View Full Version : Tranny Slipping? Or is it just the oil?
I have the semi auto tranny in our 2019 Rt... using Lamonster's oil
I noticed a couple time now when out on a ride the RPM's will rise about a 100 for a second or so....with no change in throttle position....almost sounds like the tranny is slipping. Doesn't do it consistently, just a few times this summer.
Ever hear of this....thoughts?
Thanks for your time and help!!
PW
I got to thinking....last year I used the factory Can Am oil and never had this happen....Now this year with this oil, I'd say this has happened 15-20 times.....Could it be the oil?
Mikey
10-25-2020, 06:38 PM
Was it slipping on the start of the ride, was the tranny cold?
About 5-6 miles into the ride....my guess
Mikey
10-25-2020, 07:01 PM
After it warmed up did it slip? I have heard of some slippage going on, when the tranny was not warmed up! I would find it hard to believe that Lamounts oil is the cause, but that's just my thoughts!
I would agree about LaMonsters oil, I'm sure it's good stuff.
It's just odd it never slipped once in 5,000 miles last year (factory oil) and now this year it has with his oil.
Just trying to figure things out.
Navydad
10-25-2020, 07:42 PM
I would do an oil and filter change back to what you were using before and see what happens. Gonna cost a bit of money, but if the issue clears up you have your answer. If the issue continues you know to research further.
Kind of what I was thinking....Just seeing if anyone else had an issue with slippage, ever.
I just bought lamonsters oil. Haven't changed it yet. Will only be going for a short ride after since it will be going in storage for the winter. I will keep and eye on this next season.
ulflyer
10-26-2020, 05:45 AM
Kind of what I was thinking....Just seeing if anyone else had an issue with slippage, ever.
No need to change filter; what little oil remains after a drain in wouldn't fill half a tea cup.
jcthorne
10-26-2020, 08:03 AM
Check your oil pressure. This is exactly what my F3 was doing before the oil pump failed and the engine blew. The HCM is highly dependent on oil pressure to maintain clutch plate pressure.
How do I check oil pressure....take to dealer?
jcthorne
10-27-2020, 11:48 AM
How do I check oil pressure....take to dealer?
Please don't take this the wrong way but if you are asking the question, the dealer is the answer.
You have to remove the oil sending unit that is on the engine and install a pressure gauge. Than you can see what the pressure is while riding and see if there is any loss in pressure at all rpms.
jcoats1
10-27-2020, 01:51 PM
I have the semi auto tranny in our 2019 Rt... using Lamonster's oil
I noticed a couple time now when out on a ride the RPM's will rise about a 100 for a second or so....with no change in throttle position....almost sounds like the tranny is slipping. Doesn't do it consistently, just a few times this summer.
Ever hear of this....thoughts?
Thanks for your time and help!!
PW
There is nothing in the tranny that can slip..... maybe the clutch?
Wishful thinking it was the oil!
Did an oil Change and took it for a ride today.....Same thing, slips is 6th gear.
Off to the dealer tomorrow to see what they say. I would imagine it's going to be there for quite sometime.
Quick question, is the engine and tranny one unit.... I mean if they end up replacing the tranny would they have replace the whole engine too? Good thing I'm still under warranty for a couple months yet.....but we did opt for the BEST warranty when we bought it new for this reason...
P.W.
Yes engine and tranny is all together. It can be fixed if there is a problem.
Okay thanks for the info.!
There is something in the tranny slipping for sure. I just hope the engine isn't being starved for oil pressure too.
I would like think a "idiot" light would come on if the engine oil pressure drops to low..... That's never happened.
Flamewinger
03-12-2021, 08:56 PM
Just outta curiosity, do you let off the gas when shifting? You shouldn't.
Nope.... always shift under power.
spyder01
03-13-2021, 09:31 AM
Couple of points if I may,1,Lamonster sells factory oil,2,spyders use a standard type motorcycle engine which they then designed a electronic shifting and clutching system for.The system is built into the clutch cover which can be taken off the side of the eng.Inside this cover is a oil pump strictly for the clutch,it uses eng oil to apply or release the clutch plates as directed by the computer.There are variuos sensors to let the comp know if the clutch did what was directed and also to know if the trans shifted into the correct gear it was told to.Im wondering if your eng is actually reving up or is the tach just telling you it is,but im sure you could tell that by the sound.If it is reving up while under a steady cruise then your clutch is slipping not the trans,thats not possible.You could have a number of problems that could cause a momentary loss of apply pressure,but the sensors are there to record these type events and the dealer can hook up their scanner and watch the goings on while driving but it would have to act up for them.Its possible that it may have set a trouble code or a pending code which may only be visible to a factory scan tool(buds unit I think its called).They're is also a filter on the side of the clutch cover that gets changed at 28k,I doubt if thats even a possibility,but if the clutch is coming apart or anything else in the trans the evidence will be in the filter.All this info starts on page 185 of the gearbox section of the factory manual.Let us know what happens please.
BajaRon
03-13-2021, 12:56 PM
I would be interested in what oil you used when the problem started. You say you switched from the BRP oil to something else. The reason I ask is that once the clutch starts slipping, it's toast. Changing oil will not fix the problem. So, it is possible that the oil WAS the problem. But no longer the solution.
I would be interested in what oil you used when the problem started. You say you switched from the BRP oil to something else. The reason I ask is that once the clutch starts slipping, it's toast. Changing oil will not fix the problem. So, it is possible that the oil WAS the problem. But no longer the solution.
He was using Brp factory oil. No problem. Then used lamonsters spectral and started slipping. I was using factory brp oil. And just changed to lamonsters last fall. So will be riding soon. Hope I do not get this issue.
BajaRon
03-13-2021, 01:49 PM
He was using Brp factory oil. No problem. Then used lamonsters spectral and started slipping. I was using factory brp oil. And just changed to lamonsters last fall. So will be riding soon. Hope I do not get this issue.
OK, maybe I missed that information along the way. I don't think it would be the Lamonster oil. So, we can probably take this off the table as a possible cause. The SE5 clutch is pretty bullet proof and will last a very long time as long as it is treated right and there are no component failures, of course. Always good to know the cause, if possible.
OK, maybe I missed that information along the way. I don't think it would be the Lamonster oil. So, we can probably take this off the table as a possible cause. The SE5 clutch is pretty bullet proof and will last a very long time as long as it is treated right and there are no component failures, of course. Shifting at too low an RPM on an SE5 is also a common way to destroy the clutch. But there are other possibilities. Always good to know the cause, if possible.
Ron it is a 2019 RT se6.
BajaRon
03-13-2021, 02:54 PM
Ron it is a 2019 RT se6.
Definitely off my game today! Thank you for the correction. Even less likely that the oil was the problem as the SE6 clutch is much more forgiving than the SE5. Sounds like a component failure is more likely going to be the culpret.
Today it started slipping in 5th gear on almost any hill.... flat ground with hardly any load on the clutches it was fine.
But I need to get this figured out before we start towing our Freedom trailer we just bought because that will destroy it for sure.
Anyway.... It Will be a few weeks before the dealer can get it in to look at it but I'll be sure to let you guy's know what they found out....
Possible
03-13-2021, 05:44 PM
If it were mine, I wouldn't ride it anymore until it's fixed.
I just got back from my first 70 mile ride with new Lamonster oil in my 2018 F3L. It ran great. Shifted smoother than with brp oil. No problem with his oil. I think something is broken in your clutch. Probably a spring or something that keeps pressure on the plates. Is there another dealer near you that can look at it sooner. Glad I have 3 can am dealers within 40 miles from me.
The dealer we went to today was about 140 miles away.... went there because we bought a 2015 Freedom trailer from them a few weeks back. While we're there to pick the trailer up, they can look at the tranny/clutches at the same time.
If I had to guess it's going to be a while before we get it back....
JP58,
Thanks for letting me know how you made out with the new oil in your engine!.... I see your from WI.
We took the bike in for repairs today to Twobrothers powersports in Onalaska WI.
Pw. A friend and I went to Spyder Spin event that Two brothers powersports puts on every year at the end of May. It's a small event. I think 50 spyder riders showed up for the Saturday ride.
Maybe we'll go on that ride...that would be fun! Just hope our Spyder is ready by then. I just have a gut feeling this is going to be a long fix, but I could be wrong.
That's another reason we decided to take it up there already....trying to get it fixed before riding season starts in full
Well a LITTLE update.... The dealer did have time today to install the hitch for our freedom trailer and did find the drive belt loose. I told him that's not the "slipping" problem I'm experiencing....no way! He did say he wanted to check the front pully also.... Not sure why. He also said they did have a 4 year spyder in one time that they had to replace the tranny in...but for the most part there bullet proof.
Anyhow we just got snow yesterday so he waiting for better weather to take a test ride to see what I'm talking about. I'll keep you guy's in the loop as to what is going on with the slipping.
P.W.
Front pullys have gone bad. They get the red metal rust dust. When the splines wear out enough the pully slips on the shaft. It could be that. Do a search on spyder lovers. Red dust or front pully slipping. Hundreds of pages to read.
:thumbup: Will do. With 8,300 miles on the bike...could the front pully "splines" be bad already?
:cheers:
P.W.
BajaRon
03-16-2021, 07:37 PM
I just got back from my first 70 mile ride with new Lamonster oil in my 2018 F3L. It ran great. Shifted smoother than with brp oil. No problem with his oil. I think something is broken in your clutch. Probably a spring or something that keeps pressure on the plates. Is there another dealer near you that can look at it sooner. Glad I have 3 can am dealers within 40 miles from me.
Absolutely! Lamonster uses a true synthetic oil. Not a mineral oil with an additive package like 99% of the 'Synthetic' lubricants out there. No one should get the idea that this clutch slipping issue has anything to do with Lamonster oil. There is definitely something else a-foot here. Sounds like we could be finding out the 'Why' very soon. Could very well be a front sprocket failure. Could also explain why the belt tension was loose. The plot thickens! (even if the oil does not). ;-)
:thumbup: Will do. With 8,300 miles on the bike...could the front pully "splines" be bad already?
:cheers:
P.W.
Yes some have failed with less than 5,000 miles. Mostly on F3 models. But RT models have failed to.
I'm not saying this is not my slipping issue..... and the front pully might be bad and could be the problem. But, if the splines in the pully were stripped out, or close to it. I would think it would be slipping ALL the time.......but I did "baby" it to the dealer and backed off the throttle asap when I heard the RMP rise.
Looks like I'll find out in the next week or so if that's the problem..... I kind of hope it is instead of ripping into the clutch packs in the tranny.
Thanks for your time and help!
P.W.
BajaRon
03-16-2021, 08:47 PM
I'm not saying this is not my slipping issue..... and the front pully might be bad and could be the problem. But, if the splines in the pully were stripped out, or close to it. I would think it would be slipping ALL the time.......but I did "baby" it to the dealer and backed off the throttle asap when I heard the RMP rise.
Looks like I'll find out in the next week or so if that's the problem..... I kind of hope it is instead of ripping into the clutch packs in the tranny.
Thanks for your time and help!
P.W.
Just speculation. We could all be wrong. Could be something out of left field that no one thought of. Not sure why it's always left field. Why not center or right? Another question that will never get answered, I fear.
One way or the other. We will get educated on this one.
I'm going to call them 1st thing in the AM and see if they can look at the front sprocket for me (us) asap.....like tomorrow.
Maybe they won't need to wait for the snow to melt and the roads to get better to get this figured out after all .... and I'll get "Skeeter" back home sooner than I thought.:2thumbs:
Thanks to all for your input!
P.W.
BajaRon
03-16-2021, 09:01 PM
I'm going to call them 1st thing in the AM and see if they can look at the front sprocket for me (us) asap.....like tomorrow.
Maybe they won't need to wait for the snow to melt and the roads to get better to get this figured out after all .... and I'll get "Skeeter" back home sooner them I thought.:2thumbs:
Thanks to all for your input!
P.W.
The front pulley fix could easily be your best hope. Depending on how it went. The pulley splines are softer than the output shaft they run on. Designed this way to sacrifice the relatively inexpensive and easy to replace pulley while protecting the more expensive and much harder to replace output shaft. Let's hope for the best!
Guy's
A little "play by play" update as to what is going on. The Dealer just called and said they checked the front sprocket and said it was good.... so that's not the problem. Also, just my luck when they took it for a test ride they didn't hear it slipping either. I told them to hook the Freedom trailer up to it, get out on the highway in 5/6 gear and get rough with it and I would think it should slip then.
The only thing they found wrong so far was the belt was really loose ......Could the belt have been slipping a cog on the front sprocket? I doubt it..... I'm grasping at straws here.....I'm Still thinking it's internal. I should have more updates in a few hours.
P.W.
Possible
03-20-2021, 02:23 PM
IMO if that belt had been loose enough to slip a cog, you would most certainly have noticed. And the belt damage would be
easy to see. If a cog belts slips, one or more to the cogs get torn off the belt.
Well, it wasn't my imagination, upon taking it for another test ride the dealer did experience the 6th gear slippage I was talking about.
So they hooked the bike up to the computer and it did show a clutch slippage code on the tranny. They did three kind of updates to the bike and took it for another ride and this time it didn't slip, so maybe they fixed it? I told them to keep it for a week or two and drive it as much as they can to see if it slips again.
Now my question is..... are my clutches bad, or going to be bad early from slipping??? (I would have to think yes).But I guess it's all documented now if something were to happen down the road....Good thing we bought the extended warranty at the time of purchase back in 2019.
I'll keep you all updated if anything changes...
P.W.
K80Shooter
03-20-2021, 05:15 PM
You would think that if they checked the codes and confirmed that it was indeed slipping that the same codes would have been there when you 1st took it to them. I'd wager that they never even checked them.
Good luck.
Good point! Why didn't they check for a slippage code right away when I rode it into there shop on day one??....Well I guess it's a good thing this is all being documented right now at this time...may need this info in the future for tranny work.
P.W.
spyder01
03-21-2021, 07:42 AM
When you changed your oil did it smell like burnt toast,if so then yes youre clutches are probably burnt.Another sign of burnt clutches would be chattering due to plate warpage.It is possible for a clutch to slip for a short time without overheating to the point of failure.Every time you pull out from a stop your clutches are slipping under load until they lock up completely which could take more than 1 second,and every time you shift there is a short period of slippage.With auto transmissions there is a computer parameter called clutch volume index in which the computer can measure the life span left in your clutch pack and adjust for a worn clutch.I dont know wether the Spyder has that capability but the dealer tech should.
The oil was fine when I changed it, no burnt smell or anything stuck to the magnet...clean as a whistle. So maybe I lucked out with smoking the clutches....time will tell.
I just hope they got it fixed right on the first visit, so I'm not driving 2+ hours, one way to the dealer all summer long to get this resolved.
P.W.
Mikey
03-21-2021, 06:52 PM
Good luck!!! Ride it like you stole it!!!
I'm going to ride it a bit harder when I do get it back to see if it ever slips.:2thumbs:
The oil was fine when I changed it, no burnt smell or anything stuck to the magnet...clean as a whistle. So maybe I lucked out with smoking the clutches....time will tell.
I just hope they got it fixed right on the first visit, so I'm not driving 2+ hours, one way to the dealer all summer long to get this resolved.
P.W.
I know the other person mentioned the burned smell. Unfortunately, since the Spyder has a shared sump, it is very unlikely to burn the oil like what happens with transmission fluid. Hopefully an easy fix for you.
RudyB
03-21-2021, 11:39 PM
I would say probably 99% of Spyder owners wouldn’t know how to do it really nice answer you gave the guy
After three weeks at the shop....we're going to go get it Saturday morning and see if the slipping is "Fixed" or not.....will report back here and let you know how it went. Fingers crossed.
John
Well, after a 150 miles of two up riding today pulling our new freedom trailer .......NO slippage :thumbup:
So what did they do to fix it.
That's a good question....not real sure, they did three kind of updates to the tranny computer. I really didn't expect that to fix the slipping.... but appears to have been the problem.
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