Spyder group riding etiquette

[ollicat]

I have a question for you folks out there in the know. When riding motorcycles in groups, we stagger, with lead rider on the inside closest to the center lane. Then all the other riders stagger for safety reasons. What do you do if a Spyder is in the mix with other motorcycle riders? It is hard to stagger a Spyder because they are so wide. And secondly, if you are riding in a group of all Spyders, what is the safest way to travel? Do you still stagger?

Sounds like a crazy question but I was thinking about this.

[jwulf74]

We have 2 spyders and always stagger when possible...

[jcthorne]

We ride with Southern Cruisers Riding Club. Louise and I are both road captains (she is second officer for Conroe chapter). Spyders fall in formation and stagger just like other bikes do. Do be aware that some 2 wheel riders do not like to ride behind Spyders. Its not so much not being able to see, its that they have learned that Spyders can STOP very quickly. Much faster than most 2 wheelers. So be aware of this and let those that feel this way ride ahead.

[lstayner]

Our club is mainly a two wheel club with several trikes and a Spyder. Trikes should go to the back because they block a wider view than a motorcycle. The same cannot be said for the Spyder. They can be anywhere in the group. They don't block the view nearly as much as a trike. We ride staggered no matter what type of bike is in the group.

[Bfromla]

Been on few Leo escorted larger group (100+) & after a good introduction & communication briefing there is mix of two wheels & standard trikes, the two wheels would be up front & trikes in rear all staggered as normal. If someone has issues en route they pull to side & fall back to the end of line. * communication part of briefing was on what route & stops would be involved, & hand signals (pointing at obstacles/holes to avoid) not linking headsets. **

[Copperman]

I like to stagger because on a Spyder you can see farther ahead than if you were directly behind another Spyder. And that equates to being safer.

[Mazo EMS2]

Our group always staggers. It makes it easier to see what's ahead due to the size of the Spyder, and it also creates a safe zone for emergency braking or evasive actions. At stoplights, our group tries to put two on the line at once to get the line through the light easier and quicker than it would be single file.

[Grandpot]

2 wheelers up front staggered.

All trikes last in single file.

[2RTsGV]

2 wheelers up front staggered.

All trikes last in single file.

Was wondering when someone was going to say single file, below is what the manufacturers manual says:

(Page 54 2019 RTL Owners Manual)
Width
Because this vehicle is wider than a
typical motorcycle:
– Always keep the front wheels in
your lane. Be especially aware of
the front wheels location when entering in a curve or during an overtaking.
– Do not share lanes or split lanes
(ride between two lanes of traffic).
Group riding should proceed in a single file, even with motorcycles.
– Be prepared to swerve farther to
avoid obstacles

[Trbayth]

When I took the MSF 3-wheel course they said trikes in general shouldn't stagger.

That said, when I'm in a group of mixed 2 and 3 wheels, I usually stagger. When in a group of all Spyders, I'll stagger if the group is staggering, otherwise no.

[ARtraveler]

Now you know why we don't like to drive in groups with other motorcycles/Spyders/trikes. Was in a riding club for several years, and one of the road captains. Seen enough "stupid" to cure me of it.

Don't mind riding with friends, who I am familiar with though.

[jcthorne]

2 wheelers up front staggered.

All trikes last in single file.

Sorry but that is not safe nor friendly to the Spyders. We went through that phase years ago and learned the lessons. There is no need to push second class citizens to the back of the bus nor for the hard feelings it causes. It adds NO additional safety and riders with a chip on their shoulder are not safe riders.

We also found from a rubber band perspective, Spyder up front actually works better. Its also kinda dumb to push spyders to the back when half your road captains are spyder riders. Ride leader and wing are always up front and in our group, often one or both are on 3 wheels.

[KosherKid]

In our club, I ride as the tail gunner. Road Captain leading with radio and me in the back also with radio.

[Grandpot]

Sorry but that is not safe nor friendly to the Spyders. We went through that phase years ago and learned the lessons. There is no need to push second class citizens to the back of the bus nor for the hard feelings it causes. It adds NO additional safety and riders with a chip on their shoulder are not safe riders.

We also found from a rubber band perspective, Spyder up front actually works better. Its also kinda dumb to push spyders to the back when half your road captains are spyder riders. Ride leader and wing are always up front and in our group, often one or both are on 3 wheels.

It's not a matter of treating Spyders as second class citizens. Two wheelers in a staggered formation work well. If you put a trike (any trike) in the middle of that, it is disruptive. When we ride, all trikes go behind the two wheelers. The only exception is if the leader is on a trike; then it will be the lead trike, followed by two wheelers, followed by all other trikes. Sidecar units count as trikes. We have never had an issue with this protocol.

[UtahPete]

Sorry but that is not safe nor friendly to the Spyders. We went through that phase years ago and learned the lessons. There is no need to push second class citizens to the back of the bus nor for the hard feelings it causes. It adds NO additional safety and riders with a chip on their shoulder are not safe riders.

We also found from a rubber band perspective, Spyder up front actually works better. Its also kinda dumb to push spyders to the back when half your road captains are spyder riders. Ride leader and wing are always up front and in our group, often one or both are on 3 wheels.

:agree:

Faster riders in their own group separate from slower riders.

Formation riding makes no sense to me and I avoid it as much as possible.

Everybody should know the route at least to the next reconnoiter point. Friends familiar and comfortable riding together can do so, but otherwise it's "ryde your own ryde"

[ned64]

Years ago when I rode a motorcycle with a small group. There was a guy an his wife that rode a trike that wanted to ride with them. You should of heard all the complaining from guys in group about letting the trike ride with them. It is way to unsafe for them to be anywhere inside the group. They have to ride at the very back or they cant ride with them at all.. If something happens there is no way you could get around them or you cant see the road. Oh yes the trike wasnt as safe to ride as a motorcycle. Slower getting going, couldnt go as fast in the corners, cant stop as quick. It was a nice goldwing trike. I had no problem with them on the trike in front of me. If those other riders could not stop if they had to they werent paying very good attention in my book an if something happened to a bike they probaly hit it too.I rode in front of the trike too alot. But I liked being last or right in front of the last person bringing up the rear. Now I ride a spyder an the wife rides her's. I follow her sometimes an she follows me sometimes. Dont group ride anymore from the bad vibes got from those riders yrs ago. We can ride our ride's an not be told we have to be at the back. To each there own.

[Peteoz]

:agree:
Faster riders in their own group than slower riders.
Formation riding makes no sense to me and I avoid as much as possible.
Everybody should know the route at least to the next reconnoiter point. Friends familiar and comfortable riding together can do so, but otherwise it's "ryde your own ryde".

Couldn’t agree more, Pete.:thumbup:

Pete

[bikerbillone]

Pete your comment has a lot of merit, I'm always concerned bout the guy on my six, is he too close or what. Just don't ride with groups, not against it, I just done't do it anymore.

[UtahPete]

It's not a matter of treating Spyders as second class citizens. Two wheelers in a staggered formation work well. If you put a trike (any trike) in the middle of that, it is disruptive. When we ride, all trikes go behind the two wheelers. The only exception is if the leader is on a trike; then it will be the lead trike, followed by two wheelers, followed by all other trikes. Sidecar units count as trikes. We have never had an issue with this protocol.

Some people enjoy the discipline of formation riding and do it well and safely. But, I believe most Ryders, particularly relative novices and casual riders, should not attempt close formation riding, for everyone's peace of mind.

[LongIsland]

Generally our club ride single file but stagger at stops so we are not strung out too far. I've attended Americade for several years and when I first did their group rides they put all trikes at the end of the line. In the last 2 to 3 years they have them line up as they arrive no longer relegated to the rear of the congo line. I will admit I liked it better at the rear as sometimes the 2 wheelers almost lose it on some of the tighter curves. Luckily, they didn't fall at those times but it was close.

[AeroPilot]

We enjoy riding with a small group of friends including multiday trips, but as the years go by recognize that our reflexes and reaction times have changed. Mainly we just like the freedom of a more casual ride pace, and safety of groups of 4 to six at most. Just how we ride. An overall ride plan with the next leg or stop discussed and an ideas of the needs of others makes the ryde smooth.

We still use our hand signals, but are a little less bunched, but still try to keep the group from being compromised.

A couple of Senas for leader and trail and we're good to go. Different strokes for different folks.

[ARtraveler]

:agree:

Faster riders in their own group separate from slower riders.

Formation riding makes no sense to me and I avoid it as much as possible.

Everybody should know the route at least to the next reconnoiter point. Friends familiar and comfortable riding together can do so, but otherwise it's "ryde your own ryde"

RE: Faster Riders...When I was in the group, we had over 50 bikes for each weekly ride. They were split up into 8 or less riders per group, and according to speed of the ride, and ability of the driver. They would also leave about two minutes apart so as to keep space between the groups.

I volunteered to be the road captain of the newbie riders. They were in that group until I said they could "graduate." Interesting experience, but I would not do it gain.

[Pandy]

2 wheelers up front staggered.

All trikes last in single file.

Yeah, what he said.

[canamjhb]

I've been riding with the same group for the last 16 years. We usually ride 2 times a week, weather permitting. Some days we can have 20 bikes and some days only 6-8. We try to keep each group to 8 or fewer bikes with a captain and tail gunner in communication with each other. Riding is always staggered with 3 wheelers in the back. They can stop faster than a 2 wheeler and require more space to maneuver around obstacles. We have had some group members leave and new ones added from time to time. But we almost always line up in the same order. Everyone knows who they are comfortable being behind or in front of. There are a couple of slower riders who gravitate to the rear. If they miss a stop light, the group just slows a bit until we are together again. This has worked for us for many years..... Jim

[UtahPete]

I've been riding with the same group for the last 16 years. We usually ride 2 times a week, weather permitting. Some days we can have 20 bikes and some days only 6-8. We try to keep each group to 8 or fewer bikes with a captain and tail gunner in communication with each other. Riding is always staggered with 3 wheelers in the back. They can stop faster than a 2 wheeler and require more space to maneuver around obstacles. We have had some group members leave and new ones added from time to time. But we almost always line up in the same order. Everyone knows who they are comfortable being behind or in front of. There are a couple of slower riders who gravitate to the rear. If they miss a stop light, the group just slows a bit until we are together again. This has worked for us for many years..... Jim

This sounds like a very cohesive group of similar riding styles and experience. Congratulations.

[2dogs]

Now you know why we don't like to drive in groups with other motorcycles/Spyders/trikes. Was in a riding club for several years, and one of the road captains. Seen enough "stupid" to cure me of it.

Don't mind riding with friends, who I am familiar with though.

Yea, us too. We don't ride in groups anymore. Too dam stressful. 1/4 mile separation is my comfort zone. If I can see your brake lights but can't read your license plate, I'm good with that.

[Peacekeeper6]

I have a question for you folks out there in the know. When riding motorcycles in groups, we stagger, with lead rider on the inside closest to the center lane. Then all the other riders stagger for safety reasons. What do you do if a Spyder is in the mix with other motorcycle riders? It is hard to stagger a Spyder because they are so wide. And secondly, if you are riding in a group of all Spyders, what is the safest way to travel? Do you still stagger?

Sounds like a crazy question but I was thinking about this.

I've ridden in stagger formation MANY times on two-wheels. I like keeping a tight formation especially through towns with traffic lights because IF the light turns yellow, no car would dare cross the intersection when a group of "rolling thunder" is still riding through.

Haven't done a group ride with Spyders though. I imagine I'd adopt a more car-like attitude and give others lots more space.

[jcthorne]

We tried that and it caused its own set of problems. You may not think relegating the spyders to the rear of the pack is disrespectful but realize many feel it IS. Doing that causes hard feeling and that results in less than optimum safety in the formation. Having trikes mid formation is not disruptive at all once everyone gets used to it. Southern Cruisers is one of the largest riding clubs in the US, and our local chapter is the largest. We have a good deal of experience with mixed rides and found what does not work and fixed it. Was just trying to give you the benefit of our years of experience and hundreds of thousands of miles doing it. I was actually against this formation myself over the years but learned by example and experience why it works and came around to supporting it.

[jcthorne]

Some people enjoy the discipline of formation riding and do it well and safely. But, I believe most Ryders, particularly relative novices and casual riders, should not attempt close formation riding, for everyone's peace of mind.

No one is speaking of 'close formation' riding. We are talking about group rides and the safest way to accomplish them. We strictly follow the 1 sec 2 sec rule. Not close at all.

[UtahPete]

No one is speaking of 'close formation' riding. We are talking about group rides and the safest way to accomplish them...

I disagree. There have been several references to 'staggered formation' and 'trikes to the rear of 2 wheelers' because of stopping distances; both imply close formation riding.

[SpyderAnn01]

You ride staggered leaving a 2 second minimum gap between you and the rider in front of you. Riding like this gives you a better line of sight and also gives you more space to maneuver quickly if needed. I don’t understand how anyone can argue with that logic and if you do I won’t be riding with you!

[UtahPete]

You ride staggered leaving a 2 second minimum gap between you and the rider in front of you. Riding like this gives you a better line of sight and also gives you more space to maneuver quickly if needed. I don’t understand how anyone can argue with that logic and if you do I won’t be riding with you!

:agree:

[Lew L]

You ride staggered leaving a 2 second minimum gap between you and the rider in front of you. Riding like this gives you a better line of sight and also gives you more space to maneuver quickly if needed. I don’t understand how anyone can argue with that logic and if you do I won’t be riding with you!

Tight formation in group traveling is for the Blue Angels. I like a bit of space around me. Staggering is fine but leave that 2+ seconds PLEASE. I ,personally, don't mind being a tail gunner. But when I want tear up the Sierra passes--- I prefer a small, spread out group.

Lew L

[ollicat]

Good discussion folks. I know we all ride on lots of different types of roads. Interstates are 10 feet or more wide. But some back roads lanes make only be 6 feet wide. None of this is a problem for two wheels but on a Spyder, there seems to be the need for some grace.

[jcthorne]

You ride staggered leaving a 2 second minimum gap between you and the rider in front of you. Riding like this gives you a better line of sight and also gives you more space to maneuver quickly if needed. I don’t understand how anyone can argue with that logic and if you do I won’t be riding with you!

Thanks. You said it better than I did. I obviously was not making myself clear at all.

[MRH]

I don't think there is a right or wrong way here, but it is a good question and worthy of thought. Different groups handle it differently, and rarely, if ever, has it been about anything other than what makes sense for the group (not being a second class citizen). If everybody is at the same pace, then putting Spyders in back makes sense for a number of reasons - we just don't "fit" the same way that two wheelers fit together. When I'm on rides where we stretch out at our own paces (and regroup at stops), then I find the place where I'm not slowing others down, or being slowed down - often at back of the faster pack of riders.

I think we have to remember that we aren't on two wheels, and that we are far more welcome with riders who ride more traditionally when the additional volume of three wheels doesn't take away from their experience.

[UtahPete]

No one is speaking of 'close formation' riding. We are talking about group rides and the safest way to accomplish them. We strictly follow the 1 sec 2 sec rule. Not close at all.

JC, I think the problem lies with people confusing 'group' riding with 'formation' riding. For many, it's the same thing.

[ARtraveler]

JC, I think the problem lies with people confusing 'group' riding with 'formation' riding. For many, it's the same thing.

I am thinking you are on to something here. :bowdown:

[2dogs]

No one is speaking of 'close formation' riding. We are talking about group rides and the safest way to accomplish them. We strictly follow the 1 sec 2 sec rule. Not close at all.

In my neck-of-the-woods, we have a secondary highway that leads from the interstate to some high desert open country. That secondary hwy goes through a 20 mile twisty canyon region that follows a river. It's not uncommon to hear on the news of several bikes going down on that hwy because one of them crashed and the others couldn't avoid hitting them. That's group riding, and the 1 sec 2 sec or 10 sec rule doesn't mean a thing if you aren't paying attention.

[BoilerAnimal]

I've seen my share of groups where they obviously thought the 2 second rule meant 2 FEET!

[thereverend]

O stagger, just single file, much safer

[obiwanbill]

I ride staggered with Friends or small groups of Patriot Guard. I gave up on Legion/VFW rides...no disrespect, but they want to stop every 45 min at a Post to drink for an hour. By the third post many a weaving all over their lane. Last 2 charity runs, there were too many on crotch rockets, hot dawging it, passing on left or showing off by driving in the opposite lane. I usually ride staggered with small groups of Patriot Guard or alone or with friends that are safety minded.

[acdcking12]

I am not a slow rider at all, and prefer to be at the back. I have always preferred that. Only time I like to be the lead bike is when we are riding a long distance. Lets say from KS to Colorado and such. That is because I have cruise, and can easily maintain my speed. A friend and his wife will follow because he has no cruise and his speed varies so much, it drives me crazy.

So I lead in that instance.

[Raven]

I used to do a lot of charity rides and some were better than others. The rubber band effect and dumb riders is why I don't do them often any more.
Didn't mine riding behind Spyders, just rode to the left of my lane and let the guy behind me stagger to the right.
Gave him more room and I could see around the trike.

[Wahrsuul]

The only "group" rides I've done on the Spyder were the "big" Veterans runs here in Dec. Over a hundred bikes usually. They line up by arrival, with Spyders, Trikes of all kinds and even a few Slingshots. No one seems to have any problems with it. There's another big ride coming in June that looks to be the same.

Even when riding alone I "stagger" - I try to keep the tires out of the oil line as much as possible.

When I was riding two wheels, we'd usually want the guy with cruise control up front even if it was a trike.

Keep your distance and it shouldn't matter who's riding what in what position.

[2dogs]

I've played/exercised my skills with the 2-second rule a lot. And at my age, it just ain't enough time/distance to make me feel comfortable. Particularly with my wife on board and we ride 2up quite often. I prefer one 1-second for every year I've been alive to stay alive. LOL Well, not that many maybe, but I like more than 2 seconds. If you've ever experienced a chink or strip of broken tire fly out from under the trailer of the semi you're following, and I think most riders have had that happen, you'd like more than 2-seconds to get away from it. I'm just say'n, the older we get.........:lecturef_smilie:

[Peter Aawen]

I've played/exercised my skills with the 2-second rule a lot. And at my age, it just ain't enough time/distance to make me feel comfortable. Particularly with my wife on board and we ride 2up quite often. I prefer one 1-second for every year I've been alive to stay alive. LOL Well, not that many maybe, but I like more than 2 seconds. If you've ever experienced a chink or strip of broken tire fly out from under the trailer of the semi you're following, and I think most riders have had that happen, you'd like more than 2-seconds to get away from it. I'm just say'n, the older we get.........:lecturef_smilie:

Yeah, that '2 second Following Rule' is really the Minimum Safe Following Distance.... :lecturef_smilie:

Once it gets to the stage your body might occasionally take a wee tad longer to respond to the signal from your brain to jump on the brake/swerve/evade by whatever means necessary (& that stage eventually comes to all of us who live long enough! :rolleyes: ) it pays to stretch your following distance out a little bit longer.... ;) Most of our Oz Rider Safety Courses have been upgraded to reflect this and now recommend using 'the 2 to 5 second' or sometimes just 'the 5 second' Following Rule! :thumbup:

[K80Shooter]

I ride staggered with Friends or small groups of Patriot Guard. I gave up on Legion/VFW rides...no disrespect, but they want to stop every 45 min at a Post to drink for an hour. By the third post many a weaving all over their lane. Last 2 charity runs, there were too many on crotch rockets, hot dawging it, passing on left or showing off by driving in the opposite lane. I usually ride staggered with small groups of Patriot Guard or alone or with friends that are safety minded.

I just did my 1st and last ride with a group from the local VFW. You are spot on with the way they ride and stop, the only thing that I will add is that they also try to outrun everyone else.

[RickWB]

We did a one day group ride this past weekend. All were Spyders (12 of them). We travelled in single file, about 2 seconds apart minimum. Front, centre and rear riders had comms. If we had to stop at a traffic light, we would bunch up, taking one entire lane to enable the entire group to get through on the green light. If in a congested area, and got separated, we would be in communications with the leader. We all didn't have comms until recently, and that made a great difference in safety and security.

[UtahPete]

I have a question for you folks out there in the know. When riding motorcycles in groups, we stagger, with lead rider on the inside closest to the center lane. Then all the other riders stagger for safety reasons. What do you do if a Spyder is in the mix with other motorcycle riders? It is hard to stagger a Spyder because they are so wide. And secondly, if you are riding in a group of all Spyders, what is the safest way to travel? Do you still stagger?

Sounds like a crazy question but I was thinking about this.

There's a big difference between etiquette and protocols I think. You seem to be referring to protocols, if I read it correctly.

[Little Blue]

:coffee:...I have not enjoyed the group ryding because of the spacing. The times that I did 'group ryding' were not for me. I usually do a 5 second spacing. The group wants to do the 2 or 3 second option.

So I don't do group ryding anymore. Just my personal safety plan.

Ryde and Enjoy your Time. ......:thumbup: