87 gas

[TONYO]

OK.....Whats damage could happen if I run 87 gas? Has ANYONE EVER had a problem runnin it? This is the 991 engine. I am runnin 89 in it now without any problems. TYIA :)

[Arion]

I'll defer to the petroleum engineers for the scientific explanation but, as I understand it, if you don't notice knocking and pinging then 87 octane isn't harmful. Higher octane fuel will reduce knocking and pinging (that's the main purpose) although it will not, despite what some may say, result in more horsepower (at least without some other noxious additives). Many new vehicles recommend a specific octane rating fuel but generally add the caveat that lower octane can be used. There are some places in the U.S. where octane choices are limited and it's a case of taking what's offered or pushing your vehicle. My two cents regarding the matter.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

OK.....Whats damage could happen if I run 87 gas? Has ANYONE EVER had a problem runnin it? This is the 990 engine. I am runnin 89 in it now without any problems. TYIA :)

Except for brief testing purposes, my two V-twins and one triple have been run on 87 * with ethyl ..... 100,000 + miles ..... none ever had an issue, and my triple still doesn't at 45,000 mi...... The BRP knock sensor prevents pinging if it ever needs to ...... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

[RICZ]

Gasoline burns and the higher the octane, the slower the burn. Using a lower octane than specified and getting no pinging/knocking is much better a scenario than using premium fuel (91-93 octane) where 87 is specified.
The old wive's tale that the higher the octane, the better the performance is hog wash. That can actually reduce performance.

[BajaRon]

You can use 87 octane without doing any harm to the engine. The computer will compensate for the lower octane by retarding ignition. It is less than optimum, especially in hot weather. But it won't hurt anything either.

[ARtraveler]

Baja Ron is right on.

For years, I put high test in all my Spyders. That was 90 octane with no ethanol. Alaska.

About four years ago I decided to go with the bottom grade...87 octane, no ethanol, once again AK. I noticed no difference in performance.

Have been using it ever since. It has been used in our 2011 (990), the 2014 RT (1330), and now the 2019 F3L (1330). Last summer we moved to Arkansas. Here the 87 has 10% ethanol. There is no winter shut down here, so I don't worry about the gas going bad.

I find no issues with either of my Spyders running on 87 with 10% ethanol.

WARNING, WARNING, WARNING...YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY.

[tofriendscreek]

I have used 87 almost all the time in an 09 RS, 12 RT, and 17 F3, with a cumulative mileage well over 100K with zero issues, whether hot, cold, prairie or mountains, didn’t matter.

[wingit3611]

If the bike has a knock sensor is there a way to advance the timing on it a few of degrees? If it were too much the sensor would cut it back. or use premium. 4 degrees on my Vision made a big difference.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

If the bike has a knock sensor is there a way to advance the timing on it a few of degrees? If it were too much the sensor would cut it back. or use premium. 4 degrees on my Vision made a big difference.

IMHO , I think you are asking for trouble heading in that area..... It took Bosche a couple of years to get the computers to where they are now .... Remember it was a BRP engineer, who decided to adjust the DESS module in 2014 and look what happened. It became one of BRP's worst issues..... My mantra has been " if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it " .....this has served me well over decades ...... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

[VStarRider]

BRP recommends 91 octane+ in their Ski Doo four strokes if 87 non-eth. is not available. I have been running 87 with 10% for a few years now, except the last tank full, where I will put 91 eth-free in it along with some fuel treatment for summer storage.

I made the change after I put up a poll on Doo Talk and found that a vast majority use 87 with ethanol, some for years. Looks like the same deal here. Enthusiasts who love and baby their machines come to forums like this. If you guys are ok with 87 / 10% eth, I am too!

Good thing because high test gas is 80 cents - $1 more then regular unleaded.

[Steve W.]

... Higher octane fuel will reduce knocking and pinging (that's the main purpose) although it will not, despite what some may say, result in more horsepower (at least without some other noxious additives). ...
The ONLY time higher-octane results in more horsepower is when the engine is built up with super-high compression that absatively, posilutely HAS to have the higher octane, but also has a computer to adjust the spark timing. If you put in lower-octane fuel, the computer will de-tune the engine, resulting in less power. Putting in higher-octane fuel will restore the original power, or, in other words "make more power than low-octane fuel".

I am wondering a bit if that is not the case with the Spyders. High-octane fuel <might> result in a bit more power (the full 115 HP), while lower-octane fuel might only yield about 100-105 HP (which is still quite adequate). Has anyone tried to do any dyno runs? Are dyno runs even possible, without upsetting Nanny?

.

[Pandy]

Somewhere in antiquity, there was a discussion about this very topic. As was referenced, the engineer's determination of octane requirements, and balancing this with tailpipe emissions. I have run all grades of fuel in my '11 RTS and have yet to see any detrimental effects. Your results, of course, can vary. Oh, and this is over 66K miles. At that, being one who reads owner's manuals, there is a line and one line only in my 2017 Ecoboost F150 that states , in effect, 87 octane is permissible for the fuel source, but for best results from the Ecoboost system, especially when towing, 91 octane or better should be used.
As always with a grain of salt.......

[carbonation]

Gasoline burns and the higher the octane, the slower the burn. Using a lower octane than specified and getting no pinging/knocking is much better a scenario than using premium fuel (91-93 octane) where 87 is specified.
The old wive's tale that the higher the octane, the better the performance is hog wash. That can actually reduce performance.
Sort of.

Premium fuel is more resistant to compression ignition than regular. It does have a slower burn rate but it's not really a factor in this engine. Using 87 in the Spyder and getting no ping or knock is because the ECU has retarded the timing, and probably lengthened injector cycle, spraying a smidge more fuel in to resist preignition and cool the cylinder and combustion chamber. You won't hear reduced performance or MPG, but you may have it.


87 is an 85 octane base fuel (usually) with 10% ethanol added. The ethanol raises the octane 2 points, but has less BTU. Premium 91 would be 89 and ethanol. 93 would be 91 base stock. Every step up the ladder gets you a higher refined fuel.


Most majors put the common dose of cleaners in fuel in their regular grades, and extra in their premium offering. There is some truth to Mobil having 3x the Synergy additive in premium. Non ethanol fuels for boats and off road may not have any cleaners added. They don't have to meet the standard for on road fuels.


You can use 87 octane without doing any harm to the engine. The computer will compensate for the lower octane by retarding ignition. It is less than optimum, especially in hot weather. But it won't hurt anything either.

This is as close to the truth as you'll get. 100's of thousands of miles have been done on Spyders on regular fuel, but it is less than optimum.

[billybovine]

OK.....Whats damage could happen if I run 87 gas? Has ANYONE EVER had a problem runnin it? This is the 990 engine. I am runnin 89 in it now without any problems. TYIA :)

So you say you have the 990 series engine. If so it takes 87 octane fuel and it is a waste of money putting in anything higher. If you are mistaken and have 991 series engine with the higher compression ratio. It is recommended, not required, to use 91 octane fuel. But it will not cause any harm using 87 octane fuel. The ECM will compensate when needed and prevent engine damage. Performance and fuel mileage may be affected, depending on the conditions. Usually high heat and low altitude.

[wingit3611]

Billy: How does one tell if they have a 991 engine? I've heard this reference to the different engine before.

[pegasus1300]

If you have an RS or a GS with a throttle cable you have a 990 series. If you have and RT 2010-2013or a 2014 and later ST, or GS you have the 991 series. Either way you have a 998cc engine. 990 series 10.5/1 compression 991 series 12.5/1 compression. I think the 990 series was retired after 2013.

[south GA Farm Boy]

I run only 87 octane in my 2013 RTL with the 998 engine, and in my 2016 RTL with the 1330 engine and now in my 2018 F3-L with the 1330 engine! No problem al all with any of them!

[RICZ]

They sell 97 octane where you live?

[65cabriolet]

Not sure if this was coincidence or not, but when I bought our 2012 RT S, I used 87, the motor would hunt at idle. I decided WTH, I'd try running a higher grade and put in some 91; after a couple of tanks, the motor no longer hunts at idle...

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Not sure if this was coincidence or not, but when I bought our 2012 RT S, I used 87, the motor would hunt at idle. I decided WTH, I'd try running a higher grade and put in some 91; after a couple of tanks, the motor no longer hunts at idle...

Interesting ..... I suspect it was Bad Gas and it corrected itself after flushing out the fuel system with fresh gas...... so the actual Octane of that gas was't the fix ...... Mike :thumbup:

[EdMat]

Not sure if this was coincidence or not, but when I bought our 2012 RT S, I used 87, the motor would hunt at idle. I decided WTH, I'd try running a higher grade and put in some 91; after a couple of tanks, the motor no longer hunts at idle...

Maybe it was all the extra super cleaners added to the premium grades that cleaned it out and let it puurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. :2thumbs:

[troop]

What does the owners manual say? I'm guessing 87 octane/regular fuel ?

FUEL SYSTEM
Fuel delivery Type Multi-point Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI) with
dual 57 mm throttle body
Fuel pump Type Electrical module in fuel tank
Idle speed 1400 ± 100 RPM (not adjustable)
Type Regular unleaded gasoline
Inside North America 87 (R+M)/2 or higher Fuel
Octane no.
Outside North America 92 RON or higher
Fuel tank capacity 25 L (6.6 U.S. gal.)

[blacklightning]

You should be fine with 87 octane. But if you notice an sort of spark knock, I would switch back. For the people that say that stock engines don't make a difference in power with the octane fuel, you are sort of correct, but not for all vehicles. I have used 87 in my wife's 2 maximas and they both call for premium fuel. The computer compensate for it, and it still performs great. My s/c lightnings wants premium, but I have used 87. In normal driving conditions where you stay out of boost, it would work fine. But when the engine goes into boost, you can tell a difference. I also found out that it will not burn as clean and smudge up the o2 sensors. When going back to premium, it cleared it all up and the check engine light went off. On my 17 mustang GT, it runs with 87, but when 91 and up is used, the car goes into another level. I also have found that it actually learns your driving habits and throttle response adjust accordingly.

[troop]

Interesting ..... I suspect it was Bad Gas and it corrected itself after flushing out the fuel system with fresh gas...... so the actual Octane of that gas was't the fix ...... Mike :thumbup:

Sometimes I get bad gas that results in a flushing out of my fuel system too :roflblack:

[fatboy]

the deal as i see it you dont get the additives like you do with 91 or 93

[Arion]

I love it when a question generates a lot of responses. There is always (well, almost always) good information to be had and that's one of the prime purposes of a forum, in my opinion.

[ARtraveler]

And this go around, even stayed friendly. :2thumbs:

[SPYD3R]

been using 87 Oct. since 2009..... NO ILL AFFECTS whatsoever....
i now use 87 with NO Ethanol.... since it's now available in my area....
Dan P
Easley, SC

[bigbadbrucie]

I had been using 92 octane with no ethanol, but have just switched to 87 octane, even though all of our 87 has ethanol, and so far I agree. No ill effects, no change in throttle response, no change in mpg....the only change that I see is the price to fill the tank.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I had been using 92 octane with no ethanol, but have just switched to 87 octane, even though all of our 87 has ethanol, and so far I agree. No ill effects, no change in throttle response, no change in mpg....the only change that I see is the price to fill the tank.

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd that is the reason I use it ( always have ) When they designed the Spyder engine .... they decide 99.999% of them would be getting gas ....WITH 10% ethanol ..... because most gas in Canada and the US is sold with ETHYNOL added ..... What does this mean ??? ... the engine system was designed to have it in the gas .... small engines have not been fully up-dated for gas with ethanol YET .... so they tend to work better WITHOUT ethanol ..... jmho ..... Mike :thumbup:

[Northofthesix]

I have been reluctant to use any gas but 91, but I will follow the herd and try the 87.... anything to save a buck that won't cost me more down the road!!

[Big F]

I've had a 2010, 2012, 2014 and now 2018 Spyders and ran with 87 octane in all of them and NEVER AN ISSUE!
BIG F

[azprince]

I love this Can Am fuel injection system. It will digest 87 for four years and 45.000 miles with no ill effects. No knocks, plenty of passing power and 30-40 cents less a gallon. And, my mileage went up from 38-40 to 40-45 mpgs! Whats not to love?
Harleys were ok with 87, but HERR BMW wanted only high test. You could feel the difference.

[ARtraveler]

I love this Can Am fuel injection system. It will digest 87 for four years and 45.000 miles with no ill effects. No knocks, plenty of passing power and 30-40 cents less a gallon. And, my mileage went up from 38-40 to 40-45 mpgs! Whats not to love?
Harleys were ok with 87, but HERR BMW wanted only high test. You could feel the difference.

Your comment brings to mind something that I said about ride position on Beemers....Ve have vays of making you ride. Achtung! They seem to be made for all the people with 30" plus inseams. :roflblack:

[Motorcycledave]

Here in California that is all we have here, [I] have put 87 in mine for over 20,000 miles with no problem.



OK.....Whats damage could happen if I run 87 gas? Has ANYONE EVER had a problem runnin it? This is the 991 engine. I am runnin 89 in it now without any problems. TYIA :)

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

OK.....Whats damage could happen if I run 87 gas? Has ANYONE EVER had a problem runnin it? This is the 991 engine. I am runnin 89 in it now without any problems. TYIA :)

Using a higher octane ( but not AV gas ) than required will not hurt anything. Mechanical .... but your wallet will feel it..... you might lose some power but not like 25% ..... closer to 2% ( if that ) ......Mike :thumbup:

[poli]

As has been said before, gas octane is a personal choice. I have used premium in both my Spyder and Ryker since day one and will continue to.

[TONYO]

OK.....After 2 tanks.....Still gettin 35 MPG And cant see any difference in performance. Wishin ida went with the 87 all along. Wasted at least 700 bucks in 5 years at 40000 miles.Ignorance is expensive! TY All for the input.

[ARtraveler]

OK.....After 2 tanks.....Still gettin 35 MPG And cant see any difference in performance. Wishin ida went with the 87 all along. Wasted at least 700 bucks in 5 years at 40000 miles.Ignorance is expensive! TY All for the input.

But, we don't ride these machines for their gas economy, do we? Welcome to the 87 club. I can say me too, to everything you wrote above. :bowdown:

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

But, we don't ride these machines for their gas economy, do we? Welcome to the 87 club. I can say me too, to everything you wrote above. :bowdown:

I do ( for the gas economy ) .... My Toyt van gets 17-18 and my Cobra 14 if I'm lucky .... Spyder RT ( 1330 ) 38-40 mpg depending how spirited I'm feeling :roflblack:........of course I didn't buy it for that reason, but must admit I like it .... in Vermont the difference between 87 and 91 is .85 per gal... that's not chump change - even if I only get 5+ gal. at a fill-up ...... jmho ..... Mike :thumbup:

[NoahMercy]

I will add a suggestion, from a mechanic's point of view: if at all possible, use a Top Tier (TT) fuel. This is a detergent and additive package used by several companies which will help keep injectors cleaner and help minimize and (occasionally) reduce combustion chamber, valve, and piston deposits. It will say right on the pump if the gas is TT, or you can go to TT's website and see what's available near you.

[ARtraveler]

Most local gas comes from the same refinery or even the same truck. For those stations with special additives...I am guessing they are put in at delivery????

[NoahMercy]

Most local gas comes from the same refinery or even the same truck. For those stations with special additives...I am guessing they are put in at delivery????

Fuel trucks can carry more than one type or octane...they have compartments in the tanks. The distribution centers (tank farms) are where the detergent packages are added for the various customers. ;)

[Little Blue]

:coffee: Costco gasoline is Top Teir (TT). Been using it for years. Usually run the premium but lately I am trying the regular. Mpg has been the same.......:thumbup:

[fatboy]

y'all have a 25 to 30 thousand dollar machine and you want to fret over 4 or 5 dollars a fill up

[ARtraveler]

y'all have a 25 to 30 thousand dollar machine and you want to fret over 4 or 5 dollars a fill up

Most premium is 40 to 50 cents per gallon more. At an average fill up of 5 gallons...that only about $2.50 more per fill up. Not a big deal for most of us.

For most that have passed over to 87, I don't think its about the economy that is driving the change. Most of the comments have to do with no performance difference, so why pay more?

I have no problem with those that must use higher octane, etc. It is a habit that a lot are into. Myself included. Now I am feeling that more cost is not necessarily better. If I noted performance differences, I would have changed right back.

[SportsterDoc]

Anyone running 87 octane done a plug read comparison?

https://ngksparkplugs.com/en/resources/read-spark-plug

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Most premium is 40 to 50 cents per gallon more. At an average fill up of 5 gallons...that only about $2.50 more per fill up. Not a big deal for most of us.

For most that have passed over to 87, I don't think its about the economy that is driving the change. Most of the comments have to do with no performance difference, so why pay more?

I have no problem with those that must use higher octane, etc. It is a habit that a lot are into. Myself included. Now I am feeling that more cost is not necessarily better. If I noted performance differences, I would have changed right back.

:agree: ... In Vermont the difference between 87 vs. 91 is about .80 ..... I'm Costco member and today they are selling 87 at ...... $ 1.59 and now all the nearby gas stations have dropped their prices to match ..... sometimes you things get better ..... Mike :thumbup:

[ARtraveler]

:agree: ... In Vermont the difference between 87 vs. 91 is about .80 ..... I'm Costco member and today they are selling 87 at ...... $ 1.59 and now all the nearby gas stations have dropped their prices to match ..... sometimes you things get better ..... Mike :thumbup:

Of late, gas is all over the place. Here, the choice between 87 and 91 is on the high side. The current price for 87 is $1.59. About three weeks ago, it was $1.05, and I thought it would go sub .99...but that never happened. The annual, boost the prices for Memorial Day, July 4, and Labor day are now kicking in. Probably after Labor day, the prices will go down a bit. :bbq: