Steering... whaaat?

[Extremebob]

I bought a 2012 Spyder RED SE5 a couple months ago.
Since that time I've been going through the whole thing,
top to bottom end to end. I've only driven it up the street
a couple times. Well I finally decided to take it out, ran it up
in first shifted to second and promptly ran off the road. I'm okay
the bike not so much. I get this side to side thing going on and he do
before I knew it I was headed for a very large oak tree which I
Luckily missed but in doing so I hit two smaller oak trees. I guess
they were 2 to 3" in diameter and probably 8 to 10 feet tall. Took
em both out. Anyway all this to ask is it me or the Spyder. I'm
going along fine and suddenly I'm weaving side to side.
Remembering to relax my death grip on the handle bars which
helps, but, geez are they that hard to ride? I'm a life long
motorcyclists which I understand doesn't help in the least,
to the contrary. At this point I can't imagine riding this at
highway speeds. I'd appreciate everybody's input, as I repair
the Spyder, Thanks
(Not so) extremebob sorry for the broken text, I'll do better next time.

[PinkRosePetal]

Man that's tough luck, I'm pleased your ok though. It does sound extreme so it's very difficult to determine what might have happened.

Coming from a motorbike your brain will automatically countersteer which is the exact opposite of what is needed for a Spyder. For most bike rider folk it feels strange at first and gives the impression of the Spyder darting about because each steering input is opposite to what is required, after a while the brain adjusts and one simply flips from bike mode to Spyder mode much as is done when changing from a car to a bike.

If there was nothing faulty or maladjusted with the Spyder, perhaps you just kinda got lost in the rush of needing to steer quickly but did it in the opposite sense to what was required.

However, if you're using the OEM kenda tyres they have a characteristic where they steer if one edge of the tyre runs against a ridge or a raise in the road surface, even along the edge of the centre road markings. They can easily take you over a ridge so quickly you don't have time to react. If you are unlucky enough to encounter a series of ridges you can be taken many feet off course in just a moment of time. This is even worse if your front wheel alignment is toeing out. The steering tie-rods are also a bit too flexible and add some to the poor steering when something produces a tendency to remove your control.

The only thing I can suggest is to analyse what happened and also have a look at the road surface where the incident took place.

There have been reports on Spyderlovers where folk have been taken off track by what they thought was a wrong reaction of the vehicle stability system. I've no experience of this but you might want to check it out too.

[fjray]

You will get lots of pontificating on this telling you what to do. Some of it may be the machine. Check all the parts for wear. They can be twitchy on the road. I never made friends with my 2015 so it is in a neighbor's garage and I'm back on two wheels. Now break out the popcorn.��

[ARtraveler]

:welcome:

Since this is the first posting of this type of accident, I am going to mention that I do not think the Spyder is totally responsible for running off the road and hitting a couple trees. It sounds like you are very new to the Spyder and some of its quirks.

They can seem a bit "twitchy" at first...but that is usually due to the death grip by those who are new to it. And yes, I took 1500 miles before I was comfortable. Most get it figured out at 500 miles or less.

The manual has suggestions for new riders, as in parking lot riding at slow speeds, etc. If your Spyder did not come with a manual, you can go to the BRP site and get one for free.

I see you are from somewhere in Texas and that you are new to the site. More information about location might be good. There are a lot of riders in and around Texas, and you may be able to hook up with someone that can help you get started on a track to safe and enjoyable riding.

Hope the Spyder did not take to much of a hit.

[ThreeWheels]

It may be you, to some extent, you may have over corrected, but something started the bobbing and weaving.

Make sure all the mechanicals are in good shape. The Kenda tires can cup, the ball joints or tie rods might be loose.
Tire pressure on the front tires should be around 17 psi. If the pressure is too high, the bike "stands up on the balls of it's feet" and can be twitchy.
On a 2012, my guess would be the alignment. If there is too much toe-out, riding the Spyder is like riding a two wheeler over a metal grate bridge. It just bobs and weaves wherever it wants to go.
If the front alignment is good, the Spyder handles like it's on rails.

As always, my free advice comes with a double your money back guarantee.

[Raprider]

Extremebob...
So sorry to hear about your 'incident', but glad you are okay.
Many of us here have come from 2 wheels, and as ARtraveler points out, there IS a learning curve...steepness will vary from individual to individual.

My suggestion is for you to take a 3-Wheel Beginner Rider Class...find more info at this link...it's discounted to $99 and well worth every penny.
https://can-am.brp.com/on-road/learntoride.html

Good luck in completing any repairs and learning the ins-n-outs of ryding your Spyder!

[carbonation]

First, happy you are OK.
Machines can be repaired, humans, sometimes not so much.
I came from 2 wheels too. First test ride was challenging, and I fought it at first. A persons nervous system is trained after so many years on 2 to counter-steer, and that does not work on the Spyder. I bought one, and the first 500 miles were interesting. I did get it, and have many many enjoyable miles since. But nothing like what you describe.
All that being said, I don't think it was all you. I had over 200k on two wheels, and did not have an experience like you describe. I'd have that thing checked for steering issues: ball joints, tires, alignment, and see if there are nanny faults. The "tank slapping" you describe just isn't normal.
"At this point I can't imagine riding this at
highway speeds." There has to be something wrong. I've been at highway speeds the majority of the time, and occasionally slightly above, and my 12 was solid. My 19 is even better.

[Extremebob]

Thanks to everyone for your help. Spyder, post accident will have a new frunk, New skid plate, New right front panel and light. I'm pretty sure the suspension is ok. But as you can see it took quite a hit. Thanks again for your interest. Oh by the way I'm located in central Texas, the "Hill Country" about 50 miles east of Austin.
extremebob

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I bought a 2012 Spyder RED SE5 a couple months ago.
Since that time I've been going through the whole thing,
top to bottom end to end. I've only driven it up the street
a couple times. Well I finally decided to take it out, ran it up
in first shifted to second and promptly ran off the road. I'm okay
the bike not so much. I get this side to side thing going on and he do
before I knew it I was headed for a very large oak tree which I
Luckily missed but in doing so I hit two smaller oak trees. I guess
they were 2 to 3" in diameter and probably 8 to 10 feet tall. Took
em both out. Anyway all this to ask is it me or the Spyder. I'm
going along fine and suddenly I'm weaving side to side.
Remembering to relax my death grip on the handle bars which
helps, but, geez are they that hard to ride? I'm a life long
motorcyclists which I understand doesn't help in the least,
to the contrary. At this point I can't imagine riding this at
highway speeds. I'd appreciate everybody's input, as I repair
the Spyder, Thanks
(Not so) extremebob sorry for the broken text, I'll do better next time.

Of course I'm very, very sorry to here about this ….. I read your post a couple of times and considering how fast this occurred, I believe if it was mechanical you would have noticed that something was not right fairly soon in the ride...… " IF " it was something in the steering it would have to have been " catastrophic " for this to occur. As others have said there is a " learning curve " to Spyders. But they do operate and handle quite similar to Auto's...… I drove motorcycles for about 50 years before my first Spyder ride …. It took about 15 minutes to begin to feel comfortable. ( I was in normal street traffic and it was a test ride with a dealer owned Spyder ). I can now drive my Spyder at highway speeds with one hand at times and feel quite confident I can safely drive it at those speeds ….. I suggest you read the " Do's & Dont's " thread before venturing out again ….. good luck …. Mike :ohyea:

[fatboy]

alignment and sway bar check tire pressures

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

As others have said I believe it is a mix of tires, alignment, and you. How many miles are on the Spyder? After you get it repaired double check the suspension parts for wear, especially if you're closer to 100k miles than zero miles. How much tread is there left on the tires? If it looks like they're original replace them with good car tires. You'll find lots of discussion here about which ones are best. Get a laser alignment done, even if you have to ride halfway across TX to have someone like JCThorne do it for you. Excessive toe-out can easily cause erratic steering. Then practice, carefully, until you get a good feel. If you've never ridden an ATV see if you can find one to ride for a bit. That will help condition your mind to the handling of the Spyder which is very nearly the same as an ATV and greatly different than two wheel steering.

It'll all work out! As for me, I feel safer on my Spyder at 80 mph on the Interstate than I ever did on my 2005 Goldwing at 70!

[Peteoz]

Welcome Bob. Sorry to hear about your accident, but glad you are ok.
As I headed out of the dealership for my first ride, I found myself turning into the oncoming traffic, automatically counter steering the bars from my 2 wheel experience. I had to force myself to concentrate on deliberately turning the bars in the direction I wanted to go. I was also weaving. After 50 miles or so, I no longer had to concentrate on turning with the curve, it became automatic. It took about 500 miles though before I relaxed a bit and loosened up my death grip on the bars. I have never had a problem since.

That does not mean that there is not something wrong mechanically, but my first experience was very similar to what you describe above, minus the Oak trees.

Pete

[merlot]

hi Bob
as previously mentioned check your front tyres.....they can give a good indication to the wheel alignment

if they show excessive wear on the inner edge(left or right wheel),then you could need a wheel align

take the wheels off,then take them to the tyre shop for new rubber.....after re-fitting you then need to take the bike for an alignment(within 300mls pref)

if your tyres are worn they may have been swapped and so running backwards,so check for direction too

if you do go new tyres then the ride will feel much better but if you dont wheel align the tyres will soon wear incorrectly again affecting the handling

be sure to look straight ahead when you change gears(not down at the gear selector)...remember,you will usually head toward where you are looking

good to hear you missed the big tree

i took 500kms before i was game to take bike out onto freeway(above 80kph)so you may need to give it time

russ

[fireplug98]

Sounds like you need to find a huge parking lot and practice, practice, practice !!!

Tommy J.

[MrBones]

I believe it was driver error.Taken from experience my test drive I started off from the curb and went directly into the front fender of a truck parked on the other side of the street. My bad was I turned too fast and promptly applied the right hand front brake ! Which we all know doesn't exist. Don't give up you will get used to it.

[Revalden]

If the tires on the front are still original Kenda tires, they were CRAP tires even when new. Now they are 8 years old. Do a Search for "Car Tires" that will fit your Spyder, even available from Walmart for about $55.00. NEVER put Kenda back on the Spyder!!! See if the ball joints are tight. How many miles on your new Mistress?

[Jaxfann]

I bought a 2012 Spyder RED SE5 a couple months ago.
Since that time I've been going through the whole thing,
top to bottom end to end. I've only driven it up the street
a couple times. Well I finally decided to take it out, ran it up
in first shifted to second and promptly ran off the road. I'm okay
the bike not so much. I get this side to side thing going on and he do
before I knew it I was headed for a very large oak tree which I
Luckily missed but in doing so I hit two smaller oak trees. I guess
they were 2 to 3" in diameter and probably 8 to 10 feet tall. Took
em both out. Anyway all this to ask is it me or the Spyder. I'm
going along fine and suddenly I'm weaving side to side.
Remembering to relax my death grip on the handle bars which
helps, but, geez are they that hard to ride? I'm a life long
motorcyclists which I understand doesn't help in the least,
to the contrary. At this point I can't imagine riding this at
highway speeds. I'd appreciate everybody's input, as I repair
the Spyder, Thanks
(Not so) extremebob sorry for the broken text, I'll do better next time.

Its you.

[AVBIZ]

Just signed up for the $99 two day training course- seems like money well spent.

[blacklightning]

Glad to hear that you were not injured. Going to a short wheel based 3 or 4 wheeled machine can be a little tricky. I had a couple of issues in the learning curve for my spyder, but they were worked out within about 200 miles, and then I felt comfortable. I also purchased a 4 wheeler from my uncle and it actually was a lot more difficult to learn how to ride. At speed, it was all over the place. Just the mix of learning something new with a short wheelbase and having 3 or 4 wheels can be tricky. Just practice, and be careful.

[wmjkweber02]

When I read your post, my first thought was that could have been me. I have been riding 2 wheels for over 5 decades, so, assuming there was nothing wrong with the trike, I have a pretty good idea what happened. You started drifting right and your body automatically made the correction. The drift worsened and the body increased the correction. This made it still worse and the mind and body froze and just rode it out. All this happens without conscious thought. I am so glad there wasn't something more dangerous in your path.

I need to go to 3 wheels if I am to continue riding. When I went on the test ride behind the salesman it was like the trike had a mind of its own. It seemed to want to do exactly the opposite of what I wanted. We had to stop several times to reset my head. By the time we got back to the dealer I was a nervous wreck. Another post mentioned a training class. Locations are listed on the Can-Am website. If you are determined to ride the beast, please find one. I took this class before making the purchase and, believe me, it is worth every penny and mile you have to drive to get there.

I have almost 1000 miles on my F3L and still have to continually think explicitly about what I am doing. Recently on a ride a car pulled up quickly to a stop sign on my right and I found myself heading right at it. In an instant I realized what I was doing and steered the other way. Not close, but still a bit unnerving. Several other times when pulling up to stop, I found my foot off the brake and my hand reaching for the hand brake. I was going very slowly, so I could quickly correct it.

These unconscious reactions developed over decades are not going to go away over night. In 2014 I downsized to a Honda CTX700 with the DCT. Two years later I still occasionally found myself reaching for the clutch when I had to make a quick stop.

The trike is naturally twitchy and eventually you will make corrections automatically. I installed the Baja Ron sway bar and that has made a big difference, greatly reducing the twitchiness. Or maybe I am just getting better adjusted.

Anyway, good luck. Just be very cautious, go slower than usual and give yourself plenty of room to stay out of situations that could trigger automatic reactions.

[BRPcare]

I bought a 2012 Spyder RED SE5 a couple months ago.
Since that time I've been going through the whole thing,
top to bottom end to end. I've only driven it up the street
a couple times. Well I finally decided to take it out, ran it up
in first shifted to second and promptly ran off the road. I'm okay
the bike not so much. I get this side to side thing going on and he do
before I knew it I was headed for a very large oak tree which I
Luckily missed but in doing so I hit two smaller oak trees. I guess
they were 2 to 3" in diameter and probably 8 to 10 feet tall. Took
em both out. Anyway all this to ask is it me or the Spyder. I'm
going along fine and suddenly I'm weaving side to side.
Remembering to relax my death grip on the handle bars which
helps, but, geez are they that hard to ride? I'm a life long
motorcyclists which I understand doesn't help in the least,
to the contrary. At this point I can't imagine riding this at
highway speeds. I'd appreciate everybody's input, as I repair
the Spyder, Thanks
(Not so) extremebob sorry for the broken text, I'll do better next time.

Hi Extremebob,

Good to hear no one was injured, and that you are okay.
This incident sounds like something worth looking into.

Would you be able to e-mail brp.care@brp.com with your contact information and VIN number?
We would love to look into this to ensure the safety of your unit.

We look foward hearing from you.

Kind regards

[rugercharger]

hi extremebob, when i took my first test drive on my 2010 rt, it wanted to go all over the road. i hesitated to take it past 50 mph. the test drive was about 5 miles. i got off and the only thing i thought was i wanted no part of it. but since the whole reason was getting my wife on a bike again, i bought it. if this catches a person off guard, i can see a person easily over correcting for this and getting into trouble especially with the "sensitive" steering. when i got it home one of the things on my list was checking the alignment. i just coudnt believe that a spyder could be THAT twitchy! i did find the alignment way off on the right front. after correcting the alignment. no more scary mind of its own twitchy road manner.

[MonPaul]

Sounds like you need to find a huge parking lot and practice, practice, practice !!!

Tommy J.

I was going to say the same thing. I would tell the dealer you are new to the spyder and don't feel comfortable and want to practice in their parking lot. If there isn't enough room maybe they can drive it or drop it off at a nearby parking lot so you can practice until you feel comfortable. It is easier to gain confidence when you're not worried about traffic or trees! I think you might have just oversteered, I remember how easier to steer with 2 wheels than the one I was used to. It took me about 1500 miles to feel comfortable, so you are not alone.

[UtahPete]

I bought a 2012 Spyder RED SE5 a couple months ago.
Since that time I've been going through the whole thing,
top to bottom end to end. I've only driven it up the street
a couple times. Well I finally decided to take it out, ran it up
in first shifted to second and promptly ran off the road. I'm okay
the bike not so much. I get this side to side thing going on and he do
before I knew it I was headed for a very large oak tree which I
Luckily missed but in doing so I hit two smaller oak trees. I guess
they were 2 to 3" in diameter and probably 8 to 10 feet tall. Took
em both out. Anyway all this to ask is it me or the Spyder. I'm
going along fine and suddenly I'm weaving side to side.
Remembering to relax my death grip on the handle bars which
helps, but, geez are they that hard to ride? I'm a life long
motorcyclists which I understand doesn't help in the least,
to the contrary. At this point I can't imagine riding this at
highway speeds. I'd appreciate everybody's input, as I repair
the Spyder, Thanks
(Not so) extremebob sorry for the broken text, I'll do better next time.

I'd have to say that's a fairly common experience with Spyders. They just won't stay on the road .... :ohyea:

[Peter Aawen]

I'd have to say that's a fairly common experience with Spyders. They just won't stay on the road .... :ohyea:


I dunno 'bout that! Mine just wont stay OFF the road! :ohyea:

Pretty much every day that I manage to crawl outta bed & discover that it's not freezing, absolutely pouring, or scorching hot, my Spyder somehow seems to be able to entice me to want get out & ON the road!! So I do... :clap: :yes:

That said, almost all new/only ever factory aligned Spyders really do need a 'proper' wheel alignment done by someone skilled in the process; and for most 'new Spyder Ryders', and possibly more so (or maybe especially more so) for those with lotsa 2 wheeler experience, there definitely IS a learning curve! :shocked:

I reckon it's cos Spyder Ryding is nowhere near as much of an 'intuitive skills transfer' for those with extensive 2 wheel riding experience as those without, there's just too much ingrained 'muscle memory' & instinctive reactions that accomplished 2 wheelers need to conciously overcome before they'll become really comfortable on a Spyder... and even if many don't like to admit it to themselves & would rather blame the machine, those ingrained 2 wheel responses can sneak up & grab you at the most inopportune times! Often, moving your body weight across to the inside of a turn is just as important as on a 2 wheeler, but it has virtually NO impact on where the Spyder is headed! You need to look well ahead at where you want go/the path you want to take, and lightly but actively steer the Spyder that way! :lecturef_smilie:

So if you relax & don't push too hard for it to become more natural & comfortable too quickly; keep your shoulders down & loose with light hands on the controls, look waaaay out ahead & plan where you want to go instead of concentrating on correcting every little deviation that the 2 wheels up front give you sooo many more of, and just give yourself the time & miles to settle in, it shouldn't be too long before the Miles of Smiles start rolling by! :2thumbs:

Enjoy! :thumbup: