Oil change by suctioning

[Spyderup]

Curious if anybody has tried to drain their oil yet with either a vacuum or mechanical suction device. I used to do it on my boat and mowers and thinking why not.

[Elwood58]

Dry sump engine, so not an option.

[Eckhard]

Dry sump engine, so not an option.

Please explain???

The oil tank contents could be easily sucked out. Beats crawling around and trying the open drain plugs in hidden locations and having oil run all over the place.

[cueman]

You might want to give some thought to where the crud settles and why some makes have magnetic drain plugs. :yikes: cueman

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Sucking the oil out of the tank does not suck out ALL the oil out of the engine. The drain plugs are where they are because those are the lowest points in the engine and where oil settles. No suction tube can get to those places.

[Eckhard]

Once the oil has been sucked out of the tank you can clean the magnetic drain plug with little chance of spillage.

[Eckhard]

Sucking the oil out of the tank does not suck out ALL the oil out of the engine. The drain plugs are where they are because those are the lowest points in the engine and where oil settles. No suction tube can get to those places. Your saying that you are draining the sump of the engine as well as the oil tank? If that is so, sucking out the oil won't do a complete job but my guess would be that it is sufficient.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Your saying that you are draining the sump of the engine as well as the oil tank? If that is so, sucking out the oil won't do a complete job but my guess would be that it is sufficient.
For both engines the bottom of the oil tank is above the bottom of the engine. On the 1330 draining the oil from the bottom of the engine will completely drain the tank. On the 998 the oil outlet from the tank is a little bit above the bottom of the tank so draining the engine from the bottom will leave a small amount of oil in the tank. Obviously not enough gets left to be a problem or Rotax wouldn't have designed the engine the way they did.

What you're suggesting would lead to a lot of oil spillage, especially with the 1330. I'm going to guess as much as a quart or more would be left in the 1330 if you only suck out the tank. Oil draining from the tank to the sump is why you need to check oil level very soon after shutting off the engine.

[Woodaddict]

you might want to educate yourself with the spyder dry oil sump engine. on the drain plug is 2 o-rings, 1 is the very bottom, other is a passage above. nothing will be able to go into all the possible holding areas

[JayBros]

For the heck of it when I changed my oil back in January, based on a previous thread where the same question was asked and one responder said that sucking the oil out reduced the head pressure of the draining oil into a catch pan, I tried the suction method to see what it added to the job. I got out about three plus qts, then pulled both plugs to get the rest out out. Using the suction evacuator wasn't worth the extra effort. The only thing it did do was make it a little easier dumping my double wide drain pan (can drain through both plus simultaneously) into the disposal jug.

[canamjhb]

Once upon a time, there was a service writer at a local Spyder dealer who recommended sucking the oil out of my 1330 in order to save time and money. It sounded OK to me at the time. So that's what they did. Afterward, and thinking about it, I contacted BRP to make sure this was an approved procedure and to make sure my warranty would not be in jeopardy. Well, I'm sure you can guess the response. NOT OK. I went back to the dealer and the manager did a FULL proper oil change at his expense. So, that's my story. Oh, one more thing. That service writer doesn't work there any more. The End..... Jim

[ThreeWheels]

I understand the desire to try and keep things clean by vacuuming out the oil.
I think this can be an effective way of removing the dirty oil in an engine that's designed for it, like most marine engines.
If you run the engine until it's warm the contaminants in the oil are suspended and will be removed with the oil.
Nevertheless, the 1330 ACE has TWO drain plugs for a reason. Some parts of the engine are difficult to access.
While there probably isn't a lot of residual oil if you use a pump, there's still the legal issue of the BRP warranty.
I'd recommend either knowingly voiding the warranty, or waiting until after the warranty expires.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong. If I am, I'm sure somebody on this site will be happy to let me know.

[Mazo EMS2]

Please just pull the drain plugs and do the job properly. It's just not worth taking shortcuts on. You're changing the oil to get the crud out. The crud is generally on the bottom....so the only way to get the crud out is to pull the plugs

[PMK]

Try it and report back. This has been asked several times in the past, so fill in the blanks.

Myself, I prefer draining via the two drain plugs.

[AeroPilot]

I have tried it and can only suck out 3 of the 5 quarts fill on the 1330 engine through the filler tube hole. As others have mentioned, it reduces the oil drain through the two sides (clutch and engine side) and can extract a little from the filter canister, but you still need to pull the plugs for a full change. So in short, a 60% oil replacement at most.

[Gwolf]

Never had any problems draining it in a pan. I have a large drain pan that will catch it from both plugs at the same time. Just run the front tires up on the ramps, jack the rear up to get it level, slide the drain pan under there and pull the plugs. If you wear a rubber glove to back the last few threads out, it will not burn your hand and there won't be any spilled on the floor. Total time to jack it up and pull the plugs might be 3 or 4 minutes. I could not vacuum the oil out in that time.

[bikerbillone]

On the 2020 RTL I hear there's a brake rod, or something, blocking access to the oil drain plug which is a torx insert, or similar plug. Lamonster has the conversion hex head drain plug replacement. Where is the best to position the jack to raise the rear?

[Gwolf]

I got the Gold plugs with the hex heads on them. Been using deep well socket to turn the plugs. Just about the right amount of stand off and not as much wiggle as with an extension.

Don't know about the 2020 RTL. I put the rear jack on the very back end of the solid center beam on the 2019 F3 and it works fine. Put a piece of 2x4 on the jack to keep the jack top surface from contacting anything sticking down below the beam.

http://www.tanwater.com/pics/spyder-backtire6039.JPG

[AeroPilot]

Well I just did my 8th full oil change on the 15 RT with 5 qts fresh oil and Hyflo filter 556 from BajaRon. It Went well with a minimum of drips and splash using ramps on my slanted drive. I did siphon about a quart out with the extractor, and cleaned the filter canister.

The magnets had only a little powdery swarf on them. I think this engine is about broken in now and ready with some fresh oil for when the "Safer at Home" stage is lifted, and we're able to travel again.

:2thumbs: 180825

[BajaRon]

There are some good ideas to save time and hassle.

There are some OK ideas to save time and hassle.

And there are some bad ideas to save time and hassle.

Then there is opinion, and reality. Hopefully, these two aspects are on the same page. But they aren't always.

[Grandpot]

I wonder why BRP doesn't say to suck out the oil? My guess is that it is not the correct way to change the oil.:lecturef_smilie:

[spyderider1]

I'll probably get flamed for this... so here goes nothing. I use a vacuum tank but not on the Spyder. It started quite a few years ago when we bought our first boat with an inboard engine. They mount those things as low as possible and there was no way to get a catch pan under the engine. I suppose if you could find the plug and get a wrench on it you could let the oil drain into the bilge but that would be an even worse mess not to mention environmental and safety issues. So I bought one of those vacuum tanks where the hose goes down the dip stick tube and you pump until the last of the oil is out. Of course you have to warm up the engine beforehand which I assume does two things, it makes the oil thinner for pumping and any sludge should be suspended for the time it takes to evacuate. I have to believe that any oil remaining is miniscule as when it's refilled with new oil it comes out right at the Full mark on the dipstick. As mentioned earlier in this thread, these BRP engines are Dry Sump and there is no oil pan so you have no choice but to drain them from the plugs. As for my Spyder, she gets an oil change at the dealer at the end of summer. They also go over it for wear and tear at that time. It's a bit pricey but there is nothing inexpensive when it comes to Spyders. OK, I'm going back down my rabbit hole, you can fire away!;)

[canamjhb]

Sucking boat oil out the dipstick tube is accepted practice and gets almost all the oil out if done properly. I have had more boats than I can count and most had the oil changed that way. For many years I used what was named a Jack Rabbit pump. It was a rotary hand-crank plastic pump with a dipstick insert and long plastic hose on the other end. It was a pretty good workout cranking that thing. I eventually graduated to twin diesels with an oil change system. Get a 5-gallon bucket, put the oil exit hose in, open a petcock, and flip a switch and the oil flows out in about 2 minutes. I don't know of any commercial boat services that changed small boat oil by using anything other than sucking it out..... Jim

[JayBros]

Boat engines have a wet sump where all the oil collects in a pan beneath the crankshaft; the Spyders have a dry sump with separate oil tank. That's why you can't get all the oil out of a Spyder with a suction system.

[Steve W.]

Boat engines have a wet sump where all the oil collects in a pan beneath the crankshaft; the Spyders have a dry sump with separate oil tank. That's why you can't get all the oil out of a Spyder with a suction system.

True, but, ... all of the dry sump systems I have seen before have a tank for oil storage. It would be SO easy to just drain the tank, whether by opening a plug or sucking it out. I have not gotten deep enough into the engine area yet, but I am under the impression that the Spyder's "tank" is actually part of the engine, possibly a chamber on the side? And it has some ports that allow oil to drain back to the crankcase? (Which is why you have to check the oil level within two minutes.) It appears to me that there are multiple areas where the oil resides, which would make vacuum extraction a bit challenging.

.

[cueman]

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I think this thread is starting to SUCK! :roflblack: cueman

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

True, but, ... all of the dry sump systems I have seen before have a tank for oil storage. It would be SO easy to just drain the tank, whether by opening a plug or sucking it out. I have not gotten deep enough into the engine area yet, but I am under the impression that the Spyder's "tank" is actually part of the engine, possibly a chamber on the side? And it has some ports that allow oil to drain back to the crankcase? (Which is why you have to check the oil level within two minutes.) It appears to me that there are multiple areas where the oil resides, which would make vacuum extraction a bit challenging.
Did you see this discussion? https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?130192-oil-capacity-1330/page4&highlight=dry+sump+tank. Starting at post #47 I have a few pics of the engine and oil passages. The sump is a plastic tank bolted to the side of the engine block. Its drain is about 1/4 of the engine height above the bottom of the engine. You physically cannot get a suction tube to the lowest points where oil settles. There are baffle plates, or whatever, between the crankshaft and the pan at the bottom of the engine. You'll need to go the BRP parts diagrams to see a picture of that. www.epc.brp.com

Given enough time the tank will drain completely, or at least below the dipstick. Last year I checked the oil level cold after sitting all winter. Not one drop of oil on the dipstick. I did not add oil but went for a ride. About a 1/2 hour later the oil level was at the full mark!

[JayBros]

My 1990 911 C4 had a separate oil tank but you still had to pull an oil plug on the engine casing to get all 13 qt out. Believe me, as I said in post #10 The suction method isn't worth the effort IMO. Have to unload that gizmo.