Just bought a 2012 RT-S and major oil leak is occurring.

[andy1330]

Hi Everyone,

I did something dumb and bought a 2012 RT- S SE5 Spyder 15,000 mis from an elderly couple in Colorado sight unseen. Everything looked on the up and up. I paid for the bike then went to Colorado to pick it up. I wanted to check all of the fluids. So the owner said we have to start it up and let it idle for a minute because its dry sump. He showed me the dip stick and it was right in the middle he said the book says to have it right under the full mark so he added a small amount. We checked it again. It's right at the F mark. I'm nervous about this.. but I go "well he owned the bike for 8 years so he knows better than I do. The bike also came with a RT622 trailer which was in tow.

Not 30 minutes into the drive over million dollar highway. My wife starts waving at me to pull over immediately. We pull over and she tells me the message display is saying DSP error so we pull over and read the manual and it says DSP error blah blah blah... nothing helpful. I tell her to turn the bike off and wait a few minutes turn it back on. see it the error clears. And it does... cool. We go on with our vacation. We drove up up the passes and then stopped at Silverton. While stopped at Silverton I notice the bike smells hot and little puff of smoke. comes from under the bike but it's really dusty so I just think okay, I'm probably seeing things plus the bike is working super had over these hills, Our car (which I am driving) is also smelling hot between brakes and exhaust.

I may have made a fatal error. I decided to go to a little lake called little Molas lake to get a panorama from the pass. Well that road was pretty damn rocky and I never realized how low the spider is but I figured if my Mercedes SLK can make it on this gravel road then surely a Spyder can too. In hindsight probably a bad idea.

We overnighted in Durango and were very pleased with our purchase. The next morning we headed out for Mesa Verde park, did that whole loop, awesome fall colors everywhere, came back through Cortez and down to Gallup. Didn't notice anything strange. Did 75 for an hour on I-40 stopped off in Holbrook, got gas. Headed down 77. The sun was going down as we neared Snowflake and Taylor. I was cold and had to put my convertible top up and my wife was obviously cold too so we pulled into a parking lot. While there I noticed a heavy burning oil smell and noticed some legitimate smoke coming off the bottom bike. I told my wife to wait a minute and see if the smoke dissipates. We over-nighted in Show Low and headed south. We went though the Salt River canyon which is hard on any vehicle. We down through Globe and Oracle and decided to stop at a QT in Oro Valley. From Globe to just 20 mins south of globe the temperature went from 80ish to almost 100 degrees outside. At the QT in Oro Valley I notice heavy smoke and heavy oil smell. I look under the bike and already 3 drops of oil have fallen. we sit for about 10 minutes and about 8 or 9 drops of oil have now dropped under the bike. At this point I'm very worried. I do an inspection to see where the oil is coming from and it looks like its coming straight down from the engine.

We get the bike home and it is dripping every minute. we have a steep drive way and we are trying to figure out how to park it correctly. The drive way has several lines of oil on it now and there is a puddle under it as it currently sits in the garage.


I have a few questions. If we overfilled the oil and that is the problem. It feel like I need to look in the Airbox and see if there is oil in there. Is there another way to tell? After I got home with the engine hot I checked the oil level and it is at the same place the oil was when we left from the POs home. Which I though was odd. The oil level is right at the F mark but not over.

Should I drive it to the dealer or have it towed 12 mis? The oil level looks good, if not too full. But is there a high possibility something catastrophic could happen?

If our off road excursion damaged the the pan (I don't know if that flat spot on the underside is the oil pan or not) or something crazy. Where would I look for a leak?

Last question: Does anyone have experience with an independent mechanic in the Tucson area? If not has anyone had a good dealer service experience at Ride Now Tucson East?

[pegasus1300]

1st look on the side of your oil tank. You should see a label there that will tell how to check the oil. Read the section in your owners manual that tells you how to check your oil. Spyders are different. I have a 2012 RTL with 62,000 miles Always check the oil AFTER a ride. Park, take off the side cover, run the engine 30 secs and check the oil. Oil in the air filter is a good possibility. The guy you bought it from didn't really know how to check it from your description or he didn't want to take the time to do it right. Drain the oil and refill or do a full oil change with both filters. That motor needs it every 4500 miles anyway.
You have a great bike there, take some time to come to understand that motor and Spyders in general It is a wonderful ride. Read the Spyders Do's and Don'ts.

[Trbayth]

Since you bought it used you may not have received the owner's manual. You can download them from BRP's site.

http://www.operatorsguides.brp.com/OperatorsGuidesAttachments/OwnersManuals_SSA/attach/06/2012/2660EN.pdf is a direct link to the 2012 RT

It's quite likely the previous owner overfilled the oil. As pegasus stated, your best bet is to do a full oil change.

[BajaRon]

I would find out where the oil is coming from before I did anything else. Otherwise, you're just guessing. When it comes to oil and leaks. It's not a good idea to guess. You won't know if you've fixed it until you clean up all the oil already on the out side of the motor. You'll need to know if new oil is coming out after whatever steps you take to solve the problem. You can't do that if any of the old oil remains.

[andy1330]

Alright. Got to ripping and tearing off Tupperware to get to the airbox. My god what a pain to get to an air filter. The second I lifted the air box cover it leaked oil down the side. When I opened it I couldn't believe how much damn oil was in that air box.

185253

From the other side, nice an shiny. A well lubricated airbox! pic is tilted left 90 degs

185254

Not sure what this thing is but its pretty oily. Looks like the pass through between the airbox and cylinder head.

185256

Is this the water pump? Im a little concerned that oil is coming from here, but it's right below the airbox, so.... not sure. pic is upside down.

185255

185255

I'm gonna go drive it around the block a few times and see if it blows up. I removed a half quart of oil.

[BajaRon]

Pretty much what I thought. Overfilling with oil will do this for you every time. The good news is, it's not a big deal, other than the mess that you need to get cleaned up. You should be good to go once you get the oil level corrected.

Get some Berrymans B-12 carb spray. Or, you can also use Brake Cleaner spray to get everything cleaned off. I agree that your water pump issue is most likely just collateral from the air box dripping. You will also want to spray down your throttle body (I'd definitely use the Berryman's on that). Because that oil can cause the throttle body to get gummed up and stick. Might as well take care of it while your there.

I highly recommend putting my crankcase vent hose mod on your Spyder while you're into it like this. Even with the correct amount of oil it will tend to send some of it to the air box. It's a bad design. The mod is easily done with readily available components. You can check it out further using the link below. This is virtually a maintenance free mod. And it works fantastic.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?110965-Up-date-on-oil-catch-can-08-GS&highlight=vent

[Bfromla]

Also a possibly
https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?117964-SE-tranny-heads-up

[andy1330]

Nope.... no good. A huge oil spot this morning. Dealer laid everyone off because of Coronavirus so I can't get in until the 23rd. I'm not messing with it anymore and we have no competent Indies here in Tucson that I am aware of.

[KX5062]

To Andy: are you sure you got EVERYTHING clean and oil free? Once the airbox is full of oil it can go EVERYWHERE and fool you into thinking you didn't get it or it's leaking elsewhere.

I'll echo everything said by Ron and add to make sure you replace the air filter as well as COMPLETELY clean the airbox. Most likely necessitating a removal of the airbox. I'll also add, IIRC, there were also a few members who had a leaky valve cover gasket. No big deal in that either.

[BajaRon]

To Andy: are you sure you got EVERYTHING clean and oil free? Once the airbox is full of oil it can go EVERYWHERE and fool you into thinking you didn't get it or it's leaking elsewhere.

I'll echo everything said by Ron and add to make sure you replace the air filter as well as COMPLETELY clean the airbox. Most likely necessitating a removal of the airbox. I'll also add, IIRC, there were also a few members who had a leaky valve cover gasket. No big deal in that either.

I'm not there, so it's hard to give advice. But if you don't get all the oil out of the air box, inside and out, with all of it's nooks and crannies. And probably change the air filter, which can harbor a good amount of oil if it is saturated. It' not inconceivable that you're simply getting residual and not new oil. A little oil goes a long way and tends to look like a lot more than it actually is. With a good cleaning and inspection. It should not be that hard to find the source. It's a lot better than waiting on a laid off dealership crew to come back, who knows when. Riding season will be over and it won't matter much then.

[Eviltwin]

If you are up to it, I would dive in and get the thing sorted out. Sounds like you overfilled it and its now in the airbox and dripping down. To fix/clean it you will have to pull off a majority of the tupperware in order to get the airbox out and then cleaned up. It's not an easy job and if its your first go round with maintenance on this bike, then it will be all the more "educational".

I did a major service on my 2010 last year and documented it here: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?127764-Winter-Maintenance-on-the-RT I posted some pics that might be a big help in showing you what you are up against. To get the airbox completely out, you need to remove it from the right side of the bike facing forward. That requires removing a support bar on that side and for that to happen the frunk has to come off. Its a pain, but its all necessary. And while you are at it, you might as well replace the plugs and wires as well. Trust me on this one. I would also go ahead and do an oil change so you know how much oil is in the thing.

Once you get it all cleaned up, you can run it without the panels on and watch it for any other oil leaks. With all the panels off you might want to do the antifreeze too. The bike is 8 years old and if you dont have a history, its probably due.

It sucks, you just bought it and now you have all this work to do. But you may have had to do it anyway unless your plan was to let the dealer do it. If that was the case then just hang on till the open back up.

[andy1330]

I'm just going to wait for the dealer to look at it on the 23rd. I have spent to much cash on this thing to ruin it an end up paying even more. I can not see where oil is coming down. it looks to me like the oil is actually coming from down low. The pan on the bottom is completely covered in oil. but I'm not seeing how oil got from the airbox down to there. The reason I don't believe its just overfilled oil is because of the amount it is pissing. Every time we pull out of the garage it dumps a bunch of drops of oil, every time we park it there is a puddle under it. there is oil all over the bottom from even with the center of the front wheels all the way back to where that center bar under it ends. When I clean the airbox I noted something strange and that was that the area where the air filter is was completely dry and the air filter had no oil in it. What looks like happened is the oil came up in the two intake pipes and then gushed out into the air box where it meets the lid. then from the left side the oil dropped into the right side and pooled but there was no trace of oil in the 2 pipes in the lid. I cleaned out the interior of the box with q tips and an entire roll of paper towels using dawn dish soap to brake up the oil. Then dried thoroughly.

It is possible that there is a residual pool above that center brace at the bottom. I'll have to figure out how to get that off. What's the easiest way to get that bottom pan thing off? Is there a DIY section on how to get the bottom pan off?

Every time, I have thought something was simple with an oil leak it ended up being a gasket of some sort.

[andy1330]

Yep, my feeling was right. Front valve cover gasket. 2 weeks to repair. 535 USD P/L at least that's all it was.

[Haze]

Thanks for the detailed diagnostic and follow-up.
The VTwin is a spunky motor and you will not be disappointed in its performance.
I strongly suggest following up on Ron's suggestion for the crankcase vent hose mod on your Spyder. Also
consider a Canisterectomy to eliminate gas odors.
Cheers and hope to meet you on the road.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Yep, my feeling was right. Front valve cover gasket. 2 weeks to repair. 535 USD P/L at least that's all it was.

I hope they are correct on this .... Yes it's expensive but IF it fixes it you are done with it ..... However I am having a hard time believing this is a valve gasket issue ..... good luck ..... Mike :thumbup:

[AVBIZ]

Yep, my feeling was right. Front valve cover gasket. 2 weeks to repair. 535 USD P/L at least that's all it was.

If your at the point off all the panels off and valve covers off; might as well perform the appropriate inspection/tuning for the miles you have. At least then you have a baseline of where the condition of your bike stands.

[andy1330]

Huge puddle of oil on the floor this morning... I'm so mad I don't even know what my next course of action is.

UPDATE

The oil is wayyyyy overfilled. After I drove it 20 miles I pulled in and checked the oil level and it was 1/4 inch over the full line.

I feel like I cant even trust this dealer.

[BajaRon]

Huge puddle of oil on the floor this morning... I'm so mad I don't even know what my next course of action is.

UPDATE

The oil is wayyyyy overfilled. After I drove it 20 miles I pulled in and checked the oil level and it was 1/4 inch over the full line.

I feel like I cant even trust this dealer.

I have had so many customers with this same experience. It is a real shame.

[Possible]

What does CanAm do differently from other dry sump engine builders? Why is it necessary for their oil checking procedure
to be so finicky?

[Lew L]

After a ryde ( usually a few hours long or a day ryde)----- I back the :spyder2: into the garage ( level surface ), take off my helmet and jacket, AND check the oil level. Different BUT not a big deal (or even a little one). Oh and by the way the 2014 RTs has NEVER needed oil added between oil changes. Thousands of owners do this.

Different but no biggy.

Lew L

[Possible]

"Different but no biggy."

But why is it necessary? No other dry sump engine I know of has ever required such precision. Just seems silly, or underengineered.

[canamjhb]

My suggestion is to deal with Sierra Cycles in Sierra Vista. I've had nothing but bad experience with Ride Now and don't mind telling the world about it. Sierra Cycles is a quality dealer and not far from you. They do provide pick-up service. A lot of Spyder owners from the Phoenix area will travel there because of the poor service here. Deal with Ride Now at your peril..... Jim

[andy1330]

We have a big event coming up this weekend. I'll take it to Sierra Cycles once we are done. Bike is running fine, just pissing oil every night. Ride now said something weird. I asked for clarification, but it sounds like he was saying that one of the the heli coils in the head where the valve cover attaches was stripped. But they said they would have no trouble fixing it.

Something was stripped. I tried to write it down but was driving when they called. I'm wondering if they put it together and then just hoped for the best. I'm starting to think I bought a bike with a major issue, I'm wondering if another dealer tried to fix it and failed and told the PO he needed a new head or motor or it would always leak oil.

[Joel The Biker]

Dont read into it and make assumptions. You will only upset yourself. Let Sierra Cycles look at it and see if it is an easy fix.

[andy1330]

Ride now has our spyder held hostage. I brought it in 3 weeks ago. They have been ignoring my calls, they finally sent text Nov 27th saying they have the part and are working it into the the schedule. I told them I want it back by the 5th of Dec. They have ignored me and have not responded to my call. It is my property, I am going in tomorrow to get it no matter what state it is in.

UPDATE: I asked them to button it up and give it back. If its torn apart but it back together, if the repair hasn't been done don't do it just give me the bike back. Miraculously, It was ready within 3 hours of that phone call. The oil leak is fixed. Not one drop of oil over 3 days. They said it was a tube on the bottom of the the engine that was leaking. At this point I don't really care. My wife can finally enjoy her Spyder.

We will likely go to Sierra Cycles next time.

[Mikey]

My way of thinking is that when these egg heads design these things they should be shot at first light if they design some thing that takes 3.5 or 4,3 qt's of oil on a full service!!!! round it off to a full qt, OMG make the tank bigger so there's no way you can over fill!!! Round the amount to a full gt, is that so hard! Because you are going to get some oil monkey that don't want to take the time and fully warm it up and check the level, they are going to say what's .3 qt's it will fit!!!

[AbNormy]

did they get it fixed? I had 2012 RT I put around 50k on, and while fairly reliable, it always used oil between changes. there are O rings on the filter housings as well as crush washers on the oil lines Id have looked at. Was always a pain to change oil on and you have to make sure you fill it correctly. my 2014 never uses any oil in over 7000 miles the longest ive gone between changes.

[andy1330]

All right I am happy to report the saga is finally over. Sierra cycles was able to fix the bike for real this time. The problem was the the o-ring and seals around the water pump shaft. On page 1 I had a premonition and it came true.

It was touch and go with Sierra but in the end they more than made up for any issues we had. They knocked 130 dollars off my bill and the owner brought the bike back to me. They also replaced some clutch basket springs that were worn free of charge while they were in there. Most importantly they have competent tech who can actually figure out what is wrong with an older Spyder.

FYI they do not have a pick up or delivery service. I used Freedom towing to get it there (it's about $250 from Tucson). Ride now had killed our battery because the bike went almost 2 months without being ridden or charged. It was weak the week before we took it to Sierra and then the day we were ready to take it, it wouldn't start.

All total the actual bill was $840
$140 for a new battery
$44 for leak diagnosis (only took the tech Dave 0.5 hr to figure out where the leak was from)
$444 to repair water pump shaft gaskets and o-rings
$166 for an oil change (yikes) I decided to just do it while it would be down.
$12 for shop supplies
$30 for tax

but they only made me pay $700. Great customer service!

The bike is running and shifting better than ever.

Hopefully, it will be another year before something goes wrong.

[CopperSpyder]

The best thing is your happy and up and running better than ever. :thumbup: Now go enjoy some wind therapy :yes: and when you get back :cheers:

[Possible]

WOW, that simply takes my breath away. "...only $700", you certainly have a better attitude than I. :)

I'm still trying to wrap my head around $444 to repair water pump shaft gaskets and O-rings. But I would have a real issue
with that $166 for an oil change, when they've already removed all the plastic.

Thank you for the extended cost list, it certainly will influence me if I have issues that need to be addressed.

Like Click and Clack always used to say: "It must have been time for a boat payment". LOL

[Big Arm]

Glad to hear Sierra Cycles took good care of you. It's worth a trip down there in my opinion. Can't imagine what Ride Now would have charged you. :gaah: