Centramatic Rear Balancer Question

[h0gr1der]

Ok, so I installed the rear Centramatic balancer ring while I was playing the never ending rear wheel bearing fiasco. Here's a few facts pertinent to the installation.

The balancer material is .034" (.8636mm) thick.
On a 2018 the clearance requirement for the Rear Speed Sensor Hall Switch to Speed Sensor Ring is .051" (1.2954mm) minimum to .075" (1.905mm) maximum.
My original clearance as measured by feeler gauge was .064" (1.6256mm).
With the added .034" (.8636mm) balancer ring material, my switch clearance decreased below the minimum to .030" (.762mm). The whole brake disc and sensor ring were displaced outboard by .034" (.8636mm)

So, with all that being said, I had 2 options to rectify the situation.

Shim the Speed Sensor Hall Switch out ±.034" (.8636mm) to reestablish the correct clearance and eat the loss at the caliper. (The path I chose).
Shim the whole brake caliper out using shim washers to equal .034" (.8636mm) between the caliper bracket and caliper.


Anyone who had done this install, how did you handle the clearances?

As an aside, my bike rides smoother.

[trikermutha]

How are you mounting it. Outside or behind the sensor plate?? I guess I dont see how it will affect your sensor?

[AeroPilot]

Since the centraMatic disk is behind the disk and sensor ring, its relation to the caliper arm and the sensor which is mounted on the arm is still Okay... It just moves the wheel to the left slightly in the swingarm as I see it... There is room in the swingarm for this slight add of the centramatic plate. I Have been running the disk for the last 10,000 miles and dont notice any brake pad wear difference and the sensor has been fine as far as Nanny goes... Maybe I just got lucky.

I do try to not change the rear axle torque and don't overdo it.. witha film of wheel bearing grease on the swingarm plates and washer, I usually go light on the torque at around 140-150 ftlb..

[h0gr1der]

To mount the Centramatic you have to remove the brake disc and the speed sensor ring from the rim. They are bolted together as a unit, when you remove the brake disc the Speed Sensor Ring comes with it. The Centramatic goes behind them, which spaces the disc and sensor ring to the right by .034". This does not change the position of the rim on the axle as none of the axle spacers are involved. If you installed a Centramatic on the rear, and did not check the Speed Sensor to Speed Sensor Wheel clearance with a feeler gauge, then you probably should do that. Make sure you use your specific Spyder specifications as it may differ from mine. One thing I forgot to mention is the shim to space the Speed Sensor Hall Switch is P.N. 710002023. I don't know the thickness, but you probably need 3-4 to make up the .034" difference.

[h0gr1der]

To be more specific, the Speed Sensor Hall Switch is mounted to the caliper bracket, which doesn't get moved by the Centramatic installation. The caliper floats on it's mounting pins and absorbs the .034" offset. This moves the sensor ring closer to the sensor.

[Purple Guy]

I mounted mine without any extra shims or spacers.
I've put on at least 30,000 mi and and a tire change since I installed it with zero problems...

[trikermutha]

:banghead: Now I realize its the rear :banghead: :roflblack:

[h0gr1der]

:banghead: Now I realize its the rear :banghead: :roflblack:

Just caught that!:clap: Yeah, the fronts are easy!

The reason I am so anal about the recommended specifications are the threads where something bad happened, and there is no good explanation. Referring to the thread labeled "Frightening", and a few more references to such happenings. One other guy said he was quitting Spyders over it, but I was too new to know how to subscribe to threads to not lose them.

These Hall switches are part of the Nanny safety system. I've had experience with them in the industry I was in, and if set far enough outside of specs they would all of a sudden go flaky when they got a little age on them.

I'll stick with the recommended clearance on these and not trust to luck.

[AeroPilot]

"This moves the sensor ring closer to the sensor. " It will also move the sensor ring with relation to the sensor ifyou swapped spacers or bearings and then ...you are right It would be good to check the clearances, Pre & Post centramatic install, but I doubt Lamonster would put out the product without specific check recommendation if it changed the braking/Nanny response.

I rethought this and thanks hOgrider for the specs for your 2018. Now I'll have to check the specs for my 2015 and order some shims.. Thanks

To get down to brass tacks, I'll have to check the clearance after torquing the axle as that can also slightly change the clearance.

[h0gr1der]

"This moves the sensor ring closer to the sensor. " It shouldn't move the sensor ring with relation to the sensor unless you swapped spacers or bearings and then it might...you are right It would be good to check the clearances, Pre & Post centramatic install, but I doubt Lamonster would put out the product without specific check recommendation if it changed the braking/Nanny response. JMHO.

Mr. Aeropilot,
I don't mean to seem disagreeable, but I just did this installation. I pulled the measurements, and they did change. The wheel position did not change. The bearing spacers (including the brake caliper bracket, which is part of the axle spacer pieces) did not change. The only change was there was a .034" shim (Centramatic) put behind the brake disc and sensor ring. The actual speed sensor penetrates and is mounted directly to the caliper bracket (which did not move), hence the gap closed from .064" to .030", which is .021" below the minimum specification of .051". I pulled the wrenches and ran the feeler gauges to verify my clearances.

[AeroPilot]

Thanks hOgr1der and I did edit my previous post as after rethinking it and measuring my sensor clearance, I agree with you. My current clearance from sensor to toothed ring is .96 mm and I will need to research the specs for my 2016. I appreciate your attention to detail and especially the numbers and data contained in your posts as they allow others to learn and compare to their experience.

Thank you and my apologies.

[h0gr1der]

Mr. Aeropilot,

I'm in a steep learning curve with the Spyder myself. I've had it in my possession for about a month and a half, put 1350 miles on it, removed the rear wheel about 3 times, aligned the belt about half a dozen times experimenting with belt tension, mounted my rear tire manually with a machine I just bought, installed BajaRon Preload Adjusters, Doc Humphrey's vibration dampener, new American made rear wheel bearings, now these Centramatic balancers, and many more things yet to come,. I try to document what I find so the next newb like me may have a better chance of understanding.

If your spec is the same as mine, I think some shims P.N. 710002023 from Cheapercycleparts are in order. https://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts/p/can_am/710002023/shim

I wonder how many other Centramatic installations are running around with the sensors out of spec? Even if the sensor was at the maximum spec of .075" and you took out the .034" it would still be under spec at .041".

[h0gr1der]

Update on Shims

Ordered some shims P.N. 710002023. They are .010" (.254mm) each. If the Centramatic thickness is .034" (.8636mm), it will take 3 of these to get back to where you started before the rear wheel installation. You will lose only .004" (.1016mm), and unless you were very close to the minimum spec this should fix it up.

This is not to advise you to shim your sensor, just making you aware of what's available. If yours is working for you, I probably wouldn't touch it.

[dondje]

So has anyone had any issues that point to the rear Centramatic balancer ring being installed without shimming?

Regards,

Don

[billybovine]

Where there no extra shims on the bolt already? My 09 had extra shims. Just needed to move them to get the correct gap. It even came with a gap checking tool. Don't think I ever had to remove the one on my 2013. So don't know if it had any extra. It did not come with a gap checking tool either.

[h0gr1der]

Feeler gauges. I haven't heard of anyone having problems, just throwing the information out there for folks to ponder. I'm all shimmed back to .060" (1.524mm) from the original .064" (1.6256mm). Took 3 shims.

[TerryTheSpyderRyder]

Mr. Aeropilot,

I'm in a steep learning curve with the Spyder myself. I've had it in my possession for about a month and a half, put 1350 miles on it, removed the rear wheel about 3 times, aligned the belt about half a dozen times experimenting with belt tension, mounted my rear tire manually with a machine I just bought, installed BajaRon Preload Adjusters, Doc Humphrey's vibration dampener, new American made rear wheel bearings, now these Centramatic balancers, and many more things yet to come,. I try to document what I find so the next newb like me may have a better chance of understanding.

If your spec is the same as mine, I think some shims P.N. 710002023 from Cheapercycleparts are in order. https://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oemparts/p/can_am/710002023/shim

I wonder how many other Centramatic installations are running around with the sensors out of spec? Even if the sensor was at the maximum spec of .075" and you took out the .034" it would still be under spec at .041".

Do you have to somehow disable the parking brake first to remove the rear wheel? My shop manual doesn't say. I have an F3-S that needs one of the belt adjusters which broke, so I need to remove at least the axle to replace it.

[trikermutha]

Yes the parking brake has to be off

[h0gr1der]

Do you have to somehow disable the parking brake first to remove the rear wheel? My shop manual doesn't say. I have an F3-S that needs one of the belt adjusters which broke, so I need to remove at least the axle to replace it.

Mr. TerryTheSpyderRyder,

I can only speak as to the RTL as it is what I own. To just pull the axle I would park the bike in a garage or shop and kill it without setting the parking brake. It will beep for a few seconds. Chock the front wheels.

On the RTL the brake caliper and speed sensor are in close proximity to the axle nut, so I remove them so as not to damage anything. I remove the 2 mounting bolts and hang the caliper from thee muffler with a bungee. Not sure how clearance is on the F3S, so take a look there.

Brake the axle bolt and remove the nut and washer from the right. Position your jack to the rear and lift just enough to slide the axle out. The tire won't come off the ground. No need to remove anything else. Once the axle is out you should be able to slip the adjuster out to the rear and replace. If the right adjuster is broke, leave the axle through the left side, just pull out enough to remove the adjuster. It will make reassembly easier.

If you put any never seize or grease on the axle threads (or any threads for that matter) reduce your torque by the appropriate amount, usually 25-30% or as recommended by the lubricant manufacturer.

Reassemble in reverse and align/set tension per specs.