Avoid the 2019 Spyder RT?

[BryanSD]

My wife and I just got back from the 3-Wheeler Rally in Deadwood (it was our first and it was awesome). Anyway, my wife was talking to one of the vendors that advised we stay away from the 2019 but she didn't ask why and in what context. I haven't really heard of any real issues with the 2019. Since we were looking at LED options I can only guess that perhaps the 2019 wiring harness has changed that makes it difficult to connect to tap in the power for the LED. But I'm only guessing here.

Has anyone experienced or heard of issues with the 2019 that would cause an accessories vendor to recommend avoiding the 2019 Spyder? It's possible my wife misheard which is why I'm not naming the vendor.

[Grandpot]

Without any facts or proof, this is a worthless post.

[Boilermaker]

Without any facts or proof, this is a worthless post.

Why is it worthless? Maybe there are no facts or proof yet, but someone has made the OP believe there could be something different about the 2019's. I know that if you go on Spyderpops, they are asking if you have a 2019 before ordering anything for the RT, so maybe there is something to this concern.

[Grandpot]

Why is it worthless? Maybe there are no facts or proof yet, but someone has made the OP believe there could be something different about the 2019's. I know that if you go on Spyderpops, they are asking if you have a 2019 before ordering anything for the RT, so maybe there is something to this concern.

This is about somebody saying something about something somewhere. Then a post is started with a heading that suggests we avoid the 2019 model. If you are going to warn people about something, have some facts.

[BryanSD]

I'm not warning anybody about buying a 2019 nor trolling here. Somewhere down the road, I'll be looking to add a second Spyder to the family and want to know if there is an issue with the 2019 that I'm not aware of. I'm just trying to understand why the vendor may have disliked the 2019 model. I'm leaning that something has changed internally with the wiring that may require some changes with some of the LED products on the market...but there you're right I have no facts which is why I'm asking the question.

[MonPaul]

This is about somebody saying something about something somewhere. Then a post is started with a heading that suggests we avoid the 2019 model. If you are going to warn people about something, have some facts.

This sounds like someone who heard something and is trying to get to the truth. If you can't ask questions what good is this forum?

[SauronII]

I got a 2019 RT Limited last month and have put about 1600 miles on it so far. It has been working just fine for me.

[BajaRon]

This sounds like someone who heard something and is trying to get to the truth. If you can't ask questions what good is this forum?

Exactly! As long as it is an honest question and not someone trolling or trying to stir the pot (which is not the case here). I'd say Bring It On!

I have discussed this subject with Harvey Clark (SpyderPops) and Lamont (Lamonster).

First, I want to say that mine is 2nd hand information. I do not do lighting (LED or otherwise). But I have been told that for the 2019 models, BRP has made it very difficult to tap into any power leads for accessories like lighting. Difficult, but not impossible. It is my understanding that SpyderPops and others have been able to overcome these obstacles. But again, this is not my area of expertise, So to get the full story I suggest contacting SpyderPops or Lamonster.

My main reason for posting is to defend the OP and the 2019 Spyders a little bit. I don't like unfounded rumors either. And bad information is all to prevalent sometimes. So I understand the push-back on this. But the OP's 'Rumor' does have some validity to it.

There is nothing 'Wrong' with the 2019's. And there is no reason to 'Avoid them'. I think that was poor advise. But the OP isn't saying that you should avoid the 2019's. Only that he was told this. He's not trying to beat up the 2019's. He's just trying to get more information. Which is one of the primary reasons for the existence of this forum. Hence, the reason for the original question and this thread.

This kind of thing is not uncommon. BRP engineered the Ryder sway bar so that it is extremely difficult to swap out. But like the wiring loom power issues, there are always ways around engineered obstacles. That is what aftermarket is all about.

So, if you want a 2019, BUY IT! And live happily ever after!

[h0gr1der]

I will reply to this post, but understand this; Folks who have negative experiences squawk the loudest and longest.

My experience only. Bought a new 2018 RTL (same as the 2019) in April 2019. New, zero miles on it. On the ride home I noticed the fenders flapping, figured that may be normal as I had no experience with these bikes. At home, I found the coolant level low, now I'm pissed at the setup guy. Bought coolant from the local ATV shop which carries BRP products, but doesn't work on Spyders.

Took the bike back to have the tires balanced (90 miles one way) and also try to convince them to install the 20.8 firmware upgrade. Big rigmarole on the software upgrade, not the bikes fault. Rode the bike home, still shaking on the front. Read extensively on how bad Kenda tires can be (hit or miss, you can have my low mile take-offs for free if you pick them up), determined to replace with car tires. Chose Vredesteins with some outstanding assistance from folks on here.

With the fronts mounted by a car tire shop, I immediately noticed the difference. Bike runs a lot truer and less flighty, not darting as it did before. Bought a Cycle Hill tire changer to swap the rear rubber. Upon opening up the rear rim I noticed the rim and rear wheel bearings are Chinese. Can't fix the rim, but darn sure replaced the rear wheel bearings with known good units.

Rode the heck out of the bike for a while, all the while trying different belt alignment and tension settings to get rid of the belt vibrations. Couldn't find the one sweet spot I had before, so I mounted a Roadster Renovations vibration dampener and it really worked good. Also mounted the Centramatic balancer discs.

Found the bike dives and wallows, especially bad with 2-up riding. Installed Baja Ron front spring pre-load adjusters. They worked good. Looking to add the sway bar if I can get the 'roundtuit thing going.

Now, we get to the core of the issue. From April 4th to May 22nd, I worked on and rode the bike to get it whipped into a shape I'd like it to be in. The first parking brake failure warning happened at 1384 miles with just 47 days on it, my problems began. The brake released once it cooled down, and I had purchased the little fold up wheel chocks and two 12mm wrenches to carry with me (based on threads on here), so I figured I'd wait until the 3000 mile dealer service. The brake issue came up 3 times total, but released each time when the bike cooled down.

Rode the bike more, began noticing a coolant leak. In early July (88 days, 1900 miles) I took my Spyder back to the dealer to investigate a brake failure, coolant leak, and also a cold clutch surging issue. The clutch surging may be a normal attribute of the Sypder, but mine seems particularly bad especially in reverse. Having them do the 3000 mile maintenance at 1900 miles due to round trip distance.

So far, this is what I learned. Bad water pump (leak). Bad left switch pack (known issue). I'm not sure that the parking brake motor isn't bad, as it would lock up when the bike was heat soaked and release when it cooled down. I don't have BUDS2 yet, so I couldn't see all the codes they pulled, but I looked at it this way. After parking the bike hot, upon restart I would push the parking brake switch. Upon trying to drive off, the bike didn't beep at me, to my mind that signals that the computer received the command to release (good switch?), but the red dash light would start flashing, meaning the computer recognized the brake hadn't released, showing the position switch was OK. Gotta be the motor, right? They say left switch pack. Hope they're not going to leave me stranded!

BUT! I will add this. I'm working my way through the trials and tribulations of Spyder ownership. My own personal take on this is that all companies, including your favorite car brand, are trying to maximize profit at any expense, including quality control. After seeing Chinese bearings rolling in the rear of my Spyder, and reading enough stories of either failures or short change intervals on the rear wheel bearings, I became convinced that BRP had sub contracted the small parts out to the point of gaining a reputation as being unreliable. They are rated as one of the least reliable bikes by at least one of the major players in motorcycle ranking, with Consumer Reports having them at a 42% failure rating. DESPITE ALL THAT, I still like this bike a bunch and will continue to press forward with it's resurrection to reliability!

[BryanSD]

Exactly! As long as it is an honest question and not someone trolling or trying to stir the pot (which is not the case here). I'd say Bring It On!

I have discussed this subject with Harvey Clark (SpyderPops) and Lamont (Lamonster).

First, I want to say that mine is 2nd hand information. I do not do lighting (LED or otherwise). But I have been told that for the 2019 models, BRP has made it very difficult to tap into any power leads for accessories like lighting. Difficult, but not impossible. It is my understanding that SpyderPops and others have been able to overcome these obstacles. But again, this is not my area of expertise, So to get the full story I suggest contacting SpyderPops or Lamonster.

...

This kind of thing is not uncommon. BRP engineered the Ryder sway bar so that it is extremely difficult to swap out. But like the wiring loom power issues, there are always ways around engineered obstacles. That's is what aftermarket is all about.

So, if you want a 2019, BUY IT! And live happily ever after!

Thanks, this is the information I was looking for. If we do purchase a 2019, this could actually be a good excuse for me to be primary on the new Spyder and let my LED and accessory loving wife to be the primary rider on our 2017. Just don't tell my wife there is a workaround for the 2019. My wife's interest in the Spyder went up a couple notches at the Deadwood Rally when she met the vendors and saw she could customize a Spyder to her liking. Just don't tell my wife there are always workarounds for the 2019.

[Grandpot]

I over reacted. My apologies.

[BajaRon]

I over reacted. My apologies.

I don't see it as a real problem. We all need reminders at times. Certainly myself included! It's all good at the end of the day.

I also owned a 1998 Valkyrie. One of the best rides I ever owned. Awesome machine!

174028

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Just a S.W.A.G. on this topic ….. What the vendor might have been referring to was a carry over from the 2018 model …. The instrument panel is quite different from all the previous ones …. and more to the point beginning in 2018 … it functions very differently from the previous years …. this all has to do with the connectivity of the new panel …. jmho ….. Mike :ohyea:

[ARtraveler]

A good question by the OP, and we are now getting bits and pieces of information that can be helpful to potential buyers of the 2019.

[BryanSD]

I over reacted. My apologies.

Apology accepted and think nothing more of it. I understand your initial reaction. We all have seen plenty of posts with hidden agendas and investing time in a reply to only realize we've been trolled. I knew when I posted that I may have to follow up with an assurance that my interest in an answer to my question was legitimate. All is good.

[Chupaca]

See how the site works..... a bit bumpy but in the end you have gotten some information as to perhaps why the comment was made. Glad you asked and the folks here dug into it and got you some answers. :thumbup:

[Boilermaker]

I over reacted. My apologies.

:thumbup:

[kissfan]

I purchased a new 2019 RL-L back in May. I'm up to 800 miles on the odometer and the only issues are the known BRP Connect problems. Nothing mechanical/electrical/computer has cropped up to date. *knock knock*

Subscribing to this thread and will update if I encounter any issues.

[billybovine]

Most of the wiring changes happened from the 2017 models to the 2018. This goes for both F3 and RT. The only big change from 2018 to 2019 is that the front turn signal lights have moved from the mirrors to the fenders. So any accessories that connect to the turn signals circuit in the mirrors will no longer work. So vendors will just have adjust. They then need to make products that will work with the change. This does not mean you should avoid a 2019.

[south GA Farm Boy]

Yes, the control modules are a serious problem on the 2018 year models! My F3 Limited is 9 months old, and the control module on the left handlebar has been replaced twice, and the right side once! This is my third Spyder ( 2013 RTL, 2016 RTL, and 2018 F3L) and I am thankful to have a good dealer who seems to care about my Spyder! I have noted on here several times asking BRP to wake up and get a differ supplies for these modules, like the concern for the China bearing! I don't like riding a bike that is 10th in reliability, but BRP doesn't seem to be listening! I love my Spyder, and most all new bikes have problems, but at the price we pay, BRP should be listening! I support this forum very much and appreciate all the comments good and bad!






I will reply to this post, but understand this; Folks who have negative experiences squawk the loudest and longest.

My experience only. Bought a new 2018 RTL (same as the 2019) in April 2019. New, zero miles on it. On the ride home I noticed the fenders flapping, figured that may be normal as I had no experience with these bikes. At home, I found the coolant level low, now I'm pissed at the setup guy. Bought coolant from the local ATV shop which carries BRP products, but doesn't work on Spyders.

Took the bike back to have the tires balanced (90 miles one way) and also try to convince them to install the 20.8 firmware upgrade. Big rigmarole on the software upgrade, not the bikes fault. Rode the bike home, still shaking on the front. Read extensively on how bad Kenda tires can be (hit or miss, you can have my low mile take-offs for free if you pick them up), determined to replace with car tires. Chose Vredesteins with some outstanding assistance from folks on here.

With the fronts mounted by a car tire shop, I immediately noticed the difference. Bike runs a lot truer and less flighty, not darting as it did before. Bought a Cycle Hill tire changer to swap the rear rubber. Upon opening up the rear rim I noticed the rim and rear wheel bearings are Chinese. Can't fix the rim, but darn sure replaced the rear wheel bearings with known good units.

Rode the heck out of the bike for a while, all the while trying different belt alignment and tension settings to get rid of the belt vibrations. Couldn't find the one sweet spot I had before, so I mounted a Roadster Renovations vibration dampener and it really worked good. Also mounted the Centramatic balancer discs.

Found the bike dives and wallows, especially bad with 2-up riding. Installed Baja Ron front spring pre-load adjusters. They worked good. Looking to add the sway bar if I can get the 'roundtuit thing going.

Now, we get to the core of the issue. From April 4th to May 22nd, I worked on and rode the bike to get it whipped into a shape I'd like it to be in. The first parking brake failure warning happened at 1384 miles with just 47 days on it, my problems began. The brake released once it cooled down, and I had purchased the little fold up wheel chocks and two 12mm wrenches to carry with me (based on threads on here), so I figured I'd wait until the 3000 mile dealer service. The brake issue came up 3 times total, but released each time when the bike cooled down.

Rode the bike more, began noticing a coolant leak. In early July (88 days, 1900 miles) I took my Spyder back to the dealer to investigate a brake failure, coolant leak, and also a cold clutch surging issue. The clutch surging may be a normal attribute of the Sypder, but mine seems particularly bad especially in reverse. Having them do the 3000 mile maintenance at 1900 miles due to round trip distance.

So far, this is what I learned. Bad water pump (leak). Bad left switch pack (known issue). I'm not sure that the parking brake motor isn't bad, as it would lock up when the bike was heat soaked and release when it cooled down. I don't have BUDS2 yet, so I couldn't see all the codes they pulled, but I looked at it this way. After parking the bike hot, upon restart I would push the parking brake switch. Upon trying to drive off, the bike didn't beep at me, to my mind that signals that the computer received the command to release (good switch?), but the red dash light would start flashing, meaning the computer recognized the brake hadn't released, showing the position switch was OK. Gotta be the motor, right? They say left switch pack. Hope they're not going to leave me stranded!

BUT! I will add this. I'm working my way through the trials and tribulations of Spyder ownership. My own personal take on this is that all companies, including your favorite car brand, are trying to maximize profit at any expense, including quality control. After seeing Chinese bearings rolling in the rear of my Spyder, and reading enough stories of either failures or short change intervals on the rear wheel bearings, I became convinced that BRP had sub contracted the small parts out to the point of gaining a reputation as being unreliable. They are rated as one of the least reliable bikes by at least one of the major players in motorcycle ranking, with Consumer Reports having them at a 42% failure rating. DESPITE ALL THAT, I still like this bike a bunch and will continue to press forward with it's resurrection to reliability!

[bscrive]

The front fender reflectors have changed as well in 2019. They are smaller and are angled on the back of the yellow side reflector. The back of the front fender is just reflective tape instead of a real reflector.
I know that when I put on turn signal indicators on my wife's 2019 F3L, the signals went into hyperflash. The usual fix did not work and I had to bring the bike to the dealer to fix it on the Buds computer.

[CJ.RamMan]

Yes, the control modules are a serious problem on the 2018 year models! My F3 Limited is 9 months old, and the control module on the left handlebar has been replaced twice, and the right side once! This is my third Spyder ( 2013 RTL, 2016 RTL, and 2018 F3L) and I am thankful to have a good dealer who seems to care about my Spyder! I have noted on here several times asking BRP to wake up and get a differ supplies for these modules, like the concern for the China bearing! I don't like riding a bike that is 10th in reliability, but BRP doesn't seem to be listening! I love my Spyder, and most all new bikes have problems, but at the price we pay, BRP should be listening! I support this forum very much and appreciate all the comments good and bad!


I figured I would weigh in on this subject a bit as I work for a Tier 1 supplier for an automotive OEM. While I am glad you pointed the finger at the supplier for a part that may not function correctly it still isn't easy for the OEM, BRP in this case, to just switch suppliers. Typically the tier 1 suppliers assemble their product from pieces provided by tier 2, 3, etc suppliers. The first obstacle in switching suppliers is that the new supplier may be assembling the same parts so the exact same issue may still be present. Finding a supplier not in the current stream will add additional costs. The new suppliers need to develop the tools and process for manufacture and assembly of the parts. This can easily add tens of thousands of dollars, or more, which ends up being the consumers price to bear in the end. Likely what is happening at this point is BRP back charges the supplier for each repair BRP has to make as punishment for the bad part. Of course this charge will be handed down to the guilty supplier in the end, and hopefully encourages that supplier to do better or sometimes forces them out of business.

[P.W.]

So far our 19 has adjusted to my mods. without any problems......Knock on wood.

[Spyder Insyder]

Shawn Smoak, one of the most knowledgeable Spyder techs, strongly cautions against installing accessory lighting of unknown quality by tapping into the can-bus system. In his vlog videos he has shared his experience with Spyders throwing random trouble codes resulting in limp-home mode due to problems with accessory lighting of dubious quality.

[stmike 1800]

Yes i read this also ,he works on these bikes and sees first hand the problems and shares with us .thanks Shawn .

My 2018 has 14000 km and not one problem ,other than trying to figure out the dash .
I do not like the wallowing in corners and uneven pavement ,sometimes can be hard on the heart .

[BajaRon]

Just a S.W.A.G. on this topic ….. What the vendor might have been referring to was a carry over from the 2018 model …. The instrument panel is quite different from all the previous ones …. and more to the point beginning in 2018 … it functions very differently from the previous years …. this all has to do with the connectivity of the new panel …. jmho ….. Mike :ohyea:

I think you might be on to something here. That was a definite defect as opposed to engineering of the later model Spyders which makes it difficult to splice into power for aftermarket ad-on's.

Interesting! We have a lot of room to speculate on this one. But good information.

[Flamewinger]

I remember Wrap My Spyder asking if they noticed the different in the front fenders. They're shaped a little different. Also, any electrical accessories should be wired separately to the bike's system.

174033 174034

My 2018 fenders

174036 174037

[BryanSD]

Shawn Smoak, one of the most knowledgeable Spyder techs, strongly cautions against installing accessory lighting of unknown quality by tapping into the can-bus system. In his vlog videos he has shared his experience with Spyders throwing random trouble codes resulting in limp-home mode due to problems with accessory lighting of dubious quality.

Yep, I'm a big fan and dedicated watcher of Shawn Smoak's videos. My impression is that much of Shawn's objection to LED lights has to do with the "dubious quality" you mention as well as dubious workmanship for how those lights are connected (such as splicing into the wires). It's the cheap knockoffs that has him worried and frustrated. I'm pretty comfortable with level of quality LED products that Lamonster Garage (http://www.lamonstergarage.com/lighting-2/), SPYDERPOPS, and other sponsors of this site offer where their products are plug/play where no cutting wires, pinching wires or soldering is required (as long as they're doing the installs and not me). Anyone disagree?

[Flamewinger]

I made my own front fender lights and they get power from the front white light. My rear lights are Tric LED and are plug n play. No problems. I have XK Glow from LaMonster and they get power from a Neutrino Black Box. (fuse box). Which also powers my Denalli spot lights and USB power outlet.

[eddieshep999]

Just a thought maybe there is a major revamp on the 2020 Spyder models and with only 2 months to go to BRP Launch of new models or changes to existing ones it may be better to hold off buying a 2019 model
I know a few people purchased a 998cc model only to find out a month or so later the 1330cc was launched
No doubt rumours of possible changes will surface on here shortly

[bikerbillone]

I'm not warning anybody about buying a 2019 nor trolling here. Somewhere down the road, I'll be looking to add a second Spyder to the family and want to know if there is an issue with the 2019 that I'm not aware of. I'm just trying to understand why the vendor may have disliked the 2019 model. I'm leaning that something has changed internally with the wiring that may require some changes with some of the LED products on the market...but there you're right I have no facts which is why I'm asking the question.

Right, if the OP had the facts he would not be posting the question. Some good information had I read further. Anxious to see info the 2020, maybe something interesting going on.

[SilverSurfer]

To the original question, the 2019 RT isn't something to "stay away from." It's internals, essentially are the same as all the great RTs since 2014 with the 1330 ROTAX ACE, Brembo Brakes and all the other improvements that came as of 2014 and beyond. On a less sanguine note, as of 2018, BRP began to (IHMO) dumb the bike down, most notably by the replacement of its beautiful analog guage pack and Garmin 590 GPS mount with a digital instrument cluster, which incorporates gps through a service called BRP Connect which one must manage through one's smart phone. As most experienced with the riding / GPS experience knows, we 'tourers' like to load pre-designed gpx files onto our GPS systems. It was easy when we were just dealing with a good ol' Garmin 660- or 590-series unit component-mounted to the Spyder. Since 2018, the way the new Can-Am/BRP-Connect thing works is you load your pre-designed gpx files up onto a cloud app called "Revver," or design your rydes in Revver) and then use them through your cell phone blue-toothed to the instruments. You also need access to another app, "Genius Maps," for which a subscription is $50.00, and the maps themselves are $2.99. This means two things: You cannot manage pre-planned routes without BRP connect and its associate apps for route planning and maps. You can forego all that and pay your tech to physically mount a powered GPS mount where one used to be on the Pre-2018 models, upon which you could mount a Garmin. So there you are installing a component that was removed for reasons I cannot imagine except to make the bike cheaper and to stimulate revenue through BRP connect. Second, beyond the rocket science, if you use GPS through BRP-Connect, are out in the middle of nowhere and lose phone provider service, so then goes whatever your doing with BRP Connect. If I were looking for an additional Spyder, I am seeing some beautiful, low-mileage 2015-17 Spyder RT-S's and Limiteds (with analog guages and a good-ole integrated GPS mount). I mean ... so there you are bragging about your Spyder to a Goldwing or Harley rider and you look at their faces go from just ghostly to a whiter shade of pale when you explain how a significant component of your ryde depends on a smart phone app. Beginning with the 2019 as well, BRP further cheapened the bike by removing hardware based reflectors on fenders and replacing them with reflective stickers. They redesigned the fenders to eliminate previous avenues to mount and run wires for after market fender lighting. I don't think a 2019 is something to avoid, but I would certainly consider a good pre-owned 2016-17 first because they're simply better quality overall ... not just internals but externals as well.

[Baron14y]

I took my certification course on a 2018 with a digital gauge. Did not like the gauge one bit. Found a 2015 that has been fantastic. Love the old gauge setup. No electrical problems. No other problems (so far). Over 17,000 miles. Glad I took the course in a 2018 to find out what I didn't like.:thumbup:

[SuperG]

Erm... I'm just gonna point out here that Genius Maps does *not* require phone service, and GPS is not dependant on it. It uses the *same* mapping data provider as Garmin...