Brake Failer Reset Frustration!!!

[wilpir]

Ok I know this has been talked to death but... I pulled in a parking space with a little incline so I had my foot on brake while pressing parking brake before shutting off..Low and behold when I came back started my 2012RT Limited back up I got the warning lit up on my screen...ugh..I tried at least 15 different times to reset ( on different days) (also topped off brake fluid) with no luck..I use it to commute to work practically every day a whole 3 miles..brakes work fine only 7000 miles total on it any suggestions? I have an appointment in 2 weeks at dealer to look at it but I'd rather just do it myself..I've also seen 2 different ways to reset..take key out after ,step on pedal immediattly, ect tried them all.....am I doing something wrong? Also fault code was C1282:sour::sour::sour:

[FlyBoy2121]

I Wilpir

Here's what I'll do first, unplug the battery for 30 minutes, and plug it in.

FlyBoy2121

[wilpir]

Really? So this should reset it? I've never seen this said anywhere ,sounds so simple..Thanx Ill try it

[bwbarnes]

I had trouble resetting my Brake Failure error last year. I had to bleed the brakes and then do the low brake pressure switch reset to clear the error. Although the brakes felt good, it was clear to me by the increase in effort to get the low brake pressure switch (2nd switch) to click after bleeding I had air in my system.

[SpyderAnn01]

If you were parked on an incline my guess is you’re low on brake fluid. That code is low pressure.

[wilpir]

Ok I went and disconnected the neg side and the bikes starter tried to start it with no key in it! wth! I disconnected neg again and when I go to reconnect it the starter kicks in...now what the heck happened

[wilpir]

Bleeding brakes sounds like the way to go..The first thing I did was put fluid in...Now if I can only reconnect the battery without the starter motor kicking on..For the life of me I don't know how this happened...…..

[Grandpot]

Brake Warning Reset Procedure
If you do not have any codes, but still have a brake warning, it is possible the low pressure switch has been activated. There are three switches in the brake circuit. 1. Brake light switch, 2. Hydraulic pressure switch, and 3. Low pressure switch (this is really a limit switch that just senses the pedal has traveled too far). This can be reset by the following procedure.After a low pressure switch (LPS) problem hasbeen solved, it is necessary to clear the occurredfault in the VCM as follows:1. Turn ignition switch OFF.2. Wait 30 seconds.3. Turn ignition switch ON.4. Press the brake pedal, you should hear two clicks. NOTE: The 1st click will come from the brake lightswitch. Continue to strongly press the brake pedal to heara 2nd click. This one will come from the low pressureswitch. You may not hear the click, just push the pedal real hard.5. Turn ignition switch OFF.6. Wait 30 seconds.7. Turn ignition switch ON.8. Validate fault was cleared.
What caused the condition in the first place? This has happened to me a couple of times. When the parking brake is ON and your foot is on the brake pedal, then you release the parking brake, you will feel the brake pedal go down an additional amount. If it goes down far enough to activate the 3rd switch, that is when you get the brake failure message. Now I'm just careful of the pressure I put on the brake pedal when I release the parking brake. No more problems.

[wilpir]

I went to disconnect my battery as suggested on this thread to reset code..and when I went to disconnect neg side starter motor started..as soon as I disconnected it it stopped..When I go to reconnect it starter motor starts again even when key is not in ignition!! What the heck did I do wrong?

[wilpir]

Brake Warning Reset Procedure
If you do not have any codes, but still have a brake warning, it is possible the low pressure switch has been activated. There are three switches in the brake circuit. 1. Brake light switch, 2. Hydraulic pressure switch, and 3. Low pressure switch (this is really a limit switch that just senses the pedal has traveled too far). This can be reset by the following procedure.After a low pressure switch (LPS) problem hasbeen solved, it is necessary to clear the occurredfault in the VCM as follows:1. Turn ignition switch OFF.2. Wait 30 seconds.3. Turn ignition switch ON.4. Press the brake pedal, you should hear two clicks. NOTE: The 1st click will come from the brake lightswitch. Continue to strongly press the brake pedal to heara 2nd click. This one will come from the low pressureswitch. You may not hear the click, just push the pedal real hard.5. Turn ignition switch OFF.6. Wait 30 seconds.7. Turn ignition switch ON.8. Validate fault was cleared.
What caused the condition in the first place? This has happened to me a couple of times. When the parking brake is ON and your foot is on the brake pedal, then you release the parking brake, you will feel the brake pedal go down an additional amount. If it goes down far enough to activate the 3rd switch, that is when you get the brake failure message. Now I'm just careful of the pressure I put on the brake pedal when I release the parking brake. No more problems.

Yep but now I cant even reconnect battery terminal as starter kicks on

[FlyBoy2121]

If you notice the orca closes the switch when the engine is running the starter engages immediately when the engine stops.

FlyBoy2121

[Grandpot]

Does the initial screen appear? The one you need to press the mode key to clear.

[wilpir]

no, as soon as I go to connect neg wire the starter starts turning with no key in it..I immediately remove as not to fry starter

[wilpir]

If I leave neg wire attached and insert key bike starts and starter stops..should I connect neg wire start bike and turn off key to see if this remedies the problem? also trying to do this in 111 degree Arizona heat.....

[Grandpot]

First, remove the key completely, then leave the battery disconnected for one hour. This will assure the computer resets. Then without the key in the ignition, connect the negative lead of the battery. I am assuming you have not removed the positive lead. If that is successful, turn the key on and start the bike.

[wilpir]

This is what Im saying..I have the key out..when I go to reconnect neg wire it sparks a little and starter kicks over ..I never removed pos terminal side..So should I quickly reattach neg wire and insert key while starter is spinning start bike and then turn off?

[Grandpot]

Keep the battery completely disconnected for one hour. I want to make sure the computer is reset. Something is energizing the starter and I want to make sure it's not software. If that doesn't work, do as you just suggested.

[wilpir]

OK I'll wait an hour to see if this works …..

[wilpir]

Nope!!! Thanx Grandpot for your help but it wont stop..It violently sparks (almost welding itself to post)when I go to reattach the black wires and the starter spins..I didn't even try to start bike as I didn't want to fry the starter..Should of never listened to the poster that said for me to do this now my only recourse is to get a tow to shop.Hundreds of dollars for what was supposed to be a simple at home fix!!! Jeez....

[Grandpot]

Sorry to hear that. Unless you know someone with a BUDS system nearby, the dealer is your logical recourse. Good luck.

[wilpir]

Nope just moved here a couple of months ago...members should beware of posters offering advice that have no business in doing so especially from other countries!!

[Gwolf]

Does the starter try to engage even if the engine kill switch is off?

[wilpir]

Yes ..I tried that too..very confusing

[SpyderAnn01]

[QUOTE=wilpir;1466655]Nope just moved here a couple of months ago...members should beware of posters offering advice that have no business in doing so especially from other countries!![/

I know you’re frustrated but blaming someone else for your situation is wrong. If you didn’t know how to disconnect and reconnect the battery you probably shouldn’t have attempted it.

[wilpir]

Ive had motorcycles my whole life , raced supermoto for years never had a problem with disconnecting a battery in my life! Didn't know it would do this to my bike ! No where in the manual does it say this happens....

[Eviltwin]

Sounds like the starter solenoid is stuck closed. Not quite sure how that can happen, but I dont have another way to explain why it tries to crank as soon as the battery is reconnected.

[wilpir]

Sounds like the starter solenoid is stuck closed. Not quite sure how that can happen, but I dont have another way to explain why it tries to crank as soon as the battery is reconnected.
Any way to close it? What does it look like or where located?

[Gwolf]

D2 DIODE (STARTER SOLENOID)
D2 Diode Troubleshooting
A defective D2 diode will result in the following
conditions.
Shorted Diode
Fuse F8 will blow continually.
Open Diode
Diode will not provide protection to the sensitive
electronic components. Malfunction or damage
may occur to the ECM.


Replacement is on page 439 of my service manual. May be on a different page of your manual since I have F3-S. Same section has troubleshooting instructions and procedures for testing with a multi-meter. If you are going to attempt the repair you are going to need the manual and a few testing tools.

It just looks like a typical starter solenoid........

http://www.tanwater.com/pics/starter%20solinoid.png

[PaladinLV]

Turn the Emergency/Kill switch to OFF!
Hook up battery.

Then proceed as you normally would and see what happens. If it tries to start, let it start. Rev the engine, let it come up to temp and then try normal shutdown.

[Bfromla]

Automatic starter would mean stuck switch & or relay(by passing the computer), unrelated to the brake issue. Disconnected battery is a sound reset for the brake & other warnings, unfortunately something else just went wrong. & as many times as you have tried already, may cause physical damage to the battery & or wire terminal(weld pits). Glad you have not left on long.
Code C1282 according to the spyder codes app is : Possible hydraulic brake circuit leak. & needs to be checked for fluid leaks. If & when you get the battery/starter issue resolved. Suggest you look in manual & find what relay to pull some are supposed to be swappable.
Would definitely get the relay tested. The Solenoid could be bad too usually would pop fuses first & fail to start (usually, not 100%)

[Eviltwin]

D2 DIODE (STARTER SOLENOID)
D2 Diode Troubleshooting
A defective D2 diode will result in the following
conditions.
Shorted Diode
Fuse F8 will blow continually.
Open Diode
Diode will not provide protection to the sensitive
electronic components. Malfunction or damage
may occur to the ECM.


Replacement is on page 439 of my service manual. May be on a different page of your manual since I have F3-S. Same section has troubleshooting instructions and procedures for testing with a multi-meter. If you are going to attempt the repair you are going to need the manual and a few testing tools.

It just looks like a typical starter solenoid........

http://www.tanwater.com/pics/starter%20solinoid.png


Starter motor is on the front of the engine, not sure if the starter solenoid is there also. At this stage, probably the best bet is to remove the side panels and start looking around. You can trace back from the battery easy enough. It's going to be a heavy cable to carry the current. Can also go from the starter backward to find it.

When you locate it, try and disconnect positive and then see if the bike powers up with the battery. You can also check for the 12v signal voltage to the solenoid to see if somehow that is closing it or you could give it a sharp tap to see if its something mechanical that is binding it.

Basic troubleshooting at this point, if you arent comfortable with it then best to have it trailered to a dealer. HTH.

[Eviltwin]

Turn the Emergency/Kill switch to OFF!
Hook up battery.

Then proceed as you normally would and see what happens. If it tries to start, let it start. Rev the engine, let it come up to temp and then try normal shutdown.

What emergency kill switch? The one on the handlebar? If the solenoid is stuck, that switch is out of the equation.

Problem with this idea is that if indeed the bike started which is doubtful due to the electronics, then if the starter is still running the gear would be still meshed in the flywheel and it would probably trash the starter and may damage the flywheel.

[stevencovert]

Remove both fuse box covers, look for the starter relay. May be stuck. Remove it and try battery cable again.

[wilpir]

Remove both fuse box covers, look for the starter relay. May be stuck. Remove it and try battery cable again.

This sounds like a plan found the solenoid..could I just remove red wire from solenoid and then reattach neg to battery?

[Eviltwin]

This sounds like a plan found the solenoid..could I just remove red wire from solenoid and then reattach neg to battery?

Yes, if you remove the heavy red cable, there is no power to go to the starter. Then if the battery is back in the circuit, you can see what powers up. You can also test for 12v to the solenoid coil to see if that is holding it closed.

Starter relay may be stuck, removing it could also disengage the solenoid. But if solenoid is stuck then relay wont matter. Make sense?

[wilpir]

Yes, if you remove the heavy red cable, there is no power to go to the starter. Then if the battery is back in the circuit, you can see what powers up. You can also test for 12v to the solenoid coil to see if that is holding it closed.

Starter relay may be stuck, removing it could also disengage the solenoid. But if solenoid is stuck then relay wont matter. Make sense?

Yes I will try it , to see if it unsticks..Thanx out to garage to beat the heat....

[wilpir]

Ok removed the 2 red wires from starter solenoid..then was able to reconnect neg battery side no sparks no starting..when I went to reattach 2 red wires to starter solenoid, starter started spinning!..put key in and started bike went to turn off and starter was spinning..so I disconnected 2 red wires again..Any thoughts on how to unstick solenoid? Thanx for all the help at least its narrowed down now..

[Gwolf]

Ok removed the 2 red wires from starter solenoid..then was able to reconnect neg battery side no sparks no starting..when I went to reattach 2 red wires to starter solenoid, starter started spinning!..put key in and started bike went to turn off and starter was spinning..so I disconnected 2 red wires again..Any thoughts on how to unstick solenoid? Thanx for all the help at least its narrowed down now..


Yeah, I got some thoughts on it........ buy a new $25 starter solenoid and put it on before you have to spend several hundred replacing starter gears or wiring harness. If it stuck once, it will stick again, at the worse possible time.

[wilpir]

Yeah, I got some thoughts on it........ buy a new $25 starter solenoid and put it on before you have to spend several hundred replacing starter gears or wiring harness. If it stuck once, it will stick again, at the worse possible time.

Already on order along with a printed shop manual( to show how to change it out without messing anything else up!) so this doesn't happen again.....

[Gwolf]

Already on order along with a printed shop manual( to show how to change it out without messing anything else up!) so this doesn't happen again.....

That should fix the starter problem. Might be wise to test that D2 diode while you got it open. It should be right by the solenoid. Test procedures are in the manual starter repair section. If the diode is allowing reverse current or two way current it will damage the system.

[Eviltwin]

That should fix the starter problem. Might be wise to test that D2 diode while you got it open. It should be right by the solenoid. Test procedures are in the manual starter repair section. If the diode is allowing reverse current or two way current it will damage the system.

Maybe. Solenoid was closed, thats why the starter motor was running. He disconnected both wires and then reattached both. I would have left the heavy wire that went to the motor disconnected and checked for 12v on the thinner wire that should be coming from the the wiring harness. If that has power, that explains why the solenoid was closed. If it doesn't, then the solenoid is bad.

Now if that wire has power, then you need to keep going back to see what is energizing it. Somebody else mentioned a starter relay. I'm at work and cant check my bike to verify if there is one. That would be like a relay to fire a relay ;redundant. I've looked online, but cant find a wiring diagram. Somebody else that has a service manual can chime in about that.

[Gwolf]

Maybe. Solenoid was closed, thats why the starter motor was running. He disconnected both wires and then reattached both. I would have left the heavy wire that went to the motor disconnected and checked for 12v on the thinner wire that should be coming from the the wiring harness. If that has power, that explains why the solenoid was closed. If it doesn't, then the solenoid is bad.

Now if that wire has power, then you need to keep going back to see what is energizing it. Somebody else mentioned a starter relay. I'm at work and cant check my bike to verify if there is one. That would be like a relay to fire a relay ;redundant. I've looked online, but cant find a wiring diagram. Somebody else that has a service manual can chime in about that.



There is a starter enable circuit that must be energized before the the solenoid can engage (if it was working properly), but it comes off the ecm and all the mode button, brake light switch, kill switch, and other safety switches must be set before it can be enabled. The starter enable circuit should not be energized if the key is off, foot not on brake, kill switch set to off, or any of the other factors not set correctly before starting. In order for that to be part of the problem, all the safety switches would have to be malfunctioning and the starter button stuck. However, only the D2 diode and solenoid are in the end loop of that circuit and if the starter solenoid is stuck closed it would energize the starter with the key off and none of the conditions for a start being met.

[wilpir]

Is there a way to try and unstick solenoid? Everything was running perfect before unhooking neg wire..I left both red wires unattached waiting for new solenoid to be delivered

[Eviltwin]

There is a starter enable circuit that must be energized before the the solenoid can engage (if it was working properly), but it comes off the ecm and all the mode button, brake light switch, kill switch, and other safety switches must be set before it can be enabled. The starter enable circuit should not be energized if the key is off, foot not on brake, kill switch set to off, or any of the other factors not set correctly before starting. In order for that to be part of the problem, all the safety switches would have to be malfunctioning and the starter button stuck. However, only the D2 diode and solenoid are in the end loop of that circuit and if the starter solenoid is stuck closed it would energize the starter with the key off and none of the conditions for a start being met.

Sounds logical.

Wilpir, do you have a meter or test light to verify voltages on these wires? I wouldnt think a solenoid would stick, but who knows what happened when you were disconnecting the battery. More likely the diode that Gwolf mentioned could have shorted.

If you touch the thinner wire to the terminal, do you hear a click from the solenoid?

[Gwolf]

Is there a way to try and unstick solenoid? Everything was running perfect before unhooking neg wire..I left both red wires unattached waiting for new solenoid to be delivered

Put it on a concrete surface and smash it with a 12 pound sledge hammer.

[wilpir]

:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflb lack:

[wilpir]

Sounds logical.

Wilpir, do you have a meter or test light to verify voltages on these wires? I wouldnt think a solenoid would stick, but who knows what happened when you were disconnecting the battery. More likely the diode that Gwolf mentioned could have shorted.

If you touch the thinner wire to the terminal, do you hear a click from the solenoid?

No click...

[Eviltwin]

No click...

Could be the solenoid is stuck. Would be much more definitive if you could check for voltages.

[wilpir]

I have a multimeter where to test? red lead to red wire black lead to ground or neg battery terminal?

[Eviltwin]

I have a multimeter where to test? red lead to red wire black lead to ground or neg battery terminal?

Engine is ground. Connect the battery back in the circuit. Dont connect the big wire to the solenoid. Check for 12v on the signal wire to the solenoid. Should be 0 volts give or take. If it's 12v, then its keeping the solenoid engaged. If not, then the solenoid itself is stuck closed.

[wilpir]

So in laymans terms ...don't put back any of the 2 red wires and check small red wire for voltage... ground black multi to frame of bike?

[Gwolf]

So in laymans terms ...don't put back any of the 2 red wires and check small red wire for voltage... ground black multi to frame of bike?


You are not trying to find out what power is on the solenoid. It is like a heavy duty switch for the large cable from the battery to the starter. What you are trying to find out is if the two large posts, which would normally have the heavy cable attached to them, are opening and closing. In order to make the switch open and close the power is 'applied to/removed from' the smaller wires. To test that you measure the continuity across the two large posts. No power to the small wires, should mean no continuity measured across the large posts. Power applied to the small wires, should mean there is now continuity measured across the large posts. You should hear a definite click when it cycles. There is no reason to have either of the heavy wires hooked to the solenoid. You are only trying to determine if it is opening and closing. When the solenoid is wired to the starter and in the circuit, then it is acting as a switch and the starter case is grounded. Having the starter disconnected (heavy wires not connected to solenoid) will let you test the solenoid without danger of damaging the starter gears or burning up the wiring.

If you find that there is always an open circuit across the two large posts (not very likely), then test the voltage of the small wires.

If you find that there is always continuity from large post to large post, no matter if voltage is applied to the smaller wires or not, that means the solenoid is not functioning as a switch. It is stuck closed and is always a dead short leading from the battery to the starter.

The solenoid points inside the case could have become welded. If that is the case the solenoid is broken and must be replaced. It is pointless to attempt to get it working again. Even if you could break it loose and get it to open and close, the contact points would still be severely pitted and it would not be 100%. There is also a spring inside the case which should open the points when no power is on the electromagnet. If the spring is broken the solenoid is worthless. The case is sealed. The parts inside the case are not repairable. Throw it away and put a new one on.

http://user.pa.net/~kbeitz/Kevin/Tractor%20pictures/solenoid.jpg

[Eviltwin]

That is an excellent diagram. Hope the OP understands how it works. I'm not sure how much more layman I could make the explanation.

[Gwolf]

That is an excellent diagram. Hope the OP understands how it works. I'm not sure how much more layman I could make the explanation.



Yeah, that is just about as layman as I can possible make it.

[Revalden]

Yeah, that is just about as layman as I can possible make it.

That is the best possible diagram possible, for layman or expert.

[wilpir]

yep..replaced starter solenoid and all is right..Thanx Guys!!!

[Grandpot]

Thank you for letting us know the outcome. Sounds like it was an inexpensive fix if you did it yourself.

[Bfromla]

yep..replaced starter solenoid and all is right..Thanx Guys!!!:congrats::2thumbs::yes: now about the brake failure message that preceded :dontknow:

[wilpir]

:congrats::2thumbs::yes: now about the brake failure message that preceded :dontknow:

Gone!

[Gwolf]

Good deal.............

[JoshHefnerX]

Starter solenoids are like big relays. I've had them stick. Sometimes smacking them w/ a hammer will unstick them. It's only temporary but usually it'll get you home.

[Bfromla]

Gone!:yes::yes::yes::clap::clap: good to hear sorry all other troubles in between, hopefully saved you from a fail somewhere on the road like out of state trip:banghead::barf: &. Good idea to go ahead & document all you can for any possible future troubles. So you can share with a tech if need be. It was a unusual fluke & worth the notes. :thumbup:

[wilpir]

Well the brake fail screen came on again!! Im not going to even mess with it ..taking it to the dealer..hope its a quik fix..have to wait another week for an appointment

[wilpir]

Well just got back from dealer...They said air in system, worn rear brake pad ..they reset system , changed rear brake pads, replaced crush washers, changed and bled brake fluid..at a cost of $511 OUCH!! Live and Learn...

[Bfromla]

Well just got back from dealer...They said air in system, worn rear brake pad ..they reset system , changed rear brake pads, replaced crush washers, changed and bled brake fluid..at a cost of $511 OUCH!! Live and Learn...
They say anything about why the other issue occurred?

[wilpir]

No :dontknow:everything was checked all good now:thumbup:

[3Willie]

Tried the above reset procedure several times without any success. Will try the battery disconnect next to see if that will help.