Engine oil capacity differences between 2019 & 2020?

[SportsterDoc]

For 900
The 2019 owner's manual (available on-line) indicates engine oil capacity as 3.2L (3.38 quarts)
The 2020 owner's manual indicates engine oil capacity as 2.8L (2.96 quarts)

Was there a change or is one of the manuals incorrect?

It is not winter, in the northern hemisphere, so this is NOT an oil thread!

[SportsterDoc]

Photos of manual attached for comparison.

[canamryder]

Photos of manual attached for comparison.

This is going to blow your mind....My manual states Ryker 600 2.75qts. & Ryker 900 3.7 qts. I will stick to 3.7qts. This is from the manual that came with MY Ryker. At last CORRECT oil level check (unless that has changed also) ...Read label by fill funnel. My fill level was about 5/8 distance up the OK area. I think Amazon sells oil change kits with 3.5 qts. Maybe that's if you don't change the oil filter and clean the bottom of the canister, but who wouldn't do that? Better on low side than too full according to Shawn >>
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheSmoaks/videos

[Peter Aawen]

Clearly, you're all over-thinking this too much!! :shocked: :lecturef_smilie:

Look at the pics again, and especially at top of the table in Sportster Doc's Pic 2 ;) The chart in Pic 1 is definitive, it states definite levels/quantities; BUT the chart in Pic 2 only details APPROXIMATE quantities; so I guess, after putting in the indicated 'approximate amount', you obviously just hafta use the 'best guess' method from there on in! :gaah:



:rolleyes: It could be a :joke: ..... if only it wasn't such a common occurrence :dontknow:


As it is, it's really becoming a running sore instead, but it does drive home one thing.... you just can't ever trust the quantities shown in BRP Manuals! nojoke

[SportsterDoc]

2.6 liters or 2.75 quarts for 600 coincides with 2019 on-line manual.

But 2019 manual indicates 3.2 liters or 3.38 quarts for 900.

Previous research indicated 3 1/2 quarts for 900 ACE, but my 2020 manual is 2.8 L or 2.96 quarts.

For first oil change, it seems best to fill with 3 quarts, check level, then add.

Sportsters are dry sump, but oil bag is higher and level can be easily checked with oil bag dipstick. It will simply read a tad low, when cold.

With the Ryker, the admonishment of checking within 10 seconds of shutoff is not an exaggeration.

[SportsterDoc]

Peter
Sportsters hold 2.8 quarts, but H-D in at least one manual indicated more (3.5, if memory correct).

If overfilled, a prolonged run at 80 MPH will puke oil all over the ham can.

Moto-Guzzi is worse, they revise manuals, but miss several needed revisions...and there are issues with their specified capacities:

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=92133.30

[bikerbillone]

Egads, this is an enigma wrapped in a mystery. Would not all 20 Rotax engines be built the same with the same oil capacity? Overthinking usually gets me into trouble. In my GoldWing days this was a constant thread, how to change the oil and get right amount back into the engine. The thing held 3.9 quarts, simple procedure, run to operating temp drain it overnight, add four quarts and ride, never ever saw one drip on the floor. I know I'm probably missing something here and someone will explain it; I'm aware there must be 'some' oil left in those upper chambers of the engine after an over night drain, but how much can that be, enough for an overfill? Maybe I need to ask Shane Smoak how he does it.

[SportsterDoc]

600, 900 and 1330 do have different oil capacities.

If the 2019 manual was correct for the Ryker 900 (3.38 quarts) and according to several posts, it is, then why did Can Am revise the 2020 manual to 2.96 quarts for the 900???

This is not about how to change the oil, it is asking why there is a difference between 2019 and 2020 Can Am manuals on an engine that does not appear to have changes.

Furthermore, according to the below info from another website, BRP has frequently made corrections in the past due to informational errors...so is the 2020 manual a correct update?

First, to avoid any confusion, here is the official, correct information:

There is currently - as on June 23rd 2015 - only 1 1330 ACE engine configuration available. 2014/15 RT and 2015 F3 all have the same engine.
The required oil fill amount when changing oil and oil filter on the SE6 engine is 4.7L or 5.0Qt.
An oil quantity correction was made after production to avoid adding too much oil after an oil change and have to siphon it out rather than add oil to correct the level. During an oil change the amount of oil removed and needed to be added is never exactly the same, this is why a recommended amount to be added initially is given and then the procedure to verify the final level is used. A new dipstick is not necessary since the oil level in the oil tank doesn’t change, only the method of adding the initial amount before final level verification. In other words, it's easier to add more oil if you underfill than to remove excess oil if you overfill.
Service bulletin 2014-7 “Shop Manual Modifications” was published August 2014 indicating changes to the PDF (web) version which included Engine Oil Level Verification and Engine Oil and Oil Filter Change.
It is normal for a small engine, which includes a wet clutch and gearbox sharing the same oil, to shear down 20-30% within 1000-1500 miles but this shear flattens out and stabilizes for the remaining normal use interval. The 1330 ACE engine has been extensively tested to guarantee that 9300 miles is a safe oil change interval.

Now, there are places where we'll have to make sure we update our instructions - evidently, we missed a couple:

On page 126 of the 2014 RT Operator's Guide, Issue 219 001 219, the required oil fill amount when changing oil and oil filter on the SE6 engine is 5.3L or 5.6Qt - Information incorrect - will be updated with new quantities – PDF (web) version.
On page 129 of the 2015 F3 Operator's Guide, Issue 219 001 534, the required oil fill amount when changing oil and oil filter on the SE6 engine is 5.6L or 5.9Qt - Information incorrect - will be updated with new quantities – PDF (web) version.
On page 161 of the 2014 RT Operator's Guide and page 165 of the 2015 RT Operator's Guide the API service categories SL, SJ, SH, SG are listed for the engine. On page 129 of the F3 Operator's Guide API service categories SL, SJ, SM, SN are listed for the engine. Are service categories SM and SN acceptable for the 2014 and 2015 RT engines? Publication error as shop manual specifications remain API service categories SL, SJ, SH, SG.

[Markubis]

Photos of manual attached for comparison.

3 quarts it is then!

[JayBros]

An interesting point about Sportsterdoc's explanation is that in the bottom paragraph wherein the 2014 RT Operator's Guide, Issue 210001219, is mentioned and the incorrect oil fill amount is quoted and BRP allegedly says, "will be updated with new quantities - PDF (web) version" has yet to happen. Issue 219001219 is the hard copy version of the OG I received when I picked up my Spyder in Oct. 2014. It is also the identical Issue I downloaded to my computer in Oct 2014, and is still the current web version I am reading from as I write this post. Moral of the story: If you believe BRP is seriously concerned about updating incorrect information in OGs, look out your nearest window and you'll see a pig fly by.

[canamryder]

600, 900 and 1330 do have different oil capacities.

If the 2019 manual was correct for the Ryker 900 (2.38 quarts) and according to several posts, it is, then why did Can Am revise the 2020 manual to 2.96 quarts for the 900???

This is not about how to change the oil, it is asking why there is a difference between 2019 and 2020 Can Am manuals on an engine that does not appear to have changes.

Furthermore, according to the below info from another website, BRP has frequently made corrections in the past due to informational errors...so is the 2020 manual a correct update?

First, to avoid any confusion, here is the official, correct information:

There is currently - as on June 23rd 2015 - only 1 1330 ACE engine configuration available. 2014/15 RT and 2015 F3 all have the same engine.
The required oil fill amount when changing oil and oil filter on the SE6 engine is 4.7L or 5.0Qt.
An oil quantity correction was made after production to avoid adding too much oil after an oil change and have to siphon it out rather than add oil to correct the level. During an oil change the amount of oil removed and needed to be added is never exactly the same, this is why a recommended amount to be added initially is given and then the procedure to verify the final level is used. A new dipstick is not necessary since the oil level in the oil tank doesn’t change, only the method of adding the initial amount before final level verification. In other words, it's easier to add more oil if you underfill than to remove excess oil if you overfill.
Service bulletin 2014-7 “Shop Manual Modifications” was published August 2014 indicating changes to the PDF (web) version which included Engine Oil Level Verification and Engine Oil and Oil Filter Change.
It is normal for a small engine, which includes a wet clutch and gearbox sharing the same oil, to shear down 20-30% within 1000-1500 miles but this shear flattens out and stabilizes for the remaining normal use interval. The 1330 ACE engine has been extensively tested to guarantee that 9300 miles is a safe oil change interval.

Now, there are places where we'll have to make sure we update our instructions - evidently, we missed a couple:

On page 126 of the 2014 RT Operator's Guide, Issue 219 001 219, the required oil fill amount when changing oil and oil filter on the SE6 engine is 5.3L or 5.6Qt - Information incorrect - will be updated with new quantities – PDF (web) version.
On page 129 of the 2015 F3 Operator's Guide, Issue 219 001 534, the required oil fill amount when changing oil and oil filter on the SE6 engine is 5.6L or 5.9Qt - Information incorrect - will be updated with new quantities – PDF (web) version.
On page 161 of the 2014 RT Operator's Guide and page 165 of the 2015 RT Operator's Guide the API service categories SL, SJ, SH, SG are listed for the engine. On page 129 of the F3 Operator's Guide API service categories SL, SJ, SM, SN are listed for the engine. Are service categories SM and SN acceptable for the 2014 and 2015 RT engines? Publication error as shop manual specifications remain API service categories SL, SJ, SH, SG.

The original thread was about 600/900, 2019/2020 Ryker Manual oil capacities. Now it's 2014 2015 RT,F3, 1330 Ace. This is too much over thinking. I'll just stick to what my manual states that came with my 2019 Ryker Rally, 3.7 VERY MAX qts does not overfill my Ryker. I would just go by what your manual states, check oil correctly, and if the oil level on dip stick reads low or high adjust from that.

[SportsterDoc]

3 quarts it is then!

I will start with 3, run engine, then be prepared to add 1/2 quart.

[JayBros]

My apology for getting overexcited about the errors in a six year old operator's guide. Absolutely no intent to hijack the thread. One is always safe to start with the minimum fill amount and add carefully as needed. I do it on every change.

[SportsterDoc]

No issue with your post 10, Jay.
Just trying to figure why 2020 manual is different.
Intentional or error?
Not a failure to update type of error.

[JayBros]

It's easier to criticize than do, but based on my watching Spyder Operator's Guides hit the street since 2014 it appears to me the approach BRP takes to the job is, "Just take last year's guide, change what needs changing and push it out the door," when in fact the plan of attack should be to create a fresh document each year and, most important, have it thoroughly reviewed, edited and corrected as necessary by the engineers who designed and manufactured the machines.

[SportsterDoc]

The 2020 900 ACE took 3 quarts, yesterday, to bring level up to full mark on dipstick.
I took a photo, but oil too clear to show upon dipstick in that photo.

Double checked oil level after today's ride and it is at the full mark.

The one gallon milk jug contains what drained from the engine AND the transmission.

Regardless of the quantity, I would not want to go another 4,800 miles on the engine oil to 6,000 miles or another 10,800 on the transmission oil to 12,000 miles, even if I were not looking to upgrade the engine to 10W50 and the trans to 75W140.

[chris56]

I got 3,5 liters when I changed by 6.000 miles on my 2019 ans also now on the 12.000 service ..(needed no extra oil in this time)
my dealer told me that the oil in the gearbox looked very "gray" so I will change it now each 6.000 miles - on the other side he said the oil tin the shaft-drive looked still "golden" like new, after 12.000 miles

[SportsterDoc]

Still have not figured out why a difference between 2019 and 2020.

Condition of your gearbox oil coincides with my experience at only 1200 miles. If yours was changed early, wonder how golden it would look at 12,000 miles?

Final drive does not seem to generate the same level of impurities.

[canamryder]

The 2020 900 ACE took 3 quarts, yesterday, to bring level up to full mark on dipstick.
I took a photo, but oil too clear to show upon dipstick in that photo.

Double checked oil level after today's ride and it is at the full mark.

The one gallon milk jug contains what drained from the engine AND the transmission.

Regardless of the quantity, I would not want to go another 4,800 miles on the engine oil to 6,000 miles or another 10,800 on the transmission oil to 12,000 miles, even if I were not looking to upgrade the engine to 10W50 and the trans to 75W140.

I ordered one gallon of the XPS gearbox oil from Amazon. Due next Monday. Living in Northern Illinois I stuck with the standard 104 degree oil. Buying a gallon is much cheaper than buying a quart or two, in the long run. It's starting to look like the gearbox oil should be changed sooner than the manual says. I'm on the fence on tackling the final drive oil. Most likely safer to remove the rear wheel so no oil gets on the disc. I don't have a breaker bar yet though.

[SportsterDoc]

It's starting to look like the gearbox oil should be changed sooner than the manual says

At least for the first service.

Even if purchased by the quart it is only about $10 of 75W140 or maybe $5 for BRP XPS 5W40.

[SportsterDoc]

Duplicated post.
Moderator please delete

[SportsterDoc]

I'm on the fence on tackling the final drive oil. Most likely safer to remove the rear wheel so no oil gets on the disc. I don't have a breaker bar yet though.

I got none on the disc and a shot of brake cleaner would have removed it.
I was hesitating, expecting to wait until time for a new tire, but it was not difficult.

Entering through the disc slot (for check/fill plug) was a bit tight with an 8mm hex bit on 3/8" drive extension, but doable. Once broken loose, I used the hex bit, without the extension to finish removing the plug.

I checked the capacity of the Tupperware container before using it.
It fit on the inside of the wheel under the check/fill plug.
Only a couple drops came out when plug removed.

Had I the forethought to elevate the container, when moved under drain and when drain plug removed, there would have been less splash...but hopefully others will learn from my oversight. Also, should have moved wires and brake line behind tab, first. Brake cleaner cleaned up wires and brake line. A household degreaser (Dawn) removed splatter from tire sidewall.

Inserting tube into fill port was easy, but I made sure it was past the final step.

Home Depot has 3/8" OD, 1/4" ID clear vinyl tubing, 10 feet for $3.36, to flow from 1 quart bottle to final drive.

It fits on spout if spout is not cut too short and the other end fit into fill port well.

I did not change the o-rings, as they only were in service 1200 miles/5 weeks.

[Tslepebull]

Ok, I have seen several references on to 5W40 engine oil up to 104 degrees and some increase in viscosity above that. Where did that standard come from? I have been through the 2019 and 2020 Ryker owners manuals several times and have not found any viscosity/temperature range table. I had specifically looked for one because every other bike I have ever had showed a similar table in the owners manual?

Am I missing something? I had my oil and filter changed by the dealer (presumably with the BRP stuff) at my 3,000 mile inspection. I am intending to switch to a full synthetic 5W40 when I do my own service unless there is a better choice.

[SportsterDoc]

Ok, I have seen several references on to 5W40 engine oil up to 104 degrees and some increase in viscosity above that. Where did that standard come from? I have been through the 2019 and 2020 Ryker owners manuals several times and have not found any viscosity/temperature range table. I had specifically looked for one because every other bike I have ever had showed a similar table in the owners manual?

Am I missing something? I had my oil and filter changed by the dealer (presumably with the BRP stuff) at my 3,000 mile inspection. I am intending to switch to a full synthetic 5W40 when I do my own service unless there is a better choice.

I may be the only one referencing the 104 F.
It is not in 2019 or 2020 manual, but it is listed on the XPS site and on data where XPS is sold at Amazon, etc.

https://xpslubricants.com/us/4t-5w-40-synthetic-blend-oil

From the above link:

Powersport formula with premium anti-wear and anti-corrosion additives.
Designed for high-performance off-road, on-road and PWC 4-stroke engines, including turbo or supercharged powersports engines.
Provides superior engine and transmission protection against rust and corrosion even in extreme conditions.
Ambient temperature operating range: -31°F / 104°F (-35°C / 40°C).
779133 - 1 QT / 0.946 L
779134 - 1 US gal. / 3.785 L

[Tslepebull]

Thanks Doc, mystery solved. We don't often get temperatures above 104 here in East Texas but when we do it is way to humid and miserable to ride. I will probably stay with 5W40.

[Tslepebull]

So back to the discussion of engine oil capacity. BRP has changed the dip stick from 2019 to 2020. The dipstick for the 2019 model is yellow, has a measured distance of 6&1/2 inches from the contact point above the o-ring to the full line; part number is 420856675. For the 2020 model the dip stick is orange, has a measured distance of 7&3/8 inches from the contact point above the o-ring to the full line; part number is; 720856664.

This indicates that they have decided less oil should be added at change. It would have been nice if they had notified the purchasers of 2019 models as they warn in the owners manual against overfilling due to the possibility of engine damage.

[canamryder]

So back to the discussion of engine oil capacity. BRP has changed the dip stick from 2019 to 2020. The dipstick for the 2019 model is yellow, has a measured distance of 6&1/2 inches from the contact point above the o-ring to the full line; part number is 420856675. For the 2020 model the dip stick is orange, has a measured distance of 7&3/8 inches from the contact point above the o-ring to the full line; part number is; 720856664.

This indicates that they have decided less oil should be added at change. It would have been nice if they had notified the purchasers of 2019 models as they warn in the owners manual against overfilling due to the possibility of engine damage.

Here's a thought. Maybe the the oil filler tube is .875 longer or is not as far in? on the 2020 Ryker. The part # for the 2019 tube is 420656905. 2020 # ??

[Tslepebull]

Here's a thought. Maybe the the oil filler tube is .875 longer or is not as far in? on the 2020 Ryker. The part # for the 2019 tube is 420656905. 2020 # ??

Part number for the 2020 model is also 420656905. It appears only the dip stick was changed.

[SportsterDoc]

Tslepebull
Thank for for the clarification.
I suspect that there may have been some frothing issues with the 2019, so Can-Am reduced the fill amount by 1/2 quart and changed the dipstick accordingly.
On my first oil change at 1200 miles, switching to 10W50, I did not change the oil filter and 3 quarts was perfect.
On my second oil change at 5622 miles, I did change the oil filter.
Ended up adding a 1/4 quart to my initial 3 quart fill to reach full mark on dipstick.
Note the color of the 2020 dipstick in the CVT filter photo.

185615