does work.

I actually ran mine forward and came out just to the right bottom side of the radiator. There are some holes already there for the hose to exit and can be secured with zip ties. Seems to work fine. BTW I used a faucet strainer washer with a fine stainless screen on the end of the hose and secured it with silicone rubber. :f_spider:


Michael:doorag:

[Latemarch]

I actually ran mine forward and came out just to the right bottom side of the radiator. There are some holes already there for the hose to exit and can be secured with zip ties. Seems to work fine. BTW I used a faucet strainer washer with a fine stainless screen on the end of the hose and secured it with silicone rubber. :f_spider:


Michael:doorag:

Forward was my solution as well.

No problems or smell.:D

[jabba11]

Well after much delibertion I decided to plug mine today too. I havent had nearly as much coughin and spitting as others but there have been a few times especially in stop and go driving (even in cool weather and I shudder to think what it would have bene like if it were hot becasue that seems to make it much worse) where it was a huge issue. I have only driven it a few miles but I CAN feel a difference in the way it is running. With this much evidence obviously there is an issue here and I am suprised there isn't more of a reponse from BRP.

[Pilo]

I actually ran mine forward and came out just to the right bottom side of the radiator. There are some holes already there for the hose to exit and can be secured with zip ties. Seems to work fine. BTW I used a faucet strainer washer with a fine stainless screen on the end of the hose and secured it with silicone rubber. :f_spider:


Michael:doorag:

Mike:

I like your idea of using the faucet strainer, and it seems that I already found use for one (surplus from a recent kitchen revamp) that has been kicked around the house.

Could you post any pics so as to see how did you make that arrangement at the hose tip?

Thanks and regards

Pilo

[BLACK WIDOW]

[quote=Pilo;143862]Mike:

I like your idea of using the faucet strainer, and it seems that I already found use for one (surplus from a recent kitchen revamp) that has been kicked around the house.

Could you post any pics so as to see how did you make that arrangement at the hose tip?

Thanks and regards

Pilo[/quote

I must apologize for the poor picture quality, but not a good photography angle, laying on my back.nojoke I think you will get the idea, its just the 1/4'' hose end slightly is the washer and sealed with silicone rubber. It seems very sturdy and will surely keep the vermin out.:D
Hope this will help.


Michael:doorag:

[Pilo]

[quote=Pilo;143862]

Mike:

I like your idea of using the faucet strainer, and it seems that I already found use for one (surplus from a recent kitchen revamp) that has been kicked around the house.

Could you post any pics so as to see how did you make that arrangement at the hose tip?

Thanks and regards

Pilo[/quote

I must apologize for the poor picture quality, but not a good photography angle, laying on my back.nojoke I think you will get the idea, its just the 1/4'' hose end slightly is the washer and sealed with silicone rubber. It seems very sturdy and will surely keep the vermin out.:D
Hope this will help.


Michael:doorag:

Mike:

I must apologize for making you lie on your back; I thought you had taken some pics during installation.

My strainer is of a different sort, but I am sure that I will come up with something practical and economical.

I think I'll only use one ss screen.

Gracias y saludos, Pilo

[DragonSpyder]

I would rather route mine in the front like you have done but am a bit concerned about the fuel dripping out while riding and being blown back in the exhaust area. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

[Latemarch]

I would rather route mine in the front like you have done but am a bit concerned about the fuel dripping out while riding and being blown back in the exhaust area. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

:agree:You're being paranoid :D

There can't be more than a drip or two coming out of that hose which is totaly insignificant while you're riding.

[BLACK WIDOW]

:agree:You're being paranoid :D

There can't be more than a drip or two coming out of that hose which is totaly insignificant while you're riding.

:agree:

Michael:doorag:

[Don in E Texas]

This mod works!:thumbup:
Thanks for all the great information presented here on the surge problem. Last week I did the 'fix' - but with all the rain we've been having (17" in a week) I was not able to ride until today. Put about 130 miles on the bike and put it through its paces. Fast - slow - various gears. Could not get the bike to spit/sputter/surge. Runs better than new...:2thumbs:

Vent hose is running towards the front, right, side just as Michael has described so well.

don

[effgjamis]

Just a question.... If the Hose from the Gas Tank is routed to front or back without a pea-trap would it not, gas upon fill up full cause a siffon??

Just curiour.

[NancysToy]

Just a question.... If the Hose from the Gas Tank is routed to front or back without a pea-trap would it not, gas upon fill up full cause a siffon??

Just curiour.
Not unless every inch of the gas tank was full. Even then, as soon as the gas was low enough to build a vacuum in the tank, the siphon would stop, since the would be no vent to equalize the pressure.. What you are worried about would only be possible if the vent hose went to the bottom of the tank instead of the top, and the was another vent to atmosphere.

[Latemarch]

Just a question.... If the Hose from the Gas Tank is routed to front or back without a pea-trap would it not, gas upon fill up full cause a siffon??

Just curiour.

And there's a roll-over valve there at the top of the tank that plugs the vent line if liquid fuel hits it.
Even going over bumps with a full tank should not let more than a few drops out of the tank.

[swrafey2000]

I plugged the hose coming out of the purge valve going to the canister and then made a short piece of hose with a plug in it and put it where the purge valve line would go on the canister.The fuel tank still vents through the canister to outside air.

[Pilo]

I plugged the hose coming out of the purge valve going to the canister and then made a short piece of hose with a plug in it and put it where the purge valve line would go on the canister.The fuel tank still vents through the canister to outside air.

The way I see it (and I may be wrong...), you did away with one problem, but the gas smell will continue, unless you get rid of the canister...

I thought about doing exactly what you described, but had second thoughts with regards to the gas smell.

I am going to do the whole 'canisterectomy' on my SE5 shortly. :doorag:

Saludos, Pilo

[zztop69]

this fix will work on the RTS too, correct? I have the smell of gas while riding and parked in garage also

Thanks

[H. Rombold]

Would any of the aforementioned cause a p1174 code ? Got a 13 St Limited puking this code at me . Checked the MAPS hoses , all good and even did a vacuum test on the disconnected hoses .