Cooling Fan Manual Override Switch

[rleathen]

Well as I indicated in a previous post I intended to install a manual override switch for the cooling fan. Well this morning I finished the mod. Basically what I did was take a 12 volt source through a fuse (15A) and switch (25 amp rated) to the 12 volt power line to the cooling fan AFTER the fan relay.

I installed my fan switch in the dash and connected my fused and switch power line to the fan power line via a posi-tap connector. prior to actually making the connection and based on previous postings about mixed up BRP wiring I verified that the fan wire I was going to tap into was actually the power side and not the ground side. All wiring was placed within wire protectors and all ends were soldered and heat shrink wrapped.

After the installation I ran a 2 part test to verify proper operation. I started the bike and immediately and successfully turned the fan on with my new override switch. I then shut the fan off and let the bike warm up until the computer switched the fan on. With the fan running by way of the control signal from the computer and then turned my fan override switch on. The fan kept running and there were no complaints from the computer.

Attached you will find various pictures of the process. I apologize for the quality of the picture showing where the posi-tap is connected.

[ataDude]

Good job! Neat installation. Love those Posi-Taps and Locks! :thumbup:
.

[Firefly]

Nice job - makes it very simple. I was worried about any isolation problems or loop-back problems, but it sounds like keeping it simple worked well in this instance.

So it IS the positive that is switched - good thing to know.

Any tests to see if you're running cooler with it on?

[rleathen]

I did do one further test. I started the bike up and turned the fan on. I let the bike idle until I reached 5 bars when the fan would normally turn on. I will tell you it took a heck of a long time before I reached 5 bars. I will be taking it for a longer ride later this week during which time I will "play" with it for a bit. My original plan was to turn the fan on when I hit 4 bars and I was in stop and go traffic to perhaps delay when the computer would turn the fan on or at the very least slow down the "quick" heating as a result of not moving much. I am not sure I really want to use it at 4 bars all the time. Like some I believe that the Rotax works much better hot. So in essence my reasons for installing the override switch was not to allow it to run cooler but to delay and hopefully eliminate the nasty Limp mode if and when it does overheat.

[rleathen]

A couple of days riding with the mod and not one complaint from the computer. The bike does obviously run cooler with the fan running. Still trying to find a good balance between when to let the bike run hotter and when to turn the fan on manually. Unfortunately I have not had the luxury of riding in stop and go traffic in the extreme heat...it has been raining off and on for the last few days !

[Big Arm]

:congrats: Nice job :2thumbs:

[igor]

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown: nice job :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[SpyderGirl]

AWESOME!! I was thinking of doing the same thing... now you've eliminated the guess work! Nice DIY! :firstplace:

[NancysToy]

A couple of days riding with the mod and not one complaint from the computer. The bike does obviously run cooler with the fan running. Still trying to find a good balance between when to let the bike run hotter and when to turn the fan on manually. Unfortunately I have not had the luxury of riding in stop and go traffic in the extreme heat...it has been raining off and on for the last few days !
My thought is that a temperature sensor (preferably adjustable) and a relay would be easier to deal with than a manual switch. I can see how it would be quite difficult to know when to manually turn on the fan switch before you got hot. In stop and go I would just switch it on and let the thermostat control the temp, I think. Of course the easiest thing would be for BRP to make the thing adjustable or just lower the operating temperature, through a BUDS update. Wishful thinking........
-Scotty http://www.pmdawnonline.com/forum/images/smilies/velo.gif

[Firefly]

Anyone see a problem just leaving the fan on all the time? I doubt you could cool things down too much with that fan.

[rleathen]

Well had a chance to take the bike out for quite a long ride and played with the fan override switch. It works like a charm in keeping the bike at about 4 bars in stop and go traffic. I would not suggest keeping the fan running all the time, not because of some technical reason but more of a personal comfort reason. Leaving the fan on all the time will cause warm air from the radiator to be blown on your right foot ALL THE TIME and not just when the computer would normally turn the fan on.

Other then this minor issue I think this mod is a keeper !!!

[WaltH]

I just did the same thing as "rleathen", except that I soldered the connection at the fan without disturbing the OEM wire.

I had previously planned on doing something like this on Spyder #1, but I didn't get it done before the fire. Now Spyder #2 benefits from this thread and the many contributions to my previous thread on this subject and all of the thinking which has preceded what in the end was a very simple job.

I intend to use my fan switch only very rarely. It will be used in heavy traffic where I am moving very slowly, and in stop and go situations. It will not be used in normal traffic situations either on the highway, or in town.

I have not used the fan switch yet, but there is something comforting about knowing I can use it. The downside is the fan blows serious hot air on my leg.

[krb1945]

over temp yesterday afternoon at 6:30 pm here in Florida. Ambient temperature was 91 and humidity 90 percent... I had to relearn the breast stroke just to be outside around here the air is so wet. I was adjusting the drive belt with short rides after each tweak. I zipped about a mile up the road and stopped to check the belt alignment. Took all of 45 seconds to check sliding back on the seat. Belt ok... slide forward on the seat... temperature not ok... Temp gauge all bars lit up... limp mode en-gauged.:gaah: I checked the fuse, made sure fan relay in tight and looked at coolant reservior. All were normal... oh also checked to make sure the coolant tank cap was on tight. Everything as it should be except for the temp gauge still all bars lit.

Just pulled the relay for testing. Will know more in a few minutes.

[Magic Man]

over temp yesterday afternoon at 6:30 pm here in Florida. Ambient temperature was 91 and humidity 90 percent... I had to relearn the breast stroke just to be outside around here the air is so wet. I was adjusting the drive belt with short rides after each tweak. I zipped about a mile up the road and stopped to check the belt alignment. Took all of 45 seconds to check sliding back on the seat. Belt ok... slide forward on the seat... temperature not ok... Temp gauge all bars lit up... limp mode en-gauged.:gaah: I checked the fuse, made sure fan relay in tight and looked at coolant reservior. All were normal... oh also checked to make sure the coolant tank cap was on tight. Everything as it should be except for the temp gauge still all bars lit.

Just pulled the relay for testing. Will know more in a few minutes.

At that temp fan should have been full on, was it? :dontknow:

If not, and more than five bars were lit my bet is on a bad relay.:thumbup:

MM

MM

[krb1945]

Here it is 4:54 am and I'm doing test on this :cus: spyder. A bad relay at just 2250 miles. BRP must have gotten a big batch of defective relays during 08 building year.

I have a duralast as a spare but I would like to have the R3110... better and more durable. But here in the Keystone Heights are they are real proud of them. $30.00 for this $9.00 relay.

Well off to do some hunting on the net.

Folks... have a super morning!:thumbup:

[bjt]

At that temp fan should have been full on, was it? :dontknow:

If not, and more than five bars were lit my bet is on a bad relay.:thumbup:

MM

MM

+1

[wolfshead1]

Is there room for a marine bilge blower?That is an idea I saw somewhere.$22 cylinder with a lot of force.It could be ducted away from body parts and make a big diff.What do you think?

[Questions]

:clap: I think I will try the fan Switch mod, sounds good to me!

[rleathen]

I have had zero problems with it since I installed it !! Go for it for that added piece of mind !

[boborgera]

Just wondering, Will the fan running constantly at low rpm's pull too much juice from the battery? The Spyder has an magneto not an alternator. The engine has to run at a set temp. That's the job of the thermostat. If its over heating some thing else is going on.

[rleathen]

Just wondering, Will the fan running constantly at low rpm's pull too much juice from the battery? The Spyder has an magneto not an alternator. The engine has to run at a set temp. That's the job of the thermostat. If its over heating some thing else is going on.


I have a Kuryakyn LED battery gauge on my bike and have never seen it drop below 12 volts when the bike has been idling, the fan running AND my aftermarket driving lights on.

[boborgera]

I have a Kuryakyn LED battery gauge on my bike and have never seen it drop below 12 volts when the bike has been idling, the fan running AND my aftermarket driving lights on.

At 12 volts the battery is not taken a charge, At ilde with my fog light's on [55w.] 13.40v= fog light's off at ilde 13.90v. Some times when the Spyder's battery is momentary low funny things will happen with the on board computer. Just my finding's, it's not gospel.

[bjt]

Just wondering, Will the fan running constantly at low rpm's pull too much juice from the battery? The Spyder has an magneto not an alternator. The engine has to run at a set temp. That's the job of the thermostat. If its over heating some thing else is going on.

The engine thermostat is operating properly. The issue is that when the Spyder temps get up over the thermostat opening temp, sometimes the fan has a hard time bringing it back down. The solution for some people is to turn the fan on sooner, not allowing the temps to get high in the first place. The Spyder still runs at the proper operating temperature while not climbing too high, too soon. Changing the fan control (thermostat) is more expensive than just adding an auxiliary "fan on" switch.

[boborgera]

The engine thermostat is operating properly. The issue is that when the Spyder temps get up over the thermostat opening temp, sometimes the fan has a hard time bringing it back down. The solution for some people is to turn the fan on sooner, not allowing the temps to get high in the first place. The Spyder still runs at the proper operating temperature while not climbing too high, too soon. Changing the fan control (thermostat) is more expensive than just adding an auxiliary "fan on" switch.

I guess i understand?? I'm so used to last two bike's running hot [SV650/VTX1800] That the Spyder seem's mild by comparison.

[Bulldogger]

The switch is a good idea but now as a rider you have to constantly monitor engine temps and remember to switch the fan on. You can buy the programable SPAL fan controller. I set mine to come on at 195* and to full ramp buy 210*. This is more expensive then a switch but it is a set it and forget option. My wife rides the can-am and this is the carefree way.

[Lamonster]

FYI
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13512

[Questions]

After reading lots I decided to follow rleathen and fit the on/off switch to the fan, I just finished the job and it works great, the temperature is 32C (89F) here today and doing a very slow stop and go test ride I let it get to 5 bars then flick the fan on and bring it back to 3 bars.
does not matter if I flick the switch to on before or after the the auto on at 5 bars+

I wont need to use it all that much but It's nice to know I can bring the temp down if and when I want to.

Thank's to reathen :thumbup: for the post and pics and other information posted by Lamonster and others.

Rob.
Brisbane Australia, It's summer here!

[Big Arm]

It's nice to know I can bring the temp down if and when I want to.

Thank's to reathen :thumbup: for the post and pics and other information posted by Lamonster and others.



Just installed mine yesterday. What I like about this mod is while pulling the trailer, I can bring the temp bars down to normal. (Rode this morning in 42 degree temp.)
Also nice to leave the fan run after pulling into the driveway or garage.

[eddieshep999]

I want to fit a Cooling Fan Manual Override Switch as per this thread on My Spyder RT -S 2010 SE5 Model

I would like to fit the switch in the Panel to match the existing switches e.g Heated Grips, Front Trunk release etc
I have one space left and want to get a switch to fit in and operate the fan - ON/OFF and if possible for the switch to have a light on
just to show when its running

Someone posted this ref Rocker Switches :-

Here's the Allied listing: http://www.alliedelec.com/search/pro...px?SKU=6830143 (http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=6830143)
and the cheaper non-lighted: http://www.alliedelec.com/search/pro...0148#tab=Specs (http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=6830148#tab=Specs)

Would the lighted switch work ok or is there another switch I should consider using

Any Information useful

Eddie Sheppard
Reading UK

[TuckMiddle]

I'm an old guy, with mostly older bikes over my "life cycle span." If the fan isn't coming on soon enough, I guess you try to find a temp switch that will come on sooner. or put in a simple grounded switch. I have been the only rider on most bikes and I have put in many a grounded switch and turn it on when I feel the need. Is there some reason, or many reasons, I shouldn't do that with a Spyder? I have a pretty good scan, with 50 years of flying, and I'm not concerned with other riders on my bike. Just one word will make me remember what to do. YES meaning it's ok, hook up a single black grounded wire with a two pole switch. NO meaning I'm the village idiot and don't do the grounded switch thing. If there are multiple answers, please use NO. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, is a common phrase, but a very true one. My bike is fine, just thinking about simple solutions to use here and there in the future. I've heard "No, bad dog, don't do that" many times, so it's ok to use the two words I really understand.

Thanks for your time and helping to keep me out of the electrical shock ward at the nearest hospital and "Big Red Bug" out of the shop with 35 Nanny codes!!

TuckMiddle

[TobyJ]

I found this via google search, and figure others might as well.

First off, thanks to rleathen for the original post. I had been looking at doing something like this, and his idea is perfect for what I was looking for. First a little background. My wife rides an 08 GS, that has had periodic overheat problems. The first seems to have been due to either a defective or improperly installed cap. While looking at the system, though, I really didn't like the way the fan control was handled by the ECU, so I went with the SPAL fan controller. Two days ago, I removed it, and went back to the factory system with the addition of a switch. Here's why...

We've had two 'failures' with the SPAL device. On two different occasions, several months apart, it failed to turn on the cooling fans, allowing the scoot to go 'limp home mode'. I have no idea what the issue was...the device was powered on, and the indicator light was flashing, but said flashing did not seem to correspond to any of the published error code information. Each time, turning off the scoot, waiting for the device to power down, and restarting the scoot fixed it...fans worked, no further issues. I should note that each time it did this was when she was coming off of extended highway riding...we were pulling into gas stations each time, and as the forward motion stopped, the heat rose, as would be expected if the fans were not working. Also, no other mods were done, no wiring tampered with, no set points adjusted...nothing I could tie to the failure.

After this last episode, I started looking into a way to know this was happening, and a way to address it. The SPAL does have a lead which will ground a status light, so condition is available, sort of...when everything is normal, and the fans are not running, the light will be in the off state. Unfortunately, this same state would exist if the device failed to power up, had lost power, etc. Not overly useful.

My biggest goal here was to add in some sort of override though, which is when I came across the original post. Unfortunately, with the SPAL wired in, Rleathen's fix doesn't work...the factory wiring harness provides a ground for the fan, so when his method adds power to the other side, the fan runs. The SPAL, however, does not provide a ground until the unit wants to power the fan up. SPAL does provide a lead to force the fans on (like for use with AC in a car) but if the unit is malfunctioning, that likely will not work.

I also could have wired in a DPDT relay, which would isolate the SPAL, allowing me to do a modified Rleathen bypass, but that added another level of complexity. So, I wired the fan back to the factory harness, and added in the Rleathen bypass.

What I really like about this method, vs. others I have seen, is that it effectively isolates every possible source of failure in the factory system except a few feet of wire, and the fan itself. Other bypass methods I've seen use the factory relay (basically providing the same input to it the ECU would have) but that leaves the relay in the system, which has been known to fail.

Here's our new riding protocol: The fan switch remains in the off position most of the time, which allows the ecu to do its thing. On the highway, we seldom see above 4 bars. My wife scans the dash regularly, and if she sees 5 or 6, she flips the switch. Along the same lines, when we know that we will be in stop and go traffic, she also flips the switch. I used a 'keyed power source' so that the fan cannot be left on while the bike is not running, which prevents battery drain. A lighted switch also reminds her to shut it off before starting, just in case she doesn't hear the fan noise. Probably doesn't hurt to have it running during startup, but why put extra strain on the battery.

So far, so good.

And lastly, to anyone thinking of doing the 'grounded switch' like TuckMiddle, it won't work in this application. The Rleathen bypass requires 12v to be sent to the fan...the factory provides the ground. You probably could switch a ground to the factory fan relay, but that leaves the relay in place, and could possibly (though I doubt it) send some sort of error code or cause other ecu issues. With the Rleathen method, the ecu is completely isolated behind the factory relay...it has no way of knowing that the fan has been powered on.

Again, I appologize for grave digging this post, and for the lengthy reply, but hopefully it helps someone down the line.

Toby J

Proud Member of Bikers Against Child Abuse
Maricopa County Chapter, AZ
www.BACAworld.org

[garb55]

[QUOTE=rleathen;114459]Well as I indicated in a previous post I intended to install a manual override switch for the cooling fan. Well this morning I finished the mod. Basically what I did was take a 12 volt source through a fuse (15A) and switch (25 amp rated) to the 12 volt power line to the cooling fan AFTER the fan relay.

I installed my fan switch in the dash and connected my fused and switch power line to the fan power line via a posi-tap connector. prior to actually making the connection and based on previous postings about mixed up BRP wiring I verified that the fan wire I was going to tap into was actually the power side and not the ground side. All wiring was placed within wire protectors and all ends were soldered and heat shrink wrapped.

After the installation I ran a 2 part test to verify proper operation. I started the bike and immediately and successfully turned the fan on with my new override switch. I then shut the fan off and let the bike warm up until the computer switched the fan on. With the fan running by way of the control signal from the computer and then turned my fan override switch on. The fan kept running and there were no complaints from the computer.

Attached you will find various pictures of the process. I apologize for the quality of the picture showing where the posi-tap is connected.[/QUOTE

When I first purchased my 2008 GS I rode in Arizona to see my kids
bike ran very hot
I purchased an adjustable fan controller for the auto parts store for cars don't remember what store or name of part
it had a sensor that went between the radiator fins and adjustable temp settings
I took the hot wire before the factory fan relay and ran it to the new adjustable thermostat and left the factory set up intact
I set the thermostat to come on at about 3 and a half bars
I never had another overheat problem riding for the next 6 yrs.
The cooling system is not large enough to cool the bike in hot weather once the engine gets so hot
The only way to fix it is ether a larger cooling system of to start cooling before it gets too hot

[jwulf74]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?62309-fan-reversal/page5

:D

[TobyJ]

When I first purchased my 2008 GS I rode in Arizona to see my kids
bike ran very hot
I purchased an adjustable fan controller for the auto parts store for cars don't remember what store or name of part
it had a sensor that went between the radiator fins and adjustable temp settings
I took the hot wire before the factory fan relay and ran it to the new adjustable thermostat and left the factory set up intact
I set the thermostat to come on at about 3 and a half bars
I never had another overheat problem riding for the next 6 yrs.
The cooling system is not large enough to cool the bike in hot weather once the engine gets so hot
The only way to fix it is ether a larger cooling system of to start cooling before it gets too hot

You are spot on here...the cooling system was not designed very well. I have looked at options several times, but usually stop before I spend a bunch of time and money on it. We've had it 4 years, and for the most part it has been great, but I know my wife will want something newer before too much longer.

I am glad to see that one of those 'stuff the sensor in the fins' devices is working for you...I considered that as well, and might have to look at it again. Some sort of adjustability, while still having an emergency switch, is likely the way to go.


Toby J

Proud Member of Bikers Against Child Abuse
Maricopa County Chapter, AZ
www.BACAworld.org (http://www.bacaworld.org/)

[wickedicey]

Can anyone please provide the install pics for the fan bypass install

[40Xshooter]

I don't see any pictures!