Dealer dropped Can-Am line because of Ryker?

[UtahPete]

I went to schedule a service appointment at my local dealer recently and learned they are no longer an authorized service center for Can-Am. Apparently they dropped the entire line rather than be forced into the costs involved in selling and supporting Rykers. For them, Spyders were already a money loser and the Ryker requirements were just a bridge too far.

[guzzihack]

Had my RT service Friday at Tempo Marine in E Moline IL. (Cold windy ryde) They also said they aren't going to carry Rykers. Don't know if it's a BRP requirement to carry the franchise.
Coke

[Fire34]

Funny stopped by our local shop o pick up a motorcycle map of the area he still does service on spyders not any on their showroom floor, but have seen rykers leaving on the frontage road. I would venture to guess and I would also just order them as they are purchased. just guessing
Dave

[BajaRon]

Some dealerships promote the Spyder/Ryker line and do very well. Other dealers just park them in a corner of the show room and wait for them to sell. They tend to gather dust and end up being sold at a big discount the next year. Some dealerships make all they need to make on other vehicles. They just don't want to put the effort into the Spyder/Ryker line.

I live in Greeneville, TN. A pretty small town. Our local dealership has sold I think 10 Rykers since December. And there are 3 other Spyder/Ryker dealerships within 60 miles of us. But these dealerships go out of their way to promote the product.

[PW2013STL]

Had my RT service Friday at Tempo Marine in E Moline IL. (Cold windy ryde) They also said they aren't going to carry Rykers. Don't know if it's a BRP requirement to carry the franchise.
Coke

My dealer told me that it was a requirement to carry the Ryker in order to remain a dealer. They planned to carry them, but their issue was how many BRP told them that they had to order. They wanted to order fewer Rykers and more Spyders, but BRP said no that BRP's marketing decided how many.

[ARtraveler]

I went to schedule a service appointment at my local dealer recently and learned they are no longer an authorized service center for Can-Am. Apparently they dropped the entire line rather than be forced into the costs involved in selling and supporting Rykers. For them, Spyders were already a money loser and the Ryker requirements were just a bridge too far.

Welcome to the club. That is exactly what the only Alaska dealer has done. And Ryker was his main reason.

[cptjam]

Which dealer, Pete?

[UtahPete]

Which dealer, Pete?

It's the one in Kamas, UT where I purchased the Platinum bike. Fortunately I found this out before taking the bike back north for the summer.

It started throwing VSS code and the Limp Home mode came on the last 100 miles of our return trip from Sierra Vista. Very ironic because Jane's bike was doing the same on the way to Sierra Vista so we had Sierra Cycles look into it. Stuck brake position switch was the diagnosis. I had my bike serviced (oil change and brake service) while there, but it wasn't throwing the code then of course.

If it's a warranty issue, I need an authorized dealer check it out. I presently have an appt at MotoZoo in St. George for tomorrow.

[cptjam]

Thanks.

[AY4B]

Last time I was at my local dealer here in Greenville, they only had RT's and Ryker's on the floor. no F3's

[Deanna777]

Last week when I picked up my spyder(out of hibernation) at my dealership they had 2 Rykers on the sales floor. And had sold several.

1 of them had a "Sold" tag on it.

Deanna

[Bob Denman]

Look at it this way: they couldn't have been much of a Dealer; if they couldn't make money on Spyders... :opps:

[canamjhb]

I had one Service Manager at a Can-Am dealer tell me he "hates Spyders" Even though they are a dealer, he wished they weren't. There's a positive attitude for you..... I won't name the dealer because the Manager could have just been having a bad day. But, it is a dealership that I will not Ride into Now. I guess some dealers with multiple lines find dealing with BRP to be too onerous to maintain a good relationship. Bad for customers and BRP..... Jim

[UtahPete]

They are an excellent dealer actually. It's just that the local market doesn't support the sales numbers for trikes or bikes that Can-Am requires

[UtahPete]

I had one Service Manager at a Can-Am dealer tell me he "hates Spyders" Even though they are a dealer, he wished they weren't. There's a positive attitude for you..... I won't name the dealer because the Manager could have just been having a bad day. But, it is a dealership that I will not Ride into Now. I guess some dealers with multiple lines find dealing with BRP to be too onerous to maintain a good relationship. Bad for customers and BRP..... Jim

Spyders and Rykers should be sold and serviced by independent motorcycle dealerships, like Sierra Cycles.

[Tazzel]

Lots of dealerships are having financial problems and it has nothing to do with Spyders. Several Yamaha and Harley dealerships have closed in my area and the biggest spyder dealer in my area has merged with a Yamaha dealership so they can both stay afloat. People just don't have the money anymore for luxury items. That being said the Spyder dealer has sold all the Rykers and have others on back order

[Realtor]

how can a dealership not make money selling motorcycles and spyders that cost as much as cars do? Our HD dealership had a "kick a$$ weekend" I went several times, the new bikes are in the 30-40K range, the CVO's more than that.... Heck we spent 27K on our Spyder. whats the markup on these things? good lord....

[AFBlue]

I went to Daytona this past weekend for vacation and thought I'd stop by the Can Am dealership thinking it would probably be a big dealership being Daytona and all. I was wrong. It was no bigger than our Panama City dealership. They had one F3 and one RT in the new orange color which by the way looks awesome in person. They also had a couple Rykers. Now the Harley dealership was huge.

[bhern]

how can a dealership not make money selling motorcycles and spyders that cost as much as cars do? Our HD dealership had a "kick a$$ weekend" I went several times, the new bikes are in the 30-40K range, the CVO's more than that.... Heck we spent 27K on our Spyder. whats the markup on these things? good lord....

You kind of answered your own question, didn't you? I have absolutely zero history as a motorcycle rider or buyer before getting my Spyder in 2017, but I've got to believe that many people think of motorcycles as a *cheaper* alternative to a/another car. When they find out they're not...

Dealers can obviously make money selling them to the remaining segment -- but not as many of them.

[Realtor]

You kind of answered your own question, didn't you? I have absolutely zero history as a motorcycle rider or buyer before getting my Spyder in 2017, but I've got to believe that many people think of motorcycles as a *cheaper* alternative to a/another car. When they find out they're not...

Dealers can obviously make money selling them to the remaining segment -- but not as many of them.

there a truck load of new bikes on the road around here. , I'm seeing more spyders on the road now, than I ever have. Saw 3 just today. The dealers must be doing good in this neck of the woods...

[mcalva]

The dealer for Catalonia (Spain) is in the coast. In fact is in a leisure port.
Their main bussiness are the sea doo's and boat's motor but they sell and
service Spyders and Rykers. In fact I think they are the dealer that sells
the most in Spain.
We have very few points that provide workshop service in the country and
if we need to visit the workshop during a trip, depending on where you are,
we have to make large trips.

[Musashi]

When I was in Suncoast Motor Sports (Clearwater, FL) a couple months ago, they had about a half dozen new Rykers, 0 new and 1 used Spyders, and 0 F3s. I wanted to test drive an F3 while my Spyder was in the shop for maintenance. No joy. They did have a ton of SeaDoo's. ;) You have to look at the entire BRP line-up and the geographical market of a dealership to understand why decisions are made. Many mfg's approach dealer agreements as a one size fits all, take it or leave it proposition, because some dumb-ass with an MBA thinks life works that way. This is true across many types of retail in the recreation sector. It usually happens with new product intros and the mfg tries to force their dealers to buy tons of the "new" thing without regard to the dealer's unique customer base, sales records, local differences in demand, available inventory space, or even existing inventory. I've seen brands CRASH because of this several times in fishing tackle, ATVs, RVs, and firearms. DUMB!

[blacklightning]

how can a dealership not make money selling motorcycles and spyders that cost as much as cars do? Our HD dealership had a "kick a$$ weekend" I went several times, the new bikes are in the 30-40K range, the CVO's more than that.... Heck we spent 27K on our Spyder. whats the markup on these things? good lord....
The last part of your statement is the question that I have also. "What's the markup on these things?" I am certain that the markup must be large. But I know from experience that you can save 25-30% off the sticker price on a spyder by waiting until the next years models are released. In 2014, I bought a $22,950 spyder for $17,500. And in 2017 I bought a $26,000 spyder for $20,500. So, with that being said, I would also like to know what the cost is on these things. I have no problem letting someone else have the first bike on the block, especially when I can ride the same bike, 6 months later, and save $5-6k.

[UtahPete]

It's the one in Kamas, UT where I purchased the Platinum bike. Fortunately I found this out before taking the bike back north for the summer.

It started throwing VSS code and the Limp Home mode came on the last 100 miles of our return trip from Sierra Vista. Very ironic because Jane's bike was doing the same on the way to Sierra Vista so we had Sierra Cycles look into it. Stuck brake position switch was the diagnosis. I had my bike serviced (oil change and brake service) while there, but it wasn't throwing the code then of course.

If it's a warranty issue, I need an authorized dealer check it out. I presently have an appt at MotoZoo in St. George for tomorrow.

Well, I took the RT down to MotoZoo in St. George today to have them check on the codes. They told me to leave the bike for a few days until they could get to it. They are crazy busy there, but not with Spyders; their main business is ATVs and the new line of jeep-like vehicles from Roxor. Their small parking lot was jammed with inventory and mostly ATV's in for service. I had zero confidence in them doing things to my satisfaction so brought the bike back to figure out my next move.

Joe Meyer, you have the BUDS system; any chance you can check it out for me?

[LifeLongRider]

Spyders and Rykers should be sold and serviced by independent motorcycle dealerships, like Sierra Cycles.

:2thumbs: Thumbs up for Sierra Cycles. Bought my B.E.S.T. extended warranty from them. Great to deal with.

[UtahPete]

:2thumbs: Thumbs up for Sierra Cycles. Bought my B.E.S.T. extended warranty from them. Great to deal with.

Yes, I did also. Can't beat their deal on extended warranty anywhere else I've found.

[KyBill]

Here in Ky I lived in Lexington 12 years (2nd biggest city) and saw Can Am cycles maybe 3 times. Its a Harley market with a few Indians and a smattering of jap bikes. I think the Can Am dealer in Lexington also sells Polaris and Indians.

That said, I now live an hour into eastern Ky and I have seen 3 Can Am ( but they were all test rides I arranged). This month I’m listing the Harley (its a great bike but I can no longer handle 2 wheels and cant afford a triglide or that stripped down 25k three wheeler trike Harley introduced a few years back. No regrets, I really like the Ryker 900, the F3 base model, and I’m pretty sure I’ll love the Ryker Rally (theoretically my top pick to win the deal of the three mentioned but I havent seen it in person. I promised my wife she can visit our lical dealer to look at the Ryker and the F3 with me before I commit so it may be 2-3 weeks before I’m riding if I go with the Rally because the dealer doesnt have it in stock. They do however keep a 900 Ryker and a 1330 F3 in stock.

Why the Ryker Rally? Well its already got the bump skid, beefed up suspension, and the “rally mode” software. To me, the cons are that big metal tail behind the rider seat seat, because I have mobility issues and it may be difficult to throw my leg over that extra height. Whereas the normal Ryker single seat works fine.

Why would I consider going F3? Bigger engine pulls well, its a tad higher than the Ryker but oh so plush, and if there’s a slight chance the wife will join 2up 1+ times a month she’d be most comfortable on the F3.

Oh yeah, I need a way to mount my tall walking stick to whatever bike I choose. It breaks down into multiple 17-19” threaded lengths so maybe fits in F3 trunk or maybe needs an external holder (pvc pipe?) attached to bars or alongside the passenger seat pan?

Any input is appreciated. I guess another option would be the 900 Rhyker with upgraded front and rear suspension but that might come out more expensive than the Rally but lacking the Rally mode software.

[UtahPete]

KyBill, please start your own thread on the Ryker forum. Your post is completely off topic.

[KyBill]

I read the topic to be that dealers are dropping Can Am products due to perceived lack of profitability around certain product lines, no? Which can cause people to not purchase Can Am due to lack of product or lack of service support options.

So my perspective is that in Ky the products are virtually non existent due to market dominance by other brands. But that for myself I still plan to purchase one of the Can Am models discussed, and why. And added some of my own thoughts to the decision making process.

Not sure how having an opinion qualifies as completely off topic. However if the rigidity of these forums is that inflexible, no problem. I’ve no need to repost.

[r1100rider]

how can a dealership not make money selling motorcycles and spyders that cost as much as cars do? Our HD dealership had a "kick a$$ weekend" I went several times, the new bikes are in the 30-40K range, the CVO's more than that.... Heck we spent 27K on our Spyder. whats the markup on these things? good lord....as business owner myself I can tell you that the average person has no clue as to the high cost of being a business owner ,as a business you get the special commercial rate ,my power bill for my store is double for the same KW usage as my home same for phone ,go buy a lifetime garrenteed shock for my PU truck sorry 90 days for commercial,tags for my delivery truck 1 year 600 ,the state wants more money for public transportation new tax adding 15% to the state payroll withholding,what do you think a simple add in a newspaper cost , my vehicle has to have a 1,000,000 dollar insurance policy on it ,yellow page in just one book $400 a month because they have it broke into several categories service,new sales,used sale,I could go on and on businesses have a big target on there back that the political establishment and the public see as an ATM lots of owners out there that in the end of the day don't make any more than the guy punching a time clock and he has to think about his business 24/7

[BajaRon]

as business owner myself I can tell you that the average person has no clue as to the high cost of being a business owner ,as a business you get the special commercial rate ,my power bill for my store is double for the same KW usage as my home same for phone ,go buy a lifetime garrenteed shock for my PU truck sorry 90 days for commercial,tags for my delivery truck 1 year 600 ,the state wants more money for public transportation new tax adding 15% to the state payroll withholding,what do you think a simple add in a newspaper cost , my vehicle has to have a 1,000,000 dollar insurance policy on it ,yellow page in just one book $400 a month because they have it broke into several categories service,new sales,used sale,I could go on and on businesses have a big target on there back that the political establishment and the public see as an ATM lots of owners out there that in the end of the day don't make any more than the guy punching a time clock and he has to think about his business 24/7

At the risk of being off topic. I agree. Businesses are increasingly being seen as the 'Cash Cow' for government, utility, etc., funding. And the average citizen is understandably all for increasing taxes and fees on the rich, business fat cats. But this may be due to a grave misunderstanding of what actually is happening.

It's easy to look at a product and figure it costs $10.00 to make, the seller is charging $50.00 for it, do the math and that's $40.00 in the seller's pocket. I'm not saying some products are not over priced. But there are a lot of (and increasingly expensive) overhead costs that the buyer may not be taking into account.

Still, the biggest myth in all of this is the widely held belief that businesses pay taxes, licensing fees, utility bills, employee's salaries, liability insurance, etc. When the fact is, this has never been true. Every business is simply the middle man who collects these monies from the buyer and hands it over to all the outstretched hands wanting their piece of the pie. The only cash that stops with the seller is what's left after everyone else gets theirs. If the amount that stays with the business is not enough. That business ceases to exist.

So when you support a minimum wage increase, a tax increase on business, etc., you should know that you are simply asking to pay more for the same product and or service that you used to get for less.

This may not have direct impact on who does or does not carry the Ryker/Spyder line of products. But it is part of the equation of overall profit and expense which goes into the final decision.

[UtahPete]

At the risk of being off topic. I agree. Businesses are increasingly being seen as the 'Cash Cow' for government, utility, etc., funding. And the average citizen is understandably all for increasing taxes and fees on the rich, business fat cats. But this may be due to a grave misunderstanding of what actually is happening.

It's easy to look at a product and figure it costs $10.00 to make, the seller is charging $50.00 for it, do the math and that's $40.00 in the seller's pocket. I'm not saying some products are not over priced. But there are a lot (and increasingly expensive) overhead costs that the buyer may not be taking into account.

Still, the biggest myth in all of this is the widely held belief that businesses pay taxes, licensing fees, utility bills, employee's salaries, liability insurance, etc. When the fact is, this has never been true. Every business is simply the middle man who collects these monies from the buyer and hands it over to all the outstretched hands wanting their piece of the pie. The only cash that stops with the seller is what's left after everyone else gets theirs. If the amount that stays with the business is not enough. That business ceases to exist.

So when you support a minimum wage increase, a tax increase on business, etc., you should know that you are simply asking to pay more for the same product and or service that you used to get for less.

This may not have direct impact on who does or does not carry the Ryker/Spyder line of products. But it is part of the equation of overall profit and expense which goes into the final decision.

Well said. And, in my opinion not off topic. Each business has to make self-serving decisions if it is to succeed in the long run. Dealers who drop the Can-Am line because of the onerous requirements to carry the entire line whether or not their local market can support the 3-wheeler products is making a business decision, pure and simple. No need to disparage them for it.

[Rob Rodriguez]

Just to add some thought. The dealer didn't drop The Can-Am line because of the Ryker. The dealer dropped Can-Am because of BRP business practices. This isn't anything new for BRP. Many (I can think of 4 near me) Ski-Doo dealers have either stopped selling Ski-Doo or closed up shop because they can't survive the way BRP treats them. Always pushing more product on them than they can sell, then requiring them to pay finance charges on the unsold product. Not to mention the fees for the parts ordering system and the displays and having to meet certain criteria with the dealership. For small dealers its impossible for them to cover all the costs no matter how good of a dealer they are. We lost an excellent Ski-Doo service dealer near me for these reasons. The 50-70 or so sleds he was selling every winter wasn't enough for BRP. He had to be in the 100 or more range. It was either take that much product or stop selling the line all together. He chose to just stop selling...less stress and headaches that way. It means customers like me have to travel about 90 minutes one way to get to a decent Ski-Doo dealer. That same dealer is my Spyder dealer. They are a good dealer but again they are small and I wouldn't be surprised if they too cease to exist in a few years because they can't meet the requirements and be profitable.

[johnny canuck]

Spoke to a BRP dealer near London, Ont., Canada last year. Going out of Spyder line entirely. Told me that BRP was "forcing" him to take X number of spiders in order to maintain dealership. Doesn't mater if he can only sell X no. per year. Minimum amount required in stock to keep dealership.

[Realtor]

as business owner myself I can tell you that the average person has no clue as to the high cost of being a business owner ,as a business you get the special commercial rate ,my power bill for my store is double for the same KW usage as my home same for phone ,go buy a lifetime garrenteed shock for my PU truck sorry 90 days for commercial,tags for my delivery truck 1 year 600 ,the state wants more money for public transportation new tax adding 15% to the state payroll withholding,what do you think a simple add in a newspaper cost , my vehicle has to have a 1,000,000 dollar insurance policy on it ,yellow page in just one book $400 a month because they have it broke into several categories service,new sales,used sale,I could go on and on businesses have a big target on there back that the political establishment and the public see as an ATM lots of owners out there that in the end of the day don't make any more than the guy punching a time clock and he has to think about his business 24/7

yeah, I own and operate 2 businesses myself, if you want to compare, My charter boat is pretty $$$$$ to operate and maintain, not to mention the equipment that gets dropped overboard on a regular basis, then there's the insurances... blah, blah... lol anyways, not sure how we got into comparing business expenses, but my point is if our HD shop is selling bikes in the 30K or more range, there is a markup on these things just like car dealerships.... these things aren't cheap.... There's plenty of new bikes on the road,there's plenty of new pickups on the road... they all have markups.. to be honest, I'm stunned the cost of a new pickup truck, (bought one in 2016...) and I still cant truly justify the money I spent on the spyder, but it is fun.... i hope we arent getting to far off topic... i do find it interesting, I seem to be seeing more spyders around than I did several years ago, so there's a few being bought and sold.... i think it stinks, BRP is forcing these dealerships to carry a larger inventory that they can sell... that will lead to disaster.. IMO

[r1100rider]

yeah, I own and operate 2 businesses myself, if you want to compare, My charter boat is pretty $$$$$ to operate and maintain, not to mention the equipment that gets dropped overboard on a regular basis, then there's the insurances... blah, blah... lol anyways, not sure how we got into comparing business expenses, but my point is if our HD shop is selling bikes in the 30K or more range, there is a markup on these things just like car dealerships.... these things aren't cheap.... There's plenty of new bikes on the road,there's plenty of new pickups on the road... they all have markups.. to be honest, I'm stunned the cost of a new pickup truck, (bought one in 2016...) and I still cant truly justify the money I spent on the spyder, but it is fun.... i hope we arent getting to far off topic... i do find it interesting, I seem to be seeing more spyders around than I did several years ago, so there's a few being bought and sold.... i think it stinks, BRP is forcing these dealerships to carry a larger inventory that they can sell... that will lead to disaster.. IMO
You own a business so you do understand I was was just wanting to make the point that the public doesn't always understand if the HD store buys a bike for 25k and sells it for 30k (I don't proclaim to know what they pay) people tend to think that the owner just made 5k the guy behind the parts counter to take home 50k will cost the owner 75 to 100k after the s/s match comp payroll taxes and all the other things ,that being said BRP is getting to big for there britches if they think that regular dealers should have to jump new hoops to sell rykers they should go the other way and any side by side ,ski Doo or atv dealer in there network should have access to the full line that way they would have more to keep going year around

[Kiry]

Stopped by Lifestyles Honda in Mt Vernon last month. They had a great selection of various Spyders and a couple of Rykers. Those folks where enjoying talking the shop while we were there. It's about a hour drive for me to get to them, I purhcased my F3 from them and I find them the best around for servicing my Spyder.

They have a pretty good selection of Can-am items, and switch out between summer and winter toys.

I guess....maybe it depends on how you do it.

[pegasus1300]

Pete I have had good luck with High Adventure in Salt Lake.

[UtahPete]

Pete I have had good luck with High Adventure in Salt Lake.

Good to know. Thanks

[JAS POWER]

I think OEM companies in the power sports industry from time to time tend to "stick" the dealers with too much product. In my area in WI I can say in the last 20 years I know Arctic Cat has done this, and Polaris (many dealerships have closed that had those brands). More than likely the OEM's reason for it has to do with pleasing the stock holders with some huge numbers.

As far as UtahPetes dealership, UtahPete stated that the Ryker line was just to much for them to handle, and they decided to just drop the line entirely. I think with the Ryker having a relatively low cost MSRP the profit margins aren't that high. They are planning on volume of sales to get the numbers they want / need. This is why dealers have to take a pretty big number of them to stay being a Spyder/Ryker dealer. I could easily see the smaller dealerships not willing to take the gamble unfortunately. I could easily be wrong with my thinking coarse.

It's sad that OEM's don't let certain dealerships in smaller areas be able to take less of an order due to their demographic area of that dealership. I think UtahPete said somewhere in this thread that their area couldn't support the numbers BRP was pushing on them. They should know more on that than BRP itself. Unfortunately thats where us SMALL businesses get crushed by corporate our way or the highway kind of thinking.

[ntotrr]

Some dealerships promote the Spyder/Ryker line and do very well. Other dealers just park them in a corner of the show room and wait for them to sell. They tend to gather dust and end up being sold at a big discount the next year. Some dealerships make all they need to make on other vehicles. They just don't want to put the effort into the Spyder/Ryker line.

I live in Greeneville, TN. A pretty small town. Our local dealership has sold I think 10 Rykers since December. And there are 3 other Spyder/Ryker dealerships within 60 miles of us. But these dealerships go out of their way to promote the product.

Kingsport resident here. I went to the dealer in Greenville, they have almost nothing in stock as far as RTs go and weren't willing to deal on the price. The dealer in Elizabethton has a good supply but also weren't willing to deal. I wound up putting a deposit down on a 2018 RT Limited with iMotorsports in Illinois for over $3,000 less than the local dealers here. That's a lot of cash to leave on the table. what dealer would you recommend for service?

[BajaRon]

Kingsport resident here. I went to the dealer in Greenville, they have almost nothing in stock as far as RTs go and weren't willing to deal on the price. The dealer in Elizabethton has a good supply but also weren't willing to deal. I wound up putting a deposit down on a 2018 RT Limited with iMotorsports in Illinois for over $3,000 less than the local dealers here. That's a lot of cash to leave on the table. what dealer would you recommend for service?

I am glad you ended up with what you wanted at a good price. The dealership in Greeneville is pretty stripped at times. They get Spyders/Rykers in and they sell. But it isn't a large dealership so I don't think they can carry a large number at any one time. 3 wheels take up a lot more room than 2. And this is more of a 4-wheeler or side-by-side area.

Since you're closer to the Elizabethton dealership I would definitely start there. I've always had good luck with them. But don't rely completely on my recommendation (not that I think you would). We, as the consumer, always need to do our due diligence as well.

Congratulations on finding a Great Ride!

[davehirst]

as business owner myself I can tell you that the average person has no clue as to the high cost of being a business owner ,as a business you get the special commercial rate ,my power bill for my store is double for the same KW usage as my home same for phone ,go buy a lifetime garrenteed shock for my PU truck sorry 90 days for commercial,tags for my delivery truck 1 year 600 ,the state wants more money for public transportation new tax adding 15% to the state payroll withholding,what do you think a simple add in a newspaper cost , my vehicle has to have a 1,000,000 dollar insurance policy on it ,yellow page in just one book $400 a month because they have it broke into several categories service,new sales,used sale,I could go on and on businesses have a big target on there back that the political establishment and the public see as an ATM lots of owners out there that in the end of the day don't make any more than the guy punching a time clock and he has to think about his business 24/7

I agree. I have been in business for over 50 years and I know what you are saying to be true. Every day it seems someone is coming in to get a donation for some good cause, advertising is ridiculous expensive and power, phone cable all cost more than my home.

[Joe T.]

I agree. I have been in business for over 50 years and I know what you are saying to be true. Every day it seems someone is coming in to get a donation for some good cause, advertising is ridiculous expensive and power, phone cable all cost more than my home.

I find this interesting. I lived in the LA area for 23 years. I always worked for a large aerospace/defense contractor.

We moved to Wichita, KS in August 2008. When I retired, I decided to start a small business. It is incredible what my property taxes are. Utilities are more than my home, and for the last year I haven't been at my shop for most of the year!! Sits idle!!

Anyway, I was at Menards, a big box home improvement center here in Wichita, and I was talking to one of the employees. He said he owned a small business for a number of years. But, it got to the point that he couldn't make a profit for all of the city/county/state/fed expenses. So, he shut the business down and went to work for Menards.

I think to be a small business person today, yo have to have a very small 'footprint.' Work out of your home. Be a termite sprayer, accountant, etc.

Joe T.