Removing rear wheel

[Chasinsparks]

I received my Quad Trac 5 for the rear today, is there anything I should be aware of to remove the rear wheel, watched Bobs video and just trying to get all the education, tips and tricks before I tackle this job.

2016 RTL

I have a J&S Jack

2 36 MM Wrenches

Torque wrench

Locktite

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I don't know if He told you to un-bolt the Air Bag ARM on the left side of the swing arm and if you remove the rear shock bolt you will have enough slack to just take off the belt without touching the adjusters ….. don't put the jack on the shock bottom …. you can use the support tabs on either side though or the rear of the frame..... ( the tire is a Quatrac 5 ) ….. good luck … :ohyea:Mike

[Purple Guy]

Bob's video has it pretty well covered, good luck!

[Mazo EMS2]

Maybe snap a couple pics of everything before you take it apart....just for reference, but it's not a hard job

[Chasinsparks]

Thanks for the tips good catch on Quatrac damn auto correct..

[canamjhb]

You have all the tools you need...... Except two. First is patience. Go slow. The second is bandaids. To successfully complete any job requiring tools you must bleed at least once..... Jim

[Chasinsparks]

I agree, I have also put aside a long list of words to use as I see fit.

[PinkRosePetal]

I received my Quad Trac 5 for the rear today, is there anything I should be aware of to remove the rear wheel, watched Bobs video and just trying to get all the education, tips and tricks before I tackle this job.

2016 RTL

I have a J&S Jack

2 36 MM Wrenches

Torque wrench

Locktite

Yes, your grease seals will be wiped out, they always are because the spacer diameter is too big for the seal. Have two new seals and grease for them to hand.

A long extension and a 17mm socket to remove the caliper bolts without a fight.

This next bit no-one seems to believe because it's just too easy; to remove the belt you don't need any tools, yes, really! Chock the front wheels to prevent your Spyder moving, release the hand brake and jack up the rear. I use the shock mount because it's easy. Lie down alongside the belt side of your Spyder in a position so you can rotate the rear wheel downwards. Pull outwards on the top section of drive belt with your left hand and pull down on the tyre to rotate the wheel, the belt will walk a little sideways, continue to pull outwards and rotate the wheel and the belt will eventually walk off the pulley - it takes about three turns of the wheel.

I have no pictures of it because it didn't occur to me to post the info before removing a belt but it did when I was putting the belt back on so below is the picture sequence for replacing the belt. The advantages are; it's very easy, no removal of parts and no belt adjustment issues.

Use your long extension to remove/replace the caliper bolts, it will pass just under the muffler without issue.

When removing the caliper, do it very carefully so as not to move the brake pads, this will greatly facilitate refitting it because the pads will be wide enough apart to slide back over the disc - provided you don't bump them on the disc edge while refitting! Take care with that.

After removing the axle split pin, nut and washer, lower the wheel until it is just touching the ground, just enough to take the weight off the axle. A small tap on the right end of the axle using a drift of wood or aluminium, to prevent damage, will start it moving. If you've got the wheel at just the right pressure on the ground, you will be able to pull the axle out by hand. A pair of vise grips clipped onto the axle nut will give you a little more to hang on to. If it's seriously tight you've got it loaded up by the wheel weight - up or down.

Lift the bike high on the jack and roll the wheel out rearwards.

Reassembly is the reverse after cleaning everything up and fitting the new grease seals. Fill them and the space to the bearing with grease. It keeps water out of the bearing.

When rolling the wheel back in, it's easy to inadvertently dislodge the caliper mounting bracket. Take care.

Be sure you replaced the spacer in the rear of the pulley when you fitted it back to the wheel, and you need to get the pulley pretty much squeezed back into the cush rubbers before rolling the wheel in or you'll find it is still too wide to properly fit into the swing arm space.

Do take time and care to get the holes in the wheel and the swing arm lined up accurately then the axle will go back in with ease - be sure to have greased it a little.

Give yourself an easy time retorquing the axle by applying your torque wrench to the outer end of the axle (left side).

Finally, use no force, take time to align and fit and you won't need any swear words. Bleeding is not a requirement.

Here are the pics of refitting the belt, start by fitting it as far as you can from the bottom then push the wheel upwards - easy peasey...

[Chasinsparks]

Are you saying you were able to remove the tire without removing the shock bolt by rolling your belt off? "your grease seals will be wiped out" are you talking about the seal and o ring?

[PinkRosePetal]

Are you saying you were able to remove the tire without removing the shock bolt by rolling your belt off? Yes.


"your grease seals will be wiped out" are you talking about the seal and o ring? No. There are grease seals on each side of the wheel and spacers fit through them.

Here's a few pics below to show the problem and the last picture shows the modified spacer and it's seal These are the seals at just 350 miles, yes, you read it correctly, 350 miles!, you can clearly see the seal lips melted from the seals. The spacer diameter is far too large for the seals and they wipe out quickly. The fix is to turn down the outer diameter of the spacers to the correct size but, obviously, you need someone with a lathe to do this.

Just in case you fancy doing this, here's one more tip... the standard seals are an unusual internal diameter and the only source I've found is BRP at their inflated price, however, there is a commonly found seal with the correct outer diameter and thickness but a slightly reduced inner diameter of 35mm. If you get the spacers turned down you might as well take them down to 35mm and use the alternative seal which is readily available and cheap to buy. The seal is 55o/d x 35i/d x 9 thick. It has the advantage too of reduced rubbing speed (reduced heat to the seal rubber) because the diameter of the spacer is now smaller.

[Chasinsparks]

Thanks for the great explanation, seems like a lot to just put a new rear tire on but it is what it is and with all the enjoyment of riding it will be worth it.

[PinkRosePetal]

Yeh, it seems like a lot when it's written down but it's not really. Go carefully and it does take time but you'll be sure it's a better job than BRP did in the first instance. :thumbup:

[RICZ]

PinkRosePetal.....What model and year Spyder do you own? I'm wondering if that seal/bushing problem is common to all.

[PinkRosePetal]

PinkRosePetal.....What model and year Spyder do you own? I'm wondering if that seal/bushing problem is common to all.I don't know whether it's common to all models but it is the case on the v-twin 2012 RT and all 1330 RTs. I'd be surprised if it didn't apply to all the models which use that same rear wheel system.

[PinkRosePetal]

If you don't attend to this problem and ride frequently in wet conditions, this is what will happen to your wheel bearings.

Year 2014, 1330RT, one year old.

The unprotected wheel adjuster blocks need to be fully greased for protection too. Pretty much everything BRP puts together on these bikes is assembled dry, it's mostly fine if you live in a dry climate or never ride in rain but for the rest of us it's simply a shortening of the vehicle life from the get go.

[AeroPilot]

Wow, interesting pics on the corrosion of the aluminum adjuster blocks. The wheel change tear down is a good time to clean and inspect for this kind of damage and thanks to a dry climate out west, I haven't seen this type of damage. I do clean the spacer bushings in solvent, wipe clean, inspect and regrease with a light skim of red bearing grease before reassembly as well and cleaning out the seal cavity and dabbing a little grease behind the seal. I used to grease the adjuster blocks but found that it seems to attract dirt and usually just clean, and regrease the axle and lightly touchup inside the axle washers and the surfaces of the swingarms.

Very nice pics and description for the range of conditions seen. My spacers and seals have lasted for 50-70,000 with this cleaning regimen, although I keep a spare Oring or two for the pulley to wheel recess, and always clean and lightly lube before reassembly. Bearings and seals should always be inspected.. just my experience in a drier climate.

[jcthorne]

Yes.

No. There are grease seals on each side of the wheel and spacers fit through them.

Here's a few pics below to show the problem and the last picture shows the modified spacer and it's seal These are the seals at just 350 miles, yes, you read it correctly, 350 miles!, you can clearly see the seal lips melted from the seals. The spacer diameter is far too large for the seals and they wipe out quickly. The fix is to turn down the outer diameter of the spacers to the correct size but, obviously, you need someone with a lathe to do this.

Just in case you fancy doing this, here's one more tip... the standard seals are an unusual internal diameter and the only source I've found is BRP at their inflated price, however, there is a commonly found seal with the correct outer diameter and thickness but a slightly reduced inner diameter of 35mm. If you get the spacers turned down you might as well take them down to 35mm and use the alternative seal which is readily available and cheap to buy. The seal is 55o/d x 35i/d x 9 thick. It has the advantage too of reduced rubbing speed (reduced heat to the seal rubber) because the diameter of the spacer is now smaller.

There is something going on with your bike. Those grease seals usually look like new when changing a tire. They only need replacement when pulling and pressing in new bearings. Even then its only because the seal is destroyed when removing it to do the bearings.

Also we find it much easier to remove the shock bolt and let the swing arm drop much further. Then the belt just slips off and it makes removal of the wheel and brake caliper much easier too. Either way works though.

[PinkRosePetal]

There is something going on with your bike. What makes you think it's my bike? But you're right, there is something going on, the seals are being wiped out at very little use.


Those grease seals usually look like new when changing a tire. I'd put money on them looking lovely and super smooth and polished - exactly how they shouldn't look. Grease/oil seals work by sliding very lightly onto the shaft which they're sealing, they seal because they have sharp edges and the pressure under that sharpness is high - kinda like a stiletto heel on a shoe able to damage a floor because of the concentration of pressure. Once that sealing edge is worn to approx 1mm wide the seal can be considered to be worn out.

On a Spyder the spacer wears the sealing lips almost completely off in a short time and leaves a wide polished surface which looks good so it is mistakenly thought that's how it is meant to be...it's not. See pictures below.


They only need replacement when pulling and pressing in new bearings. Even then it's only because the seal is destroyed when removing it to do the bearings. I'd change my practise if I was you. ;)


Also we find it much easier to remove the shock bolt and let the swing arm drop much further. That's fine, your choice if you prefer to give yourself more work than necessary.


Then the belt just slips off and it makes removal of the wheel and brake caliper much easier too.Fine again. Though I fail to see how the job becomes easier since the relationship of the swing arm to the wheel to the brake disc to the caliper stays the same no matter the angle of the swing arm.

Below is a couple of pics of seals showing the edges, more for folks who are reading this and are not familiar with them so they can understand what we're talking about. In the stack of seals they do appear to have a wide flat as the second lip but it's an optical illusion, the flat area is actually angled approximately 45 degrees. Look carefully at the other picture. There are two lips per seal, an outer wiper lip and an inner sealing lip. It's good practice to fill this space between the lips with lubricant so they never run dry on the spacer.

On a Spyder, I recommend filling the cavity between the seal and the bearing completely as a precaution to prevent water ingress.

[Chasinsparks]

Interesting for sure. I only have 2800 miles on my bike just want to change the Kendra in for a vredestein quatrac 5 205/65r15. Maybe I should see if the dealer would do it seems if bearings are wearing out that quickly it would be covered under the warranty.,

[Highwayman2013]

I lived in Pennsylvania and my adjusters bearing and seal were fine on my 2012 RT when the tire was changed. The pictures shown looks like something that would happen if the bike was ridden in the winter with rock salt on the roads.

[Woodaddict]

pinkRosePetal location is UK, they have much more salt in air from ocean, its an BIG island like living near coast in USA

[jcthorne]

What makes you think it's my bike?

Law of averages. I have changed over 100 rear tires on Spyders and have never seen one that needed that seal replaced other than when pressing in new bearings (done my share of those too). So if yours is eating seals and I have seen 100 that are not, leads me to believe there is something going on with your bike rather than the design. you are also the first to report this problem here on SL.

In this application they are not really grease seals at all as there is no grease behind them. They are dust seals to keep grime out of the bearings. They do their job as designed for many thousands of miles. Inside of hubs and bearing look new and clean with 50k miles when I usually recommend bearing replacement. ( on the newer one piece wheels ). I really think you are overthinking this and making a problem where there is not one.

I also think your method of removing and worse installing the belt with the rear sprocket raised and the belt under tension is far more difficult and trouble prone than the removal of one easy access bolt on the bottom of the shock to do the job as intended. Some bikes the upper caliper mount bolt is still up behind the muffler until you remove the shock mount bolt making access much more difficult. Its not the same on all bikes depending on the exhaust and body style.

[PinkRosePetal]

I lived in Pennsylvania and my adjusters bearing and seal were fine on my 2012 RT when the tire was changed. The pictures shown looks like something that would happen if the bike was ridden in the winter with rock salt on the roads.Regarding the corrosion photos you're likely correct. That bike was brought to me for a tyre change at approx 8000 miles. After dismantling the rear wheel we found what you see in the pictures and the seal was completely wiped out, a rusty bearing and there was corrosion also on the sprocket and it was replaced under warranty. It was then, when refitting the new parts, we discovered just how tight the spacers fit into the new seals and it explained how the seals were wiped out and how that allowed the ingress of water to the bearing which you can see is fairly rusted. We machined the spacers and completed the job, the owner was made aware and that was that.

Move on a fair few months and we worked on a 2012 RT for a complete tyre change, this bike had never seen water and was in pristine condition but we made sure to check the seals when replacing the rear tyre and, sure enough, they too were wiped out but the bearings were fine. We machined the spacer and fitted the matching seals and, as far as I know the bike is still going fine.

Move on again. The owner of the 2014 RT - the corroded one - purchased a new RT and came to us to have the new bike under waxed for protection and to have the rear wheel seals checked. The pictures you see with the seal lips tearing are from that brand new RT at approx 350 miles, the distance from the main dealer to me.

We've since done a similar check on another brand new RT and it too had the seals failing, it came from the same dealer so had also just covered the same 350 miles. This is not a once only occurrence.

Some time after this I took the opportunity to visit a Can-Am dealer - a different dealer - since I was in the vicinity, for interest sake, just to check out the range of vehicles they sell and I mentioned the seal issue on the RT Spyders. They, like you folks, said they'd never come across this situation and took me through to the workshop where they'd shortly finished replacing bearings in an RT and they recovered the old seal from the trash, looked at it, announced it was OK and handed it to me. I was wiped out too and it seems that because the sealing lips are completely gone and the remainder of the seal rubber polishes smooth they were not recognising what they were looking at. Anyway, they do now. I urge you folks who service your rear wheels to have an open mind about this and check very carefully that what you see is actually what you should be seeing.

If you live in a dry climate or don't ride in the rain a worn seal will likely do, provided the spacer still makes contact with the rubber. If you ride in the rain, in the winter or you hose your bike to clean it then the seals need to be watertight and worn ones will not be, as you can see from the rusty bearing in the sprocket. For info, I use water resistant grease for anything external or which requires specific protection.


Well I think I've said my bit and you guys can make of it what you will, you've got pictures of the evidence of the seal damage, you can see that the parts are new so there is no cheat in the pics. The parts are not complex, simply a spacer through a seal so it would be tricky for there to be something unusual going on. Perhaps Chasinsparks will come back after he's completed his tyre change and tell us what he found. :thumbup:

[jcthorne]

Do you realize there is an o-ring between the sprocket and the wheel that is torn on assembly on almost every new bike? The rear axle is not water tight. Not designed to be. These are just dust seals and are doing their job just fine. Folks do NOT need to tear down new bikes and redesign the rear hub. Simple rain blowing by is far different than submersion and these are NOT designed for submersion. You are making up problems where they do not exist.

[P.W.]

Sorry for my ignorance.... but who is Bob and where can I watch this video?

Thank you,
P.W.

[h0gr1der]

Sorry for my ignorance.... but who is Bob and where can I watch this video?

Thank you,
P.W.

https://youtu.be/MWtbQPdKd8w

Mr Finless Bob has helped many a folk with tire removal, me included.

[P.W.]

Thanks for the info!

[Chasinsparks]

Here is the link to the VIDEO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWtbQPdKd8w

[Chasinsparks]

UPDATE:

I did the wheel removal and tire install today. Following every ones advice, the job it's self was pretty straight forward. Took longer to get the tire mounted on the rim than doing the work.

What did I learn:

Removing the sensor in the swing arm was the worst part.

I tried to remove the belt with out taking the shock bolt out. I was not able to do it that way, once I removed the bolt from the shock there was no problem.

Bearings and seals looked good.

The manual shows removing the hub, my wheel has a solid hub nothing to remove ( I guess that is what you call it) the brake disc mounts right to it I removed the brake disc on one side and the drive pulley on the other.

Mr. Tire had no problem mounting but said he never seen a rim like that and could not balance it, did not charge for the mounting.

I reinstalled wheel and torqued to specs too it for an extended test ride, would never no it was not balance super smooth.

Tire is a 205 60 15 Quad Trac 5


Thank you all that chimed in and gave e your input and advice.174424

[jcthorne]

UPDATE:

I did the wheel removal and tire install today. Following every ones advice, the job it's self was pretty straight forward. Took longer to get the tire mounted on the rim than doing the work.

What did I learn:

Removing the sensor in the swing arm was the worst part.

I tried to remove the belt with out taking the shock bolt out. I was not able to do it that way, once I removed the bolt from the shock there was no problem.

Bearings and seals looked good.

The manual shows removing the hub, my wheel has a solid hub nothing to remove ( I guess that is what you call it) the brake disc mounts right to it I removed the brake disc on one side and the drive pulley on the other.

Mr. Tire had no problem mounting but said he never seen a rim like that and could not balance it, did not charge for the mounting.

I reinstalled wheel and torqued to specs too it for an extended test ride, would never no it was not balance super smooth.

Tire is a 205 60 15 Quad Trac 5


Thank you all that chimed in and gave e your input and advice.174424

Just FYI, there is no need to remove the brake rotor (or the hub on the older wheels) to mount a new tire. Most tire shops do not have equipment to balances these, they require a motorcycle tire balance machine because of the small bore.

174449

[Chasinsparks]

Even though I did not get it balanced, you would never know it is actually better than some balanced tires on my Audi Q7. I decided to remove the brake rotor did not want to take a chance of the tire shop messing it up, only 5 bolts to remove. I could not find a bike shop that would balance it with a car tire mounted. Anyway all is good and I do appreciate everyone that offer tips, tricks, and advice.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Even though I did not get it balanced, you would never know it is actually better than some balanced tires on my Audi Q7. I decided to remove the brake rotor did not want to take a chance of the tire shop messing it up, only 5 bolts to remove. I could not find a bike shop that would balance it with a car tire mounted. Anyway all is good and I do appreciate everyone that offer tips, tricks, and advice.

For my past 5 rear tire changes I haven't balanced any rear wheel/tire and have had No issues either …. Mike :ohyea:

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Even though I did not get it balanced, you would never know it is actually better than some balanced tires on my Audi Q7. I decided to remove the brake rotor did not want to take a chance of the tire shop messing it up, only 5 bolts to remove. I could not find a bike shop that would balance it with a car tire mounted. Anyway all is good and I do appreciate everyone that offer tips, tricks, and advice.
My tire shop put some commercial quality liquid balance (NOT Slime or Ride-On!) in my tire since they couldn't spin balance it. It's the same stuff they use in truck tires. Works good.

[CapnPete]

Just as a matter of curiosity.....

I removed my rear tire to upgrade the rear shock to M2 and the tire itself to a General. What a pain in the azz.

I too removed my rear disc in the vain hope my local tire shop could balance the rear with the new tire. They mounted it but had to go to dealer for balance. Anyway...the shop manual sez to trash the disc bolts and replace with new. Did you? I did not, just cleaned and re-locktited.

just wondering

[TerryTheSpyderRyder]

You have all the tools you need...... Except two. First is patience. Go slow. The second is bandaids. To successfully complete any job requiring tools you must bleed at least once..... Jim

Not if you wear gloves:banghead:

[RICZ]

PinkRosePetal,
Lemme get this straight. You have machined the spacers to what dimensions? Do I assume correctly that only the OD of the flange and the OD of the barrel were reduced?
The 55 X 35 X 9 is the off-the-shelf seal and not the BRP seal? Got a number for that OTS seal?
Does this apply to 2017 F3Ls such as mine?
Is there a number (not BRP's) on the OEM seal? I have a huge bearing supply house near me, maybe they'd have one that will work.

[spyder01]

I just changed my rear tire last week, 3rd tire on the bike but first time using a car tire on the back. I changed out my bearings and seals bc I had read here that they were failing at low mileage, but then I found out that it was old info and not true. My bearings were fine as well as the seals and no corrosion anywhere and I live in a beach town on the east coast and ride in the rain a lot. I'm not sure what kind of conditions these bikes in question are riding in, maybe they brine the roads in the UK and these folks are riding on a wet salty road. But even so the one bike only had 350 miles on it. I do remember one time I drove my Goldwing to Florida in the winter and I95 was salted in a few areas. When I got home 2 weeks later I found the rear wheel was heavily corroded. Ever since then I wash my bike a couple times during my trips.

[Bfromla]

I just changed my rear tire last week, 3rd tire on the bike but first time using a car tire on the back. I changed out my bearings and seals bc I had read here that they were failing at low mileage, but then I found out that it was old info and not true. My bearings were fine as well as the seals and no corrosion anywhere and I live in a beach town on the east coast and ride in the rain a lot. I'm not sure what kind of conditions these bikes in question are riding in, maybe they brine the roads in the UK and these folks are riding on a wet salty road. But even so the one bike only had 350 miles on it. I do remember one time I drove my Goldwing to Florida in the winter and I95 was salted in a few areas. When I got home 2 weeks later I found the rear wheel was heavily corroded. Ever since then I wash my bike a couple times during my trips.
:popcorn: also similar :oldpost: Not bad thread & maybe not as specific as some may like to be. New bearings not a bad thing & at 3rd tire bout par:thumbup: should inspect at every change by default maybe keep a set handy (with current supply delays). Keep good maintenance & miles logs just peace of mind if nothing else:clap: