Need Exhaust Help.... how can I get a better tone?

[Matahead]

We just brought home a 2017 F3-LTD Chrome. The exhaust pipe has black tip and heat shields. Our ST-S had Akrapovic slip-on. (Silencer)

In my opinion the tip & heatshields should be chrome. I found a set of chrome tip & shield for RTs 2018 & prior. Are the muffler canisters the same between RT & F3?

To get more tone from the exhaust, I've been considering drilling out the end of the muffler canister. In the old days we'd use a 12" long 3/8" drill bit to get a little more noise from the machine. I'm thinking, remove the tip, and drill out the turn down tips and open the canister out. I just can't see throwing 12-15 hundred dollars at a slip on muffler.

As I write this, the idea of using previously used aftermarket slip-ons to create a chrome alternate noise suppressor. I'd love to hear of any unconventional alternatives that others have found successful... Or Unsuccessful.

Thanks,
Thom

[Peter Aawen]

Yes, the muffler cannisters on the Ltd's are the same, so the tips are interchangeable. :thumbup:

But those 'turn down tips' the chrome or black trims covers fit over are just the ends of quite curved pipes that are a couple of feet long and that run all the way up to the front end of the muffler box thru 1 (or is it 2?) glass packed 'walls/baffles' that are welded in place across the guts of the muffler box, so drilling the tips out like we all used to on older style mufflers REALLY won't work too well at all - you'll get more noise if you do, sure, but it'll be at the cost of savagely butchering the muffler & probably looking really ugly where those curved pipes grabbed the straight drill bit & ended up thrashing around inside - as well as not doing all that much for the engine's performance either! :shocked:

But if you take the tip trims off the muffler, you should be able to see a weld running around the end of the muffler box - if you truly want to 'clean out' the inside of the muffler itself, you'll need to cut that end off about an inch forward of the weld; then cut out the curving pipes &/or at least one of the baffles & glass packed internal 'walls' inside the outer muffler casing; then you can weld the entire OE end of the muffler back on, maybe even with it's original curved pipe outlets, so that it LOOKS completely stock, but you won't have the extra couple of feet in each small pipe inside &/or the glass packed baffles between the two noise restricting chambers inside the muffler casing between the outlet from the Cat/Cat eliminator under the Spyder & the twin curvy pipe outlets on the other end!! And THAT will make your Spyder 1330 not only run a bit better cos it's getting the exhaust out a tad free-er, it'll also sound a WHOLE LOT less like an over-revving sewing machine!! :2thumbs:

However, if you simply want a better tone & maybe a little better mid range response, just toss the primary muffler entirely & fit what you'll see referred to here as a Cat Delete or a Cat eliminator - your Spyder will lose a little weight; lose the 'massively heat producing' lump that's installed between your feet; get what most consider to be a 'better' exhaust note without excessive noise; most likely get better mid range response too; and you get all that for about half the price if not more than one of the expensive 'approved' slip-ons.... altho you might be one of the few unlucky owners who also lose a barely measurable amount of 'off idle' pick-up that is more than regained thru the mid-range (where most of us ryde most often) :rolleyes:

But if you really want more power &/or performance, then you should not only fit the Cat Eliminator but also get your ECU Upgraded - if you do that, you can get better power right across the rev range AND if you can resist the temptation to twist the throttle hard ALL the time, then you'll probably get better 'less than 75ish mph touring speed fuel economy' too! :ohyea:

[fatboy]

rls cat delete with baffle

[Mazo EMS2]

RLS Exhaust will set you up.

[Matahead]

Peter, You bring up some good information and good ideas. I had not been thinking of going to a "Stage 1" But,following my original thoughts I could hinder that end. Re thinking the problem, I found an economical cat delete pipe. The intake and exhaust could both be liberated and tuner added. I also recall that EPA requires the US destined equipment to run Very Lean. I think what I will need to do is set up a structured plan to liberate/free up, the exhaust, then add a tuner, as I simultaneously open up the intake.

Thanks,

[2dogs]

Mataheadyes on everything Peter said. Some time ago someone did to their stock muffler what you were (are) thinking about doing. When he finished opening up his OEM muffler he took a picture of it and posted it on this site. When I saw the photo of the muffler all taken apart I thought to myself, I ain't gonna do that! So, I bought a TwoBrothers and after 1/2 hour of riding on top of that thing, you can't hear anything. Now I have the cat delete with stock muffler and as soon as my warranty is up I'm definitely going with stage 2. Currently, stage 2 with the cat delete is the best bang for the buck and requires the least amount of hassle to install.

[Matahead]

Mataheadyes on everything Peter said. Some time ago someone did to their stock muffler what you were (are) thinking about doing. When he finished opening up his OEM muffler he took a picture of it and posted it on this site. When I saw the photo of the muffler all taken apart I thought to myself, I ain't gonna do that! So, I bought a TwoBrothers and after 1/2 hour of riding on top of that thing, you can't hear anything. Now I have the cat delete with stock muffler and as soon as my warranty is up I'm definitely going with stage 2. Currently, stage 2 with the cat delete is the best bang for the buck and requires the least amount of hassle to install.

Ordered the Cat Delete & Chrome trim today.... Re: Stage 2, I didn't know anybody offered cams for 990 or 1330s.

[Peter Aawen]

Stage 2 is referring to a 'bit more than mild' ECU Upgrade! :ohyea:

Our Spyders/Rykers all leave the factory SIGNIFICANTLY de-tuned, and putting out somewhat lesser performance figures than these same engines are released from the factory providing in other platforms. :sour: So while a Stage 1 ECU upgrade is really only removing a few of the 'little niggles' & minor throttle body restrictions that we end up with due to that factory de-tuning, making them smoother & more responsive without really lifting the ridiculously low rev limits or upping the power & torque outputs a great deal; a Stage 2 ECU upgrade generally goes further, lifts the rev limits a little too, & also releases somewhat more of the power & torque restrictions, bringing your Spyder/Ryker much closer to what it SHOULD have been when it left the factory - but these Stage 2 ECU Upgrades DO NEED improvements to the air flow IN as well as improvements to free up the exhaust and get more of that OUT in order to avoid choking the engine on its own exhaust... and this is all done via the ECU, with no need for cam changes or valve enlargements!!! And even then, the engines aren't ANYWHERE NEAR the upper limits of the power & torque outputs they reliably put out in some other platforms!! So just imagine what you CAN do if you're brave enough?!? :shocked:

Enjoy! :thumbup:

[Matahead]

UPDATE: I have installed the Cat Delete pipe with a half baffle. it only took about 30 minutes. Earlier, a member sent me a video without any baffles. The sound is just about right. Momma is happy.
Stage definitions, as I know them in the US.
Stage 1 - Improved intake and exhaust. Originally, this required Re-Jetting the carburetor. Now, the Air/Fuel mix can be modified with a tuner or a programmable ECU.
Stage II - Above with addition of cams, which usually requires adjustment of Stage one settings.
Stage III - Above with cleaning/polishing of intake manifold & heads.
Stage IV - Above with increase of displacement, usually bore, may include bore & stroke.

[MONK]

According to Shawn Smoak, the F3T/L and RT mufflers are interchangable but the F3T/L unit gives a slightly deeper sound. I wouldn't mind finding a good condition F3T/L (black) muffler just to see if this is really true.

[Peter Aawen]

.....
Stage definitions, as I know them in the US.
Stage 1 - Improved intake and exhaust. Originally, this required Re-Jetting the carburetor. Now, the Air/Fuel mix can be modified with a tuner or a programmable ECU.
Stage II - Above with addition of cams, which usually requires adjustment of Stage one settings.
Stage III - Above with cleaning/polishing of intake manifold & heads.
Stage IV - Above with increase of displacement, usually bore, may include bore & stroke.

No cams necessary when you are talking about ECU Upgrades ;) - Internationally (& recognising that I am 'paraphrasing' a little here):

Stage 1 ECU Upgrade is a 'mild performance upgrade aimed at removing/minimising any factory imposed or inherent tuning issues &/or hestitations etc'; while a

Stage 2 ECU Upgrade is a 'significant performance upgrade above & beyond Stage 1, with lifted rev limits & significant changes to fuel mapping, power, & torque outputs - all achieved by upgrading the tune thru the ECU'

:ohyea: