Regular or premium, that is the question???

[RykerUSA]

The owner's manual on page 37 recommends regular unladed gasoline, octane rating 87. But then goes on to say, for optimal performance, use premium unleaded gasoline octane 91.

What is "optimal performance" and is it worth 30% more in fuel cost?

Inquiring minds need to know.

Not that it makes a difference, but I have a 900 Rally edition

[JS3535]

30% wow! That’s a bunch of money.....wait a second. Your Ryker holds 5 gallons. 91 is usually $0.20 more per gallon than 87. So thats a whole whopping $1.00 per fill up more. So if you fill up everyday with 91 that’s $365 per year. If you can’t afford that then you shouldn’t of bought the bike. Run 91.

[RykerUSA]

At least around here it is 60 to 70 cents per gal. more for premium than regular. And that comes to roughly $3 per tank which is the equivalent to a medium cherry dipped cone at Dairy Queen which I tried to do about every tank.

[RykerUSA]

Premium differential in central Indiana

[BajaRon]

The owner's manual on page 37 recommends regular unladed gasoline, octane rating 87. But then goes on to say, for optimal performance, use premium unleaded gasoline octane 91.

What is "optimal performance" and is it worth 30% more in fuel cost?

Inquiring minds need to know.

Not that it makes a difference, but I have a 900 Rally edition

One of the eternal questions with answers across the board. Right up there with oil and tires.

You can run regular in all Spyders. This is because the ECU will compensate for the low octane by retarding your ignition timing. This reduces power and fuel mileage. The ECU is more likely to kick in during warmer temperatures or higher speeds where more cylinder temperature is created. This is the whole point. The computer attempts to keep cylinder temperatures within a certain heat range. This is a seamless process and you will not notice anything, seat of the pants. This is also why it is so important to apply thermal paste (not anti-seize) to your spark plug threads.

What is 'Optimal' for some is lower fuel costs regardless of the consequences. For others, 'Optimal' is getting the best performance and mileage possible. Many will say they notice no difference in either parameters with either fuel. But I did a mileage test from East Tennessee to California and back. Over 6,000 miles total. I was very careful in my data collection and fueling. I found that I consistently got between 2&4 mpg better with premium than with regular. That is at least a 10% improvement in mileage. At $3.00 a gallon that is a $0.30 per gallon savings.

I found that Mid grade made no significant difference over regular fuel. Granted, this was all done in warm to hot weather conditions. And I threw out the high altitude runs where low octane is all you can get because it didn't really apply. But I feel it was about as scientific as possible, with a great number of fill-ups, etc.

[RykerUSA]

BahaRon,

That's the answer I was looking for. You know your stuff. Thanks!

[Easy Rider]

What is "optimal performance" and is it worth 30% more in fuel cost?


Only YOU can decide for YOU.

With the lower octane fuel, if pushed hard at maximum timing advance and there is a little ping, the timing will be reduced along with peak performance.

It is also theoretically possible to have "pre-detonation" (compression knock) occur with the lower octane and the ECU can NOT compensate for that. Who knows if that will ever happen; I think not too likely but if it DOES engine damage can occur.

I use premium.......because the extra dollar per tankful won't break my budget.

[Easy Rider]

At least around here it is 60 to 70 cents per gal. more for premium than regular..

Your "premium" must be ethanol free or REALLY high octane.
I quite assure you that in most places the difference isn't NEAR that much.
+.20 for mid-grade and + another .20 for premium is very common.

[Chupaca]

Guess it really boils down to you can use either one or from 87 on up. Was a time when they said Hi-test only. I find that a buck or a buck fifty per tank ful is a small price to pay for a fuel with better additives added though you then have to choose what brand. But I have never measured the difference in mpg as I rather ryde than spend time calculating .... :thumbup:

[Tango]

Not using premium in my F3L. I use 89 octane whole gas. :2thumbs: Tom :spyder:

[vindex1963]

I know in bikes like my 2015 Victory Cross Country with 9.4:1 compression (owners manual recommends high octane) they will have a carbon buildup problem when running high octane gas because of the slow burn gas, that's not a problem with Spyders?

So my 2012 RT has knock sensors and if I run high octane it will run differently? My 2012 Spyder has a compression ratio of 12.2:1, my 2015 Suzuki V-Strom has a compression ratio of 11.2:1 and they recommend low octane. I suppose the weight they are pulling also factor in.

Price per gallon isn't a factor what best for the motor is.

[WisconsinDavid]

Throw into the mix in the north the winter and summer blends... and the different mpg that results from them. Bring back the good ol days of regular and premium gasoline (and not ethanol blends). I'll be travelling in Canada in June and put in higher octane where it is available out in the boonies.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

The owner's manual on page 37 recommends regular unladed gasoline, octane rating 87. But then goes on to say, for optimal performance, use premium unleaded gasoline octane 91.

What is "optimal performance" and is it worth 30% more in fuel cost?

Inquiring minds need to know.

Not that it makes a difference, but I have a 900 Rally edition

I am a sinner :gaah::roflblack: …….. I have a 14 RT … except for " testing the performance ", I have 42,000 + happy miles using regular 87 Oct. mostly with Ethyl :lecturef_smilie: because that's what is available …. we've been told there is a performance penalty …. if so I don't notice it ….. When I get my ECU done I will see if 89 works ……my buddy who is a master mechanic and campaigned a Drag bike with His brother tested the Knock system and said this " If He was towing a max loaded trailer with a very FAT chick in the Smokies ( not likely :roflblack:) He would use 89 Oct., but otherwise NO ", He added Not DOWN SHIFTING when needed is a bigger issue ….. good luck …. Mike :ohyea:

[SpyderAnn01]

The one thing I know for sure is the only thing your Spyder/Ryker won’t run on is NO gas. I run mine on mid grade if the price of premium is significantly higher than regular and I don’t notice any reduction in mpg or performance.

[Easy Rider]

they will have a carbon buildup problem when running high octane gas because of the slow burn gas, that's not a problem with Spyders?


No. Not a problem with ANY modern engine.
Sounds like another Internet myth to me.

What exactly makes you think that is true........other than "some guy said" ??

Some other guy said that higher octane burns hotter......so there will be less carbon buildup. ;)

[ARtraveler]

For years, (since 2008) I always burned the highest octane in my five spyders. Here (Alaska), there is no ethanol. The three grades are 10 cents apart. 2.90, 3,00, 3.10. etc. Except for Shell which has 20 cent per grade increments.

A couple years back, I decided to go to basic 87 grade. I have never looked back. There has been no change in mileage, or performance that I notice. I am feeling that I spent a lot of money on the octane upgrade and did not need to. :yes:

[vindex1963]

No. Not a problem with ANY modern engine.
Sounds like another Internet myth to me.

What exactly makes you think that is true........other than "some guy said" ??

Some other guy said that higher octane burns hotter......so there will be less carbon buildup. ;)

Kevin Cross a well credited Victory builder has commented on the carbon buildup inside the combustion chamber on Victory's what have ran high octane. He said it becomes so severe that an engine that would normally run it's entire life on 87 now requires 91 because of the carbon.

"The 92" recommended was 89, and they run quite happily on 87. All using premium does is build up carbon, and create issue down the road. It's not about money. It's about keeping a great running engine...running great.
For all you old guys that think premium means better. Think about the last time you saw an ad extolling the benefits of it. The FTC made the fuel companies remove all the false and misleading ads in the early 90's, but the residual memory still surfaces. If you do not NEED it. Then it is BAD for your engine "

Where in my statement did you read "some guy said"? Nice try.

[Easy Rider]

Where in my statement did you read "some guy said"? Nice try.
It was an assumption.......that seems to be pretty much true......since your reference is only one person.
Versus what the manufacturer says, both with the Victory and the Spyder.
What is a "Victory builder" ??

[vindex1963]

It was an assumption.......that seems to be pretty much true......since your reference is only one person.
Versus what the manufacturer says, both with the Victory and the Spyder.
What is a "Victory builder" ??

Kevin, Rylan and Lloyd are the tops on fixing, rebuilding and hot rodding Victory motorcycles. Victory builder is someone that does the builds or completes the projects.

[McRuss]

Your "premium" must be ethanol free or REALLY high octane.
I quite assure you that in most places the difference isn't NEAR that much.
+.20 for mid-grade and + another .20 for premium is very common.

Using 'new math', I believe "your" difference between Regular and Premium would be .40 or $2.00 per tank. I personally believe running premium in a vehicle 'designed' to run on regular (says so in the manual....) is a waste of money. But as they say, YMMV (so true.) I've run regular in my 'high performance' Yamaha FJR1300 for 91,000 miles and consistently get anywhere from 40 to 50+ mpg. Good enough for me.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

It was an assumption.......that seems to be pretty much true......since your reference is only one person.
Versus what the manufacturer says, both with the Victory and the Spyder.
What is a "Victory builder" ??

" what the manufacturer says " ie. BRP can be deceiving ...remember BRP says - if you have a code or any issue - IMMEDIATELY bring it to the nearest Dealer ( preferably by tow truck ) :roflblack::roflblack: …...…… I have NEVER done that …….. Mike :ohyea:

[Easy Rider]

Kevin, Rylan and Lloyd are the tops on fixing, rebuilding and hot rodding Victory motorcycles. Victory builder is someone that does the builds or completes the projects.

Carbon accumulation inside a combustion chamber......or exhaust ports......is most often due to the tiny bit of oil that leaks past the rings.
It is almost NEVER due to incomplete fuel burn, unless the engine has been messed with to make the mixture richer than designed.

[Aufgeblassen47]

I had a Polaris Slingshot for a year. It too called for PREMIUM. Premium is WAY overpriced, IMHO. It used to be 20 cents/gallon over regular, with mid grade 10 cents higher.

Anywho, I used premium until it was broken in. Then I tried a full tankful of mid grade. Ran fine w/o knocking or pinging under hard acceleration (something I don't normally do anyways). Then I tried a full tankful of regular. It still ran fine w/o knocking or pinging under hard acceleration.

My MPG did not drop going to regular either.

[RykerUSA]

Yesterday, I ran a tank of ethanol free premium and found that I did get slightly improved mileage per gallon ( 2 miles per gal.); But in no way enough added miles to justify the cost of premium.

I will probly use premium in the heat of summer for long interstate travel - but otherwise it is regular for me.

[Aufgeblassen47]

Yesterday, I ran a tank of ethanol free premium and found that I did get slightly improved mileage per gallon ( 2 miles per gal.); But in no way enough added miles to justify the cost of premium.

I will probly use premium in the heat of summer for long interstate travel - but otherwise it is regular for me.

Yes, it is true that ethanol has fewer BTUs per gallon than gasoline (hence lower MPG), no matter what grade it is. Just like biodiesel has less BTUs than regular diesel.

[Zoot]

Just for further reference, I stopped for gas in the cage this weekend... Arizona prices and octanes.

Regular, 87 octane. Midgrade, 89 octane, 30 cents per gallon more than regular. Premium, 91 octane, 20 cents per gallon more than midgrade.

[SPYDERPOPS]

You can run 87 Non Ethanol and 91+ if it has 10% maximum Ethanol.

[johnsimion]

Using 'new math', I believe "your" difference between Regular and Premium would be .40 or $2.00 per tank. I personally believe running premium in a vehicle 'designed' to run on regular (says so in the manual....) is a waste of money. But as they say, YMMV (so true.) I've run regular in my 'high performance' Yamaha FJR1300 for 91,000 miles and consistently get anywhere from 40 to 50+ mpg. Good enough for me.

I have a pdf copy of the owner's manual from my 2017 RT and this is an exact copy: "Recommended Fuel: Use premium unleaded gasoline with an AKI (RON+MON)/2 octane rating of 91, or an RON octane rating of 95."

Maybe you have a different model but MY manual definitely does not say it's designed to run on regular. Is regular safe to use? Probably. Do I care to find out the hard way if it isn't? No, for a couple of bucks a fillup, I'll use 91 octane. I do not claim to be smarter than the owner's manual and I do not want to prove or disprove that by disobeying something as clear as this.

[askitee]

Interesting read.

Here in Australia
91 Octane is the lowest for mowers and stationary motors and older cars that used leaded fuels
95 Octane is recommended by BRP in Aus models
98 Octane is premium, about 8-10c/Litre dearer than 95, but I use 98 Octane in my 2017 RT Ltd I get about 15% better economy

[mikeyuberalles]

I have a pdf copy of the owner's manual from my 2017 RT and this is an exact copy: "Recommended Fuel: Use premium unleaded gasoline with an AKI (RON+MON)/2 octane rating of 91, or an RON octane rating of 95."
Maybe you have a different model but MY manual definitely does not say it's designed to run on regular.

This thread is in the Ryker section, so I would expect that your manual would be different.

Here is what the 2019 Ryker manual states,
Recommended Fuel
Use regular unleaded gasoline with a minimum AKI (RON+MON)/2 octane rating of 87, or an RON octane rating of 92.
For optimal performance, use premium unleaded gasoline with an AKI (RON+MON)/2 octane rating of 91, or an RON octane rating of 95.
NOTICE Never experiment with other fuels. Engine or fuel system damages may occur with the use of an inadequate fuel.
NOTICE Do NOT use fuel from fuel pumps labeled E85

[Cruzr Joe]

I pamper my Spyder Premium Ethanol Free whenever possible.

Cruzr Joe

[Highwayman2013]

Since we are talking about the Ryker, the manual says 87 octane minimum and 91 recommended. Use something in between those numbers.

[Highwayman2013]

It depends on the way they calculate octane where you live. In the manual for the Ryker in the US it's AKI(RON+MON)/2

[Highwayman2013]

Interesting read.

Here in Australia
91 Octane is the lowest for mowers and stationary motors and older cars that used leaded fuels
95 Octane is recommended by BRP in Aus models
98 Octane is premium, about 8-10c/Litre dearer than 95, but I use 98 Octane in my 2017 RT Ltd I get about 15% better economy



It depends on the way they calculate octane where you live. In the manual for the Ryker in the US it's AKI(RON+MON)/2

[KC61]

Or you could use some common sense that always works.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

This thread is in the Ryker section, so I would expect that your manual would be different.

Here is what the 2019 Ryker manual states,
Recommended Fuel
Use regular unleaded gasoline with a minimum AKI (RON+MON)/2 octane rating of 87, or an RON octane rating of 92.
For optimal performance, use premium unleaded gasoline with an AKI (RON+MON)/2 octane rating of 91, or an RON octane rating of 95.
NOTICE Never experiment with other fuels. Engine or fuel system damages may occur with the use of an inadequate fuel.
NOTICE Do NOT use fuel from fuel pumps labeled E85

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo NO Diesel then …. correct ….. Mike :ohyea:

[Tslepebull]

My Rally and the lawn mower are the only vehicles in our family fleet that don't use diesel. If CanAm offered a diesel Ryker I would be first in line.

[Aufgeblassen47]

One thing to consider is elevation. You can use lower octane at higher elevations.