We Need an Oil Additive Thread

[SCWSpyder]

Fellow Spiderites! So the video from Petron Plus shows it as the only additive able to prevent the bearing, used by peddler with a beam-type torque wrench, from stalling out the electric drive motor. So isn’t that proof it should make a 1330 Rotax motor last mochos longer, etc? Anyone use this?

[2dogs]

Hyperbole.......

[Grandpot]

If it is the new wonder snake oil, it would be in the owners manual for each car and bike on the planet.

[h0gr1der]

Fellow Spiderites! So the video from Petron Plus shows it as the only additive able to prevent the bearing, used by peddler with a beam-type torque wrench, from stalling out the electric drive motor. So isn’t that proof it should make a 1330 Rotax motor last mochos longer, etc? Anyone use this?

After much searching on places like Bob is the Oil Guy https://www.bobistheoilguy.com I've learned that if you have to add anything to the oil you've purchased an incorrect oil. Besides, if the additive is that slick it will by very nature wipe out the JASO MA rating on the oil and probably make the clutch slip. Just my thoughts...

[BajaRon]

Good luck with your wet clutch!:yikes:

I've played with a number of oil additives over the years. Oil has gotten much better. If you want to put something in your oil. Save your money and put it towards a better quality oil.

I would never put an additive into a wet clutch application. The best you could hope for would be that nothing went wrong. Not a good bet.

[2dogs]

The only additives I've ever known to be of benefit and actually work were a very high detergent additive to quite and loosen a stick lifter; and a very thick as honey oil additive (comes in many brands) that will temporally help a vehicle pass the exhaust smoke test, to in turn pass the actual smog test. That thick stuff helps to keep oil from easily passing by the valve guide seals. All these additives are only a temporary measures to mask issues that need major repair. Engines, transmissions and the like are just like people, they all only last so long.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Besides, if the additive is that slick it will by very nature wipe out the JASO MA rating on the oil and probably make the clutch slip. Just my thoughts...
My buddy back in the late 50s or early 60s added a "miracle" additive on the order of Bardahl or STP to his motorcycle. It took him weeks to get the clutch to quit slipping!

[PMK]

My buddy back in the late 50s or early 60s added a "miracle" additive on the order of Bardahl or STP to his motorcycle. It took him weeks to get the clutch to quit slipping!

Years ago, when two stroke gearbox oil arrived, it came in various viscosities. My friend decided he liked what he read and put what he thought was 80wt into his Maico 490. What he incorrectly put in the Maico was automotive rear diff GL4 gear oil.

That clutch slipped as no other. Ultimately, even after several gearbox flushes with motor oil, the clutch had to be torn apart and the plates washed in solvent.

[PMK]

Fellow Spiderites! So the video from Petron Plus shows it as the only additive able to prevent the bearing, used by peddler with a beam-type torque wrench, from stalling out the electric drive motor. So isn’t that proof it should make a 1330 Rotax motor last mochos longer, etc? Anyone use this?


Your engine would be fine on cheap engine oil. The gearbox is what destroys oil and sees wear. Sadly though, wet clutches do not like additives, especially Moly.

High quality automotive oils often contain “energy conserving” additives that render the oil too good for wet clutch use.

[BajaRon]

Your engine would be fine on cheap engine oil. The gearbox is what destroys oil and sees wear. Sadly though, wet clutches do not like additives, especially Moly.

High quality automotive oils often contain “energy conserving” additives that render the oil too good for wet clutch use.

Actually, there is LUBRICATION and there is SLIPPERYNESS (is that a word?). Though they tend to overlap, they are not really the same thing. You can get good lubrication without being extra slippery. It costs more to achieve this. But it can be done. This is what the JASO rating is all about.

[SCWSpyder]

So time for my dumb question: the spyder 1330 triple is a wet clutch?

[stu]

So time for my dumb question: the spyder 1330 triple is a wet clutch?

ron beat me to it,the jaso ma rating is the critical part and yes you have a wet clutch.dont add any additive to the oil.

[RICZ]

ron beat me to it,the jaso ma rating is the critical part and yes you have a wet clutch.dont add any additive to the oil.

That sez it all.

[Little Blue]

:coffee: All good Tips. Long story made short, ' Do Not Use any Additives in Spyders'.....:thumbup:

[PMK]

Actually, there is LUBRICATION and there is SLIPPERYNESS (is that a word?). Though they tend to overlap, they are not really the same thing. You can get good lubrication without being extra slippery. It costs more to achieve this. But it can be done. This is what the JASO rating is all about.

Not sure where you are headed with your comment. I purposely refrained from technical info in my post you quoted. Since you brought up the terms Lubrication and Slipperyness, which you may find is technically lubricity, but I may be wrong on that, and you are an a dealer for Amsoil products, i yield the floor and ask that you explain the subject matter you brought up.

[bikerbillone]

This may or may not be relevant, but I notice the newer model Harley's are using some heavy duty viscosity oil, not sure what's that's all about. Not comparing apples to apples I know, just a passing comment.

[carbonation]

Your engine would be fine on cheap engine oil. The gearbox is what destroys oil and sees wear. Sadly though, wet clutches do not like additives, especially Moly.

High quality automotive oils often contain “energy conserving” additives that render the oil too good for wet clutch use.
That is a myth as well.
Check out Redline oils. Their MC oils have over 400 ppm of Moly.
The solid moly (MOS2) doesn't work in HIGH concentrations, the tri-nuclear version of Moly does.
The only thing in 40 years of playing that I found is of any benefit, (and it is a very small benefit), is Ketjenlube. That ester doesn't cause clutch slip, and works in harmony with ZDDP to minimize wear. Others have stated, just get a decent oil and change it regularly. There are many out there, it is not hard to find one.
Ketjenlube blurb...http://www.italmatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Engine_Oils_brochure.pdf

[PMK]

That is a myth as well.
Check out Redline oils. Their MC oils have over 400 ppm of Moly.
The solid moly (MOS2) doesn't work in HIGH concentrations, the tri-nuclear version of Moly does.
The only thing in 40 years of playing that I found is of any benefit, (and it is a very small benefit), is Ketjenlube. That ester doesn't cause clutch slip, and works in harmony with ZDDP to minimize wear. Others have stated, just get a decent oil and change it regularly. There are many out there, it is not hard to find one.
Ketjenlube blurb...http://www.italmatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Engine_Oils_brochure.pdf

I step away. After reading his post, it seems every oil containing moly is acceptable, he can explain more.

Myself, I will continue using Mobil 1 10w40 Racing motorcycle oil with no additional additives.

[PMK]

That is a myth as well.
Check out Redline oils. Their MC oils have over 400 ppm of Moly.
The solid moly (MOS2) doesn't work in HIGH concentrations, the tri-nuclear version of Moly does.
The only thing in 40 years of playing that I found is of any benefit, (and it is a very small benefit), is Ketjenlube. That ester doesn't cause clutch slip, and works in harmony with ZDDP to minimize wear. Others have stated, just get a decent oil and change it regularly. There are many out there, it is not hard to find one.
Ketjenlube blurb...http://www.italmatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Engine_Oils_brochure.pdf


I do not even bother playing as you called it with oils or additives any more. My go to reading and source for oil quality is 540rats blog. No more Bob is the oil guy, no more internet forums, pretty much no more manufacturers sale info. I see what 540rat rates the oil at and accept it as accurate. Done.

[Highwayman2013]

Fellow Spiderites! So the video from Petron Plus shows it as the only additive able to prevent the bearing, used by peddler with a beam-type torque wrench, from stalling out the electric drive motor. So isn’t that proof it should make a 1330 Rotax motor last mochos longer, etc? Anyone use this?

Nope, don't add that crap. If you use a good quality synthetic oil you can go to the 9,300 oil change interval no problem. Not sure? Do your own oil analysis.

[SCWSpyder]

Thank you all! I believe I shall refrain from additives. But isn’t the Petron engine-running-less-oilpan is kind of impressive?

[BajaRon]

Not sure where you are headed with your comment. I purposely refrained from technical info in my post you quoted. Since you brought up the terms Lubrication and Slipperyness, which you may find is technically lubricity, but I may be wrong on that, and you are an a dealer for Amsoil products, i yield the floor and ask that you explain the subject matter you brought up.

I have done a lot with oil. But I do not consider myself to be an expert! As with any advise you get here, including mine. You apply it at your own risk!

Getting technical with all of this just puts people to sleep! But you have 2 actions going on with any lubricant.

1- The ability to keep moving parts separated. For example; ideally, the gear teeth, spinning bearing parts (whether they be solid, ball, needle, etc.), will never actually touch. One gear tooth transfers energy to the lubricant in between the 2 teeth, which, in turn, transfers that energy to the driven gear, without any metal to metal contact. When you consider the pressures involved, it is a bit mind boggling!

2- The amount of 'Friction' or drag produced in accomplishing task #1.

It is my understanding that 'Lubricity' encompasses both.

But I think the real take-a-way in this thread (which I consider to be a very valid subject). Is that though some oil additives might be a good idea in some situations for a single service application (like an engine only car, truck, lawnmower, etc.). In a multiple service application where you have an engine, transmission and clutch sharing the same lubricant. Additives are usually, if not always, a very bad idea.

If this tread saves just 1 owner the grief of finding this out the hard way. I say that it was well worth the discussion! :thumbup:

[carbonation]

I step away. After reading his post, it seems every oil containing moly is acceptable, he can explain more.

Myself, I will continue using Mobil 1 10w40 Racing motorcycle oil with no additional additives.

And frankly, you have made a good choice.
For the record I did not say every oil containing moly is OK.
But, there are a couple dozen MC oils that contain moly, they do not cause a problem. The majority of clutch slip problems are worn out plates, glazed and overheated, and sacked out clutch springs. Changing to a different oil puts them over the edge, and suddenly the lubricant is to blame.
You want zero moly? Valvoline synthetic MC. Honda HP4, several diesel oils.
Lots of folks here use AmSoil. You can check your self, but it has just about 40ppm of moly.
Your Mobil Racing 4T? About 75ppm of moly.
Very hard to say moly is the cause of clutch slip problems when majors add it to their premium offerings.
In conservative amounts, moly benefits cams and gearsets, while not upsetting the clutch.
Pick an MA rated oil, in the right viscosity and ride. Change it every once in a while. Ride some more.
You'll get more problems long run by having an oil past it's prime, sheared to a 20 weight, than with a splash of moly.
Your next post says you follow 540 RAT blog. Dive deep into that, he has many comments on moly and wet clutch.