Anyone want to wake up BRP?

[WackyDan]

Funny as I'm a systems engineer but don't know the first thing about compiling a video to youtube.com.

I had an idea though.... Anyone out there youtube savvy?

Take all the pictures of burned spyders, place some nice intro text at the start of the video and notations for each segment with the individual fires. Compiling the pics into the video and posting would probably stir the pot well.

Problem is... It may force BRP to issue a statement, but it may also force some potential buyers away. Loss of business is indeed a motivator eh?

Don't call me a trouble maker... I'm just tired after a long night on my Spyder and staying up an extra hour to let her cool off before I push her into the garage...So I got to thinking. :D

[gazey]

After what I have read about these fires I think 10 minutes to cool down should be plenty of time.
If it don't go up in the first ten minutes I don't think is going up at all. Just my 2 cents.

[Firefly]

Funny as I'm a systems engineer but don't know the first thing about compiling a video to youtube.com.

I had an idea though.... Anyone out there youtube savvy?

Take all the pictures of burned spyders, place some nice intro text at the start of the video and notations for each segment with the individual fires. Compiling the pics into the video and posting would probably stir the pot well.

Problem is... It may force BRP to issue a statement, but it may also force some potential buyers away. Loss of business is indeed a motivator eh?

Don't call me a trouble maker... I'm just tired after a long night on my Spyder and staying up an extra hour to let her cool off before I push her into the garage...So I got to thinking. :D

Interesting idea -- along the lines of the guy who had his Taylor guitar broken by United Airlines (just search youtube for 'united breaks guitars).

BUT----

I really think it's too soon for such an action. In my opinion, the main problem here isn't BRP's lack of response--- it is the lack of most of these fires not being properly documented and reported to the NHTSA--- which frankly is the fault of those owners who didn't take the time to report them.

[BajaRon]

No one can deny that there are issues with at least a few Spyders.

Still, from everything that I know and the BRP people I've met I am convinced they are on our side.

You can be assured BRP is not ignoring any of these issues. They have an approach that may not thrill us as we want answers and solutions yesterday. As great as that would be it just isn't the way things work.

A corporation just isn't going to jump out and do something until they have a pretty good consensus from all departsments as to what needs to be done. That isn't necessarily bad. Especially if they get it right the 1st time.

I'm not saying that we need to blindly trust anyone to take care of everything. BRP or the dealerships. Just that we need to give them some benefit of the doubt along the way.

Beating them up should be the last resort.

[Tom in NM]

No one can deny that there are issues with at least a few Spyders.

Still, from everything that I know and the BRP people I've met I am convinced they are on our side.

You can be assured BRP is not ignoring any of these issues. They have an approach that may not thrill us as we want answers and solutions yesterday. As great as that would be it just isn't the way things work.

A corporation just isn't going to jump out and do something until they have a pretty good consensus from all departsments as to what needs to be done. That isn't necessarily bad. Especially if they get it right the 1st time.

I'm not saying that we need to blindly trust anyone to take care of everything. BRP or the dealerships. Just that we need to give them some benefit of the doubt along the way.

Beating them up should be the last resort.

. . . . patience, persistence and vigilance is what I think will get all of us to a good ending on this. Not always easy, but that is what it takes.

Tom

[zzneonzz]

Maybe i'm completely off base here but unless the numbers have risen since the last time i was on the site i believe there were only 4 maybe 5 fires regarding the spyder and 1 of them was due to a forest fire.

That is a very small fraction of the spyder population. No one even knows the actual cause of any of them from what i remember so as far as we know it could be overfilling the tank afterall the Manual states to insert the nozzle completely and stop at the first click and i know from reading all the "How much fuel does it hold" posts that many spyder owners don't follow this rule and whats to say this wasn't the cause of it? Or it could be some flaw in the design but with such a small fraction of them having issues and no known cause at this time i think bashing BRP is not the best course of action. These could be 5 fires started by 5 different reasons for all we know they can't just issue a generic bulliten till they have determined a cause that is a manufacturer defect or else everything that has any type of power or flamable liquid would have to carry a "May Cause Fire" warning.

Also if you own a ford many of them have gone up in flames and i'm talking 100's so if you own a ford you better let it cool off outside the garage as well. Oh and chrystler/dodge same thing. Oh wait those company's also waited till they found the cause of the fires. Ford - Cruise control wiring issue. Chrystler/Dodge - Leaking Fuel rail. But if you looked at any of those forums when it was happening you would have found posts with complaints about them going up in flames.

I think its great folks are posting their problems/fixes and also letting the community know about the fires but going off half ****ed when a cause has yet to be determined seems a bit much.

[BLACK WIDOW]

Funny as I'm a systems engineer but don't know the first thing about compiling a video to youtube.com.

I had an idea though.... Anyone out there youtube savvy?

Take all the pictures of burned spyders, place some nice intro text at the start of the video and notations for each segment with the individual fires. Compiling the pics into the video and posting would probably stir the pot well.

Problem is... It may force BRP to issue a statement, but it may also force some potential buyers away. Loss of business is indeed a motivator eh?

Don't call me a trouble maker... I'm just tired after a long night on my Spyder and staying up an extra hour to let her cool off before I push her into the garage...So I got to thinking. :D

I would not do this. That kind of action could Snowball into something more than you wanted. If it would get out of hand (More rumor than fact) and people wouldn't buy the product (remember the Chevy Corvair) BRP would take it off the market and you would loose your investment also. I say let BRP handle the problems, we just need to be sure that they are reported factually.:lecturef_smilie:IMHO


Michael:doorag:

[Desert Spyder]

I would not do this. That kind of action could Snowball into something more than you wanted. If it would get out of hand (More rumor than fact) and people wouldn't buy the product (remember the Chevy Corvair) BRP would take it off the market and you would loose your investment also. I say let BRP handle the problems, we just need to be sure that they are reported factually.:lecturef_smilie:IMHO


Michael:doorag:

:agree:

I remember seeing a report on TV: 60 minutes or something similar, how one of the Big 3 in Detroit recalled EVERY car of a certain model, name escapes me, and junked them. Few escaped.

