Frightening

[treva]

Wife [pillion] & myself went on our first club ride last saturday on our 2017 RT. After some debate the usual leader didn't want to, so I elected to lead. Quite a slow bunch of riders [although heaps of corners ]& we were slowing to snail pace a lot waiting for them to catch up. Most of the time we were on the speed limit. I don't use the brakes until it's really necessary on roads/corners i know well. I just let the tyres wash off speed in a lot of corners, something I've always done since my racing days. I felt the nanny a few times letting me know she was there, but that's nothing unusual. I've always though the seat detection switch was sensitive. We were really enjoying the ride until half way through a sharp blind corner on a road I know very well & braked accordingly before the corner, the rear wheel locks up & sends us sliding sideways for a few metres & stopping just short of a embankment on our side of the road. I headbutted the steering shattering my visor, & my wife was almost thrown off. Two spyders following managed to swerve around us. I quickly reversed & put a little distance between us & the following riders & pulled over to check out ourselves & the bike. All good, especially my wife although somewhat very confused & frightened. I waved the following riders through & continued on to our destination albeit at very reduced speed. We spoke via our intercoms, my wife & myself wondering what the hell that was all about. I really couldn't workout why the nanny locked up the rear wheel.
I really need an answer as my wife as well as myself are a little hesitant going for another ride on this bike. Does anyone know why the nanny [ If it was the nanny ] locked up the rear wheel. As i have said previously, I did everything correctly leading up to this corner, & should have had no input from the electronics. I have since immobilised the passenger detection switch.
Appreciate all input... Treva.

[Bfromla]

With ABS there shouldn’t have a lock up, it wasn’t nanny.:lecturef_smilie: glad it wasn’t worse.
Suggest visit a dealer & see what buds has recorded.

[BajaRon]

Not good. And definitely not a correctly working Nanny (if that is what created the issue). The Nanny, at her most abrupt interaction would never lock up a wheel. She may be a huge annoyance. But never a hazard in this manner. She is much less aggressive on the redesigned 2013+ models than she was on the earlier Spyders.

I agree with Bfromla. Something is definitely wrong if you are sure it wasn't something you did. Even you should not be able to lock up a wheel for more than a split second. Though it is possible to slide a Spyder under the right conditions. It should not be possible to lock up a wheel.

[Freddy]

Not the first - see complaint no. 12

http://www.spyderryders.net.au/forum/index.php?topic=543.0

[Easy Rider]

Hope you get the cause identified and fixed.

Can't help but make one comment though:

The leader of a group ride NEEDS to adjust his speed to accommodate the average skill level of the rest of the group.

IF you find that you are repeatedly getting too far out in front, you NEED to slow down a bit.

(Of course that has nothing to do with the problem that you had.)

[Highwayman2013]

That is scary and I hope you get it fixed. As far as leading a group I never go more than the speed limit and usually a little below. Aggressive cornering (nanny kicking in) when leading a group is NOT the way to go if you want the group to stay together. You need a mindset of not being in a hurry because other people don't ride as fast as others in the corners. If you lead again take it easy.

[Chupaca]

Glad you are both alright and the group made it around the incedent... Worth having it checked out and registered with BRP as the ABS is designed to keep the wheels from locking up and sending the vehicle into an uncontroled skid. If any of the wheels sensors were off you would get a warning alerting you to the problem. Let us know what you find out..:thumbup:

[BajaRon]

Not the first - see complaint no. 12

http://www.spyderryders.net.au/forum/index.php?topic=543.0

This link references a totally unrelated issue (though brake related). Warped rotors on the F3's are not all that uncommon. I hope that poor guy went with EBC rotors & pads. Much less expensive and bullet proof as far as my experience has been. (Stop better too!).

He'll be right back where he started in a few months if he put OEM parts back on.

[ARtraveler]

I am just going to watch and let those who have information concerning the lock up go on.

The term "nanny" kicking in a few times...made me think you may have been going to fast for the circumstances...but I will not change the subject matter of the OP.

[pegasus1300]

This link references a totally unrelated issue (though brake related). Warped rotors on the F3's are not all that uncommon. I hope that poor guy went with EBC rotors & pads. Much less expensive and bullet proof as far as my experience has been. (Stop better too!).

He'll be right back where he started in a few months if he put OEM parts back on. I thought he was riding an RT. Do they also have a problem with warped rear rotors Ron?

[oldgoat]

I have deleted my reply as I had forgotten about the Vehicle Stability Control which can apply any of the brakes if it intervenes

Sorry about that

[h0gr1der]

All,

Several excerpts from my 2018 RT service manual. Darned .pdf viewer won't allow me to copy and paste, but here goes.

SCS (Stability Control System)- (Big Snip)-" It applies braking power to the appropriate wheel" Direct quote from page 545 or page 1 of the vehicle stability systems section.

Another- "It can, as needed, prevent the front wheel from lifting by applying the brake on the opposite side". Same section.

More- VCM- (Vehicle control module) "heart of the vehicle stability system (VSS) and contains 2 microprocessors, 2 hydraulic pumps, several solenoids, and passageways to the brake calipers".

This bike can indeed apply brake pressure to any brake. You are riding with the algorithm. I'd be mighty interested in what BRP finds on this one.

When I was in industry I used to teach the younger folks about machines, electrics, whatever they were learning. Very common question I asked was "How many types of light bulbs are there?" Answers ranged from CFL, incandescent, LED, etc. Good answers, to be honest. But I always told them there were 2. Those that had already failed, and those that were going to fail in the future. With these bikes being so complex using automation to run everything, it is not unreasonable that something as simple as a switch with a faulty contact or some other such item introduced a large offset to the PID loop controlling the braking/stability system and possibly made an overly large adjustment. In industry, I've never seen an automation startup of great complexity come on-line without unforeseen bugs. Can you say 737 MAX?

[canamjhb]

Scary..... Faulty parking brake.....? I know they are not supposed to activate above just a few MPHs. But, if it is faulty.....? Can't think of anything else that would lock-up the rear wheel independently of the front brakes. I hope a resolution is quickly found and shared with us..... Jim

[treva]

Thanks for all of the replies. I've been mulling it over for a couple of days & one thing i do know the passenger detection switch is very sensitive. I'm pretty sure it initiated the lock up. I'm ringing the dealer today. I'll let you know what/if they find. Thanks again...Treva

[BRPcare]

Wife [pillion] & myself went on our first club ride last saturday on our 2017 RT. After some debate the usual leader didn't want to, so I elected to lead. Quite a slow bunch of riders [although heaps of corners ]& we were slowing to snail pace a lot waiting for them to catch up. Most of the time we were on the speed limit. I don't use the brakes until it's really necessary on roads/corners i know well. I just let the tyres wash off speed in a lot of corners, something I've always done since my racing days. I felt the nanny a few times letting me know she was there, but that's nothing unusual. I've always though the seat detection switch was sensitive. We were really enjoying the ride until half way through a sharp blind corner on a road I know very well & braked accordingly before the corner, the rear wheel locks up & sends us sliding sideways for a few metres & stopping just short of a embankment on our side of the road. I headbutted the steering shattering my visor, & my wife was almost thrown off. Two spyders following managed to swerve around us. I quickly reversed & put a little distance between us & the following riders & pulled over to check out ourselves & the bike. All good, especially my wife although somewhat very confused & frightened. I waved the following riders through & continued on to our destination albeit at very reduced speed. We spoke via our intercoms, my wife & myself wondering what the hell that was all about. I really couldn't workout why the nanny locked up the rear wheel.
I really need an answer as my wife as well as myself are a little hesitant going for another ride on this bike. Does anyone know why the nanny [ If it was the nanny ] locked up the rear wheel. As i have said previously, I did everything correctly leading up to this corner, & should have had no input from the electronics. I have since immobilised the passenger detection switch.
Appreciate all input... Treva.



Hey Treva,

Thanks for reaching out.

We are very sorry to hear that this has happened to your wife and words cannot express just how happy we are that nobody was hurt.

At this time, we urge you to reach out to your local BRP Certified dealership to have them take a look at your unit to diagnose any technical related concerns that may be underlying. We want to ensure your safety and this certainly doesn't sound right to us.

If you require any further assistance, or have any other comments or concerns, please do not hesitate to reach out to us via email at brp.care@brp.com.

Kindest Regards,

David-BRPcare

[treva]

Hey Treva,

Thanks for reaching out.

We are very sorry to hear that this has happened to your wife and words cannot express just how happy we are that nobody was hurt.

At this time, we urge you to reach out to your local BRP Certified dealership to have them take a look at your unit to diagnose any technical related concerns that may be underlying. We want to ensure your safety and this certainly doesn't sound right to us.

If you require any further assistance, or have any other comments or concerns, please do not hesitate to reach out to us via email at brp.care@brp.com.

Kindest Regards,

David-BRPcare

Hello David, Thanks for your feedback & concern. I do hope the dealer can find & rectify the problem....Treva.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

All,

Several excerpts from my 2018 RT service manual. Darned .pdf viewer won't allow me to copy and paste, but here goes.
Momentary side track.

It's not your viewer. The pdf document is locked to prevent copying.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Treva, even though your Spyder is fairly new, did you by chance flush the braking system, or get air into it, and not have the dealer reset the ABS using BUSs?

[treva]

Treva, even though your Spyder is fairly new, did you by chance flush the braking system, or get air into it, and not have the dealer reset the ABS using BUSs?

Hello IdahoMtnSpyder, No I have not flushed the braking system. The bike is booked in tomorrow 5/2/19 & I will ask Your question. They may have for some reason flushed the system prior delivery. Food for thought.
Thanks..Treva.

[AY4B]

It sounds to me like the parking brake locked up. It happened to one of our group this Sunday but at a gas stop. I called Lamont and he explained to me that It could be any number of things, one of which is an electrical accuator. We disconnected the PB cable and on our way out, My brakes went into a fault. Totally unrelated though. Later the message on the screen said low brake fluid. I went to an auto parts and put some in. I also ordered new brake pads as soon as I got home from Lamonster garage.

[AY4B]

I have on occasion while downshifting hit the parking brake by mistake. I know it is not supposed to work at certain speeds but slowing down on a hairpin curve you may have been below the limit. anyway whatever it was, It was not supposed to do that. on the newer Spyders I think they relocated the button.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I am just going to watch and let those who have information concerning the lock up go on.

The term "nanny" kicking in a few times...made me think you may have been going to fast for the circumstances...but I will not change the subject matter of the OP.

:roflblack:....." Too fast for the circumstances " ..... I beg to differ ... I think " Too fast for the NANNY " .... The Spyder holds the road very well ( imho ) .... Too well for the VSS settings ..... Mike :ohyea:

[AY4B]

:roflblack:....." Too fast for the circumstances " ..... I beg to differ ... I think " Too fast for the NANNY " .... The Spyder holds the road very well ( imho ) .... Too well for the VSS settings ..... Mike :ohyea:

He was not in his comfort zone. Leading some slow ryders and ryding double with some hairpin curves. I hate leading slow ryders. You spend more time looking back than just ryding.

[treva]

I have on occasion while downshifting hit the parking brake by mistake. I know it is not supposed to work at certain speeds but slowing down on a hairpin curve you may have been below the limit. anyway whatever it was, It was not supposed to do that. on the newer Spyders I think they relocated the button.

Yes AY4B I have almost hit the park switch when I first rode my F3-S. Quickly trained my thumb to reach as far left as possible so not to thumb the switch. Our RT is a manual & the park switch is below the steering. No chance of hitting it accidentally.

[treva]

:roflblack:....." Too fast for the circumstances " ..... I beg to differ ... I think " Too fast for the NANNY " .... The Spyder holds the road very well ( imho ) .... Too well for the VSS settings ..... Mike :ohyea:

Couldn't agree more Mike. Like I said before, I know the road very well & with my wife on board I would never put her/us in a dangerous situation. Yes, I ride faster than the average person, time & place permitting, but one can do that when you know how. If the dealer doesn't find the cause of the lockup, the bike will be sold, as we will have no trust in it....Treva

[Freddy]

Yes, that's what Jim P in NSW did too - be rid of it. Dealer & BRP will say 'never heard of that before' which is a different take on 'they all do that.' Ride safe.

[treva]

Yes, that's what Jim P in NSW did too - be rid of it. Dealer & BRP will say 'never heard of that before' which is a different take on 'they all do that.' Ride safe.

I'm hoping for a positive outcome. BUDS surely will define what caused the lockup. If not......Treva.

[treva]

He was not in his comfort zone. Leading some slow ryders and ryding double with some hairpin curves. I hate leading slow ryders. You spend more time looking back than just ryding.

I elected to lead knowing full well there will be slow riders. Every one has their pace. That situation does not bother me one iota. Riding 2up with ''hairpin curves'' when you know what you are doing, is something that puts me in my comfort zone....Treva.

[Freddy]

Buds will show something only if it displayed a fault on the dash I believe. It did not, did it?

[Easy Rider]

I elected to lead knowing full well there will be slow riders. Every one has their pace. That situation does not bother me one iota.


Well it SHOULD.
And with that attitude, you should NOT be leading any group rides with "slower" or unknown riders in it.
Seriously.

[Thopper]

Is disconnecting the PB mechanically a solution albeit a band aid? This whole scenario makes e nervous being a new Spyder owner. Are there other reports of occurrence?

[Easy Rider]

Quite a few failures of the PB.....but scant few of them locking up while moving.....thankfully.

[Thopper]

Which brake is activated with the PB switch...I was assuming the rear only?

[treva]

Buds will show something only if it displayed a fault on the dash I believe. It did not, did it?


With what happened at the time, I honestly didn't look to see if there was a code. A bit further on from the l/up, I did look, & no code. .Treva

[treva]

Which brake is activated with the PB switch...I was assuming the rear only?

Yes Thopper that's correct...Treva

[treva]

Well it SHOULD.
And with that attitude, you should NOT be leading any group rides with "slower" or unknown riders in it.
Seriously.
What I meant was if the gap is widening I'm only too happy to wait for them. That's all part of leading....Treva.

[UtahPete]

Hope you get the cause identified and fixed.

Can't help but make one comment though:

The leader of a group ride NEEDS to adjust his speed to accommodate the average skill level of the rest of the group.

IF you find that you are repeatedly getting too far out in front, you NEED to slow down a bit.

(Of course that has nothing to do with the problem that you had.)

Completely irrelevant response to the OP's concern.And, considerably biased. Not all agree about group riding protocols, which were designed for 2-wheelers, in my not so humble opinion.

[Freddy]

With what happened at the time, I honestly didn't look to see if there was a code. A bit further on from the l/up, I did look, & no code. .Treva


Can't blame you for that!!!

[treva]

Completely irrelevant response to the OP's concern.And, considerably biased. Not all agree about group riding protocols, which were designed for 2-wheelers, in my not so humble opinion.

Well said UP...Treva

[Easy Rider]

Which brake is activated with the PB switch...I was assuming the rear only?

It is the rear only......but not with the actual brake hardware.
LOOK at the rear disc and see the notches where the parking pawl engages.

Once you see that.......the whole thing becomes a bit MORE worrysome; at least it did for me.

[Easy Rider]

Completely irrelevant response to the OP's concern.And, considerably biased. Not all agree about group riding protocols, which were designed for 2-wheelers, in my not so humble opinion.

Just can't pass up an opportunity to throw a rock......can you ??
It was not ME that introduced group riding into the thread.

Groups like the AMA and MSF pretty much agree on good group riding practices......and I don't care if your opinion is different.

[Peter Aawen]

C'mon you two, & by that 'you two' I mean UtahPete & Easy Rider - If you aren't going to contribute anything beneficial to the topic or you just can't post politely, then it's a whole lot better for either/both of you not to post at all! :lecturef_smilie:

[Thopper]

I don't give **** about rider protocol ....I care about my safety...is thing safe????

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

It is the rear only......but not with the actual brake hardware.
LOOK at the rear disc and see the notches where the parking pawl engages.

Once you see that.......the whole thing becomes a bit MORE worrysome; at least it did for me.
Which year and model are you referring to? On my 2014 RTS the parking brake is part of the brake components inside the brake cylinder. The PB motor pulls on the cable that turns the PB lever a few degrees. The lever is connected to a screw inside the cylinder and pushes the piston against the brake rotor. If the cable is loose, or the PB motor is weak or doesn't turn as far as it should the pressure against the rotor won't be enough to keep the wheel from turning.

You sure the notches you're looking aren't the ones for the wheel sensor?

[treva]

Took bike to dealer today & witnessed with the tech via BUDS the fault codes. There are quite a few ranging from VCM voltage failure/voltage spike, DPS invalid or missing vehicle speed, ECM gear position sensor angle, & more. I asked if all these faults occurred all at once & caused the lock up, or if some of the codes happened some time ago. His BUDS will only register time & date if it's looked at within approx 1 day of a code initiation so he didn't know. The dealer will send the info to BRP for them to access. I rode the bike to & from the dealer & it performed flawlessly. On saying that, leading up to & riding through every corner, I never felt at ease. I'm confident the problem will be found & sorted. I hope I don't end up eating those words. I'll post when I know more...Treva.

[Freddy]

Wow! That's surprising. It'll be even more surprising if you can get an answer you can believe.

[treva]

Ahh, got to stay positive....Treva

[jcthorne]

What are you talking about? The parking brake squeezes the same pads as the service brakes. There is no pawl that engages notches in the brake disk.

[jcthorne]

Took bike to dealer today & witnessed with the tech via BUDS the fault codes. There are quite a few ranging from VCM voltage failure/voltage spike, DPS invalid or missing vehicle speed, ECM gear position sensor angle, & more. I asked if all these faults occurred all at once & caused the lock up, or if some of the codes happened some time ago. His BUDS will only register time & date if it's looked at within approx 1 day of a code initiation so he didn't know. The dealer will send the info to BRP for them to access. I rode the bike to & from the dealer & it performed flawlessly. On saying that, leading up to & riding through every corner, I never felt at ease. I'm confident the problem will be found & sorted. I hope I don't end up eating those words. I'll post when I know more...Treva.

Two minor points that might help. First is the faults page in BUDS does indeed store the time each event occurs and it can be displayed until they are removed. Except they are expressed in engine hours, not date and time.

Second if that group of faults has all happened in a few hours run time, I would highly suspect a voltage issue. Start with carefully checking the battery connections, the ground cable both ends and then the fuse box. Have seen many fuse boxes get corrosion in the fuse holders. Pull each fuse and clean them, reinsert. If there is visible rust on the terminals in the box, it got water in there and is too far gone. Replacement time. All those sensors and especially the DPS do not all go bad at the same time. DPS is heavy power user, especially when you were turning and could easily be the trigger point for a low voltage event. Check the battery condition as well.

Good luck in finding the issue.

[Freddy]

What are you talking about? The parking brake squeezes the same pads as the service brakes. There is no pawl that engages notches in the brake disk.


Agreed. The best substitute for brains is....................Silence!

[treva]

Two minor points that might help. First is the faults page in BUDS does indeed store the time each event occurs and it can be displayed until they are removed. Except they are expressed in engine hours, not date and time.

Second if that group of faults has all happened in a few hours run time, I would highly suspect a voltage issue. Start with carefully checking the battery connections, the ground cable both ends and then the fuse box. Have seen many fuse boxes get corrosion in the fuse holders. Pull each fuse and clean them, reinsert. If there is visible rust on the terminals in the box, it got water in there and is too far gone. Replacement time. All those sensors and especially the DPS do not all go bad at the same time. DPS is heavy power user, especially when you were turning and could easily be the trigger point for a low voltage event. Check the battery condition as well.

Good luck in finding the issue.

Thanks jcthorne, I'll let BRP/dealer work out when these faults occurred. One of the first maintenance jobs I did not long after I purchased the bike new some 14 months ago was smear a little electrical grease on the fuse connections & on the battery terminals & tighten them. Have not looked at these until the day after the lockup. Everything looked brand new, & both battery connection terminal bolts [+& -] although tight, I nipped them a little more. Negative to bodywork I found very tight. Also checked battery voltage static & read 13volts. On starting, battery voltage dropped to 11v momentarily then back up to 13volts. Looks like the battery is ok. With your experience, what do you think? The battery brand name is Dynavolt...Thanks, Treva.

[jcthorne]

Not having eyes on the bike and just throwing out ideas from what I have read here. If the voltage is steady under load, then the battery is fine, no matter the brand. It was just that experience has shown when a number of faults show up together, especially DPS, suspect battery voltage issues first.

My next steps would be to clear all occured faults and concentrate on active faults. If none, its going to take some riding and troubleshooting to find anything that is not currently an active fault. Last couple times I went down this rabbit hole, it turned out to be chaffed wiring harness grounding a circuit. Hard to find.

Keep us posted on what the dealer finds and where this leads. I will try and post any thoughts on what may be going on as we learn things.

[treva]

Not having eyes on the bike and just throwing out ideas from what I have read here. If the voltage is steady under load, then the battery is fine, no matter the brand. It was just that experience has shown when a number of faults show up together, especially DPS, suspect battery voltage issues first.

My next steps would be to clear all occured faults and concentrate on active faults. If none, its going to take some riding and troubleshooting to find anything that is not currently an active fault. Last couple times I went down this rabbit hole, it turned out to be chaffed wiring harness grounding a circuit. Hard to find.

Keep us posted on what the dealer finds and where this leads. I will try and post any thoughts on what may be going on as we learn things.

Thanks for the feedback jcthorne, There are no active faults & I hear what you say about hard to find. The bike is going back to the dealer next Thursday. I'll post when I know something...Treva.

[treva]

The bike has been at the dealer for 3 weeks now. They found some anomalies, informed BRP, who diagnosed a VCM problem. I was informed by the dealer on 5/14/19, that the part was being air freighted. I called the dealer today, & was shocked to hear the part is at least another 2 weeks away. Air freight....WTF. I have lost patience with BRP, & I'm a very tolerant person. The out come of the rear wheel lock up could have had disastrous consequences. One would think BRP would have expedited the part to enable the dealer to have the bike up & running within a week at most, & to appease the customer. Either they, BRP, do not know the real problem or their customer service stinks. Possibly both. Really starting to believe all the negative feedback regarding BRP on a lot of forums.

One thing I know for certain is BRP has lost a sale of a new F3 which I was going to purchase for our sons 50th birthday next month.

[Airborne]

The bike has been at the dealer for 3 weeks now. They found some anomalies, informed BRP, who diagnosed a VCM problem. I was informed by the dealer on 5/14/19, that the part was being air freighted. I called the dealer today, & was shocked to hear the part is at least another 2 weeks away. Air freight....WTF. I have lost patience with BRP, & I'm a very tolerant person. The out come of the rear wheel lock up could have had disastrous consequences. One would think BRP would have expedited the part to enable the dealer to have the bike up & running within a week at most, & to appease the customer. Either they, BRP, do not know the real problem or their customer service stinks. Possibly both. Really starting to believe all the negative feedback regarding BRP on a lot of forums.

One thing I know for certain is BRP has lost a sale of a new F3 which I was going to purchase for our sons 50th birthday next month.

Sorry to hear of your problems Treva and sorrier still more of your leaving the brand. i recently bought a 18 F3 LTD, you've probably seen my posts recently!

If not, i have been on a learning curve on the handling side of things and have really started to enjoy the ride and still do but my confidence was shattered a day ago when i joined a group ride of over 50s riders [group will/shall remain nameless] for the day.

I Was part of this group/club a year or two ago on two wheels and back then they were the quickest group of older riders i'd ridden with, good luck to them, mostly great folks and a pleasure to be around but i was always down the back with the 'tail-end charlie' not a problem apart from two things, a slight feeling of self-induced guilt about not keeping up, worse still a club member, on the pretence of being helpful, took me to one side and told me that for the sake of the group i must keep up!

Now i wasn't going slow, around or just under the speed limit and taking corners with my skill levels but he's quick and he doesn't want to be held up!

So i happened to come across the President the over day who invited me back to ride with them again, well lo and behold, the same fast member was still there and this day was leading the run, i was gobsmacked when he said in his pr-amble 'again fellas, keep up with the rider in front of you. Again i struggled to keep the pace and gave up in the end and went home. To top it all off this guy used to be a Police crash investigator, unbelievable!

In all my years of riding i have never been told to keep up with anyone, the opposite is true ,take your time, run at your own pace. Even in my younger silly days on and in Sports Bike clubs.

Everyone should ride at a pace that suits them fast or slow, it's there choice but telling people to ;keep up; is a recipe for disaster, in my opinion.

Sorry Treva, not having a go at you just saw a subject that made me tell this story. Cheers!

[stmike 1800]

Ride your own ride and to H@LL with every one else.

[Freddy]

Keep up, keep up be buggered. As you say AB, 'mostly great folks and a pleasure to be around' but there's usually one or two who aren't. I almost never ride in a group bigger than 5 for the reasons you mention. And as for keeping a safe distance...........?!?! One local died over Easter when 1 bike clipped another on a bend, one of em went to the wrong side into oncoming traffic.

As for BRP and Treva - Either they, BRP, do not know the real problem or their customer service stinks. Possibly both. He got that right as has been seen time and time again over 10 years.

[bikerbillone]

That's not good for anyone, I would not be a happy camper either.

[ChicagoSpyder]

That's not good for anyone, I would not be a happy camper either. How can it take so long to get a part, Canada is right next door to America, jus sayin.

Next door for Treva is New Guinea, New Zealand, and Antarctica, and then from what I hear it's a slow boat that runs from Valcourt, to Queensland :hun:

[BRPcare]

Good day Treva,

Thank you for the update. We are sorry to hear about the delay in getting the requested part to the dealership.

We would like to see if there is anything we can do to assist. Kindly send us an email at brp.care@brp.com or give us a call at 1-888-272-9222, including your unit’s VIN# so we can verify your account in our system.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Vanessa-BRPcare

[bikerbillone]

Holy Christmas, I am impressed, go on another board and grumble about a legit problem, I have yet to see a 'corporate' respond. Whether this helps or not remains to be seen, still I am impressed.

[Airborne]

Good day Treva,

Thank you for the update. We are sorry to hear about the delay in getting the requested part to the dealership.

We would like to see if there is anything we can do to assist. Kindly send us an email at brp.care@brp.com or give us a call at 1-888-272-9222, including your unit’s VIN# so we can verify your account in our system.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Vanessa-BRPcare

Im impressed too! keep it up BRP good to see. it is rare to have a company respond like this, better still if the response turns to results! These type of sites are the place for companies to gain information, real feedback on their products.

[treva]

Next door for Treva is New Guinea, New Zealand, and Antarctica, and then from what I hear it's a slow boat that runs from Valcourt, to Queensland :hun:

:D....treva

[treva]

Good day Treva,

Thank you for the update. We are sorry to hear about the delay in getting the requested part to the dealership.

We would like to see if there is anything we can do to assist. Kindly send us an email at brp.care@brp.com or give us a call at 1-888-272-9222, including your unit’s VIN# so we can verify your account in our system.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Vanessa-BRPcare

I have sent an email to you. Thanks......Treva.

[treva]

Sorry to hear of your problems Treva and sorrier still more of your leaving the brand. i recently bought a 18 F3 LTD, you've probably seen my posts recently!

If not, i have been on a learning curve on the handling side of things and have really started to enjoy the ride and still do but my confidence was shattered a day ago when i joined a group ride of over 50s riders [group will/shall remain nameless] for the day.

I Was part of this group/club a year or two ago on two wheels and back then they were the quickest group of older riders i'd ridden with, good luck to them, mostly great folks and a pleasure to be around but i was always down the back with the 'tail-end charlie' not a problem apart from two things, a slight feeling of self-induced guilt about not keeping up, worse still a club member, on the pretence of being helpful, took me to one side and told me that for the sake of the group i must keep up!

Now i wasn't going slow, around or just under the speed limit and taking corners with my skill levels but he's quick and he doesn't want to be held up!

So i happened to come across the President the over day who invited me back to ride with them again, well lo and behold, the same fast member was still there and this day was leading the run, i was gobsmacked when he said in his pr-amble 'again fellas, keep up with the rider in front of you. Again i struggled to keep the pace and gave up in the end and went home. To top it all off this guy used to be a Police crash investigator, unbelievable!

In all my years of riding i have never been told to keep up with anyone, the opposite is true ,take your time, run at your own pace. Even in my younger silly days on and in Sports Bike clubs.

Everyone should ride at a pace that suits them fast or slow, it's there choice but telling people to ;keep up; is a recipe for disaster, in my opinion.

Sorry Treva, not having a go at you just saw a subject that made me tell this story. Cheers!

As others have said, ride at your own pace...Treva

[Airborne]

Next door for Treva is New Guinea, New Zealand, and Antarctica, and then from what I hear it's a slow boat that runs from Valcourt, to Queensland :hun:

Just bought a Windshield from the garage on here, took 2 weeks, great service, why hasn't Treva got his part!

[treva]

Just bought a Windshield from the garage on here, took 2 weeks, great service, why hasn't Treva got his part!

:dontknow:.....Treva

[Airborne]

Keep up, keep up be buggered. As you say AB, 'mostly great folks and a pleasure to be around' but there's usually one or two who aren't. I almost never ride in a group bigger than 5 for the reasons you mention. And as for keeping a safe distance...........?!?! One local died over Easter when 1 bike clipped another on a bend, one of em went to the wrong side into oncoming traffic.

As for BRP and Treva - Either they, BRP, do not know the real problem or their customer service stinks. Possibly both. He got that right as has been seen time and time again over 10 years.

Dead right Freddy, ride as you want and yes, always one or two around.

AB,like that !might have to use that as a new moniker!

[askitee]

Been there and experience this on 2017 RTL - probably even have the stains in the jocks to prove it.

Scenario 1: Chief cook and I were riding a country road negotiating a slow left-hander, not tight and no speed advisory. We were 4th in a group. Back brake locked the back wheel and the handlebars straightened. We coasted in this state for 5-5 meters into the oncoming lane and off the verge. While doing this I was trying to work out how I was going to try to avoid two large gum trees on the outside of the corner. Had any vehicle, especially one of the cattle trucks we had seen, been on the other lane neither of us would be here to reminisce. It frightened the hell out of the RT's following, and even the one in front who saw it happen in his rear view mirror having just negotiated the corner at the same speed on his 2016 RTL.

Scenario 2 In a line of traffic travelling at 100Km/hr. I was following a truck who was maintaining speed up a small incline. Out of the blue VSS cut in and applied the back break. The car following me had to swerve into the center of the road to avoid hitting me and the one behind him swerved up the inside to avoid me too. No cruise control, no acceleration to warrant a loss of traction that would cause the ABS or VSS to cut in.

Scenario 3 riding two up up the side of a hill and negotiated a Right hand turn with no speed advisory doing about 80km/hr on a 100km/hr limit road. Realized I was in too high a gear so dropped back a gear. Rear wheel locked up and handlebars straightened out, we were close to the center line and ended on the verge.

Being still under warranty, I took it to the dealership where I bought the RT, having complained about odd handling before - was told "its the way they behave, they'd investigate for 1 hour but if I wanted it investigated further I'd have to pay"

Took it to another dealership but didn't mention the issues. The tech took it for a test ride and came back - he was very diplomatic in his "WTF is going on with this thing?". He found
1. The rear top shock mount had been assembled incorrectly and the bolt holding it was finger tight.
2. The wheel alignment hadn't been done properly - leading to the VSS not being really sure what the hell was going on at any given time.

When it came time for me to take the bike for a test ride - there was another 2017 RTL in for a service. I jumped on the spyder he said was mine and rode to the corner of the building (which was the showroom in front of the workshop). I stopped, got off the RTL and walked around to the Number plate - I did not think/believe I was on my RT - it was. It now felt nothing like it had in the 15000km I had owned it from new.

While from time to time it still likes to lock the tail up and straighten the steering mid corner I now at least know I am pushing it a little too hard. Prior to this change I had no way of predicting when the VSS and back brake would cut in.

For me it has me reconsidering again weather I should go back to two wheels as I fear it ever returning. I felt safer in the wet on any of my past two wheeled bikes and am looking at the Honda Goldwing. Like you I have raced and ridden MotoX, Sports Road, Tourers, Quads, undertaken MC training and spent a lot of time trying to figure out the safest way to enjoy the RTL.

Below is the email I sent to the group GM of the dealership I bought mine from and will never return to until they get their act together.

1st_Dealership = where I bought the RTL
2nd_Dealership = where god works and fixed my RTL
XXX XXXYY = Managers and techs involved.

Hi Salesperson

Feel free to use this information in a way you see fit. Apologies also for the “lengthiness” and I provide this as feedback.

After the last visit to 1st_Dealership I wasn’t satisfied with the outcome to the issue with the VSS cutting in. I was told things which included “bumping the brake, the gear change, wheel slip, imperfections in the road”… to name a few were the cause. I sat in silence taking the information in and recall feeling this is ridiculous. The only issue found was the lead on the battery was loose causing an over-voltage condition. I admit with embarrassment that until that day I did not know where the battery was.

I took the bike to 2nd_Dealership for the 15000k service and asked them to perform a wheel alignment, but made no mention of the VSS.

In one day the tech addressed every issue the bike had.

When at 1st_Dealership for the VSS Service Manager stated he’d spend no more than an hour on the bike and that I’d have to pay. XXXYYY mentioned also on the day that the bike was pulling to the left which was something I knew, it had done this since the ball joint replacement visit to 1st_Dealership. He suggested tyre pressures be amended to address the camber in the road. I knew it to be more than this. WSM found the wheel alignment appeared to have been done incorrectly and pointed out a range of issues this would cause, including crabbing, twitching (where the bike moves constantly from side to side when in a straight line), nervousness under brakes and VSS/Steering assist being confused about the actual positional state of the bike.

2nd_Dealership also found that the rear shock mount had been assembled incorrectly, and the bolt or pin securing it was not tight, the nut was only finger tight. Lesser issues observed was that the Left mirror mount was broken and a rubber mounting grommet had not been refitted, panels I have never needed to remove were incorrectly fitted. There was more but I think you get the picture

They started at 08:00, the tech then I test rode the bike at 17:00 – I could not believe it was the same bike. I rode the driveway and stopped, got off the bike, checked the rego plate to confirm I hadn’t had a practical joke played on me. It handles as good as the 2018 model you kindly lent me and any other RT Ltd belonging to Spyder riders in the region that I have ridden as a comparison. I rode home via the putty in atrocious conditions and the bike did not falter in any way. It was confidence inspiring to ride and showed confidence in its ability to handle the average road conditions.

I have no doubt 1st_Dealership felt I was inadequate at portraying or misguided in interpreting the issues I was raising – but now have been vindicated by 2nd_Dealership. It was the most reassuring event to have the mechanic communicate a number of issues that I had always assumed would never be addressed.

I don’t know why my experience has been this way with 1st_Dealership Service Dept. I have :
• given feedback,
• and importantly tried to ensure my own actions weren’t the sole factor behind a problem,
• felt that the history we were building would lead to a good outcome eventually though persistence (I understand some problems take time to resolve)
• returned to the workshop when many in the region were scathing in their opinion at my persistence.
in my mind there are possibilities, some I can accept, but the ones that have seen my wife and I risking our lives on an unsafe bike twice due to it lunging and the unpredictability of the VSS requiring my constant harassment of 1st_Dealership are not.

Having managed teams in IT, NSW Fire Brigade and 30 odd staff when supervising a team of Tradesmen in my time at LPS, I see some issues that need attention:
• Techs minimising distraction when working on the bikes (forgetting to finish the shock mount).
• Techs checking their work to ensure the machine is returned in a safe state (ensuring all fittings are secured properly).
• Factory Trained Techs ensuring the full process recommended by BRP is followed to its fullest (wheel alignment procedure not fully adhered to).
• Trusting that the rider is not trying to con the workshop and that their experience on the machine is fully considered (VSS behaviour).
• Have the techs gain more experience on the Spyders so that they can legitimise issues reported by the client. I suspect often the issues are deemed to be normal behaviour by the techs when more familiarity would ensure they know the product well enough to recognise issues.
• That advice given is consistent.
• That advice given is safe (it was advised to me at 1st_Dealership to “run the rear tyre to almost bald because all the safety systems are going to keep you safe”.) I think we both know VSS will never address a situation where a tyre is unable to get any grip.

I hold no blame at XXXXX – he isn’t a BRP tech, and is less familiar with the product than that witnessed at 2nd_Dealership.

You and XXX have been tremendous and you especially have been a great help, mentor and friend. As mentioned when I rode the 2018 loaner – I considered twice asking for a changeover price, but reflected that I would still be locked into using the workshop there. I am in the position now that my safety and satisfaction must come first and will not return to 1st_Dealership until there is proof the environment at 1st_Dealership Service Dep’t changes for the better. In the event that it does I know personally a great number of Spyder riders in the region who would return to 1st_Dealership.

I hope you have a happy and safe Xmas/New Year. My wife and I are heading away for a week on the Spyder possibly to Vic. and S.A. with what amounts to a new machine. I still have you to thank for “wooing me” to the product and the enjoyment it now provides.

[treva]

My goodness askitee, 3 times and you are still here to tell the tale. You are a lot gamer than me. Someone is definitely looking after you. I certainly won't be riding my bike until the problem has been fully diagnosed and rectified. This is a serious safety issue and I never want to experience another rear wheel lock up.......Treva

[ChicagoSpyder]

Just bought a Windshield from the garage on here, took 2 weeks, great service, why hasn't Treva got his part!


:dontknow:.....Treva

It's an excellent question, Air Canada has a flight from Montreal to Brisbane 21h 55m, allow a few more days for customs and some local transport time and it should be a done deal.

[treva]

It's an excellent question, Air Canada has a flight from Montreal to Brisbane 21h 55m, allow a few more days for customs and some local transport time and it should be a done deal.

Something has stalled the part transfer process, and I'm fairly sure I know why. Diagnosing an electronic lockup is a few steps towards '' rocket science''.... Treva

[Airborne]

Askites, Wow! jock strainer for sure! It would stop me riding my bike. Well done for surviving 3 attempts on your life and the tenacity to pursue through to a good result.

I Guess all's well that ends well but what a story, in depth and well told!

One thing to come out of this is how important it is to have a good dealer and how bad it is to have a crap one. Our machines are not as straightforward as a lot of others and should have specialist care and attention it seems but the training, experience and most importantly the right attitude must be there, in your case Dealer 2 sounds good.

I kinda worried about my dealer, very friendly, easy-going but proficient, i hope so.

it's only 30 km away [next on is 400 km away] i wonder how good the tech is and does he do the right thing all the time. Time will tell i suppose. Don't suppose your Dealer 2 is opening a franchise in Australia's 'deep south', is he! Whatever hes got we should bottle it.

Anyway, glad to hear its all sorted and hope your Spyder future carries on positively.

[h0gr1der]

I'm going to throw out a comment that may be totally alien to some, some may have way more knowledge than me about it and be able to expound. We are all riding on the algorithm. The Spyder is computer controlled, and in some cases autonomously. I'd really like to see the actual findings in this case. It applies to all of us, in some way or another.

In the industry I worked in, I&E automation ran almost everything. Based on a hazard's identified danger to destroy or kill, and probability of an incident happening, IEC 61508/61511, SIL #1 through #4 dictated what type of control was mandated. A really bad thing that almost never happens gets a low SIL rating, and minimal control systems. A really bad thing that happens often gets a high SIL rating, sometimes mandating redundancy of control. Gibberish, I know, but let me continue.

Back to the Spyder. G force sensors, wheel speed sensors, yaw sensors, so many sensors and electronics. How many sensors have to agree before autonomous braking is applied? The wheel sensors appear to be Hall switches, either to an amplitude measurement input or high speed counter. To be safe, it should probably be a circuit with a built in design safety, commonly called closed loop. Some kind of reference signal (12 VDC), that if lost, causes the safe shutdown (Limp Mode) without causing an unsafe action (Full Braking Application). What if the one sensor that causes this kind of action fails in such a mode that it thinks it's OK, no loss of the feedback loop? If it's a single point measurement system (Low SIL Rating), then you get this kind of situation.

I'd really like to know what they find.

[treva]

I'm going to throw out a comment that may be totally alien to some, some may have way more knowledge than me about it and be able to expound. We are all riding on the algorithm. The Spyder is computer controlled, and in some cases autonomously. I'd really like to see the actual findings in this case. It applies to all of us, in some way or another.

In the industry I worked in, I&E automation ran almost everything. Based on a hazard's identified danger to destroy or kill, and probability of an incident happening, IEC 61508/61511, SIL #1 through #4 dictated what type of control was mandated. A really bad thing that almost never happens gets a low SIL rating, and minimal control systems. A really bad thing that happens often gets a high SIL rating, sometimes mandating redundancy of control. Gibberish, I know, but let me continue.

Back to the Spyder. G force sensors, wheel speed sensors, yaw sensors, so many sensors and electronics. How many sensors have to agree before autonomous braking is applied? The wheel sensors appear to be Hall switches, either to an amplitude measurement input or high speed counter. To be safe, it should probably be a circuit with a built in design safety, commonly called closed loop. Some kind of reference signal (12 VDC), that if lost, causes the safe shutdown (Limp Mode) without causing an unsafe action (Full Braking Application). What if the one sensor that causes this kind of action fails in such a mode that it thinks it's OK, no loss of the feedback loop? If it's a single point measurement system (Low SIL Rating), then you get this kind of situation.

I'd really like to know what they find.

I know where you're coming from hogr1der, and the list of inquiring minds gets longer by the day seeking the cause of the l/up. ...Treva

[askitee]

HI h0gr1der,

Sounds like one of my theories when mine was playing up. I explained it seemed as if the VSS was getting conflicting signals.

I wondered if:
: A sensor was connected with incorrect polarity.
: Sensors needed calibrating ( eg a 50'ft diameter fan where sensors at either end of the shaft determine if the vibration is at one end or central. the sensors had to be calibrated to make sure their readings were identical in their default state or adjusted for manufacturing differences).
: A sensor was left disconnected.
: In VSS there needed to be adjustments to sensor sensitivity that hadn't been looked at (they spent a month dealing with the RTL lunging and found a defective balljoint)

The day I took my RTL to the shop where I bought it, I asked some straight questions of the Service Manager - he just glazed over. After about 10mins I could see he had no idea what I was talking about and could not explain in any detail how the process works in specific situations. It was too easy for him to blame me, road conditions, riding style.

I still have strong reservations about the way VSS straightens the steering completely rather than minor adjustments if it needs to react. There is no way for the rider to react/address short of praying no one is coming in the opposite direction. I LOVE so many aspects of the RTL, but this sole issue nags at me each time it cuts in. Having ridden two wheelers for so long I knew what to do in situations, having developed my skills over hundreds of thousands of KM's riding in all and any weather.

I am active in the regional riding scene, active on Social media assisting others where I can, but at present I am weighing up whether I should go back to something like a Goldwing where I could trust the machine. Car/Truck/bus drivers do enought to try to take us out - we sure as heck dont need another reason stemming from some bad tech choices to add to the list!!

[WingManDan]

I'm going to throw out a comment that may be totally alien to some, some may have way more knowledge than me about it and be able to expound. We are all riding on the algorithm. The Spyder is computer controlled, and in some cases autonomously. I'd really like to see the actual findings in this case. It applies to all of us, in some way or another.

In the industry I worked in, I&E automation ran almost everything. Based on a hazard's identified danger to destroy or kill, and probability of an incident happening, IEC 61508/61511, SIL #1 through #4 dictated what type of control was mandated. A really bad thing that almost never happens gets a low SIL rating, and minimal control systems. A really bad thing that happens often gets a high SIL rating, sometimes mandating redundancy of control. Gibberish, I know, but let me continue.

Back to the Spyder. G force sensors, wheel speed sensors, yaw sensors, so many sensors and electronics. How many sensors have to agree before autonomous braking is applied? The wheel sensors appear to be Hall switches, either to an amplitude measurement input or high speed counter. To be safe, it should probably be a circuit with a built in design safety, commonly called closed loop. Some kind of reference signal (12 VDC), that if lost, causes the safe shutdown (Limp Mode) without causing an unsafe action (Full Braking Application). What if the one sensor that causes this kind of action fails in such a mode that it thinks it's OK, no loss of the feedback loop? If it's a single point measurement system (Low SIL Rating), then you get this kind of situation.

I'd really like to know what they find.

Hmmm. Not sure what all that means but I can understand the idea you are suggesting. So... yes we need to know what is going on here.

[Peter Aawen]

Re these odd issues, especially the kept going straight ahead one (who's was that?), the VSS was developed by BOSCH and is waaay up there with the best in the world, so I don't think there's any significant inherent problems, altho the sensor connection/disconnection concerns may well be of concern wrt what's happened to a few ryders now

That said, as has been noted by some, the VSS is fed info/readings from a whole raftload of sensors & devices, incĺuding the DPS, so it can adjust it's response aimed at keeping the Spyder upright & not spinning; a response that can vary the rapidity & strength of steering input (but not reverse it nor completely cancel it out!) and that includes the application of one or more brake calipers a little or a lot, all in order to help you head in the direction the VSS 'sees' you trying to turn, and at the same time applying the brakes as & when necessary to mitigate any steering or other input that's potentially going to cause a flip or spin. The VSS takes notice of what you are doing on the brakes & throttle and also reads both the direction you're turning and the speed/pressure of that turning effort when it's 'deciding' what to do, and it can then either reduce or enhance that directional change depending on all the inputs, especially how hard & how quickly you've fed that steering change in, something that can be pretty handy at times!! If you haul very quickly and hard on one side of the bar, like you would if the car immediately in front of you literally stopped dead on the road just a few yards in front of you, the VSS can pretty much help you make an 'at speed' tiny radius 90 degree turn faster than a fighter jet in order to avoid, and without flipping or spinning too!! It really is that bloody good! :ohyea:

But knowing that, you also need to be aware that it will also react to those tiny 'involuntary' or possibly even 'subliminal' twitches that many people make in their steering control inputs, especially those coming off years of 2-wheeled riding with all the muscle memory that entails, just before they make the conciously controlled 'correct for a Spyder' steering reaction. These little twitches can happen well before your concious reaction kicks in & well (in terms of milli-seconds) before you can actually apply the necessary gross motor controlled movements required to avoid on a Spyder rather than those exactly wrong 2-wheel derived muscle memory twitches that the VSS may have already read and reacted to in the milli-seconds before you conciously evaded!! I think that these 'involuntary muscle memory twitches' might be at least partially to blame for the 'uneasiness & wandering' that many 'new to Spyders but not to 2 wheelers' type riders experience & some complain about, and I'm wondering if muscle memory driven 'reactive twitches' had any involvement in that 'going straight ahead' incident?!? The VSS can and will react to sudden steering input far faster than you can think, especially if the input is rapid & hard, just like it would be if you were shocked enough for muscle memory twitches to occur before you could conciously stop them happening and actively steer the right way! Maybe the involuntary twitch reaction that was the opposite of the concious minds avoidance reaction worked to confuse the VSS response or they pretty much cancelled each other out, at least to some degree.... :dontknow:

Still, I'm more inclined to think we should be searching for one (or more?) incorrectly fitted or disconnected sensors rather than hunting for an inherent issue with the VSS, and once we've ruled any dud connection or sensor issues out, I'd think it might be worth our time to look at how your actions/reactions may have been interpreted by the VSS to see if there's something in what you do/did that's causing a reaction that's not quite what you'd normally expect. I've been lucky enough to do some closed-road & skid-pan testing on this & was horrified to see how much & how quickly my Spyder responded to my involuntary 'muscle memory' reactions before I could conciously apply the neccesary Spyder control inputs needed. It's not something that's really going to have a great impact on anyone's daily ryding, probably won't even be an issue when we make a 'normal' evasion manoeuvre, but when it's an 'all out balls to the wall' type panic manoeuvre, those 'muscle memory' twitches that we've laboured so hard at developing over the last decades of 2-wheeled riding now need to be refined & in some cases, reversed to remain safe for Spyder Ryding! :shocked:

Over to you all?!! :thumbup:

[Freddy]

Well Pete, that nice long post of yours really clarifies the situation for treva I'm sure.

Short version: the machine does not handle as it should. :thumbup:

[treva]

Hi Peter, I could read all sorts of innuendos regarding your post. If and I repeat If it was aimed at me, I'll say it again, the lockup was not caused by any input [ ''muscle memory twitches'' ] from myself.... Treva

[treva]

Well Pete, that nice long post of yours really clarifies the situation for treva I'm sure.

Short version: the machine does not handle as it should. :thumbup:

Freddy, I couldn't agree more...Treva

[treva]

Finally after 5 + weeks in the dealers workshop, I picked up my RT today & rode it home. Took the long way & it performed as expected, ie; no problems.
Had a good chat to the service manager & tech before leaving. I know they did their very best to sort out the problem. BRP's involvement diagnosing the problem was beneficial. Time wise, the supply of parts has been the major problem.
The list below explains what they found and the action taken:-
1. Connected to BUDS & found fault codes C1290, P0500, P2806, C006C.
2. Performed the service action for each fault code.
3. Removed and replaced vehicle control module as directed by BRP.
4. Removed and replaced ignition switch as directed by BRP.
5. Removed and replaced wheel speed sensors as directed by BRP.
6. Performed 2 x road tests with different technicians. [ safety in numbers!!! ha ha ]

Although they didn't find the actual reason for the lockup, I'm pretty sure all bases have been covered. Time will tell. Now to convince the wife.:chat:

[Airborne]

Good luck to you Treva, on all counts!

[treva]

Good luck to you Treva, on all counts!

Thanks Airborne. So much going on electronically when on the move, complications can happen. Hopefully that is a thing of the past....treva.

[h0gr1der]

Mr. Treva,

Many thanks for following up on this. The replacement of the wheel sensors and VCM tells an interesting tale. So apparently if you lose contact with a wheel speed sensor, or the VCM thinks something is off (failure mode), the computer will take "appropriate" action. So much for redundant safety. Hopefully BRP has the real facts and implements a firmware upgrade to mitigate the possibility of this.

C1290, P0500, weren't listed in either my 2018 or 2019 manual. Anyone know what this is?

P2806, was listed as gear position sensor outside of parameters.

C006C, was listed as VCM error or failure.

[treva]

Mr. Treva,

Many thanks for following up on this. The replacement of the wheel sensors and VCM tells an interesting tale. So apparently if you lose contact with a wheel speed sensor, or the VCM thinks something is off (failure mode), the computer will take "appropriate" action. So much for redundant safety. Hopefully BRP has the real facts and implements a firmware upgrade to mitigate the possibility of this.

C1290, P0500, weren't listed in either my 2018 or 2019 manual. Anyone know what this is?

P2806, was listed as gear position sensor outside of parameters.

C006C, was listed as VCM error or failure.

Hello hogr1der, I feel it a sense of duty to let others know the outcome. I may be wrong but i think BRP in their wisdom threw a heap of parts at the dealer based on the list of codes. As you're stated i also hope BRP has the real facts..... I've just returned from a long ride by myself & it performed beautifully...treva

[Goldminer]

I have experienced the Nanny and VSS. I drive "spirted" on the mountain curves of the Sierra Nevada, when NOT leading a group. When I ride the bike I travel to work 45 miles through these mountains my commute puts any tail of the serpent ride to shame. I have lifted a front wheel repeatedly and felt the bike correct itself without locking up. I run EBC all around pads and rotors. I have had the rear wheel lose traction within a curve and had to drift to maintain control. Sometimes the VSS kicks in sometimes not. Drive within your bikes comfort zone and not while two up. The passenger NEVER will have the response time holding on, your in control. Check your rear brakes I mean really check them for any foreign objects, small rocks are the killer. I wore down the inside of my original stock rotor, scored it beyond repair and had to replace. It just made a small squeal when brakes were applied like it was dirty I ignored it for a 1000 miles before I saw the damage. I actually didn't see the damage as it was on the inside I ran my fingers over it and felt the deep scoring. In summary the bike wheels have NEVER locked up like you are describing get your bike checked out soon.

[Freddy]

He did - see reply 82.

[stmike 1800]

That is some scary sh@t . I do not know if i could or would ride a spyder again ,makes me think some of the parts came off a MAX 8 plane.

[h0gr1der]

That's what I'm trying to get a sense of, the actual risk involved with the Spyder. When I first boarded Spyderlovers, I read a post from a guy departing the Spyder world because of just his kind of incident. His bike locked up and slung him off, I think it hurt him, so he was quitting. I can't find that post again, my search mojo isn't great enough.

Mr. Treva's rear wheel locked up, and BRP replaced the VCM and wheel sensors. I feel losing one of the front wheel sensors, and having the opposite front wheel lock up at the wrong time is possibly the worst case scenario (loss of steering control), possibly dragging you into oncoming traffic or over the cliff in the mountains.

I also know that the risk of this is fairly low, because the Spyder world isn't screaming it out all over the Internet. But, at the same time, the consequences of a failure are so high it may be worth a more in-depth review by the NTSB or other agency to see how many actual cases of this are occurring. A certain automobile company tried to hide and deny their "unintended acceleration", even though this company had a major portion the incidents of unintended acceleration in the world slated to it, and at least one death attributed to it. Don't believe for a second that any major corporation won't deny, delay,defend for the bottom line.

My Spyder runs and drives fine, no problems here. But this scenario rides with me. Is there any corrosion building in a leaky wiring connection? Input point on a computer going bad? Wire rubbing where is shouldn't? Makes you wonder.

[Lew L]

I drive "spirted" on the mountain curves of the Sierra Nevada, when NOT leading a group. When I ride the bike I travel to work 45 miles through these mountains my commute puts any tail of the serpent ride to shame.
Say Goldminer,

I've been riding the Sierra passes for for a long time on both 2 and 3 wheels. Which roads do you speak of that put the " tail of the dragon " to shame?????? Hwy's 4 and 108 come to mind. Hwy's 49 and 431 ( I live on Mt. Rose Highway) maybe. Even 341 and 6 Mile canyon in the Carson range. These roads that are in our backyards may compare to the "Dragon" but they certainly don't put it to shame?????
In response to the OP--- Nanny has intervened plenty of times but NEVER locked the brakes.

And yes I've ridden the " Dragon " in No. Carolina but on 2 wheels. Great fun

Lew L