China & COVID-19 virus

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

With china (from what we know) caused the virus, has anyone had second thoughts on buying chinese built stuff not
from fear but from anger & not wanting to feed the machine?

[ARtraveler]

Covid-19 Virus

[Nobodyjj]

Seeing practically squat is made in NA you are at their mercy. Be years to try and catch back up!

[Navydad]

This will be an interesting topic over the next year or more. China is well on the way to having the whole world upset with them. We'll see how this plays out :popcorn:

[Freddy]

Seeing practically squat is made in NA you are at their mercy. Be years to try and catch back up!

No it won't - it simply won't happen at all as we've priced ourselves out of the global market.

[SPYD3R]

i sent the below email to the CEO of Harbor Freight....
anyone, everyone, is allowed to copy & paste it, and also send it to him.... be my guess:

Mr. Eric Smidt;
Please be advised that I will no longer buy any products at Harbor Freight that are made in CHINA...
This virus, in my opinion, was created and released INTENTIONALLY by China, and I consider it an ACT OF WAR against the people of the world, especially the United States of America.
Harbor Freight has been my GO TO STORE, in Greenville, SC for well over 20 years, I find it sad that I am forced to do this because I've enjoyed your products and the courtesy of your staff, but it's a MUST to save our country from those that are trying to destroy us.
Please try to locate US MADE products, I'm certain that most Americans would be willing to pay a bit more to avoid enhancing an oppressive Communist organization.
Dan P
Easley, SC

[Cobwebs]

Wait till hyper inflation kicks in from all the bailouts and the idea of ''paying a bit more'' will only be for the very wealthy.
China is in meltdown too.
Could be half the goods simply won't be available from anywhere.
The idea that you can just flick a switch or print money to start the system up again is far from reality.
The ponzi scheme is being reset at the expense of the middle class and small business with choice and freedom the big loosers.

[MonPaul]

With china (from what we know) caused the virus, has anyone had second thoughts on buying chinese built stuff not
from fear but from anger & not wanting to feed the machine?

I think it depends on the buyer. I don't believe anyone goes out of their way to buy a Chinese product, it is usually more of wanting a cheap price or not doing research where a product is made.

[Lew L]

I'm needing a small plasma torch----- the chinese one is $300 or so. The American ones are $650 and up. I just don't want to support the communist chinese government but what's a guy to do???

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm needing a small plasma torch----- the chinese one is $300 or so. The American ones are $650 and up. I just don't want to support the communist chinese government but what's a guy to do???

Lew :agree:....but imho it's almost impossible to know whether or not the item you buy from a " USA seller " hasn't been purchased by them from CHINA. .... I would love it if there was a way to determine this ..... Mike :thumbup:

[TicketBait]

With china (from what we know) caused the virus, has anyone had second thoughts on buying chinese built stuff not
from fear but from anger & not wanting to feed the machine?


My feeling is that's the wrong approach to take. Too soon to know. Don't shoot from the hip.

Question? If China comes up with a vaccine before us, should we use it if they offer it to us, or say no out of principal?.........and what if they say we will sell it to you for $$$$$$$$.........:dontknow:

This is when the WORLD and friends need to work together, similar to the next bigger travesty Climate DOOM

This is a world Pandemic. Lets be right on the fix for this! ok?


i sent the below email to the CEO of Harbor Freight....
anyone, everyone, is allowed to copy & paste it, and also send it to him.... be my guess:

Mr. Eric Smidt; (Political Post)
Please be advised that I will no longer buy any products at Harbor Freight that are made in CHINA...
This virus, in my opinion, was created and released INTENTIONALLY by China, and I consider it an ACT OF WAR against the people of the world, especially the United States of America.
Harbor Freight has been my GO TO STORE, in Greenville, SC for well over 20 years, I find it sad that I am forced to do this because I've enjoyed your products and the courtesy of your staff, but it's a MUST to save our country from those that are trying to destroy us.
Please try to locate US MADE products, I'm certain that most Americans would be willing to pay a bit more to avoid enhancing an oppressive Communist organization.
Dan P
Easley, SC

Seriously, Americans are employed at Harbor freights, so you will effect them before you damage the Chinese.

Ya know the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, and we Put American Citizens of Japanese nationality and decent in camps. Is that what's next??

Why stop there, why not go back to WWII and not buy Gold Wing or BMW motorcycles.:banghead:



TicketBait, JMO

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

This virus, in my opinion, was created and released INTENTIONALLY by China, and I consider it an ACT OF WAR against the people of the world,
There's just too much of that way of thinking in this country - concrete conclusions and courses of action based on opinion. This could end up being the worst case of human/animal virus transmission situations ever. The news today reported two pet cats in NY have tested positive for Covid-19. And what was it, two weeks ago, when two tigers in NY tested positive? Are dogs next? What about gerbils and pet mice? That the virus came to humans from bats is perfectly plausible. It's happened before. And for all we know it may not have been bats. I understand the Chinese consume all sorts of wild animals. It's part of their culture. I heard today that the coronavirus was introduced into the German society by a Chinese lady passing a salt shaker to a German woman at a company lunch room. Two people in CA have been confirmed by autopsy as actually being the first fatalities from Covid-19 in the US. Where they picked it up is unknown. We just don't know everything yet that we need to know about how the virus originated and spreads.

[sduskin]

unproven conspiracy theory... Scientists that were researching before the Chinese stopped the inquiries, found it was genetically like 90+% to a bat virus. The hypothesis is it went from bat to middle animal to human. They were doing the tracing and sequencing when China stopped access to the data for research.

Besides, the virus will only live on surfaces for a few days. It takes longer than that to get chinese goods to our homes even via China Express.

[2dogs]

SPYD3R you need some reality time. And by the way, don't believe all the stuff coming our of Oklahoma. It's going to be months before fat lady sings.

[sduskin]

Well, I could believe that. :) Kinda like us having the best football team. :)

[Peter Aawen]

Well, I could believe that. :) Kinda like us having the best football team. :)

WHAAAT!! :gaah: You lot don't even play FOOTBALL - that so called 'game' you lot play is more like a choreographed demolition derby crossed with motorised Himalayan polo - only with car sized players instead of cars, and a pigskin bladder instead of your enemy's head!! :shocked:

And NO, I'm not talking about that 'Thugs game for Gentlemen' called Rugby Union that's played by some Toffs somewhere; nor that 'Gentleman's game for Thugs' called Rugby League aka 'one man trying to push two men's heads up three men's arses' that's played by wannabe Toffs somewhere else! :roflblack: Neither am I talking about that Soccer stuff, which is called by a few 'the World Game', despite only something like 4% of the World's population playing it?!? :rolleyes:

Surely you all know that there's only one REAL Football :dontknow: and that's Aussie Rules Football :firstplace: The phenomenal game played by highly skilled & extremely athletic aerial ping pong players who not only hafta kick the ball with their feet (and have done that so much that the ball is now permanently just a tad misshapen! :rolleyes: ) but they also hafta run with the ball, and bounce the oddly shaped ball; they hafta leap high into the air to pluck the ball outta the sky if it comes near, and climb all over their opponents to do that if they can; and they pass the ball too, only not just by throwing it (cos anyone can throw a ball! :p ) but by skillfully punching it off the flat of their hand like any sensible person would! :lecturef_smilie:

I just don't know what the World is coming to, thinking that any other 'game' could be great enough to be called 'Football' besides Aussie Rules, the game of Champions, played in the Greatest Country on Earth.... where we also play Cricket in the off season, just to keep the adrenalin pumping & coursing thru our veins!! :2thumbs:





Ooops, sorry bout that little thread deviation there, I mighta juust let my enthusiasm to set the record straight run away with me a liddle bit there - but in my defence, due to the Covid-19 'Social Distancing' requirements, there's no Footy being played here atm :banghead: and there's no cricket either.... :yikes: But at least that brings us back on topic.... ;)

[wyliec]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you TicketBait.:thumbup::thumbup:::thumbup:

[wyliec]

Peter Aawen,

After watching the Netflix series The English Game, I’d have to agree.

https://www.newsweek.com/english-game-netflix-true-story-football-soccer-julian-fellowes-arthur-kinnaird-fergus-suter-1493204

[EdMat]

Thank you Peter, you have started my morning off right! :clap:

[ThreeWheels]

My feeling is that's the wrong approach to take. Too soon to know. Don't shoot from the hip.


Seriously, Americans are employed at Harbor freights, so you will effect them before you damage the Chinese.

Ya know the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, and we Put American Citizens of Japanese nationality and decent in camps. Is that what's next??

Why stop there, why not go back to WWII and not buy Gold Wing or BMW motorcycles.:banghead:

TicketBait, JMO[/I][/SIZE]

With all due respect, in my humble opinion, you miss the point entirely.
It's easy, but totally wrong to blame racism as the root of any disagreement.
I believe there is a larger point to make. Do we, as a society, want to allow ourselves to become dependent on very long supply chains that can be easily disrupted.
This Covid virus has just made the point very strongly, but we've had many many examples in the past that were pointed, but less encompassing.
As an example, do you remember the oil embargo of the 1970's ? We have, finally, since then, become energy independent again.
Refineries used to be placed all over the country, now they focus on the Gulf of Mexico. Look what happens when there is a storm in the region. Gas prices go up because of a little rain.
Ice storms in Florida make vegetable and fruit prices fluctuate.
To be sure, it's a good idea to have foreign sources of goods to supplement our own, but just as a matter of course, it's better to have secure sources that are reliably close.
Just as another example, the Chinese have made passing comments to withhold the anti-biotics that we so desperately need to combat the current plague.

[Mazo EMS2]

I asked my wife the question last night, "if another country comes with a vaccine before the USA, do you think we would even know about it, and, do you think we would even accept it?" Whadaya think, are we as Americans too wrapped up in economics to accept a vaccine created by another country? Personally, I think it would be a hidden fact if another country came up with a vaccine prior to the US. This country is sooooo greedy, I don't think Big Pharma would ever allow a cheap vaccine to be made available to us without them being able to profit HUGELY from it. Pharmaceuticals and Insurance companies have run our medical system into the ground. Back on topic though.......I would love to be able to buy American Made Only, but I think we as Americans have made it nearly impossible to be able to afford to do that. Corporate Greed has become very real, and is becoming VERY evident in these times

[Grandpot]

Peter, I remember back in my 20's, going to a Rugby game and in the parking lot seeing bumper stickers saying, "Give blood, play Rugby." How true! :cheers:

[JayBros]

Peter, I remember back in my 20's, going to a Rugby game and in the parking lot seeing bumper stickers saying, "Give blood, play Rugby." How true! :cheers:

When I played lacrosse in college the laxers and the ruggers used to argue who was crazier, guys who could legally run around with sticks and hit each other or blokes who played football with no helmets.

[ARtraveler]

An interesting subject provided it continues to stay within the site rules.

Only two deletions for rule infractions so far. :bowdown:

[carbonation]

I think you have to make your own decisions.
I'll be thinking about where my purchases are from going forward.
I recently needed plumbing parts for a home project. I had a choice of one product that was of China manufacture, one from Italy. I chose Italy. The other 5 parts, only one was MUSA, the rest were MIC. But I made a choice when I could.
There are some items that you will not be able to find made anywhere but China, because retailers have limited choices in some product lines, and they make a boatload of money on those MIC parts, keeping the doors open and them in business.
I do think we need to move critical manufacturing back here though. Drugs, medical hardware, tools, things that keep the wheels turning and benefit us and US in the long haul.

[ARtraveler]

Anyone watching Shark Tank will know that they are a big proponent of Chinese and overseas manufacturing. As Kevin would say..."its all about the money."

Unfortunately, the bottom line or the final price paid has a lot to do with what is purhased, and from where, these days.

Once again, not one of those subjects with one easy answer.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

My original post was meant when you have options. I personally would rather buy american then chinese & pay more. I import from hong kong &
china and for years have wished I had options, Taiwan being one of them. I am an Autel tpms distributor and I hate it that they are owned &
manufactured in China. But when I buy things personally I do spend more for U.S. built ie snap on tools not harbor freight except when I need
cheap crap that will only be used rarely. We all know for years many dog foods come from china and may be poison, lead based toys and baby
soup (a chinese delicacy) and many other things.
I found a good source for those that don't read or speak mandarin is the Epoch Times.

[Grandpot]

When I played lacrosse in college the laxers and the ruggers used to argue who was crazier, guys who could legally run around with sticks and hit each other or blokes who played football with no helmets.

We did some crazy stuff when we were younger. Now we just zoom along at 70 MPH on three wheels. We never learn.:roflblack:

[MonPaul]

We did some crazy stuff when we were younger. Now we just zoom along at 70 MPH on three wheels. We never learn.:roflblack:

Zooming along with 3 wheels and 3 cylinders is still safer than 2 wheels and 6 cylinders! (I used to have a Valkyrie also:ohyea:)

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Man, where's UtahPete? This is the kind of conversation he likes to jump into with both feet! :roflblack:

[Grandpot]

Zooming along with 3 wheels and 3 cylinders is still safer than 2 wheels and 6 cylinders! (I used to have a Valkyrie also:ohyea:)


It always amazes me how many Spyder owners are either previous or current Valkyrie owners. There must be something in the genes.

Ah, there is a mathematical explanation. 6 cylinders divided by 2 wheels equals 3 wheels.:yikes: Wow, I was really reaching for that one. I need to get back on topic.

[rbell0]

I for one am going to avoid all the Chinese stuff possible because most of it is junk. As for the virus the whole thing seems suspicious to me. We need to get to the real truth somehow. If the wet market story is true and they let them open them again they deserve what they get just build the wall around them instead of down south. If it was a lab accident we really need to distance ourselves from them and maybe another wall is in order. I for one don't trust them.
THERE now I feel better.

Edit: I guess I'm turning into a radical.:lecturef_smilie:

[Lew L]

Zooming along with 3 wheels and 3 cylinders is still safer than 2 wheels and 6 cylinders! (I used to have a Valkyrie also:ohyea:)

My '98 Valk was a great bike.I sometimes regret selling it.

[canamjhb]

It is almost impossible to totally avoid buying Chinese products today. For example, go to Whole Foods, the bastion of "organic". Take a close look at a lot of their packaging. "California Stir Fry" veggies, for example, has small print on the back of the package that says "Product of China"!!!!! A lot of their products are the same. Good luck trying to stay away from China or going "organic" for that matter. Not picking on Whole Foods. They're not alone. Just pointing out how dependant we have become upon China in ways we probably didn't realize..... Jim

[Navydad]

We have been a world economy for so long now that cutting out China or any other country may be a pretty big problem. I agree that we should rethink where we get our a lot of our essential items.


Another one here. Blue and silver interstate. I don't miss it, it was not a comfortable ride for me. One of the prettiest bikes I've ever had though.
180699

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

If the wet market story is true and they let them open them again they deserve what they get just build the wall around them instead of down south.
Here's an interesting article about wet markets. Sale of wild animals in only a small part of the wet market business. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/4/15/21219222/coronavirus-china-ban-wet-markets-reopening

Chinese government would like to keep a ban on sales of wildlife, but there is a problem.


In theory, it should be possible for China to permanently ban the sale of wildlife is wet markets without endangering many people’s food security, income security, and valued culinary culture by banning wet markets altogether.

But that would require the government to stop kowtowing to the wildlife farming industry, which has immense lobbying power, Li said.

Sounds like American politics, doesn't it?

[Rob Rodriguez]

I for one am going to avoid all the Chinese stuff possible because most of it is junk. As for the virus the whole thing seems suspicious to me. We need to get to the real truth somehow. If the wet market story is true and they let them open them again they deserve what they get just build the wall around them instead of down south. If it was a lab accident we really need to distance ourselves from them and maybe another wall is in order. I for one don't trust them.
THERE now I feel better.

Edit: I guess I'm turning into a radical.:lecturef_smilie:


This is where it came from

https://youtu.be/V5ATxwXSvKo

[TicketBait]

With all due respect, in my humble opinion, you miss the point entirely.
It's easy, but totally wrong to blame racism as the root of any disagreement. Never said this- this is what's wrong with reading communication thru rose colored glasses.!
I believe there is a larger point to make. Do we, as a society, want to allow ourselves to become dependent on very long supply chains that can be easily disrupted.
This Covid virus has just made the point very strongly, but we've had many many examples in the past that were pointed, but less encompassing.
As an example, do you remember the oil embargo of the 1970's ? We have, finally, since then, become energy independent again.
Refineries used to be placed all over the country, now they focus on the Gulf of Mexico. Look what happens when there is a storm in the region. Gas prices go up because of a little rain.
Ice storms in Florida make vegetable and fruit prices fluctuate.
To be sure, it's a good idea to have foreign sources of goods to supplement our own, but just as a matter of course, it's better to have secure sources that are reliably close.
Just as another example, the Chinese have made passing comments to withhold the anti-biotics that we so desperately need to combat the current plague.[/SIZE]

Respect accepted, however where did I utter the word that you uttered "racism"? this was not the root. Nationalism, both ism's, but with completely different meanings.

The leader of the current free world has spoken of this MANY times. Without expanding this discussion for every circumstance that has occurred in our life time. Lets discuss your question;
Do we, as a society, want to allow ourselves to become dependent on very long supply chains that can be easily disrupted.

I am going to add a "?" mark to your quote above. Easy answer is NO, but long supply chains ( define that. ) Tyson foods I learned today has an issue with there business and they have a very short supply chain. and it is feared there will be a major shortage in the bacon fest that so many here are reliant on! :yikes: So spreading the risk can't be all bad if you have friends (other nations) that trust you as much as you trust them. So long as your Word is your Word ;)

oooops, I digress, back to your quoted question,,.. but why do we as a capitalistic nation allow that to happen? $$$$$$$$ people are ingrained HERE with " I want" for the least renminbi, oops excuse me dollar.

This is a big topic and one line sound bites no matter how well shared won't cover everything. That's why discussion and debate are so important. We currently don't have that in any of the various platforms of media. Some distinguished people here quote these outlets for news fact.

These internet news outlets I illustrate below have no contact info. Nada, yet if I want to check the sources of any, any of the major news outlets in print or broadcast on our airwaves everyday, I can!

ops my wife is telling me I have to step away from the computer and have dinner, I will be back tomorrow to finish my thoughts :dg1:

[Spyderman2018]

Ok people, it's time to educate yourselves. lengthily, but VERY informative! https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM

[wyliec]

Ok people, it's time to educate yourselves. lengthily, but VERY informative! https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM

I think the script/synopsis (below the youtube video) pretty much summed it up. Fifty-four minutes is a bit long for me to watch. I also found the comments interesting/informative; I always like the comment section.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Ok people, it's time to educate yourselves. lengthily, but VERY informative! https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM
What little I've encountered Epoc Times I've concluded objectivity is not one of their weak points, let alone a strong point! They make Fox News look liberal!

[ARtraveler]

Getting a bit edgy...let the arguments go please. Comments okay...but we don't need to go point by point back and forth. Your not going to solve the problem here. :bowdown:

[mcalva]

I live in Spain.

Of course Europe is in the midle of an economic war in which the great economy are trying to win the whole world. Nothing new for us.

Even though you are going to tell me that I am installed in the conspiracy theory, I think that in the world there are currently 6,500 million inhabitants and in a few years we will be 8,000. Elderly people cause more expenses than benefits and in 14 years we will be more than the double in my country that will receive a pension. Young people cannot contribute a lot because they do not have a stable and well-paid job, so the health and pension systems will not have enough money.
More or less the world now has more expenses tha benefits and resources will not arrive to everybody.
The "system" and the owners of the world are interested in only 4 billion people remaining, young and productive to maintin their privileges.
Look at the statistics that both in Spain and Italy 90% of the deceased are over 65.
White and bottled is usually milk.

[wyliec]

My original post was meant when you have options. I personally would rather buy american then chinese & pay more. I import from hong kong &
china and for years have wished I had options, Taiwan being one of them. I am an Autel tpms distributor and I hate it that they are owned &
manufactured in China. But when I buy things personally I do spend more for U.S. built ie snap on tools not harbor freight except when I need
cheap crap that will only be used rarely. We all know for years many dog foods come from china and may be poison, lead based toys and baby
soup (a chinese delicacy) and many other things.
I found a good source for those that don't read or speak mandarin is the Epoch Times.

I stay away from what I have bolded, since I've read plenty of articles related to those items. If it's a tool, I try to buy U.S., hoping it is better quality. Other stuff like clothing where I'm paying premium, it still is not U.S.; I'm not sure of any premium line clothing produced here.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

About protests - see my letter to the editor today here: https://www.idahopress.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/letters-to-the-editor-april-24-2020/article_a5cec95e-1497-53a6-96f0-a5eb8e1e75ae.html. Third one down, "No right".

[UtahPete]

About protests - see my letter to the editor today here: https://www.idahopress.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/letters-to-the-editor-april-24-2020/article_a5cec95e-1497-53a6-96f0-a5eb8e1e75ae.html. Third one down, "No right".

Well said!

[UtahPete]

Ok people, it's time to educate yourselves. lengthily, but VERY informative! https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM

Obviously biased. Hardly informative, in my opinion.

[bmccaffrey]

I live in Spain.

Of course Europe is in the midle of an economic war in which the great economy are trying to win the whole world. Nothing new for us.

Even though you are going to tell me that I am installed in the conspiracy theory, I think that in the world there are currently 6,500 million inhabitants and in a few years we will be 8,000. Elderly people cause more expenses than benefits and in 14 years we will be more than the double in my country that will receive a pension. Young people cannot contribute a lot because they do not have a stable and well-paid job, so the health and pension systems will not have enough money.
More or less the world now has more expenses tha benefits and resources will not arrive to everybody.
The "system" and the owners of the world are interested in only 4 billion people remaining, young and productive to maintin their privileges.
Look at the statistics that both in Spain and Italy 90% of the deceased are over 65.
White and bottled is usually milk.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[redrazor]

I for one am going to avoid all the Chinese stuff possible because most of it is junk. As for the virus the whole thing seems suspicious to me. We need to get to the real truth somehow. If the wet market story is true and they let them open them again they deserve what they get just build the wall around them instead of down south. If it was a lab accident we really need to distance ourselves from them and maybe another wall is in order. I for one don't trust them.
THERE now I feel better.

Edit: I guess I'm turning into a radical.:lecturef_smilie:
Very interesting commentary on why China's communist government is one to be really afraid of. Watch this video and be aware that "DR. Fouci" approved all this U.S. money help at the time.:yikes:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=96a4ad6f4e&attid=0.1&permmsgid=msg-f:1664788850239064368&th=171a84a38c87c930&view=att&disp=safe Very interesting commentary on why China's communist govenment is one to be really affraid of. Watch this video and be aware that "DR. Fouci" approved all this U.S. money help at the time.:yikes:
There another place to see this? Google mail throws up a 404 error. Are you linking to your mailbox, or to an attachment in an email. That might be the problem.

[redrazor]

There another place to see this? Google mail throws up a 404 error. Are you linking to your mailbox, or to an attachment in an email. That might be the problem.

Sorry for the error: Hope this one will open this shocking story: if not just copy and past this one to your browser.

[UtahPete]

[QUOTE=redrazor;1511742]Sorry for the error: Hope this one will open this shocking story: if not just copy and past this one to your browser.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The Supreme Court of the United States.


Justice Harlan stated the question before the Court: “Is this statute . . . inconsistent with the liberty which the Constitution of the United States secures to every person against deprivation by the State?”2(p25) Harlan confirmed that the Constitution protects individual liberty and that liberty is not “an absolute right in each person to be, in all times and in all circumstances, wholly free from restraint”:

There is, of course, a sphere within which the individual may assert the supremacy of his own will and rightfully dispute the authority of any human government, especially of any free government existing under a written constitution. But it is equally true that in every well-ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand.2(p29)

You'll find it in this long article about protecting the health of the public vs individual freedoms. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1449224/

Here's another one written just a few days ago addressing this specific issue.



Oh, and reread my comment in the letter and your statement above. Surely you are not arguing that your right to peaceably assemble, even if that assembly brings close together carriers of the coronavirus who may infect each other, trumps the right of a person to not be harmed by your action. Or are you?

[UtahPete]

If you're being sardonic. :thumbup:

[bmccaffrey]

Why is it the same people always seem to argue??

[UtahPete]

Why is it the same people always seem to argue??

No they don't...:joke:

[CopperSpyder]

Ok lets get back on track. Lets not do Politics see forum rule #2. Lets not argue to argue. I don't mind debate as long as it stays respectful of each other.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Here's something there should be no argument about, let's (u.s. and rest of world) buy less products from china and more domestic stuff.

[UtahPete]

Here's something there should be no argument about, let's (u.s. and rest of world) buy less products from china and more domestic stuff.

I would if I could. I think we are far too reliant on Chinese goods. But our farmers are very reliant on sales of their products to China, too. That door swings both ways.

I don't see China as evil; it's just that their long term goals seem to be at odds with our own lately. This is not going to be resolved by consumers, either theirs or ours, or by bullying, but rather by deep state diplomacy, which unfortunately seems to have been dismantled on our side at least.

[mcalva]

In my country and I think in many others, a lot of companies setted up factories in China to low the production cost and then sell their products "made in China" in European prices. Workers left their jobs and the products, made in China by European companies, not only maintain their price but in some cases increase.
China, once learned the manufacturing procedures, ends up imitating the product but selling it at its real price. That, without a doubt, is a solid argument to buy Chinese products for those who lost their jobs because faced with "real" needings, arguments are not always valid. The entrepreneurs of our countries have made their purses bigger thanks to manufacturing in China. And now those companies are asking for aid to survive, aid that if granted, will come out of the pockets of the workers. Never theirs or big capitals. We all have to share the blame. I believe.

[stmike 1800]

I just bought two exhaust manifolds for a dodge pickup from Napa ,you guessed it made in china .:yikes:

[mcalva]

My English is certainly not very good but I don't see where I said that. :)

[mcalva]

I always use my country as an example, which is what I know.
Maybe you could identify the same behaviors over there.
The owners of the fruit and vegetable plantations in some areas hire illegal workers from North Africa,
because they have no rights as european citizens, treat them like animals and practically work to eat
and sleep crowded into a barracon without any kind of sanitation.
The problem is that when the food arrives at the supermarket we buy it without knowing, or without wanting
to know, if that merchandise comes from human exploitation. It is another example of how companies in "rich"
countries make money without caring if the citizens of that country have a job or not.
Later, when something goes wrong, is allways the immigrant or the Chinese people fault.

[Northofthesix]

I always use my country as an example, which is what I know.
Maybe you could identify the same behaviors over there.
The owners of the fruit and vegetable plantations in some areas hire illegal workers from North Africa,
because they have no rights as european citizens, treat them like animals and practically work to eat
and sleep crowded into a barracon without any kind of sanitation.
The problem is that when the food arrives at the supermarket we buy it without knowing, or without wanting
to know, if that merchandise comes from human exploitation. It is another example of how companies in "rich"
countries make money without caring if the citizens of that country have a job or not.
Later, when something goes wrong, is allways the immigrant or the Chinese people fault.

Sadly, the same story everywhere... it is ignorance, wilful ignorance or deliberate "othering" of those with less power. We value inexpensive electronics and cheap food over caring how the people making it manage to live .... there is always some country, people or underclass to exploit.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Sadly, the same story everywhere... it is ignorance, wilful ignorance or deliberate "othering" of those with less power. We value inexpensive electronics and cheap food over caring how the people making it manage to live .... there is always some country, people or underclass to exploit.
That has been the story of humanity since who knows when, the rich and powerful taking advantage of those who aren't. The earliest exploitation of those with little or no power that I know about is the Egyptian Pharaohs enslaving the people of Israel. America experienced that situation very early in its history with the slavery of blacks brought from Africa. Then later the deliberate displacement of Native Americans from the land they had inhabited for centuries. It's just done in a more sophisticated manner and less cruelly today.

[mcalva]

And that is the real problem. We have not learned anything for thousands of years. We continue to act like the Aztecs, Egyptians, Romans, Carthaginians, Greeks and other peoples that I do not remember now ... and where are they now? Only in the history books that tell us how great they were.
While China has allowed itself to be exploited and produced benefits to rich countries, among which I am going to put mine allowing myself a poetic license, there was no problem. Now that they try to impose their economy on the rest of the world problems begin.

What will happen the day that Africa is organized and becomes the great power that it could become if it were not for the interests of other countries? Or if one day the South American countries organize and do things well?

That's the real problem. We continue to enslave the weak so let us not wait for compassion the day that fed up with us they decide to change the order of things. In Europe during the Middle Ages "tributes" were paid to the feudal lords, now we pay them to the states. Before there was slavery and now it is not. Are you sure not now? Current accounts, taxes, mortgages, credits ... and all this depending on whether some "rich man" decides that if you are still useful him, cause If we always use the same ways we will always get the same results and that does not seem to me the best way today.

We continue being slaves of our masters, kings or feudal lords and we believe we are free when in reality the news are distorted so that our opinion goes in favour of interests that at the end we see are not neither yours nor mine. But it is too late.
I’m sorry but sometimes with age I forget the good manners and the political correction.
Of course, this is my humble opinion and surely it will have nothing to do with reality. Ha, ha, ha! Maybe at the end I’m only a Don Quixote.

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

Well according to the news reports in taiwan, china has a vaccine but doctors in china don't trust it. My wife & I have been trying when possible
to buy non chinese products over the past year & will forever continue to do so

[ARtraveler]

Just a reminder. No political posts.

Next one will result in an infraction and closure of the thread.

[redrazor]

NOT A Political Comment! ...... just a list of very interesting facts::coffee:

# When you total up all imports and exports, China is now the number one trading nation on the entire planet.
# Overall, the US has run a trade deficit with China over the past decade that comes to more than 2.3 trillion dollars.
# China has more foreign currency reserves than anyone else on the planet.
# China now has the largest new car market in the entire world.
# China now produces more than twice as many automobiles as the United States does.
# After being bailed out by US taxpayers, GM is involved in 11 joint ventures with Chinese companies.
# China is the number one gold producer in the world.
# The uniforms for the US Olympic team were made in China.
# 85% of all artificial Christmas trees the world over are made in China.
# The new World Trade Center tower in New York is going to include glass imported from China.
# China now consumes more energy than the United States does.
# China is now in aggregate the leading manufacturer of goods in the entire world.
# China uses more cement than the rest of the world combined.
# China is now the number one producer of wind and solar power on the entire globe.
# China produces 3 times as much coal and 11 times as much steel as the United States does.
# China produces more than 90 percent of the global supply of rare earth elements.
# China is now the number one supplier of components that are critical to the operation of any national defense system.
# In published scientific research articles China is expected to become number one in the world very shortly.

[wyliec]

I just tried recently to buy at a website that originates in China. None of my credit/debit cards seemed to work. So, I used my VPN, and then I was able to purchase. I looked a little further into why I wasn't able to purchase, and found the banks/lenders found that there were/are too many scams originating from China. But, those who do not want to purchase from China, that's up to you. What I purchased can no longer be purchased State side; legal issue due to complaints of web providers and the services they offer, like pay per view. When purchased State side, the suppliers here charged 3x the amount, and they had gotten it from China.

[mcalva]

NOT A Political Comment! ...... just a list of very interesting facts::coffee:

# When you total up all imports and exports, China is now the number one trading nation on the entire planet.
# Overall, the US has run a trade deficit with China over the past decade that comes to more than 2.3 trillion dollars.
# China has more foreign currency reserves than anyone else on the planet.
# China now has the largest new car market in the entire world.
# China now produces more than twice as many automobiles as the United States does.
# After being bailed out by US taxpayers, GM is involved in 11 joint ventures with Chinese companies.
# China is the number one gold producer in the world.
# The uniforms for the US Olympic team were made in China.
# 85% of all artificial Christmas trees the world over are made in China.
# The new World Trade Center tower in New York is going to include glass imported from China.
# China now consumes more energy than the United States does.
# China is now in aggregate the leading manufacturer of goods in the entire world.
# China uses more cement than the rest of the world combined.
# China is now the number one producer of wind and solar power on the entire globe.
# China produces 3 times as much coal and 11 times as much steel as the United States does.
# China produces more than 90 percent of the global supply of rare earth elements.
# China is now the number one supplier of components that are critical to the operation of any national defense system.
# In published scientific research articles China is expected to become number one in the world very shortly.

Someone did his homework while the rest of us let our politicians (from everywhere not only there) sell us smoke and we fought each other over nonsense.
The problem never was about politics allways was about economy.
No idealism, no religious beliefs, no skin color. Always money, money and more money.
It is a good time to realize where the problem is.

[ARtraveler]

Warnings not heeded.

[Peter Aawen]

The inappropriate & political post immediately after mcalva's has been removed, and as per the comment above and the earlier warnings, this thread is now closed!