[Zerocool]

I would not do this. That kind of action could Snowball into something more than you wanted. If it would get out of hand (More rumor than fact) and people wouldn't buy the product (remember the Chevy Corvair) BRP would take it off the market and you would loose your investment also. I say let BRP handle the problems, we just need to be sure that they are reported factually.:lecturef_smilie:IMHO


Michael:doorag:

:agree:

[Bersquack]

:agree: with most who suggested that we need more information about the fires and have proff that BRP is ignoring the situation which I find hard to believe.

I hate to say this, but we have to wait and see.

[wyliec]

I would not do this. That kind of action could Snowball into something more than you wanted. If it would get out of hand (More rumor than fact) and people wouldn't buy the product (remember the Chevy Corvair) BRP would take it off the market and you would loose your investment also. I say let BRP handle the problems, we just need to be sure that they are reported factually.:lecturef_smilie:IMHO


Michael:doorag:

I agree, except the the Corvair is a collector's item now.


My uncle had a Corvair Spyder. He never agreed with the rollover thing.

[NancysToy]

I still ride the Spyder into the garage every time. I understand your frustration, though. If a person is intimidated by their vehicle, it is never as much fun as when they were blindly "in love". I am sorry you have reached the point of doubt and worry.

I agree that this would not be a good approach. Sensationalism seldom reaches the right people or sends the right message. Once you hit the tabloids, your reputation is tarnished forever. In this case I think that would be overkill, and unwarranted. It takes proper reporting of problems like this to get the ball rolling, as Firefly has stated so well. It also takes investigation, lots of discussion, and some good engineering to overcome any common cause that is found. These take time! It is also very possible that these incidents have different causes, and for that there is no simple solution. Jumping to the wrong conclusions, and fixing the wrong thing, would do nothing but create a false confidence and ruin the brand's reputation forever. This thing has to be done right!

Until the time that there is a well conceived solution for this issue......if that time ever comes, I will continue to ride as I always have, and drive into the garage after every ride. Yes, I am more thorough in my inspections now. Yes, I have covered the front fuel filter line with corrugated tubing, as the 2009 models are now equipped. And yes, I am more careful about how I fill the gas tank, slowly and just close to the "no-lead" ring. These are simple but prudent precautions, and I expect them to suffice. It is my hope that all Spyder owners will be reasonably careful in a similar manner, but that none of them become scared of their machines.

[Putt-Putt]

Ok what did I miss on this subject of fires? This is the first I've seen on this subject.:dontknow:

[Magic Man]

I know there have been some Spyder fires, and to those unlucky few my heart goes out. :(

With 10,000 Spyders is the US alone, that's only a .0007 chance of it happening to any one of us.

The day I let anything with a .0007 chance of it happening keep we up at night, is the day get my head checked. Becauase if I did let those kind of things worry me, I be a nervous wreck about everything.

I have a greater than .0007 chance of my house buring down, as one in 1200 houses has a fire each year which is a .00083 chance. That is greater than the chance my Spyder will burn.

I have great insurance (and insurance checks always clear the bank LOL) and these are not bursting into flames when the people were running them getting the owners hurt.

So, for me, I'll "roll the dice" and ride mine until the wheels fall off. Because at 50 life's far too short to worry about ANYTHING that has only an .0007 chance of happening to me. :thumbup:

MM

[JimAlpha]

I would not do this. That kind of action could Snowball into something more than you wanted. If it would get out of hand (More rumor than fact) and people wouldn't buy the product (remember the Chevy Corvair) BRP would take it off the market and you would loose your investment also. I say let BRP handle the problems, we just need to be sure that they are reported factually.:lecturef_smilie:IMHO


Michael:doorag:

Please do not forget 60 Minutes and their Audi press which tanked Audi sales in the US for years. I agree with Black Widow and in honor of his wise comments I have bolded this statement.

[3tracs]

I would not do this. That kind of action could Snowball into something more than you wanted. If it would get out of hand (More rumor than fact) and people wouldn't buy the product (remember the Chevy Corvair) BRP would take it off the market and you would loose your investment also. I say let BRP handle the problems, we just need to be sure that they are reported factually.:lecturef_smilie:IMHO


Michael:doorag:


:agree:

[BLACK WIDOW]

I know there have been some Spyder fires, and to those unlucky few my heart goes out. :(

With 10,000 Spyders is the US alone, that's only a .0007 chance of it happening to any one of us.

The day I let anything with a .0007 chance of it happening keep we up at night, is the day get my head checked. Becauase if I did let those kind of things worry me, I be a nervous wreck about everything.

I have a greater than .0007 chance of my house buring down, as one in 1200 houses has a fire each year which is a .00083 chance. That is greater than the chance my Spyder will burn.

I have great insurance (and insurance checks always clear the bank LOL) and these are not bursting into flames when the people were running them getting the owners hurt.

So, for me, I'll "roll the dice" and ride mine until the wheels fall off. Because at 50 life's far too short to worry about ANYTHING that has only an .0007 chance of happening to me. :thumbup:

MM

:agree:Excellent point!!

Michael:doorag:

[Biker]

I still ride the Spyder into the garage every time. I understand your frustration, though. If a person is intimidated by their vehicle, it is never as much fun as when they were blindly "in love". I am sorry you have reached the point of doubt and worry.

I agree that this would not be a good approach. Sensationalism seldom reaches the right people or sends the right message. Once you hit the tabloids, your reputation is tarnished forever. In this case I think that would be overkill, and unwarranted. It takes proper reporting of problems like this to get the ball rolling, as Firefly has stated so well. It also takes investigation, lots of discussion, and some good engineering to overcome any common cause that is found. These take time! It is also very possible that these incidents have different causes, and for that there is no simple solution. Jumping to the wrong conclusions, and fixing the wrong thing, would do nothing but create a false confidence and ruin the brand's reputation forever. This thing has to be done right!

Until the time that there is a well conceived solution for this issue......if that time ever comes, I will continue to ride as I always have, and drive into the garage after every ride. Yes, I am more thorough in my inspections now. Yes, I have covered the front fuel filter line with corrugated tubing, as the 2009 models are now equipped. And yes, I am more careful about how I fill the gas tank, slowly and just close to the "no-lead" ring. These are simple but prudent precautions, and I expect them to suffice. It is my hope that all Spyder owners will be reasonably careful in a similar manner, but that none of them become scared of their machines.

I couldn't have said it better myself, Scotty. Yes, this machine isn't perfect by no means but it is a fun machine and it still makes me smile every time I kick it into gear and crack the throttle. I think this machine is still in it's early infinite stages of quirks but, for the most part it's a good machine. In time they will fix the situations we are worried about. The owners are giving BRP feedback on it's problems and thats' what they need. If they don't take care of the problems, they will lose the fight and the product will go away. Hang in there Spyder riders, we will prevail.

[BLACK WIDOW]

I agree, except the the Corvair is a collector's item now.


My uncle had a Corvair Spyder. He never agreed with the rollover thing.

Yes, the Corvair is a collectors item, I just hope the Spyder isn't about 40 years from now. BTW I never did agree with the roll-over thing either. It was later proven in un-biased tests (after it was to late) that the Corvair was a lot safer than many popular cars on the road at that time; The VW being one of those.nojoke


Michael:doorag:

[3wheeldemon]

I would not do this. That kind of action could Snowball into something more than you wanted. If it would get out of hand (More rumor than fact) and people wouldn't buy the product (remember the Chevy Corvair) BRP would take it off the market and you would loose your investment also. I say let BRP handle the problems, we just need to be sure that they are reported factually.:lecturef_smilie:IMHO


Michael:doorag:

:agree:Exactly my thoughts!

But since we are going into a possitive mood now in this board, lets start a list of top 10 things to do while you wait to see if your Spyder cools off:spyder::

I will start with three:

Cleaning my faceshield
Taking the dirt out of my Spyder rims and tuperware
Think about garage improvement projects I will never do

3WD

[Firefly]

I know there have been some Spyder fires, and to those unlucky few my heart goes out. :(

With 10,000 Spyders is the US alone, that's only a .0007 chance of it happening to any one of us.

The day I let anything with a .0007 chance of it happening keep we up at night, is the day get my head checked. Becauase if I did let those kind of things worry me, I be a nervous wreck about everything.

I have a greater than .0007 chance of my house buring down, as one in 1200 houses has a fire each year which is a .00083 chance. That is greater than the chance my Spyder will burn.

I have great insurance (and insurance checks always clear the bank LOL) and these are not bursting into flames when the people were running them getting the owners hurt.

So, for me, I'll "roll the dice" and ride mine until the wheels fall off. Because at 50 life's far too short to worry about ANYTHING that has only an .0007 chance of happening to me. :thumbup:

MM

Sorry, but I must disagree with your numbers.

You are talking about 10,000 total spyders - and we have no idea how many out of 10,000 have caught on fire - we only know how many have burnt from the membership out here. Your .0007 chance based on 10,000 is assuming that no one outside of this website has had a fire.

The fair way to look at these numbers is:

There are around 3,000 members here - and I don't believe all 3,000 are still around or even owned Spyders. We know of 6 confirmed fires out of these 3,000 'possible' Spyder owners.

That is 1 out of every 500 - or .005%... at best.

If you check the NHTSA - you will only find around 8 reports of steering failures - and BRP only received around 14 total (including those 8) reports.

So 14 out of 13,000 Spyders in North America was cause enough for a safety recall. That is one out of every 900.

If we get more owners to take the time and report this to the NHTSA - I have no doubt a recall will be done. BRP has had similar fire related recalls in the past - one was due to gas lines rubbing on engine heads.

[zzneonzz]

So 14 out of 13,000 Spyders in North America was cause enough for a safety recall. That is one out of every 900.


14 just happened to be the magic number that it took for them to figure out the problem




If we get more owners to take the time and report this to the NHTSA - I have no doubt a recall will be done. BRP has had similar fire related recalls in the past - one was due to gas lines rubbing on engine heads.

And i'm sure they will have a recall on the spyder once they determine the cause of the fires if it is in fact manufacturer defect.

[Magic Man]

Sorry, but I must disagree with your numbers.

You are talking about 10,000 total spyders - and we have no idea how many out of 10,000 have caught on fire - we only know how many have burnt from the membership out here. Your .0007 chance based on 10,000 is assuming that no one outside of this website has had a fire.

The fair way to look at these numbers is:

There are around 3,000 members here - and I don't believe all 3,000 are still around or even owned Spyders. We know of 6 confirmed fires out of these 3,000 'possible' Spyder owners.

That is 1 out of every 500 - or .005%... at best.

If you check the NHTSA - you will only find around 8 reports of steering failures - and BRP only received around 14 total (including those 8) reports.

So 14 out of 13,000 Spyders in North America was cause enough for a safety recall. That is one out of every 900.

If we get more owners to take the time and report this to the NHTSA - I have no doubt a recall will be done. BRP has had similar fire related recalls in the past - one was due to gas lines rubbing on engine heads.


Well while your home ringing your hands over this .005 chance, I'll be out riding my Spyder and loving it. To each his own. Seems some people would rather gripe than have fun I guess? Maybe making a "bitch fest" is their idea of fun? :dontknow:

But, do any of you really think BRP is not looking into this "real hard already" without you telling them to? Come on guys, get real!

I am sure BRP is looking into this as HARD as they can. They do not want to be left holding the bag if somebody gets hurt and it is their problem. Making a You Tube vid to slam them does nothing but make a bad condition worse.

Do you really think they WANT people to be hurt or unhappy with their Spyders? It's time we stop this "US AGAINST THEM" thinking about BRP and our Spyders. Regardless of what any of you may think, they do want you to be safe and happy with your Spyders! They want you to keep buying BRP products now and into the future. Making you unhappy, mad or getting you hurt does nothing for their bottom line at all.

I know nobody, even NHTSA has been able to make one of these go up in smoke to see why they are doing this? Inasmuch they have not made BRP do anything yet. It also is not a case of the NHTSA is not knowing about these fires ether, as it is their job to find out such things. They have their eyes on this already you can be sure.

I am not saying that there might not someday be an "update" to check/fix/modify something on our Spyders to make them better and safer in this regard here at all. We just have to allow people (yes BRP is made up of people just like you and me not machines) "real time" to try to find out just what is going on here. Just because everybody wants answers overnight does not mean they can be found that quick.

But, the sun is out here today, and I only have about 26 weekends a year here in NY that are any good for riding given rain/winter. So, I'm not going to miss even one day because "the sky is falling"

If my math is wrong (and I don't believe it is, I think we have heard through "the grape vine" about all the fires) and your's is correct (.005) I'll never let half of one percent keep me from enjoying my Spyder. Why my odds to get snuffed out by some driver in a cage everytime I ride is higher than that. :thumbup:

MM

[Firefly]

I'm not stopping my riding at all--- still ride every day - and would buy another Spyder in a heartbeat if mine was to become toast. I'm against the posting of the video on youtube---- at this point.

I do believe BRP wants to fix this - but there's nothing better to put some fire(pun intended) under their butts like the NHTSA contacting them. They didn't do the recall about the steering until many of us filed reports with the NHTSA.

It's not that I thought you math was 'wrong' - just that it was using numbers assuming that we know of all the fires.. while mine is assuming we do not know about all the other fires. The truth falls somewhere in between I'm sure--- but I'll bet donuts to dollars there are twice the number of Spyder fires--- we just don't know about them out here.

It seems that BRP has taken the road of 'blame the customer' on at least a few of these Spyders--- same as they did with my steering failure.

Time for a ride......

[Magic Man]

I'm not stopping my riding at all--- still ride every day - and would buy another Spyder in a heartbeat if mine was to become toast. I'm against the posting of the video on youtube---- at this point.

I do believe BRP wants to fix this - but there's nothing better to put some fire(pun intended) under their butts like the NHTSA contacting them. They didn't do the recall about the steering until many of us filed reports with the NHTSA.

It's not that I thought you math was 'wrong' - just that it was using numbers assuming that we know of all the fires.. while mine is assuming we do not know about all the other fires. The truth falls somewhere in between I'm sure--- but I'll bet donuts to dollars there are twice the number of Spyder fires--- we just don't know about them out here.

It seems that BRP has taken the road of 'blame the customer' on at least a few of these Spyders--- same as they did with my steering failure.

Time for a ride......


I too had one of the "Spyders that never had any power steering from day one" remember? So I know about what may have seemed like BRP was not aware of my problems. But I also know from Lamonster's talks to Matt at BRP that they were all over this ASAP.

Even if there are twice the fires out there, I know from a CTA ( cover their as$) point they will never come right out and say it is their fault until they know 100% for sure and have a fix for it too.

I just hate to think of all the people who will see a You Tube vid and think "all Spyders" go up in toast. It is thinking like this that can drive resale values right into the dumper as things like this make John Q Public think all Spyders are Roman Candles waiting to burst into flames.

Remember how many people here and elsewhere who have said a Spyder was their very first bike? Hearing things like this or seeing a You Tube vid to these new riders (not all of whom can afford new Spyders, but might buy a used one) could cost all us in the long run more than we may have thought about. Because who would buy a brand of bike that You Tube says burst into flames for no good reason. The internet does not lie right?

I am with everybody here who says we all need to get to the bottom of this ASAP 100%!

I just think regardless of what any of us think, BRP is really all over this already more so than we will ever know. But, also that they won't say anything "offical" until they have something "real" to say about this topic and it's cause/fix.

MM

[BajaRon]

I too had one of the "Spyders that never had any power steering from day one" remember? So I know about what may have seemed like BRP was not aware of my problems. But I also know from Lamonster's talks to Matt at BRP that they were all over this ASAP.

Even if there are twice the fires out there, I know from a CTA ( cover their as$) point they will never come right out and say it is their fault until they know 100% for sure and have a fix for it too.

I just hate to think of all the people who will see a You Tube vid and think "all Spyders" go up in toast. It is thinking like this that can drive resale values right into the dumper as things like this make John Q Public think all Spyders are Roman Candles waiting to burst into flames.

Remember how many people here and elsewhere who have said a Spyder was their very first bike? Hearing things like this or seeing a You Tube vid to these new riders (not all of whom can afford new Spyders, but might buy a used one) could cost all us in the long run more than we may have thought about. Because who would buy a brand of bike that You Tube says burst into flames for no good reason. The internet does not lie right?

I am with everybody here who says we all need to get to the bottom of this ASAP 100%!

I just think regardless of what any of us think, BRP is really all over this already more so than we will ever know. But, also that they won't say anything "offical" until they have something "real" to say about this topic and it's cause/fix.

MM

:agree: BRP has got to be all over this issue of fires.

We have to look at this as a partnership with BRP and the dealers. We each have a role to play.

My steering was ZERO from day 1. Figured it out (well, Lamont figured it out but that is beside the point) and got it fixed.

The fix was a bit protracted but again, BRP and dealership were working out bugs of their own. I feel that because I cooperated and didn't get all fired up, the process went pretty well overall.

And, I'd say that my event helped both the dealership and BRP to improve the next customer's experience. That is a good thing.

We have to ask ourselves what our goal is.

If our goal is to cook BRP's goose (or Spyder in this case) and rub theirs and everyone elses nose in it we can do that.

But think how many "Lurkers" visit this site thinking about buying a Spyder. If it were you, what would you think if the very place called SpyderLovers was hating on the Spyder? Especially when the truth is, we really love the Spyder. I see smiles on every Spyder Rider's face, everytime I meet one (mayby they're just that glad to see me?:D).

Multiply the effect by thousands that would see a Spyder buring video on You Tube.

If we want to get this fixed let's do what we can to work together. Think about it. What are the chances that you or I will come up with a fix? Not good. The fix will come from BRP and I don't think we have to beat them up to get it.

If we nuke the goose, don't be surprised when the golden eggs stop coming.

As always, just my opinion (of course I'm pretty impressed with it but that is also worth what you paid for it! :joke:)

[bun-1]

No one can deny that there are issues with at least a few Spyders.

Still, from everything that I know and the BRP people I've met I am convinced they are on our side.

You can be assured BRP is not ignoring any of these issues. They have an approach that may not thrill us as we want answers and solutions yesterday. As great as that would be it just isn't the way things work.

A corporation just isn't going to jump out and do something until they have a pretty good consensus from all departsments as to what needs to be done. That isn't necessarily bad. Especially if they get it right the 1st time.

I'm not saying that we need to blindly trust anyone to take care of everything. BRP or the dealerships. Just that we need to give them some benefit of the doubt along the way.

Beating them up should be the last resort.


i disagree because my bike caught fire and was saved for the most part, but BRP didn't send a tech out to investigate personally nor did they request my bike to be sent in. these jokers had the dealer send them pictures of the damage HINT HINT they either don't give a f_ck or they don't give a sh*t...

sorry to b so anal but my bike was only 2 months old with 1700 miles and all they offered to do was fix it..

[Firefly]

i disagree because my bike caught fire and was saved for the most part, but BRP didn't send a tech out to investigate personally nor did they request my bike to be sent in. these jokers had the dealer send them pictures of the damage HINT HINT they either don't give a f_ck or they don't give a sh*t...

sorry to b so anal but my bike was only 2 months old with 1700 miles and all they offered to do was fix it..

You filed a recent report on the NHTSA right?? Your story sounds like the one listed---- if that is you-- THANKS for doing that.

So is BRP fixing it--- or is your insurance kicking in to cover it?

I feel your pain-- hope they get you back on the road soon!

[Putt-Putt]

i disagree because my bike caught fire and was saved for the most part, but BRP didn't send a tech out to investigate personally nor did they request my bike to be sent in. these jokers had the dealer send them pictures of the damage HINT HINT they either don't give a f_ck or they don't give a sh*t...

sorry to b so anal but my bike was only 2 months old with 1700 miles and all they offered to do was fix it..


Really sorry to here about you bike. I know if it were me it happened to I'd be pizzd too. Nobody figures in the lost time the inconvience this causes or the extra expense to the owner. It's easy to sit back and be real calm & collected when it's not your bike. Even if it is just a few if it happened to, you would feel a little different were it yours.:(

[bone crusher]

Sorry, but I must disagree with your numbers.

You are talking about 10,000 total spyders - and we have no idea how many out of 10,000 have caught on fire - we only know how many have burnt from the membership out here. Your .0007 chance based on 10,000 is assuming that no one outside of this website has had a fire.

The fair way to look at these numbers is:

There are around 3,000 members here - and I don't believe all 3,000 are still around or even owned Spyders. We know of 6 confirmed fires out of these 3,000 'possible' Spyder owners.

That is 1 out of every 500 - or .005%... at best.

If you check the NHTSA - you will only find around 8 reports of steering failures - and BRP only received around 14 total (including those 8) reports.

So 14 out of 13,000 Spyders in North America was cause enough for a safety recall. That is one out of every 900.

If we get more owners to take the time and report this to the NHTSA - I have no doubt a recall will be done. BRP has had similar fire related recalls in the past - one was due to gas lines rubbing on engine heads.

Fire,

Actually, the only true number of fires is the one that is reported to the NHTSA. It's like if a tree falls in the middle of a forest, does it make noise?

Until they are reported, they don't exist, at least as far as BRP and the gov't go...

Therefore, the numbers are 3 total (is that the number reported?)...out of how many bikes?...so, the ratio is even lower.

If this were a JD Power and Assoc. rating, the Spyder would probably do quite well...as it's total complaints out of 1000 vehicles...the fire issue probably wouldn't even make it to the list...

Anyway, I agree that everyone who has a problem needs to report it...but if they don't, unfortunately, the problem doesn't exist for the people who would need to deal with it...

[Roaddog2]

No one can deny that there are issues with at least a few Spyders.

Still, from everything that I know and the BRP people I've met I am convinced they are on our side.

You can be assured BRP is not ignoring any of these issues. They have an approach that may not thrill us as we want answers and solutions yesterday. As great as that would be it just isn't the way things work.

A corporation just isn't going to jump out and do something until they have a pretty good consensus from all departsments as to what needs to be done. That isn't necessarily bad. Especially if they get it right the 1st time.

I'm not saying that we need to blindly trust anyone to take care of everything. BRP or the dealerships. Just that we need to give them some benefit of the doubt along the way.

Beating them up should be the last resort.:agree:

[Questions]

I'm curious how many people have actually dealt with BRP before the Spyder.

[spyder08]

:roflblack::clap:

[Firefly]

Fire,

Actually, the only true number of fires is the one that is reported to the NHTSA. It's like if a tree falls in the middle of a forest, does it make noise?

Until they are reported, they don't exist, at least as far as BRP and the gov't go...

Therefore, the numbers are 3 total (is that the number reported?)...out of how many bikes?...so, the ratio is even lower.

If this were a JD Power and Assoc. rating, the Spyder would probably do quite well...as it's total complaints out of 1000 vehicles...the fire issue probably wouldn't even make it to the list...

Anyway, I agree that everyone who has a problem needs to report it...but if they don't, unfortunately, the problem doesn't exist for the people who would need to deal with it...

Yup-- which is why I've been pushing hard for people to report these problems.

[WackyDan]

Ok ok.... I didn't say I always had great ideas...:shemademe_smilie:

I'll book mark it for some other time though. :)

[bone crusher]

Ok ok.... I didn't say I always had great ideas...:shemademe_smilie:

I'll book mark it for some other time though. :)

You're funny...that approach would be warranted if BRP totally disregarded our complaints and we were losing spyderlovers daily to incineration! :yikes:

[WackyDan]

You're funny...that approach would be warranted if BRP totally disregarded our complaints and we were losing spyderlovers daily to incineration! :yikes:

Where did I ever suggest that Spyderlovers were catching on fire?:roflblack:

[SSPSpyder]

Lets see - recent fire issues, steering, parking brake, DPS, GPS, locking in gear, lack of dealerships locally, lackadaisical customer support from BRP - we should ignore these and just ride? Easier said than done. How many of those defending BRP would change their tune if any of the above happened to them? Almost all I think.

If I was intending to buy a Spyder for its resale value, I would have put it in storage the day I brought it home. Since this is not the case (I would guess most of you would agree) why would we want to keep the problems a secret? Don't we all want to ride, safely, as much as we can?

By my arithmetic, approximately 1/4 to 1/3 of the total Spyder owners worldwide belong to Spyderlovers.com - so the number of fires, steering problems, etc. reported here should be multiplied by 3 - 4.

Just aski'n, not diss'n.

[Roger]

The best thing that came out of the few fire posts that we have had. Think about all the spyders that have been saved because people went back and check their fuel filter lines or stopped filling the gastank so full or checked their electrical connections for any mods they have done or the evap cannister. The point of all of this is cooler calmer heads must prevail. :chat:

[WackyDan]

The best thing that came out of the few fire posts that we have had. Think about all the spyders that have been saved because people went back and check their fuel filter lines or stopped filling the gastank so full or checked their electrical connections for any mods they have done or the evap cannister. The point of all of this is cooler calmer heads must prevail. :chat:

Very true. I did the same and would be oblivious if not for Spyderlovers.com

[nater1]

Just do it.

I would like to see if they give some good attention like file suit for some BS stuff over, and over with no real intention to win a case. But have you spend $25,000 or more over the next ten years just to screw with you back. It happen all the time. When a big company has lawyers on the pay roll it costs the same to have them sit around, and screw with you.

Welcome to Business the American way.

[jimmykjimmy]

I would not do this. That kind of action could Snowball into something more than you wanted. If it would get out of hand (More rumor than fact) and people wouldn't buy the product (remember the Chevy Corvair) BRP would take it off the market and you would loose your investment also. I say let BRP handle the problems, we just need to be sure that they are reported factually.:lecturef_smilie:IMHO


Michael:doorag:

Certainly good advice. We need to cool our jets, report the problems to BRP and follow through if we fail to get answers.

[Firefly]

I think we should give BRP a chance to find and fix the problem before going down the path of 'trashing' them on youtube.

If nothing has been done within another 6-12 months and the fires continue to happen---- then this might be an option--- but a last resort in my opinion.

I pulled the stupid evap can----- which I think may be a contributing factor.

[Tripod]

Wacky,

There is precedent in your idea about publicizing what's going on with the Spyder fires. The Pinto mess languished for about four years until a major story and expose was published by Mother Jones magazine which created a national awareness and outrage. It was instrumental in forcing Ford to fess up and issue a major recall. Like everything else, timing is everything. I'm not sure BRP is stonewalling... but, I'd sure like to hear something in the near future.

Tripod :joke:

[WackyDan]

Wacky,

There is precedent in your idea about publicizing what's going on with the Spyder fires. The Pinto mess languished for about four years until a major story and expose was published by Mother Jones magazine which created a national awareness and outrage. It was instrumental in forcing Ford to fess up and issue a major recall. Like everything else, timing is everything. I'm not sure BRP is stonewalling... but, I'd sure like to hear something in the near future.

Tripod :joke:

I hear you. I'm in no rush. Other than carrying fire fighting gear and letting the Spyder cool down some before bringing her in the garage... Well, it is no biggy. If a few more months and a few more spyders go up in smoke , then we may have to make a statement that way... It is just an idea, not an absolute nessesity at this point.

I do appreciate everyone's feedback on it though. -Keeping me sane. :P

[Tom in NM]

I do appreciate everyone's feedback on it though. -Keeping me sane. :P

. . . . that is what friends are for.

. . . . also why you have so many. It is a thankless and tough job, but we are happy to do it. ;)

Tom

[DannyS]

I went to the BRP web site two or three days ago to see if there was a release date on the 2010 line-up there was not. But it asked me to take a short survey. So I did it is only about 5 questions long about how I didn't, I mean how I liked the web site. One question was did you find what you were looking for. I responded no so it have me a comment block. So I said I was looking for the 2010 line-up and if there was any info on the problems people were having with the ECM up-date, OR IF THERE WAS ANY ANSWERS TO THE LISTINGS OF SPYDERS CATCHING FIRE.
I am sure that if you go you will be asked to do the survey also. So go several times if need be. I was logged in so you may also need to be logged in. It is a chance to keep asking the question until we get an answer. Remember be civil you catch more bees with honey.:spyder:

[krb1945]

fords and as I recall Ford got off their collective butts and issued a recall and installed a fused wire harness. I know this to be fact because three of mine were in the recall and ford recalled quickly.

Where as... it is a known fact that many of these spyders have fuel lines, oil lines and electrical wires touching or within fractions of an inch of the exhaust manifold and several have fuel lines rubbing on the cylinder heads and other areas. Oh... by the way two of the three spyders I own are in this catagory.

And as of this date I have neither seen or heard anything out of BRP via the dealer or direct mail advising me or any one else to check machines for these deficiencies or that they would modify them to correct a major safety defect.

I fixed mine myself because I did not want to burn the garage, house or my spyders and goldwings.

Anyone that doesn't think fuel, oil and electrical on or near exhaust headers, cylinders heads or cylinders needs to revisit their high school for an update on the science of heat transference or melting points for rubber. Or do they still teach science in high school these days?

Now I'll get off my soap box.

[Motza]

I couldn't have said it better myself, Scotty. Yes, this machine isn't perfect by no means but it is a fun machine and it still makes me smile every time I kick it into gear and crack the throttle. I think this machine is still in it's early infinite stages of quirks but, for the most part it's a good machine. In time they will fix the situations we are worried about. The owners are giving BRP feedback on it's problems and thats' what they need. If they don't take care of the problems, they will lose the fight and the product will go away. Hang in there Spyder riders, we will prevail.
WELL SAID ... :agree:

[effgjamis]

Rather than beat up BRP on the fire issue, I would rather have BRP resolve the surge cause by their sofware update, post haste... I think they caused more of an issue the the Percentage factor of fires.
Just an ole man's opinion..

[jwfranklin]

Rather than beat up BRP on the fire issue, I would rather have BRP resolve the surge cause by their sofware update, post haste... I think they caused more of an issue the the Percentage factor of fires.
Just an ole man's opinion..
:agree:

Another old man's opinion

[Firefly]

fords and as I recall Ford got off their collective butts and issued a recall and installed a fused wire harness. I know this to be fact because three of mine were in the recall and ford recalled quickly.

Where as... it is a known fact that many of these spyders have fuel lines, oil lines and electrical wires touching or within fractions of an inch of the exhaust manifold and several have fuel lines rubbing on the cylinder heads and other areas. Oh... by the way two of the three spyders I own are in this catagory.

And as of this date I have neither seen or heard anything out of BRP via the dealer or direct mail advising me or any one else to check machines for these deficiencies or that they would modify them to correct a major safety defect.

I fixed mine myself because I did not want to burn the garage, house or my spyders and goldwings.

Anyone that doesn't think fuel, oil and electrical on or near exhaust headers, cylinders heads or cylinders needs to revisit their high school for an update on the science of heat transference or melting points for rubber. Or do they still teach science in high school these days?

Now I'll get off my soap box.

Ford's real problem was that they knew they could catch fire - and went with a cheaper tank and straps anyway. Their numbers people actually calculated how many deaths they should have and figured out how much that would run them as compared to going with better tanks and parts.

This went on for quite some time. Ford also did the same thing regarding rear seatbelts in some models that didn't have shoulder harnesses.

Sad that they can so quickly put a number on how many lives is worth X amount of money instead of fixing a product.

BRP has dealt with fire issues before--- so I'm a bit shocked this one slipped by them---

Time will tell.

[Putt-Putt]

I don't know if letting BRP go, on this is right or wrong. We have talked about Ford & thier problems and there are other companies that have had problems and do nothing about it unless they have (forced) to.
Here is just an example that happened to me involving a Pacemaker. The pacemaker co. knew they had bad pacemaker leads but went ahead and let it on the market anyway. They addmitted it in the news paper as well as on TV.
The pacemaker co. stated they would rather absorb the law suits; it would be cheaper than totally remanufacture (correct) the problem. Yes I sued and I won.
So co's. don't necessarly automaticlly fix problems on thier own. And there was some that died because of this.

[bun-1]

I really don't think we should let BRP off the hook so easily because until it happens to one of you guys/gals you really wouldn't know the sh*tty feeling that I have toward this company. My :spyder:only two months old caught fire and the only thing BRP could say is their might have been a foriegn object that caused the fire. WTF. But needless to say they wouldn't take the blame for this so called foriegn object. Being that I saved my :spyder:for the most part one would think these guys would have personally come and take a look to see what may be causing the fires to prevent future fires, but what did they do? Have the dealer send them pictures as if the picture could give them a clear eye's view!!! And you guys want to wait it out.

On the other hand BRP is willing to fix my two month old :spyder: but have no idea what to fix inorder to prevent the fire, it figures... And they expect me to take it back:roflblack:. Then my insurance company (progressive) won't get involved due to the fact that it is manufacture defect ain't that bout a b*tch. So now I'm on my last leg with these guys and looking into legal help.

Don't mean to step on anyone toes!!!

[Arachnid]

Rather than beat up BRP on the fire issue, I would rather have BRP resolve the surge cause by their sofware update, post haste... I think they caused more of an issue the the Percentage factor of fires.
Just an ole man's opinion..
Ho Boy
Now the update is causing problem!:dontknow:
Jeesh, I got to stop reading this and just ride.
Mike:gaah:

[Tom in NM]

Bun-1, I hope this mess gets to a happy ending for you - soon. It sounds to me like you have already gone through more than enough grief.

I find your insurance agents response of "manufacture defect" strange. Do you know what they based that on? The fire could have been lots of things. A faulty part ( not a manufacturing defect ), the service tech could have left a foreign and combustible object, like an oily rag, in the engine compartment, maybe they disconnected something and missed connecting it or capping it off correctly. And yes, it could be a manufacturing defect - but how do they know? What is their proof? If they are denying you coverage based on that, I would think they would have to tell you what the defect is. Is that even in your policy as something that they will not cover? At least they didn't say that they consider it was an act of God or the opening rounds of a War with Canada.

I am no expert, but I think that for the parties involved (including you) this is a matter of Loss Of Property. Progressive is there (given the terms of your contract) to insure your loss of property. Your dealer is there to service your property in a way that will insure its condition to specification and road-worthiness. BRP made the product/property. And you have suffered a loss of property. Each of you have other factors that will effect your approach. If that sounds cold or overly calculating and lacking in "fairness" - it is, but I think that is the way it is. It may help if you think about it in these terms - which I know is easier said than done.

I thought about what you said about "if this happened to me - I would feel different". I would be disappointed, frustrated, and angry. But, I would take BRP up on their offer to fix the Spyder and bring it back to the same condition it was when it caught on fire. I would also ask that they warranty the repairs by including the Best Extended Warranty.

I come from a background of Automobile Body Shops owned by my family. I never owned a "new" vehicle until I was in my late 30s - so my MGs, Volkswagens, Porches and so on, were all restored from wrecks and fires. They were all great and I never had a problem with them. So my perspective is fix it and enjoy it. I understand if you do not feel the same way. If you cannot get to that frame of mind, then work to get your money back from your lost property - hopefully at an amount you will feel that you are properly compensated for your loss.

I hope you are able to get to that place soon, whichever path you take.

Tom

( and if Progressive ever comes up with what the manufacturing defect is, I hope you will share it with SpyderLovers )

[bun-1]

[quote=Tom in NM;133205]
I thought about what you said about "if this happened to me - I would feel different". I would be disappointed, frustrated, and angry. But, I would take BRP up on their offer to fix the Spyder and bring it back to the same condition it was when it caught on fire. I would also ask that they warranty the repairs by including the Best Extended Warranty.

I think I'd be a fool getting back on the same spyder knowing that it is defective and the manufacture nor the dealer can diagnose the problem to fix. Anyway I bought a new bike and I think replacing my bike with a new one is more than reasonable considering the fact my current bike could be used to research and diagnose the problem for the safety of all spyder owners.

[WaltH]

I really don't think we should let BRP off the hook so easily because until it happens to one of you guys/gals you really wouldn't know the sh*tty feeling that I have toward this company. My :spyder:only two months old caught fire and the only thing BRP could say is their might have been a foriegn object that caused the fire. WTF. But needless to say they wouldn't take the blame for this so called foriegn object. Being that I saved my :spyder:for the most part one would think these guys would have personally come and take a look to see what may be causing the fires to prevent future fires, but what did they do? Have the dealer send them pictures as if the picture could give them a clear eye's view!!! And you guys want to wait it out.

On the other hand BRP is willing to fix my two month old :spyder: but have no idea what to fix inorder to prevent the fire, it figures... And they expect me to take it back:roflblack:. Then my insurance company (progressive) won't get involved due to the fact that it is manufacture defect ain't that bout a b*tch. So now I'm on my last leg with these guys and looking into legal help.

Don't mean to step on anyone toes!!!

My fire was the first one that we knew about in this community (there were prior fires) and we had no idea there would be more. There was no evidence then of a factory defect. A fire in itself is not proof of a manufacturing defect. We will never know what caused my fire.

My insurance company (Foremost) paid off within days and I signed over my rights to pursue any claims against BRP. If there were a manufacturing defect, the insurance company would have to make the claim. They chose not to go there. This is why I have insurance.

I don't know how your insurance company can know there is a manufacturing defect. It is a moot point if BRP repairs the Spyder. In that case you have no loss on which to make a claim.

If I were you, I would let BRP repair the Spyder. If they do a good job, you will not be able to tell there ever was a fire and you will not have a claim on your insurance record.

I understand your frustration. My fire was an emtional experience for me too. At first I struggled with the question of whether I would even replace the Spyder. I was able to get past that and eleven days after the fire I took delivery of Spyder#2.

I am happy with Spyder#2, but I wish BRP would find the real cause of these fires. Until this happens I will not feel secure.

[SSPSpyder]

I love my Spyder, and I appreciate all the views people have expressed on this topic, BUT...

After spending $20,000 (Spyder + accessories) I should NOT have to:

sit and watch it for 30 minutes every time I finish riding waiting for it to catch fire, while riding be preoccupied with the chance it will suddenly veer off course and run me and it head-on into another vehicle or off the road into a tree, wonder when a relay will go haywire, carry spare parts, or replace parts (GPS, ground wire) on a brand-new vehicle myself.

When I picked-up my Spyder from the dealer at purchase, I jumped on and rode, just enjoying the ride, no worries. I can't say the same today.
:(
:mad:

[bun-1]

My fire was the first one that we knew about in this community (there were prior fires) and we had no idea there would be more. There was no evidence then of a factory defect. A fire in itself is not proof of a manufacturing defect. We will never know what caused my fire.

My insurance company (Foremost) paid off within days and I signed over my rights to pursue any claims against BRP. If there were a manufacturing defect, the insurance company would have to make the claim. They chose not to go there. This is why I have insurance.

I don't know how your insurance company can know there is a manufacturing defect. It is a moot point if BRP repairs the Spyder. In that case you have no loss on which to make a claim.

If I were you, I would let BRP repair the Spyder. If they do a good job, you will not be able to tell there ever was a fire and you will not have a claim on your insurance record.

I understand your frustration. My fire was an emtional experience for me too. At first I struggled with the question of whether I would even replace the Spyder. I was able to get past that and eleven days after the fire I took delivery of Spyder#2.

I am happy with Spyder#2, but I wish BRP would find the real cause of these fires. Until this happens I will not feel secure.

so my question to you is what will they repair other than what they can tell is burn. So the problem still could possibly exsist and I could possibly get hurt this time. I'm sure if they were so certain that they can fix it and assure that it would be safe they wouldn't mind taking it back and replacing it. They could use it as a demo but why burn a potential customer when they already burnt me :lecturef_smilie:. My point is how do you fix a problem that has yet to be diagnosed due to the fact that they could not send a BRP tech down to identify the problem since the bike was saved.

[Tom in NM]

I think I'd be a fool getting back on the same spyder knowing that it is defective and the manufacture nor the dealer can diagnose the problem to fix. Anyway I bought a new bike and I think replacing my bike with a new one is more than reasonable considering the fact my current bike could be used to research and diagnose the problem for the safety of all spyder owners.

Bun-1, I think your feelings are completely understandable. When everything is said and done, your level of happiness is what you live with, nobody else.

As for feeling like a fool, I know I wouldn't, but what I feel is not important. I have done plenty of things where I ended up feeling foolish. Now days, I work hard and feel successful if I think something I have done turns out to be "just adequate".

And thanks for keeping the rest of us Spyder riders in mind. I for one, am keeping you in mind and hoping you get back to where you were before this all happened.

Tom

[gladdy's spyder]

Just joined you all a week ago, what's this about fire. My Spyder does get hot at the area where my right leg is but we thought that was just the nature of the beast. My husbands Harley is hot too, I've always complained about it so thought this is just my motorcycles are. What causes the fires??

[WaltH]

so my question to you is what will they repair other than what they can tell is burn. So the problem still could possibly exsist and I could possibly get hurt this time. I'm sure if they were so certain that they can fix it and assure that it would be safe they wouldn't mind taking it back and replacing it. They could use it as a demo but why burn a potential customer when they already burnt me :lecturef_smilie:. My point is how do you fix a problem that has yet to be diagnosed due to the fact that they could not send a BRP tech down to identify the problem since the bike was saved.

They did not inspect my Spyder either. Mine was a total, total loss. There was nothing to look at. I wish they had inspected yours. It might tell us something. Three or four of the fires were a complete loss. Some of the partial loss fires were also so badly burned that they may not have yielded much information. Yours was probably the best one to look at because you got to the fire quickly. I cannot figure out what BRP is thinking.

When your Spyder is repaired it will be just as safe, or not safe, as another brand new one. They cannot repair the cause of the fire because it is unknown. I believe every Spyder coming off the production line has the same chance as my original Spyder had of burning to the ground. Spyder#2 is not inherently safer than Spyder#1. However, I have taken some steps to make Spyder#2 safer in my hands.

I have installed a Kuryakyn breather tank to collect the oil from the crankcase breather tube. This keeps the oil out of the airbox, and thereby, it is not being splattered all over the front of the engine. Spyder#1 had quiet a bit of oil where it should not have been (36,500 miles). This was potentially a source of fire material.

I push the gas filler nozzle down into the tank at least four to six inches. I stop filling the tank at the first shut-off. I do not try to top-off the tank. Hopefully, this will keep raw gasoline out of the carbon canister. As you can tell from reading recent posts, the carbon canister is a major, major suspect in the fires.

I intend to take further steps including possibly eliminating the carbon canister and rerouting the vent tube from the filler cap area to the ground.

I believe these steps are making me safer. I will not be comfortable, however, until BRP finds the real cause of the fires. I will be very happy to make whatever changes they recommend.

Harleys sold outside of California do not have carbon canisters. If you accidentally over fill the gas tank the excess runs down a vent tube to the ground.