2014 RT SE6 with no spark - any ideas?

[mastertek2000]

i have 2014 Rt wont start no spark any idea 10.000 miles on it

[safecracker]

Im sure you checked your kill switch.

[trikermutha]

Wont start? Does it turn over? How do you know you have no spark? Do you have gas?

This may help try to solve your issue.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

i have 2014 Rt wont start no spark any idea 10.000 miles on it

After you check the KILL switch .... try jumping it with a car/trk battery .... I would do this WITHOUT the vehicle running .... then you need to check the State of Battery voltage .... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

[Lew L]

A little more info would certainly be helpful. Does the motor spin but not start??? What happens when you press the starter switch??? In gear- foot on brake??? Anything on the dash? Could be a DESS failure????
Good Luck.

[mastertek2000]

A little more info would certainly be helpful. Does the motor spin but not start??? What happens when you press the starter switch??? In gear- foot on brake??? Anything on the dash? Could be a DESS failure????
Good Luck.

it cranks when you turn the key on you can hear fuel pump no DESS failure and no codes i pulled hose off air box shot some fuel in it and nothing so i would say no spark

[trikermutha]

You still may have not got any fuel into the intake at the hose area. Maybe closer to the air filter but would have to remove the air filter first , you may get better fuel to squirt into the throttle body.

Or try starting fluid.

[mastertek2000]

i did that removed hose next to throttle body and not even a sputter

[Mikey]

What have you done to the bike leading up to the moment that it didn't start?? Did you wash it? Was you under her skirt playing around with some wires, or digging around to install a farkel? Did it sit in the rain with out a cover on it? There's a lot of things that could cause this and we have to have the answers to this to pin point the issue!

[Stache]

I don’t think you’ve confirmed no spark yet. Have you pulled a plug and held it to ground while cranking?

[mastertek2000]

What have you done to the bike leading up to the moment that it didn't start?? Did you wash it? Was you under her skirt playing around with some wires, or digging around to install a farkel? Did it sit in the rain with out a cover on it? There's a lot of things that could cause this and we have to have the answers to this to pin point the issue!

Been build new home in TN have had no time just kept in on battery tender and started it up every month had to replace battery that’s about it and new fuel is was sputtering but now nothing

[billybovine]

Sounds like it could be flooded.

Twist the the throttle to full open and hold it there. That will turn off the fuel injectors. Crank the engine for 10 seconds max. Allow the starter to cool for a bit. Then do it again. After that try a normal start.

[Mikey]

Been build new home in TN have had no time just kept in on battery tender and started it up every month had to replace battery that’s about it and new fuel is was sputtering but now nothing

Now did you drain the tank or just put new gas over the bad??

[Mikey]

I would start by draining as much gas out as you can, and start out fresh! Then put some good gas in and put a good shot of seafoam in with it! Then try to start again, it's going to take a bit to get that bad gas out of the lines. And you have to take care you don't run the battery down to far!

[Mikey]

If it's sputtering you got spark it's just got crap in the fuel system!! I am a firm believer in seafoam, it works, some people here on this site don't, but it has worked for me!! Good luck, you'll get it!!

[ARtraveler]

When a bike is on battery tender for a long rest, it is best to NOT start the vehicle once a month. The engine usually does not get fully warmed up unless you ride it each time you start it.

This may be the cause of the problem. The advice about fuel and flooding is probably right on.

[mastertek2000]

Took it for ride ran it down them filled it up

[mastertek2000]

If it's sputtering you got spark it's just got crap in the fuel system!! I am a firm believer in seafoam, it works, some people here on this site don't, but it has worked for me!! Good luck, you'll get it!!

I did that

[Mikey]

So you got it!!!:ohyea: Great!!!!!

[mastertek2000]

So you got it!!!:ohyea: Great!!!!!

It start about a week ago but now nothing

[Mikey]

OH, crap!!!:banghead:

[Mikey]

Is you your battery up to full charge?

[Mikey]

Still think you got a water problem! Bad fuel can give you fits, and a weak battery with this machine will do the same! Your fuel filter could be full of crap:dontknow: Good luck I'll leave you alone!!!!:coffee:

[trikermutha]

Wondering too about low battery voltage?

[trikermutha]

Engine Cranking Conditions SM6 Model The following conditions must be met to allow engine cranking: – Ignition switch ON – Emergency engine stop switch to RUN – Mode button pressed in once (safety message acknowledgement) – Transmission in neutral (or in gear with clutch lever depressed) – Brake pedal depressed – D.E.S.S. recognizes the key – Start button pressed in. SE6 Model The following conditions must be met to allow engine cranking: – Ignition switch ON – Emergency engine stop switch to RUN – Mode button pressed in once (safety message acknowledgement) – Transmission in neutral – Brake pedal depressed – D.E.S.S. recognizes the key – Start button pressed in. NOTE: If the transmission was not in neutral when the engine was shut off, the HCM (hydraulic control module) will automatically shift the transmission to neutral at the next engine start to allow engine starting (if there is sufficient oil pressure). The parking brake state will not affect engine cranking. TROUBLESHOOTING TROUBLESHOOTING TIPS It is good practice to check for fault codes using B.U.D.S.as a first troubleshooting step. Refer to COMMUNICATION TOOLS AND B.U.D.S. subsection. Refer to POWER DISTRIBUTION AND GROUNDS for fuses and relays information. Always refer to the WIRING DIAGRAMwhen troubleshooting an electrical circuit. Install a battery charger on jump start posts in front storage compartment for any tests that involve a prolonged "key ON" period. If battery voltage gets too low, test results can be altered. NOTICE Never force a multimeter probe into an electrical terminal. STARTING SYSTEM TROUBLESHOOTING If the gauge or lights do not come on when ignition switch is ON, refer to TROUBLESHOOTING in IGNITION SYSTEMsubsection. If gauge and lights come ON with the ignition switch ON and starter does not engage, start your testing sequence by carrying out STARTER OPERATION TESTin this subsection.

[trikermutha]

Refer to the following list for possible causes: – F8 fuse – Battery or connections (refer to CHARGING SYSTEM) – D2 diode – Start button – Engine stop switch – Starter solenoid – Clutch engagement switch (SM6 model) – Gear position sensor (SM6 model) – D.E.S.S. – Brake light switch (SE6 model) if transmission in gear) – Electrical cables/connections – ECM. If fuse F8 continuously blows, isolate the following components to determine the source of the short circuit: – Pre-starting relay – Starter solenoid – Heated oxygen sensors – EVAP purge valve – Fuel pump – D2 diode – Clutch solenoid valve (SM6 model) – Camshaft position sensor – Reverse actuator relay (R1). On SM6 model: – If starter cranks only with the clutch lever depressed, verify the GBPS (gearbox position sensor) and its circuits. Refer to GEARBOXsubsection. – If starter cranks only in neutral, carry out the CLUTCH SWITCH CONTINUITY TEST

[trikermutha]

TROUBLESHOOTING GUIDELINES Lights or Gauge do not come on when the Ignition Switch is turned ON 1. Check battery and battery cable condition. 2. Carry out an IGNITION SWITCH OPERATION TESTsee procedure in this subsection. Misfires or no Ignition Spark 1. Check fuse F6 in LH fuse box (LFB). 2. Ensure ignition coils are properly installed and connected. 3. Check spark plug(s), refer to SPARK PLUGSin this subsection. 4. Ensure the HIC connector (engine harness to main vehicle harness interconnect) is properly connected. Check condition of connector pins and ensure they are properly locked in the connector. Pay particular attention to pins 1, 2 and 3. 5. Carry out an ignition coil test using B.U.D.S.. Refer to IGNITION COILSin this subsection. PROCEDURES IGNITION SWITCH Ignition Switch Circuit Functions IGNITION SWITCH CIRCUIT FUNCTIONS PINS CIRCUIT FUNCTIONS A – G Ignition B – F Lights M – I Ignition circuit to ground Ignition Switch Operation Test Turn ignition switch ON. The following should come on: – Multifunction gauge (assuming it works) – LH and RH marker lights – License plate light – LH and RH taillights. If Nothing Came ON, Check the Following in this Order: 1. J4 main fuse in LH fuse box (LFB). 2. Fuses F1 (RFB) and F2 in (LFB) (both must be blown for complete quick test failure). 3. Voltage at J4 fuse input terminal. If there is no voltage, check for an open circuit between battery and LH fuse box. If there is voltage, check for an open circuit between J4 fuse and fuses F1 (RFB) and F2 (LFB). If Lights Came ON but the Multifunction Gauge did not, Check the Following in this Order: 1. Fuse F2 in LH fuse box. 2. Main relay R3 in LFB and related circuits, refer to POWER DISTRIBUTION AND GROUNDS subsection and the WIRING DIAGRAM. 3. Multifunction gauge connector, and associated circuits. 4. Carry out an IGNITION SWITCH OUTPUT VOLTAGE TEST (TO ECM) . Ignition Switch Output Voltage Test (to ECM) NOTE: This circuit provides the ECM wake-up voltage signal. 1. To gain access to the ECM connector, refer to ECM LOCATION ACCESSin ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION (EFI)subsection.

[Mikey]

Ya that darn DESS thing is a real pain for a lot of people!! If I had any problems with it I would delete it!!

[trikermutha]

Its going to need some tests before the issue can be resolved. Usually the DESS will not let you start the bike and show the orange key on the display. And the Antenna plugs into the DESS module from the Key swutch.

[mastertek2000]

Engine Cranking Conditions SM6 Model The following conditions must be met to allow engine cranking: – Ignition switch ON – Emergency engine stop switch to RUN – Mode button pressed in once (safety message acknowledgement) – Transmission in neutral (or in gear with clutch lever depressed) – Brake pedal depressed – D.E.S.S. recognizes the key – Start button pressed in. SE6 Model The following conditions must be met to allow engine cranking: – Ignition switch ON – Emergency engine stop switch to RUN – Mode button pressed in once (safety message acknowledgement) – Transmission in neutral – Brake pedal depressed – D.E.S.S. recognizes the key – Start button pressed in. NOTE: If the transmission was not in neutral when the engine was shut off, the HCM (hydraulic control module) will automatically shift the transmission to neutral at the next engine start to allow engine starting (if there is sufficient oil pressure). The parking brake state will not affect engine cranking. TROUBLESHOOTING TROUBLESHOOTING TIPS It is good practice to check for fault codes using B.U.D.S.as a first troubleshooting step. Refer to COMMUNICATION TOOLS AND B.U.D.S. subsection. Refer to POWER DISTRIBUTION AND GROUNDS for fuses and relays information. Always refer to the WIRING DIAGRAMwhen troubleshooting an electrical circuit. Install a battery charger on jump start posts in front storage compartment for any tests that involve a prolonged "key ON" period. If battery voltage gets too low, test results can be altered. NOTICE Never force a multimeter probe into an electrical terminal. STARTING SYSTEM TROUBLESHOOTING If the gauge or lights do not come on when ignition switch is ON, refer to TROUBLESHOOTING in IGNITION SYSTEMsubsection. If gauge and lights come ON with the ignition switch ON and starter does not engage, start your testing sequence by carrying out STARTER OPERATION TESTin this subsection.
Well now that you say that the bike is in Reverse

[JayBros]

I vote for crap in the fuel system. Since there is a coil on each of the spark plugs it would have to be a primary electrical power fault to cause all three plugs to have no spark. From what I've read here on SL since the introduction of the 1330 engine flooding the fuel system dos not seem to be the problem with the engine that some V-twin owners experienced. It appears to me a technician may have to get up close and personal with the Spyder and B.U.D.S. to accurately diagnose the problem. I can tell you from my own experience getting a bad tank of gas, full of water, when the bike was a shade over a year old and had 11.4K on the clock. I got maybe a half mile from the C-store/gas station the engine sputtered and stalled maybe three times than would not start at all. Fortunately there was a dealership only 16 miles away. B.E.S.T. roadside assist covered the rollback and the oil company that owned the station covered all the shop expense for the dealership to purge and flush the system. It has run like a finely tuned watch for 56K and five years since the bad fuel episode.

[trikermutha]

Well now that you say that the bike is in Reverse

There ya go. So with the SE6 it should be started in Neutral and should go there automatically assuming you have a SE6? Manual has to have clutch pulled in or in Neutral to start. But sounds like you are getting it to turn over?

[mastertek2000]

There ya go. So with the SE6 it should be started in Neutral and should go there automatically assuming you have a SE6? Manual has to have clutch pulled in or in Neutral to start. But sounds like you are getting it to turn over?

It’s the semi automatic it does crank how would I get it in neutral

[trikermutha]

I wonder hows it cranking if its in Reverse??

Try pressing the paddle shifter and see if it shifts . BUT be careful if trying to start it and shifting , I would have your foot on the brake too. It should go into Neutral automatically when turned off and back on to restart.

Is the bike moving when you are cranking it? It may not have enough RPM to engage the clutch to move.

[trikermutha]

NOTE: If the transmission was not in neutral when the engine was shut off, the HCM (hydraulic control module) will automatically shift the transmission to neutral at the next engine start to allow engine starting (if there is sufficient oil pressure). The parking brake state will not affect engine starting.

[Mikey]

I would put my foot on the brake anyway! And it should be on the display what gear it's in, if the display isn't lit then maybe the battery needs a charge!:dontknow:

[Mikey]

How would a person check the crank censer?

[trikermutha]

It wont crank anyway if the brake is not pressed along with the other conditions that need to be met before it can crank.

[trikermutha]

No Fault codes stored??

[Mikey]

It wont crank anyway if the brake is not pressed along with the other conditions that need to be met before it can crank.

Mine will start in neutral with out brake peddle

[guzzihack]

My '15 SE6 will also start without pressing brake pedal.

[JayBros]

With the SE6 transmission if the bike is in any gear other than Neutral the bike will not crank unless the brake pedal is depressed. It's a safety interlock. If the bike is in Neutral the brake pedal does not have to be depressed to start it.

[Mikey]

Yes and he is giving us the impression that it's cranking and not in neutral!!! And I asked him if he could see the dash it should tell him what gear it's in and he hasn't said anything towards that ether!!

[mastertek2000]

Yes it is in reverse and cranks when your foot is on the brake

[Peter Aawen]

Yes it is in reverse and cranks when your foot is on the brake

They do that! They are even MEANT to do that!! :thumbup:

The clutch on all SE6's is operated via oil pressure, so when the engine's not running, the clutch isn't engaged (cos there's NO oil pressure ;) ) and even if you've left it in gear, it'll still roll around if the park brake's not on; and it would even start if there wasn't that foot-brake inter-lock/lock-out thingie!!
:rolleyes:

The lock-out is there so that you CAN NOT start the engine if the trans is in gear but you don't have your foot on the brake; cos if you did start without the brake applied, the engine running would build oil pressure pdq, engage the clutch/trans with the engine, & maybe cause the Spyder to ryde off into the distance, potentially without a ryder aboard!! :shocked:

So the SE6's DON'T hafta be in neutral to crank the engine over &/or start, but if they AREN'T in neutral, you WILL hafta have your foot on the brake or the Spyder might take off unexpectedly! :lecturef_smilie: Simples, really! ;)

[trikermutha]

You still have to be in neutral to crank the engine. Per the manual as posted on #25.

Wondering why his is still in reverse , since its a SE6 and should be in neutral?

[Mikey]

I have had so many issues with this ethanol gas I still want to go to fuel on this one. Do you smell gas when your cranking it, like it may be flooded? And it don't even sputter?:dontknow: To the shop !!!

[PMK]

To satisfy those that believe it must be in neutral, carefully move the gear selector shaft behind the body work by you left heel. It is a splined shaft not externally used on SE models. Again, carefully grasp the splines aligning the jaw teeth of good pliers, ideally vice grips, and find neutral. The shifter will spring back to center after each gear selection.

As for no spark, did you try using starting fluid or was it just gasoline? Sometimes gasoline as starting fluid will not work well.

Typically, these modern electronic ignitions, especially coil on plug are very reliable for many years and miles. Yes, it may have no spark. If true, I would say it is not coils since each spark plug has its own, and one failed coil would be a simpler misfire.

Possibly the crankshaft sensor has failed, but they often toss a code and fail while the engine is running. Hopefully, it is not an engine computer issue, and again, they are pretty reliable.

Have you previously done any tasks that may have upset some wiring or connectors?

Outside of that, as mentioned trying the wide open throttle crank to clear a flooded engine has had good results for others in the past and would be my first tests as it is easy and quick.

Possibly it is bad fuel as mentioned. Contending with that can be a bit of work. Myself, If suspected, I would disconnect the fuel line at the filter and install a hose with a restrictor, then engage the key and capture fuel in a clear glass jar. Inspect for water.

If needed drain the tank in a similar manner.

The restrictor may be needed as many 60 psi injection systems default off if a fuel line leak is suspected. Without a restrictor, the system builds no pressure and shuts down.

All the best with it.

[trikermutha]

If its a neutral issue,gas,spark who knows we are not there.

Its up to the OP to fill us in what was done up to this point. Trying to troubleshoot like this is impossible.



Good Luck.

[mastertek2000]

ok so i drained the fuel replaced with fresh gass now i get a p0335 witch is a crankshaft position failure where is it located

[trikermutha]

CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR (CPS) CPS Location The CPS is located on the lower engine crankcase half, on the LH side of the engine.

[mastertek2000]

CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR (CPS) CPS Location The CPS is located on the lower engine crankcase half, on the LH side of the engine.

Do you mean left sitting on it or looking at is

[trikermutha]

Do you mean left sitting on it or looking at is

Correct left side sitting. From the picture in the manual it looks to be under the engine about the middle of where you see the side of the engine. Lower crankcase half.

[mastertek2000]

Ok found it located at the bottom of the crank what’s should the homs be if you Homs it if it like all other CPS air should be 550-750 Homs

[PMK]

Ok found it located at the bottom of the crank what’s should the homs be if you Homs it if it like all other CPS air should be 550-750 Homs

FWIW, and I may be wrong, that sensor is likely a Hall Effect or similar sensor. Been dealing with similar on another project. A friend that designed electronic ignitions for race engines explained those type sensors 99.99999% of the time either work fine or fail. He also explained that in hundreds he sold on the race ignitions, only 1 failed intermittently and required troubleshooting with a heat gun to induce the failure.

My advice, and others here had them fail also, just replace it, they have the track record to indicate very likely the problem.

[trikermutha]

Ohms-

Make sure sensor connector is fully inserted. Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-H1 to CPS-1 (expected value: < 2 ohms). Measure resistance from connector: ECMA-K2 to CPS-2 (expected value: < 2 ohms).

I have heard of the camshaft sensor failing dont think I have heard of a crankshaft sensor failing.

But its possible.

[mastertek2000]

I did a shearch on this site and seen a few 2014 having them replace thanks for the info

[mastertek2000]

Ok well got new crank sensor in and it tested just like the old on .985 ohms so I did not install it ended up ready the bike apart some more and said what the heck check plugs installed new plugs she fired up runs like a charm thank you all for the help

[Mikey]

:2thumbs: Good for you!!!!!!! Change the wires while you were there??? Glad you got it!!!

[trikermutha]

Just wondering how did the spark plugs look and only 10k miles? The plugs were bad?

[JayBros]

:2thumbs: Good for you!!!!!!! Change the wires while you were there??? Glad you got it!!!

No wires on a 1330; individual coils on each plug. Another advantage over the V-twins.

[mastertek2000]

looked good just gas fouled

[AbNormy]

so it was gas the whole time after all? I replaced mine at 25k on my 2014 just for grins they still looked good but I had stuff off it already while I was doing my shock adjusters and sway bar. There's new gas stations here in Austin called QPS and they sell ethanol free gas but only regular, I had my chip flashed so Im stuck with premium only they say. Will we ever get off ethanol? Glad you got it running.