Handlebar looseness

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Take a look at this video. It shows how much play there is in my RTS handlebar.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tm80c3e2u18bej/20190716_201354.mp4?dl=0

Has anyone else experienced this? How much play, if any, is normal? The best I can tell it looks like the play is in the ball joints at the steering column end of the tie rods.

[Peter Aawen]

Looks pretty much standard to me, not that we can really see all that much to judge!? :shocked:

It might be better to show us one END of the bars looking down over the top of a wheel so we can see the distance the end of the bar travels before the wheel starts moving (& maybe see one tie-rod end too?) :dontknow:

And please bear in mind that the DPS will 'take up' some of that handle bar movement once you do actually start moving the Spyder, and altho you've shown us what yours does while the Spyder's standing still with the engine running, at least some of that movement is likely due to the 'slack' built into the top end of the system due to the elec steering assist.... ;)

Over to you! :thumbup:

[Spyderlass]

The tierod ends are of variable quality, I've had tight ones and ones so slack when new that I wouldn't put them on to the bike.

To check them you need an assistant: Put your hand around the joint and hold it gently but completely, have someone rock the front wheel side to side to load and unload the joint. If you feel it knock it has play in it.

You can reach in through the suspension to check the inner ones. It's not uncommon to have one good and one bad on the same side of the bike.

I don't know about your area but here it's not possible to buy just the end, we have to buy a complete tierod assembly. If you do this, check the ends before you fit them.

For info: If you rock the wheel top to bottom you can check for top ball joint play in a similar way.

Just watched your vid, I'd say you have some wear or looseness in there, it's very free and kinda clicky in appearance.

[Jeriatric]

Just checked my 2011 RT. Engine off, and the free play movement is similar. I'm thinking most of that disappears once the bike is running. At least that's what memory tells me.

[Jeriatric]

The tierod ends are of variable quality, I've had tight ones and ones so slack when new that I wouldn't put them on to the bike.

To check them you need an assistant: Put your hand around the joint and hold it gently but completely, have someone rock the front wheel side to side to load and unload the joint. If you feel it knock it has play in it.

You can reach in through the suspension to check the inner ones. It's not uncommon to have one good and one bad on the same side of the bike.

I don't know about your area but here it's not possible to buy just the end, we have to buy a complete tierod assembly. If you do this, check the ends before you fit them.

For info: If you rock the wheel top to bottom you can check for top ball joint play in a similar way.

Has it been your experience that the ball joint problem generally presents itself with a noticeable front end shake?

[jtoro1]

On mine the looseness came from the steering rod the bottom coupling being loose on the spline all fixed

[JayBros]

I have had the same situation on mine from the get go but once running and on the road I notice none.

[Spyderlass]

On mine the looseness came from the steering rod the bottom coupling being loose on the spline all fixed
I think that's a good catch and worth checking.

[Spyderlass]

Has it been your experience that the ball joint problem generally presents itself with a noticeable front end shake?

Well, it was a progressive wheel shake while braking that alerted me to a problem. The cause of the shake was an out of true front hub, discussed on another thread, but the tierod was replaced first and gave better control of the errant wheel.

So, to answer your question, I've not ridden with only the worn tierod ends. I wouldn't imagine you'd have a wheel wobble but I'd bet the steering would feel even more waney because the wheel would be free to follow road imperfections.

[Jeriatric]

Good to know.

Similar shake problem here but it was totally due to ball joint failure.

[bcer960]

I am getting my ball joints replaced next week. I have noticed some shaking this year that i didn't remember from last year. Thought maybe I had chucked a weight on one wheel. But it does smooth out some times too. I'll report back after they are done. I am getting new front tires put on at the same time, so they will have to re-balance them, so my findings may say what the issue was. I am getting un-even wear on my left tire.

As for the handle bar play, mine is about the same as what is shown in the vid. I checked it with a couple of other bike when i first got mine. They were about the same.
Ray

[Jeriatric]

I am getting my ball joints replaced next week. I have noticed some shaking this year that i didn't remember from last year. Thought maybe I had chucked a weight on one wheel. But it does smooth out some times too. I'll report back after they are done. I am getting new front tires put on at the same time, so they will have to re-balance them, so my findings may say what the issue was. I am getting un-even wear on my left tire.

As for the handle bar play, mine is about the same as what is shown in the vid. I checked it with a couple of other bike when i first got mine. They were about the same.
Ray

Have you had it laser aligned?

[40Xshooter]

The play in your bars looks EXACTLY like mine. I have a '16 RT-S. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[bcer960]

Have you had it laser aligned?
No I haven't.
It's a 2017 and I have put 41,000 kms on it. Up till I noticed th4e shaking this year it has been rock solid, and my dealer has the "other" (can't remember the name of it) alignment system. Last year on a back highway in eastern Nevada, I went 1.5 miles without touching the handle bars ( it was a test of the alignment) I figured after that long it was good. Of course, they will have to do the alignment again after the new ball joints. So worst case scenario, I will get it done at Norcal in sept.

[Spyderlass]

...I am getting new front tires put on at the same time,...Aha, if you want to solve and know the cause of an issue of any kind, never make two changes or adjustments at the same time. It's impossible to know what did what.

[Spyderlass]

The play in your bars looks EXACTLY like mine. I have a '16 RT-S. I don't think you have anything to worry about.Perhaps you've got some wear too...

Look at the video closely, the bars are slack then come to a stop abruptly and there is no wheel movement at all. That is play in something rather than load-up of the steering components. Though it may be typical after a fair bit of usage.

[bcer960]

Aha, if you want to solve and know the cause of an issue of any kind, never make two changes or adjustments at the same time. It's impossible to know what did what.

I agree. However we are leaving next week for another small trip, so I don't have time to test them one at a time

[Spyderlass]

I agree. However we are leaving next week for another small trip, so I don't have time to test them one at a time:thumbup: Enjoy your trip!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Perhaps you've got some wear too...

Look at the video closely, the bars are slack then come to a stop abruptly and there is no wheel movement at all. That is play in something rather than load-up of the steering components. Though it may be typical after a fair bit of usage.
That's correct. I did some more checking today. The steering shaft has two u-joints in it. The lower u-joint which is above the DPS, the lower steering shaft, and the tie rod ends, have no movement when I move the handlebars within the play region. I took some tupperware off and one headlight out. There is no looseness between the handlebar and the top of the steering shaft. That leaves the upper u-joint as the only place where there can be play, and of course, you can't get to it or see it without taking the entire front end apart!

At this point it looks like the only place where there can be looseness is in the upper u-joint. I'm guessing it's probably in the spline connection between the upper steering shaft section and the u-joint. I'll stop by the dealer tomorrow and check out some other Spyders. If indeed the looseness is not normal I still have 6 weeks of extended warranty to pay for the fix.

[Spyderlass]

Be sure to let us know how it turns out!

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Be sure to let us know how it turns out!

Well, my RT is at the dealer's shop. The service writer called me today and said the tech tightened the pinch bolt on the lower U-joint and that took out some of the looseness. I find that hard to believe since I also tightened it some and there was no play in the lower U-joint section. Getting to the upper U-joint to see if it's loose and to tighten the pinch bolt on it, requires removing quite a bit of the front end stuff and that isn't covered under BEST.

But, he said the other option was to submit a case to BRP to replace the entire steering column, and that probably would be covered by BEST since the steering column is not considered a wear item. I said to go for it. So now we wait to hear back from BRP. In any case, it would the end of September before they can schedule the job to replace the column. Must be backlogged and short of qualified techs like so many others here have complained about. I hope they'll let me have my RT back between getting an OK and doing the work. I told him no problem waiting until then but be sure that BEST will still cover it since the warranty expires the end of August and the repair can't be done for another month after that.

[cptjam]

Bcer,
See you at NorCal! Joe

[Lew L]

Bcer,
See you at NorCal! Joe


Bcer,
See you at NorCal! Lew

[bcer960]

Bcer,
See you at NorCal! Lew

We are soo looking forward it to seeing everyone there. It seems like it has been a year since I've seen you guys.....:cheers:

[Lew L]

We are soo looking forward it to seeing everyone there. It seems like it has been a year since I've seen you guys.....:cheers:


That was a really good time we all had. This time I'll supply some Makers Mark.

Lew L

OH YAH----- to stay on topic: handlebars have just a little play when the :spyder2: isn't running and not noticeable at all when driving.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The dealer service writer called me this morning. After sitting on the case for almost three weeks BRP has agreed to replace the steering column under the BEST warranty. Now Birds of Prey needs to order the part. The replacement work is on their schedule for Sep 19.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

My Spdyer is back from the dealer! :yes: BEST warranty paid to change out the steering shaft assembly. :thumbup: That was approved only a few days before the warranty expired! Service writer said the spline connections were a bit loose. No play at all in the steering now. Haven't had a chance to ride it since I've been gone from home a lot the past few weeks. May not ride it at all any more this year. Weather has turned cold & wet and the battery is pretty much shot. Battery Bug shows only 11.7 volts and maintainer shows fully charged. I have a new battery sitting on the work bench but I want to wait until spring to fill it, charge it, and install it.