Serious Problem with My New 2020 RTL Rear End Assembly

[NEXUS]

Sunday 4/12 was the first time my wife rode on the Spyder we drove to the Blue Ridge Pkwy.
in Virginia only to find it closed also the Shenandoah Parkway. We stopped and I was trying to
open the right hand rear side cargo door. It would not open. I checked to make sure it was not
locked I went to the left side it would not open. Went back to the right side pulled a little harder
and broke the handle off in my hand.

After I came home I took it in the shop took the rear cargo module off and put it on the lift.
I could see the rear gap in the back on both sides. But I could see nothing wrong or anything
that might cause this from underneath or on top. So I decided not to pull it apart to investigate
because from what I see it's either defective part or a design issue. The rear of these RT's come
completely assembled from the factory. All they have to do a bolt them on at the dealership.
This is what worries me. Our ride was on a smooth paved road. It's almost as if both sides
sank down a little.

For whatever reason when my wife sat on it that weight push down and causes this problem for
I had not had any problems opening up either rear side cargoes doors before this. And my wife
only weighs a 120 something (only she knows)

There's no fault here to blame other than a part failure or design issue. I have not taken any
parts off the rear of this Spyder for anything since I've owned it. Again this all came about
when my wife for the first time road with me Sunday for about hundred miles and the only
thing was the weight that this now had to hold which for whatever reason caused the issue.
I look at other pictures of the rears of the 2020 RT's and there is no gap like this.

I have contacted my dealer who sold this to me and sent them some pictures. I'm just wondering
if anybody else has come across this yet besides me. Other than this I have been completely satisfied
with this new RTL Spyder and I still think this is the best one yet.

Because of the coronavirus as is everywhere else my dealership has limited capabilities now and
may not be able to get to it for a while. I'm wondering if BRP should look into this before they
disassemble it.


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[RICZ]

I'm thinking that BRP was in too much of a rush to get the new RT into showrooms.

[CentralCoastCA]

Following, waiting for my plastic parts to get into the dealer for repairs.

[Highwayman2013]

The latch looks like it's locked.

[widowmaker2011]

Mine is the same way , the handles do not fit correct.... based on the technical service bulletin I was thinking this will be corrected when the updated rear plastics get put on. The gap appears to be equal from the front of the rear section to the rear as in your pictures. Can you pop the rear seat and show the rear plastic side attachment points? If yours are corrected (some late production units were corrected at the factory with the updated parts) then we definitely have an issue....If you still have the old style pieces (held by zipties or forced together incorrectly) then this "may" be remedied when that bulletin is completed. My dealer says May 1st is the current day showing for the parts to arrive. However BRP is doing rolling shutdowns worldwide so that is not a date I would put in cement. Interesting either way...... Hope all is well my freind.

[ThreeWheels]

The latch looks like it's locked.

Yes, the photo indicates a locked compartment.

[NEXUS]

Yes, the photo indicates a locked compartment.


Yes I know what locked and unlocked is.
I had it on my overhead lift looking from underneath and I was turning the key
to see how it locked and unlocked and left it in locked.

The other side still won't open unlock no matter how hard I pull to the point of breaking.
If you look at the picture the whole latch mechanism where the handles broke looks like it has
slipped down.

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[cohoff]

"If you look at the picture the whole latch mechanism where the handles broke looks like it has slipped down."

Mine looks just like yours. I noticed it when my RT was delivered and I was concerned about how it looks. The latch on my left saddle bag is flush and looks ok. But the latch on my right saddle bag looks just like yours. I took my Spyder to my dealer last week and this issue was one of the things I brought to my mechanics attention and want him to check out.

[canamjhb]

Good job of documenting the problem. I would make sure all this information, including pictures, becomes part of your warranty claim. Sounds like it could be a couple month process to get it all sorted out. Hopefully, you can still ride a little until then. Good luck..... Jim

[NEXUS]

Good job of documenting the problem. I would make sure all this information, including pictures, becomes part of your warranty claim. Sounds like it could be a couple month process to get it all sorted out. Hopefully, you can still ride a little until then. Good luck..... Jim


Thanks Jim,
with the way the situation is right now everywhere I know this is going to take some time.
I just got off the phone with the service manager where I purchased it at and working to
make a case for this to BRP.

He feels exactly the same way I do and I want to work with the dealer first. This whole back
end comes as one piece it's put together at the factory. Whatever broke underneath the seat
affected both sides of the rear end and I would think somebody from BRP would like to know
what happened for it was nothing that the dealer did or I did to cause this failure.

When you pay $32,000.00 for pieces of plastic and mechanical parts you can expect some
problems especially on a newly designed model but hopefully they will make it right. I still think
it's the best one they've made so far.

[NEXUS]

Mine is the same way , the handles do not fit correct.... based on the technical service bulletin I was thinking this will be corrected when the updated rear plastics get put on. The gap appears to be equal from the front of the rear section to the rear as in your pictures. Can you pop the rear seat and show the rear plastic side attachment points? If yours are corrected (some late production units were corrected at the factory with the updated parts) then we definitely have an issue....If you still have the old style pieces (held by zipties or forced together incorrectly) then this "may" be remedied when that bulletin is completed. My dealer says May 1st is the current day showing for the parts to arrive. However BRP is doing rolling shutdowns worldwide so that is not a date I would put in cement. Interesting either way...... Hope all is well my freind.


You may be right on that piece of plastic that the tie strips were tied too.
I must have the new improved version on this model it's the same piece.
After looking in the service manual and going back after looking at it again
I am missing on both sides the plastic clips that holds the pieces from the
sides to this piece.

Which would make sense because if they were not there or broken the side pieces
then would fall down and jam the side compartment doors from opening up.

Either they were not strong enough built or they were never there. And when
that extra weight was put on it for the first time it pushed it out since nobody
had sat on it before.

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[Freddy]

At least your brake pedal didn't break off - yet. It'll be VERY interesting to follow just how/if BRP resolves this failure. Good luck with it. :cheers:

[Revalden]

Do the 2020s have the latch adjusting cable like on my 2015? If the rear section is all one piece, they must be in a different location. Perhaps the latch can be loosened.

[acdcking12]

Awful issues for a bike that costs so much. Kind of sad really.

[widowmaker2011]

You may be right on that piece of plastic that the tie strips were tied too......
180438
.....


Are these attachment points (circled) connected with zip ties (mine are) ...... The picture is blurry in that area so I cannot tell. If they are, or they are forced into position , this could be the domino effect that throws the alignment off for everything in the rear, thus the complete redesign of the side support panels that is coming with the bulletin. At least that's how mine appears to be.

[widowmaker2011]

Awful issues for a bike that costs so much. Kind of sad really.

I hear you but I run a Toyota Dealership , stop by someday if you want to see quality issues on $ 50,000 vehicles that will make you think this is minor. Not a dig at Toyota nor BRP , my point is Toyota is viewed as one of the top quality vehicles in the world and we do so many recalls for poor design it would make your head spin. Everyone has issues. It's how they fix them and react to the consumer that counts.

[Freddy]

Awful issues for a bike that costs so much. Kind of sad really.

You took the words right out of my keyboard.

Toyota has many more models than Can-Am so perhaps the comparison is disproportionate - poor design, testing, QC and reputation come with a +/- price.

[spyDerred15]

I have seen this on both sides of the F-3 2019 models. Adjustments?? Anyone know. Or lubrications might be needed, my 2020 RTL was dry at all latches.

[NEXUS]

Are these attachment points (circled) connected with zip ties (mine are) ...... The picture is blurry in that area so I cannot tell. If they are, or they are forced into position , this could be the domino effect that throws the alignment off for everything in the rear, thus the complete redesign of the side support panels that is coming with the bulletin. At least that's how mine appears to be.


There is no tie strips on this piece of plastic like yours. This must be the new improved
that they're going to replace yours with. I'm absolutely positive the clips on the back that
are missing this is what caused this issue that I have now. Whether this happened on the
assembly line or design I don't know.All I know is they're not there.

I take care of a large municipality and I seen plastic replace a lot of things some of them
worked a lot of them didn't the first time out. Like the intake on the Crown Vic's police cars
when they went from cast aluminum to plastic intake. All of them failed and had to be replaced.
Or the echo weedeater's that went from cast aluminum flywheel to plastic and if you run too
long the flywheel warps from the heat. And recently our Dodge charger police cars with plastic
radiator fans fails and go through the radiator from plastic fatigue.

Now back to the Spyder there nothing but plastic. you make something on the CAD and then
produce it sometime it just doesn't work the first time till it's been tested for a while. Stress
points that hold a lot of weight that bounce a lot lot don't work very well in plastic unless have
enough support to start with.

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[Peacekeeper6]

And people always wonder why I never buy the first year production of a redesigned bike, car or truck.

Hope you get your issues quickly fixed under warranty……

[Freddy]

Gee, that's a bit harsh PK. Have some sympathy for the poor man. If it wasn't for keen folks like him buying up the early production to identify the faults & flaws others would have all the 'fun.' :firstplace:

[NEXUS]

And people always wonder why I never buy the first year production of a redesigned bike, car or truck.

Hope you get your issues quickly fixed under warranty……


I have no regrets on purchasing this, let's call it the first edition of the new design.
It's all up to the dealer now and there attitude towards this like widowmaker2011 said.
(Everyone has issues. It's how they fix them and react to the consumer that counts)

I've had more serious problems with Spyders than this it took a while but BRP came through.
No sense in getting upset about it. I've always found a positive attitude gets the best results.
I made an appointment with there service department today and taking the day off so will see
how this turns out. Only thing that upsets me now if anything is there saying now on the trailer
hitch will not be available till the end of May.

[upsdoctor]

UUUGGGGGG!!!! They pushed the trailer hitch until may now? I was told by the dealer the end of April.

[Kingz]

Was going to trade the 16 RTL in on the 2020 but now I'm nervous. How can I verify that I won't have this problem?

[AVBIZ]

Was going to trade the 16 RTL in on the 2020 but now I'm nervous. How can I verify that I won't have this problem?

Honestly cant see any incentive to buying right now:

1. Economic uncertainty
2. 2020 RT and Factory have QC issues
3. Due to virus riding is limited

[NEXUS]

Took it into the dealership today and met with Kenny there service manager. I gave him a folder
with all the information that I've had and pictures and even the parts out of the service manual that
he would need and the service bulletin that was issued from the zip ties.

He couldn't of been a nicer guy. Took it in the shop did his own analysis came to the same conclusion
in about an hour and 1/2. Contacted BRP made a case for it. BRP has not had according to what he told
me any issues like mine where the tabs on the back had broken off. But Kenny said BRP wanted to do
whatever they could to get this issue resolved. Told him to order whatever he needed to fix this problem.

I couldn't of been any happier to hear this I was looking for something entirely different. They're going to
get all the parts and resolve this problem when they get the trailer hitch in to put on at the same time.
So BRP representative if you reading this Thank You. Now what's the deal on the trailer hitch.;)

[ARtraveler]

Thank you for the update.

[bikerbillone]

Nexus, sure glad to read your post.

[Freddy]

Honestly cant see any incentive to buying right now:

1. Economic uncertainty
2. 2020 RT and Factory have QC issues
3. Due to virus riding is limited


Deja vu all over again. :bdh:

[rtmario]

Hi upsdoctor, what is it with the trailer hitch, new hitch design or only new wiring ?

[canamjhb]

Hi upsdoctor, what is it with the trailer hitch, new hitch design or only new wiring ?

The hitch that fits previous RTs fits the 2020. One of my riding friends had the dealer move the hitch from his 2015 RTL to his new 2020 when he traded it in. The wiring harness IS different and he is still waiting for that...... Jim

[rtmario]

The hitch that fits previous RTs fits the 2020. One of my riding friends had the dealer move the hitch from his 2015 RTL to his new 2020 when he traded it in. The wiring harness IS different and he is still waiting for that...... Jim

Hummm, the 2020 rear end mud guard must be really close to the ball since it's longer then 2019 and earlier.

[upsdoctor]

Has anyone heard from their dealers if the fix available yet for this? I thought the updates were due out this week.

[Jetfixer]

The hitch that fits previous RTs fits the 2020. One of my riding friends had the dealer move the hitch from his 2015 RTL to his new 2020 when he traded it in. The wiring harness IS different and he is still waiting for that...... Jim

The instructions for installing the hitch say to remove the factory mud guard.

[h0gr1der]

The hitch that fits previous RTs fits the 2020. One of my riding friends had the dealer move the hitch from his 2015 RTL to his new 2020 when he traded it in. The wiring harness IS different and he is still waiting for that...... Jim

Gotta get the harness fabbed up in China! Quality Control and all that... :joke:

[SpyderAnn01]

Has anyone heard from their dealers if the fix available yet for this? I thought the updates were due out this week.

I thought they were to start shipping them around the 30th but that was before everything was shut down.

[PW2013STL]

The instructions for installing the hitch say to remove the factory mud guard.

Same issue as the 2018 and newer F3 T&L's have. The right side lower mud guard on the rear fender can rub on the hitch so when you get the hitch kit for those models they include a new lower guard with a cut out. What I did when I moved the RT hitch off our 2014 RT was to ride it and find the rub marks, and cut out the area needed for clearance using a box cutter. I like mine as I didn't remove as much as the factory one so in my opinion it looks better.
What I noticed with the new lower and wider factory rear fender it solved the issue of spray up the back that we had with the 2014 RT.

[NEXUS]

I thought they were to start shipping them around the 30th but that was before everything was shut down.


Me to :dontknow:

180708

Vanessa-BRPcare

Thanks for your reply. We hope you are doing well today.

Please accept our most sincere apologies for part number 219400990, showing available on our website but not being available
when you call your dealer.

We are going to look into what can be done so the part is removed from the website for the time being.

It seems that production delays from the supplier are at the origin of the wait. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience and
thank you so much for your continued patience.

Should you have any other questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to reply to this email or contact us at 1-888-272-9222.

Thank you for your patience and understanding. Have a fantastic day.

Cheers,
_
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________
Vanessa,
thank you for the fast response on getting me the paint codes. Can you tell me why they're such a long wait on the
trailer hitch for the 2020 RTL (Style: 219400990)

my dealer says (On BRP"s dealership order site they are still saying that it is still on back order. Now not available
May 21st. We tried direct order and got the same response)

When you go on BRP's website. It shows available and I don't understand it's been put off now three times to a
different date. I have a BRP trailer I can't use and it will be almost half the year

over with for the trailer hitch. That's if it doesn't get bumped again. Pleased check on this if you can and let me know..

Thank you

<BC>

[bikerbillone]

I know that the Vanssa BRP response email helps you 'none', however, it is well written. This girl must be in public relations which BRP needs. Not picking on BRP, every motorcycle corp can use some good PR.

[KX5062]

Sunday 4/12 was the first time my wife rode on the Spyder we drove to the Blue Ridge Pkwy.
in Virginia only to find it closed also the Shenandoah Parkway. We stopped and I was trying to
open the right hand rear side cargo door. It would not open. I checked to make sure it was not
locked I went to the left side it would not open. Went back to the right side pulled a little harder
and broke the handle off in my hand.

After I came home I took it in the shop took the rear cargo module off and put it on the lift.
I could see the rear gap in the back on both sides. But I could see nothing wrong or anything
that might cause this from underneath or on top. So I decided not to pull it apart to investigate
because from what I see it's either defective part or a design issue. The rear of these RT's come
completely assembled from the factory. All they have to do a bolt them on at the dealership.
This is what worries me. Our ride was on a smooth paved road. It's almost as if both sides
sank down a little.

For whatever reason when my wife sat on it that weight push down and causes this problem for
I had not had any problems opening up either rear side cargoes doors before this. And my wife
only weighs a 120 something (only she knows)

There's no fault here to blame other than a part failure or design issue. I have not taken any
parts off the rear of this Spyder for anything since I've owned it. Again this all came about
when my wife for the first time road with me Sunday for about hundred miles and the only
thing was the weight that this now had to hold which for whatever reason caused the issue.
I look at other pictures of the rears of the 2020 RT's and there is no gap like this.

I have contacted my dealer who sold this to me and sent them some pictures. I'm just wondering
if anybody else has come across this yet besides me. Other than this I have been completely satisfied
with this new RTL Spyder and I still think this is the best one yet.

Because of the coronavirus as is everywhere else my dealership has limited capabilities now and
may not be able to get to it for a while. I'm wondering if BRP should look into this before they
disassemble it.


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This same thing has sort of happened to my 2020 RTL. Except it's the left side case and I didn't break the handle. I am able to get the case open by jiggling the case with my knee whilst lifting up on the handle.

I took it to the dealer, which by coincidence, coincided with the arrival of the recall brake part. The recall was performed and they determined the case alignment was off, but couldn't be fixed until the new rear replacement plastic is in, so the bike was returned to me and it was left as an open ticket.

Thanks, Nexus for the original heads up, so I didn't have to repeat your mistake of breaking the handle off. :2thumbs:

[SpyderAnn01]

This same thing has sort of happened to my 2020 RTL. Except it's the left side case and I didn't break the handle. I am able to get the case open by jiggling the case with my knee whilst lifting up on the handle.

I took it to the dealer, which by coincidence, coincided with the arrival of the recall brake part. The recall was performed and they determined the case alignment was off, but couldn't be fixed until the new rear replacement plastic is in, so the bike was returned to me and it was left as an open ticket.

Thanks, Nexus for the original heads up, so I didn't have to repeat your mistake of breaking the handle off. :2thumbs:

When you look at the front of the side bags is the gap consistent from top to bottom? I’m referring to the gap between the lid and the bag itself? We saw some at dealers that had uneven reveals and the bags didn’t open and close as smoothly as those with a consistent reveal. We thought it was probably not assembled/adjusted properly by the dealer during set up. In the one picture (the picture that is right side up) you can see how the gap is wider at the top and narrower at the bottom. On the other picture (the sideways one) the reveal is consistent.

[KX5062]

There does appear to be a minor misalignment, which the dealer identified. They said they didn't feel it was "fixable" until they got the new plastic parts. They said they could mess around with it, but thought it would be a waste of time until the new parts arrived. I concurred and was good with their judgement.

[bikerbillone]

Seems the dealer is working with you, that's a good thing.

[NEXUS]

There does appear to be a minor misalignment, which the dealer identified. They said they didn't feel was "fixable" until they got the new plastic parts. They said they could mess around with it, but thought it would be a waste of time until the new parts arrived. I concurred and was good with their judgement.


My problem and yours are very similar. The solution is also the same and the conclusion for my dealership is the same as yours.

Also quite interesting is the service manager put his knee hard against the other side that I did not break the handle off of.
Pushed inward with his knee while pulling on the handle and showed me how to open it this way. He didn't think there was any way to
adjust anything till he gets the parts. And again I think this is a minor issue myself. It has not kept me from riding it in any way.
My only disappointment at the moment is the trailer hitch. I'm picking up my 622 trailer from the paint shop Monday but still
have to park it waiting on the trailer hitch. :sour:

[NEXUS]

Picked up my RT from the dealership Friday after it had been there two weeks to
get the problems fixed with the rear end assembly from the factory OEM problem
and replaced the parts for the side hatch where the handle broke off.

The dealers service manager Kenny was a little dismayed on how much he had to take
apart to fix this OEM problem to replace the defective parts. It took them twice as long
with two mechanics working on it to replace the parts for the allotted time that BRP
said it would.

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Interestingly enough, the side hatch assembly lever when they took it apart was full of rust.
He had to the send that back to BRP for them to look at it and open up a new case with BRP
just for that part.

The finished result was no more sagging side bags and no more open cracks between
the parts on the rear assembly. I am very well pleased with the finished product and
the way the dealership handled the situation which costed me no money.

The opposite side bags latch is still stiff and have to put a knee into it to get it to open.
The one they replaced is effortlessly easy to open. The service manager said if it gets to be a
problem. He will try to get that replace that one also.

The service manager called me Monday to see if everything was okay with what they did and
I think that's the first time anybody's call me back from a dealership concerned about what I think.

All in all BRP came through with the parts dealership did a great job putting them on and
making sure I was satisfied with the results.:D :thumbup:

[upsdoctor]

Nexus, sounds like one of your rear latches needs to be adjusted. Both of mine were sticking like yours and had to use my leg to push on the cover before it opened. The cable adjuster can be accessed by going underneath the saddlebag, you will see an opening just behind the latch. The follow the cable from the back of the latch down until you find the adjuster. Loosen the holding nut. At this point i marked the adjuster with a silver sharpie for a reference point. I turned two full turns clockwise before my saddlebag would open correctly. Hope this helps. PM me if you need help.

[Papa103]

Nexus, I have that exact RLS pipe on my 19 RTL. Gave it a nice growl.