Throttle body failures - Anyone considered a class action?

[Upcoaster]

Hello all,

At only 8K on the odometer, my 2010 RT SM5 is throwing the dreaded P1614 code so I've been reading up on this issue here and on other forums.

For as rampant as this issue appears to be on these bikes (to the tune of multiple failures within a few years of one another on the same bike) it feels like this should have escalated to full-on recall status. Obviously it wasn't.

Like most of you that have experienced this, my bike is out of warranty but the repeat failures definitely point to a design flaw, not something that just failed in the course of normal wear and tear. Personally, I'm staring down a bill of $1,3xx for the first go round and am very anxious about the prospect that I'll have to do it again and again.

I have gleaned that the throttle body has been revised and improved a few times. My dealer says that they have p/n 420686290 in hand (as of Thursday afternoon) and they're scheduled to install around mid-week. Has anyone had a 420686290 TB installed that subsequently failed? I found a thread here on spyderlovers from 2017 that mentioned an even later p/n of 420686292!!

I should probably have the dealer double-research that they were shipped the absolute latest rev of this part appropriate for a 2010 RT. Anything of the older variety that is less robust should have been scrapped and disposed of years ago by BRP!!

Another element of this that really has given me a dubious outlook is a comment from the BRP tech that was forwarded to me by the service manager at my dealer:
"...Regular cleaning will help prevent premature failure of the throttle actuating motor. ...”

If this part fails again (as seems to be a very common pattern), I’m concerned that the BRP can continue to hide behind…

a. Your warranty has ended, now bend over pay up and/or…
b. You didn’t clean the throttle body well enough or often enough, now bend over and pay up.


I’ve never owned a vehicle in my life (with any number of wheels) where special attention or TLC for the throttle body was required. For that matter, I’ve never even had need to become familiar with what a throttle body is or does until now.

It's really tempting to organize a class action suit regarding this but I'm not really clear on how big the class is. If you're a potential class member, sound off! if you're interested in pursuing this, add any relevant particulars about your experience. (Especially info like the throttle body p/n question above.)

Best regards,
David

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Hello all,

At only 8K on the odometer, my 2010 RT SM5 is throwing the dreaded P1614 code so I've been reading up on this issue here and on other forums.

For as rampant as this issue appears to be on these bikes (to the tune of multiple failures within a few years of one another on the same bike) it feels like this should have escalated to full-on recall status. Obviously it wasn't.

Like most of you that have experienced this, my bike is out of warranty but the repeat failures definitely point to a design flaw, not something that just failed in the course of normal wear and tear. Personally, I'm staring down a bill of $1,3xx for the first go round and am very anxious about the prospect that I'll have to do it again and again.

I have gleaned that the throttle body has been revised and improved a few times. My dealer says that they have p/n 420686290 in hand (as of Thursday afternoon) and they're scheduled to install around mid-week. Has anyone had a 420686290 TB installed that subsequently failed? I found a thread here on spyderlovers from 2017 that mentioned an even later p/n of 420686292!!

I should probably have the dealer double-research that they were shipped the absolute latest rev of this part appropriate for a 2010 RT. Anything of the older variety that is less robust should have been scrapped and disposed of years ago by BRP!!

Another element of this that really has given me a dubious outlook is a comment from the BRP tech that was forwarded to me by the service manager at my dealer:
"...Regular cleaning will help prevent premature failure of the throttle actuating motor. ...”

If this part fails again (as seems to be a very common pattern), I’m concerned that the BRP can continue to hide behind…

a. Your warranty has ended, now bend over pay up and/or…
b. You didn’t clean the throttle body well enough or often enough, now bend over and pay up.


I’ve never owned a vehicle in my life (with any number of wheels) where special attention or TLC for the throttle body was required. For that matter, I’ve never even had need to become familiar with what a throttle body is or does until now.

It's really tempting to organize a class action suit regarding this but I'm not really clear on how big the class is. If you're a potential class member, sound off! if you're interested in pursuing this, add any relevant particulars about your experience. (Especially info like the throttle body p/n question above.)

Best regards,
David

The 2010 ( & other years ) had some serious Oil issues from the engine breather that sent oil up into the AirBox ……. does your engine have the breather Mod done on it ???? ….. I had two V-twins that I did the Mod to ( early in their life ), and never had a " Throttle body " issue thru 20,000 + miles …… good luck …. Mike :ohyea:

[Haikanko]

I check OEM parts here in France and it came up with this -
420686292
CORPS PAPILLON *THROTTLE BODY | Inclus 1 à 13
This part replaces 420296974.

[Upcoaster]

Interesting you mention the oil loss issues as that is my other major concern with this machine.
I've monitored some excessive oil consumption on this 2010 as well. To the tune of around 1.5 quarts between changes. I mentioned this to the shop so they checked into it.
-Inspected engine for oil leak: None present.
-Inspected airbox for oil residue: None present.
They topped off the oil level, snapped a picture of the dip stick and told me to come back in 500 miles so they could benchmark the loss.

Here comes the strange part... the oil level stayed rock solid during that 500 miles so I'm partly questioning my sanity on that particular issue. Not really though. I'm pretty sure its not a mirage.

What is this breather mod you speak of? Is it a fix/mod/recall my dealer should be aware of??

[Haikanko]

Interesting you mention the oil loss issues as that is my other major concern with this machine.
I've monitored some excessive oil consumption on this 2010 as well. To the tune of around 1.5 quarts between changes. I mentioned this to the shop so they checked into it.
-Inspected engine for oil leak: None present.
-Inspected airbox for oil residue: None present.
They topped off the oil level, snapped a picture of the dip stick and told me to come back in 500 miles so they could benchmark the loss.

Here comes the strange part... the oil level stayed rock solid during that 500 miles so I'm partly questioning my sanity on that particular issue. Not really though. I'm pretty sure its not a mirage.

What is this breather mod you speak of? Is it a fix/mod/recall my dealer should be aware of??

The breather mod is via bajaron

[PMK]

We do not own or ride a V Twin Spyder. However, from posts I have read possibly here or on one of the Facebook groups, it appears that unless the Throttle Body has been damaged there is no need to replace it.

Yes, a shop can read the code and swapping in a replacement can repair the problem. Having read that independent shops, not dealers, that have true techs that are not simply parts changers, have easily cured the issue by properly cleaning the throttle body. Based on what I have read, the accumulation of typical deposits hinders the proper operation of the throttle body. Once the deposits are removed by properly cleaning, the throttle body functions correctly without triggering fault codes.

Yes, many have installed an air oil separator into the case breather hose. This can lessen oil vapor concerns.

The common failure of the rubber hoses has been addressed by owners with the upgrade to better temperature resistant silicone hose material.

In some cases, the throttle body was not even the culprit, simple age and failure of the coupling created the codes.

Simply, my point is, these possibilities should be investigated by a competent tech prior to purchasing a new throttle body. Granted, most everyone expects when they buy a modern vehicle for it to require little more than oil changes throughout its useful life. That may work for a low performance vehicle, but as performance increases, even the best vehicles do need attention. Possibly, and hopefully, for a couple of hours of shop labor you can be riding again.

[Mikey]

We do not own or ride a V Twin Spyder. However, from posts I have read possibly here or on one of the Facebook groups, it appears that unless the Throttle Body has been damaged there is no need to replace it.

Yes, a shop can read the code and swapping in a replacement can repair the problem. Having read that independent shops, not dealers, that have true techs that are not simply parts changers, have easily cured the issue by properly cleaning the throttle body. Based on what I have read, the accumulation of typical deposits hinders the proper operation of the throttle body. Once the deposits are removed by properly cleaning, the throttle body functions correctly without triggering fault codes.

Yes, many have installed an air oil separator into the case breather hose. This can lessen oil vapor concerns.

The common failure of the rubber hoses has been addressed by owners with the upgrade to better temperature resistant silicone hose material.

In some cases, the throttle body was not even the culprit, simple age and failure of the coupling created the codes.

Simply, my point is, these possibilities should be investigated by a competent tech prior to purchasing a new throttle body. Granted, most everyone expects when they buy a modern vehicle for it to require little more than oil changes throughout its useful life. That may work for a low performance vehicle, but as performance increases, even the best vehicles do need attention. Possibly, and hopefully, for a couple of hours of shop labor you can be riding again.

Unfortunately in a lot of the cases the competent tech part is the problem!!! And it's not just these machines, it's every thing we touch these day's, the big company's are pumping things out so fast to beat the next guy to the punch that they don't do the R+D before we get it and here we go we pay for there mistakes! The part that burns my backend even when it all points back to there crappy R+D they still will not own up to it!! When you go out and spend this kind of money some times all you should have to do is just change the oil and rub and scrub the darn thing. How many times have to seen a company take one of our fixes, and start doing it the next years models:banghead: JMO if you fudge up OWN it! I myself can turn a wrench and have a pretty good head for it, what hurts me is all the people out here that can't!

[ARtraveler]

Hello all,

At only 8K on the odometer, my 2010 RT SM5 is throwing the dreaded P1614 code so I've been reading up on this issue here and on other forums.

For as rampant as this issue appears to be on these bikes (to the tune of multiple failures within a few years of one another on the same bike) it feels like this should have escalated to full-on recall status. Obviously it wasn't.

Like most of you that have experienced this, my bike is out of warranty but the repeat failures definitely point to a design flaw, not something that just failed in the course of normal wear and tear. Personally, I'm staring down a bill of $1,3xx for the first go round and am very anxious about the prospect that I'll have to do it again and again.

I have gleaned that the throttle body has been revised and improved a few times. My dealer says that they have p/n 420686290 in hand (as of Thursday afternoon) and they're scheduled to install around mid-week. Has anyone had a 420686290 TB installed that subsequently failed? I found a thread here on spyderlovers from 2017 that mentioned an even later p/n of 420686292!!

I should probably have the dealer double-research that they were shipped the absolute latest rev of this part appropriate for a 2010 RT. Anything of the older variety that is less robust should have been scrapped and disposed of years ago by BRP!!

Another element of this that really has given me a dubious outlook is a comment from the BRP tech that was forwarded to me by the service manager at my dealer:
"...Regular cleaning will help prevent premature failure of the throttle actuating motor. ...”

If this part fails again (as seems to be a very common pattern), I’m concerned that the BRP can continue to hide behind…

a. Your warranty has ended, now bend over pay up and/or…
b. You didn’t clean the throttle body well enough or often enough, now bend over and pay up.


I’ve never owned a vehicle in my life (with any number of wheels) where special attention or TLC for the throttle body was required. For that matter, I’ve never even had need to become familiar with what a throttle body is or does until now.

It's really tempting to organize a class action suit regarding this but I'm not really clear on how big the class is. If you're a potential class member, sound off! if you're interested in pursuing this, add any relevant particulars about your experience. (Especially info like the throttle body p/n question above.)

Best regards,
David

I am noting a few things from your posting.

I owned a 2010 RTS Premier edition. Kept it four years and put 36,500 trouble free miles on it. I did have a throttle body issue on it...see below **

:ani29: Mileage. 8000 miles on a 2010 is less than a thousand miles per year. What kind of servicing has been done in the last 10 years? Should have had at least two oil change/filter services.

:ani29:** The throttle body issue I experienced was "hot starts." A hot engine took several attempts to start before it would catch. The dealer replaced TB under warranty and I had NO further problems.

:ani29: Ten years down the line, parts should be current stuff...if the dealer had to order it from BRP.

:ani29: Probably a little late for a class action law suit. If you speak about that here, you may find that BRP will clam up and let their lawyers do the talking. I would recommend going the dealer route and let them take care of business to get your RT running again.

:ani29: Oil consumption. The 998 two cylinders do use a bit of oil. I find that in between oil changes, if you do not regularly check (every 500 miles recommended), your use will be about a quart and a half. I still have a 2011 RT with 30K miles on it. Oil usage is the same as above. My 1330/3 uses no oil. 35K miles on that one.

[Gwolf]

No recommendations here, just a few comments. I rode one of the old hard mound EVO Harley Sportsters for about 20 years before buying the Spyder. The old Sportsters had the crackcase vent hose going back into the Carb intake. It was not a problem with a newer, tight engine. As the engine wore in the amount of oil mist going into the carb intake increased. There was also a possibility the little rubber umbrella valves in the heads could get old, less flexible, and allow more oil through the breather into the carb intake. I am not a one or two thousand mile a year rider. I live in Florida and ride 365 days a years. The only time I won't ride is if there is a hurricane blowing full force outside. I bought the new Spyder in April of this year and it is coming up on 5,000 miles now 5 months later. The oil issue on the Sportster was a known problem and home tinkers, then aftermarket suppliers had come out with a solution. A set of bypass lines were attached to the breather bolts and the oil mist was diverted from going back into the carb intake, to going into a catch can under the rear swing arm. That stopped all oil mist from going back into the intake. The oil mist was not a huge problem for a carburetor. What it would do is eventually soak the air cleaner with oil and drip down covering the whole right side of the bike and blowing back on saddlebags, etc. Some people just left the catch can off completely and vented the oil onto the road under the rear of the bike. It solved the problem.

One other observation not really related to the oil venting problem, but more along the lines of the current discussion about the legality of removing the catalytic converter, if the government was not requiring the manufacturers to put all sorts of complicated equipment on the new engines to save the planet, then people would not be so likely to be disconnecting the stuff when it affected performance or caused considerable expense after it dumped oil vapor back into the intake.

I have some other comments about government meddling in people's lives, but I will keep them to myself because that would get political.

[Upcoaster]

:ani29: Mileage. 8000 miles on a 2010 is less than a thousand miles per year. What kind of servicing has been done in the last 10 years? Should have had at least two oil change/filter services.


A good question. I just acquired this RT in October of 2018 at a dealer up in Lacey, WA. At the time of acquisition, it had a mere 2,700 miles on the odometer. I've put on 5300 during this past year. Indeed the dealer changed the oil and did a few other things to freshen her up before putting it out on the sales floor. It is during this, my first year of riding that I've experienced this alarming oil loss.

[ARtraveler]

A good question. I just acquired this RT in October of 2018 at a dealer up in Lacey, WA. At the time of acquisition, it had a mere 2,700 miles on the odometer. I've put on 5300 during this past year. Indeed the dealer changed the oil and did a few other things to freshen her up before putting it out on the sales floor. It is during this, my first year of riding that I've experienced this alarming oil loss.

More pieces to the puzzle. You can get the entire service history of the bike by having the dealer input the VIN #. Upon further thinking...oil changes should be done at least once a year...if recommended mileage for oil changes is not achieved yearly.

Get the service history from the VIN and let us know what you find out.

Another possiblity...did the previous owner dump a lemon? Not a frequent occurance...but it can happen.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

We do not own or ride a V Twin Spyder. However, from posts I have read possibly here or on one of the Facebook groups, it appears that unless the Throttle Body has been damaged there is no need to replace it.

Yes, a shop can read the code and swapping in a replacement can repair the problem. Having read that independent shops, not dealers, that have true techs that are not simply parts changers, have easily cured the issue by properly cleaning the throttle body. Based on what I have read, the accumulation of typical deposits hinders the proper operation of the throttle body. Once the deposits are removed by properly cleaning, the throttle body functions correctly without triggering fault codes.

Yes, many have installed an air oil separator into the case breather hose. This can lessen oil vapor concerns.

The common failure of the rubber hoses has been addressed by owners with the upgrade to better temperature resistant silicone hose material.

In some cases, the throttle body was not even the culprit, simple age and failure of the coupling created the codes.

Simply, my point is, these possibilities should be investigated by a competent tech prior to purchasing a new throttle body. Granted, most everyone expects when they buy a modern vehicle for it to require little more than oil changes throughout its useful life. That may work for a low performance vehicle, but as performance increases, even the best vehicles do need attention. Possibly, and hopefully, for a couple of hours of shop labor you can be riding again.

" COMPETENT TECH " :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: ...Good luck with that ……. jmho ….. Mike :ohyea:

[PMK]

" COMPETENT TECH " :roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: ...Good luck with that ……. jmho ….. Mike :ohyea:

Exactly...

So if BRP has instructions to clean a throttle body at a specified interval or condition, and the techs are not accomplishing that, should that then become a class action lawsuit against BRP?

If the owner ignores the suggested maintenance items, not really viable to have a class action lawsuit either.

As for a qualified tech, agree, not easy to find. In the aircraft repair industry it is actually pretty crazy that there are very few up and coming competent techs. Plus many that have this as a career are not very good. It’s not just those working on Spyders, there is not much talent anymore to fix things.

[Upcoaster]

The breather mod is via bajaron

So I went to the BajaRon link from the homepage here @ Spyderlovers and I don't see any reference to a product fitting this description. Lil' help, please? :helpsmilie:

HUGE thanks!
David

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

So I went to the BajaRon link from the homepage here @ Spyderlovers and I don't see any reference to a product fitting this description. Lil' help, please? :helpsmilie:

HUGE thanks!
David

II think it was called an " oil catch can " …. LaMonster did a video ??? ….. Mike :ohyea:

[Spyder Insyder]

This is strictly Antidotal, but a friend of mine was experiencing erratic idle and some power loss on his 06 Suzuki DL650 at about 45,000 miles. He added 8 ounces of Sea Foam to a full tank of gas and sprayed Sea Foam into the intake at fast idle. He claims this made a huge difference in performance.

[ARtraveler]

This is strictly Antidotal, but a friend of mine was experiencing erratic idle and some power loss on his 06 Suzuki DL650 at about 45,000 miles. He added 8 ounces of Sea Foam to a full tank of gas and sprayed Sea Foam into the intake at fast idle. He claims this made a huge difference in performance.

A good suggestion.

[Upcoaster]

II think it was called an " oil catch can " …. LaMonster did a video ??? ….. Mike :ohyea:

So it's a LaMonster product or a BajaRon product? I've searched the LaMonster Youtube channel and found only an oil change instructional video. Nothing about an "oil catch can".
Can someone send me a link?

Thanks,
David

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

So it's a LaMonster product or a BajaRon product. I've searched the LaMonster Youtube channel and found only an oil change instructional video. Nothing about an "oil catch can".
Can someone send me a link?

Thanks,
David

There was NO kit, that I ever heard of …. Ron ( of BajaRon ) used to send to requesting members a small piece of " course foam " to use with the breather oil catch can ….. send Him a PM … He will give you a LINK to follow ……. good luck …. Mike :ohyea:

[Upcoaster]

There was NO kit, that I ever heard of …. Ron ( of BajaRon ) used to send to requesting members a small piece of " course foam " to use with the breather oil catch can ….. send Him a PM … He will give you a LINK to follow ……. good luck …. Mike :ohyea:

Ahh. So I found this link: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?110965-Up-date-on-oil-catch-can-08-GS&highlight=catch-can Seems like a variation on the catch can concept to address the same sorts of issues.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Ahh. So I found this link: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?110965-Up-date-on-oil-catch-can-08-GS&highlight=catch-can Seems like a variation on the catch can concept to address the same sorts of issues.
Well, in some different posts about this, it Originally started using a "can" to catch any excess oil …. then it was decided that just using a filter did the same thing or better ….. I've been on this forum for a lot of years, so I've seen a lot of remedies and changes to those remedies ….. Mike :ohyea:

[Upcoaster]

So for future generations that are researching this issue, this:
https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?125583-Oil-in-998cc-air-box&highlight=air%20box%20filter&fbclid=IwAR0nwJL0Yp7u_JSsz2vcJLj3vhLjYsj_fYLvBCI32 Or2NcttNs8_E3cnuiU

seems to be the thread to end all threads for this nifty mod. I'll paraphrase but BajaRon states that while he had a hand in developing this mod, it does not exist as a "kit" that he sells since most everything is super commonly available from your local auto parts store. See details via the link I provided above.

[Journey]

I too have this same problem but cannot find the part to fix my 2010 RT. I called CanAm and they wouldn't confirm or deny getting their part out. I only have about 8,000 mi on my bike as well. Frustrating is not the word I am thinking of! My bike has been in the shop more than I have had the chance to ride!

[UtahPete]

I too have this same problem but cannot find the part to fix my 2010 RT. I called CanAm and they wouldn't confirm or deny getting there part out. I only have about 8,000 mi on my bike as well. Frustrating is not the word I am thinking of! My bike has been in the shop more than I have had the chance to ride!

8k miles over 12 years? I wonder if it's just not getting enough use?

[Bfromla]

:popcorn: