Question about accuracy of shop manuals

[frj322]

Hi folks,
Wondering whether it would be worth investing in a service manual for my F3S (2018) and, if so, where to get it.
A little background of my current issue.... I've got about 4,200 miles on the bike now and yes, it is under warranty. I've developed the beginning of a brake vibration at high speeds (75 MPH). I have a very extensive technical background, service 25 years and now instructor and I know the theories behind brake vibrations and how they develop. What I'm afraid of is when I get to the dealer I'll get "brakes aren't covered" or, if I'm lucky, a new set of front rotors (vibration is in the bars) and the vibration will return in another 4,000 miles or so. If you've been down this road you know the root cause is excessive lateral runout on the hubs. I want to check the hubs with a dial indicator and discuss this with the dealer so the concern can be corrected RIGHT the first time. Do the service manuals go into this much detail as far as runout specs etc?
Has anyone experienced this issue before?
As always, thanks for any help you can offer...

Frank

[Entropy]

Hi folks,
Wondering whether it would be worth investing in a service manual for my F3S (2018) and, if so, where to get it.
A little background of my current issue.... I've got about 4,200 miles on the bike now and yes, it is under warranty. I've developed the beginning of a brake vibration at high speeds (75 MPH). I have a very extensive technical background, service 25 years and now instructor and I know the theories behind brake vibrations and how they develop. What I'm afraid of is when I get to the dealer I'll get "brakes aren't covered" or, if I'm lucky, a new set of front rotors (vibration is in the bars) and the vibration will return in another 4,000 miles or so. If you've been down this road you know the root cause is excessive lateral runout on the hubs. I want to check the hubs with a dial indicator and discuss this with the dealer so the concern can be corrected RIGHT the first time. Do the service manuals go into this much detail as far as runout specs etc?
Has anyone experienced this issue before?
As always, thanks for any help you can offer...

Frank

Howdy.

1. They ain't perfect.

2. You can get one online, on ebay or at yer dealer. Perhpas ask yer dealer if ye can peek at one to see if it's worth it - for you.

3. I'll check mine fer brake info. May not be promising.

4. Several posts on this exact runout concern - search function perhaps ....

Cheers
E

[pegasus1300]

If your vibration is caused by brake rotors then give the dealer a chance to warrantee the parts. If they wont or BRP declines when a case is opened with then go to BajaRon (a sponsor here }and buy a set of EBC rotors and pads. They are so much better then OEM you will be amazed.

[Spyderlass]

Yes, I've corrected this issue on two RT's. The official manual gives no runout specification for the hub flanges it only gives a brake disc runout and there are anomalies in the manuals for different years. I believe it's 4 thou (0.004") and this is a very common brake disc runout on many vehicles. The manual does not state at what radius the runout should be measured but, because of the holes in the disc, it's very tricky to measure it anywhere but near the edge.

You need to put a dial test indicator on your hubs to check them. But if your Spyder uses studs in the flange they may be in the way of the DTI. (I say that last sentence because I've only done this on an RT and am not familiar with your bike.) Again on the RT, the radius at the hub is approximately 1/4 of the disc radius so since the maximum runout at the disc is 4 thou you should have a maximum of 1thou at the hub and that's without allowing any manufacturing error for the disc. The hub's flanges need to be very accurately aligned (90°) with the bearing mounting surfaces.

Be sure to come back and let us know how you get on with it.

[canamjhb]

I think one of your biggest hurdles is finding a technician who knows and understands the issue. If you are successful with that then having an advocate to help you deal with BRP and warranty can work well to your advantage. Good luck..... Jim

[ARtraveler]

If the SHOP manuals are anything like the OWNERS manuals that come with the Spyders, they are not going to be perfect.

A lot of the second and third generation manuals came with copy/paste errors, as well as wrong information in various places.

The problem as I see it, is in the proof reading. The SL site has been a good place for discussion on the subject. A few glitches got worked out amongst the members here.

[JayBros]

Since your Spyder is under warranty let the dealer try to solve the problem. If they give you any gas about rotors not being a warranty item ask them to open a case with BRP. As far as the amount of run out is concerned it is probably best measured at the outer edge because that's where the calipers are mounted and where the pads grip the rotors.

Pegasus is right on about the EBC rotors and fully sintered pads but let the dealer try to solve the problem first; that's what you paid a lot of shekels for.

[jcthorne]

Be sure its the rotors and not failing crap Kenda tires causing the vibrations. Have seen this over and over.

[Smokes]

Downloadable service manuals for all models of Spyder plus Ryker (apart from 2019 Spyders) available here: https://canammanuals.com/can-am-spyder-manual.htm

Not free but what I consider a reasonable price.

[Rattlebars]

If the SHOP manuals are anything like the OWNERS manuals that come with the Spyders, they are not going to be perfect.

A lot of the second and third generation manuals came with copy/paste errors, as well as wrong information in various places.

The problem as I see it, is in the proof reading. The SL site has been a good place for discussion on the subject. A few glitches got worked out amongst the members here.

Even the Real shop manual is junk anyway. Worst I've ever owned. If it was warped or uneven rotors, your vibes should be more exaggerated when braking. You didn't say if that was the case. You may be feeling the dreaded belt vibration which can be ameliorated (but not eliminated) by installation of an idler arm.

Here's a West Virgina (or maybe Canadian) dial indicator.

173615

[frj322]

Hey folks...
Sorry for the delayed update. Thanks for all the replies. To all those who asked. Yes, the vibration is only when braking therefore can't be a tire issue. It's just in the beginning stages so I'm going to wait for it to worsen and give the dealership a shot at correcting when the weather turns cooler.

[Rattlebars]

Hey folks...
Sorry for the delayed update. Thanks for all the replies. To all those who asked. Yes, the vibration is only when braking therefore can't be a tire issue. It's just in the beginning stages so I'm going to wait for it to worsen and give the dealership a shot at correcting when the weather turns cooler.

:thumbup:

[Spyderlass]

Hey folks...
Sorry for the delayed update. Thanks for all the replies. To all those who asked. Yes, the vibration is only when braking therefore can't be a tire issue. It's just in the beginning stages so I'm going to wait for it to worsen and give the dealership a shot at correcting when the weather turns cooler. Probably not a good plan. If your brake rotors are wearing unevenly they will get worse and may pass being usable. You may end up in a fight trying to get them replaced under warranty.