Oil level check results confusing to me

[teninospyder]

OK, I'm just relaying info from my own personal experience here, so please accept it as that. However I do have a question or 2. :dontknow: First off, this is a 2014 RTL with 1330 engine.
Last Saturday I had the dealer do an oil change including the HMC Oil Filter. I do not know exactly how much oil he refilled with, however I have no issues related to that service or Spyder performance since.:shemademe_smilie:

After reading a few latest posts here about checking the oil level in the 1330, yesterday I decided to follow the BRP procedure and see what I had. :dontknow:
After taking a 15 mile ride (run to post office, avg 50 MPH) with outside temp around 67, I parked at home and left it running while I "unloaded myself" of jacket, helmet, billfold, etc.". As I was walking back to the Spyder I heard the fans running and they cut out just as I got there. All is well for an oil check (it's 1:30PM PST). I shut her down, lifted the seat, removed the dipstick, wiped it off, reinserted all the way, and removed to check oil level. I did this a number of times, and each time the oil level was at the very top of the "max" ball end of the plastic portion of the dipstick. No oil showed at all on the wire portion of the dipstick. :yes:
From this I "expect" I am good to go on oil level. :thumbup:

I have always been curious about the comments about oil drainback, and checking within 2 minutes, and dipsticks showing low after sitting for a while, so I decided to do a check on mine. This is where I am confused about what I should see and did see. :dontknow:

I rechecked the oil level every few hours or so (including after waking up this AM around 6), following good practice of wiping off dipstick, reinstall, make sure I was reading correctly, etc., and in every check - including this AM - the level on the stick has not changed, even though obviously the engine and oil temp has changed:dontknow:
Maybe I've been misreading the posts about this, but I expected to see it lower based on the sump draining and oil reservoir discussions :banghead:

Can someone please help me understand what I obviously don't ?

Appreciate it :thumbup:

Consider this request closed.

[BajaRon]

It is possible, as you have discovered, to get an accurate oil level reading without following the prescribed steps. However, it is also very possible to get inaccurate readings if the correct process is not observed.

So, the bottom line is. The only way to be SURE you get an accurate oil level reading is to follow the prescribed method. To do otherwise is to risk (but not guarantee) an inaccurate reading.

[JayBros]

Based on your statement that you do not know how much oil the technician used during the oil and HCM filter change and where you say the oil level is on the dipstick I suspect the technician overfilled the engine. Why do I suspect this? Because at the 28K service on my '14TR-S the exact same thing happened. I did the same thing you did when I got home from the dealership; checked the oil level and it completely covered the Max ball on the dip stick. Later that evening I went out to my garage for something unrelated to the bike and found a spot of oil under the bike. Upon examination I found the technician had not removed the belly pan under the HCM filter and had made a mess of the job. When I checked the dipstick the oil level was still at the top of the Max ball and it had been a good number of hours since my original check. The following morning I took the bike for a decent length ride to fully warm up the engine and then sucked out enough oil to lower the dipstick level to midway between the Min and Max bulbs. How do I further confirm my suspicions? The last time I change my oil and engine oil filter 4,200 miles ago I used 5.0 qt of oil as recommended. Two days ago after a day long ride I did a routine oil level check and the level was midway between the Max and Min bulbs. Yesterday I rode another 50 or so miles and the bike has since sat for about 18 hours. On reading your post I went out and checked the level on a stone cold engine and it just covered the Min bulb on the dipstick. Some amount of oil, I don't know in oz just how much, had drained back into the engine as compared to the day-long post ride check.

If you read the oil maintenance instructions in the '14 operator's guide you will notice the slick BRP editors were so careful they used the wrong picture of the 2014 dipstick and the instructions say to fill the oil level to near the top of the Min-Max range. Newer operator's guides day do not add oil if the dipstick level is between the Min and Max bulbs. When I next change my HCM filter in about 5K miles I'm going to use 5.2 qt as called for in an engine oil quantity change that was published in mid-2015 and has carried forward to subsequent op guides.

[Easy Rider]

From this I "expect" I am good to go on oil level. :thumbup:


You should have stopped right there. :thumbup:

I've been a bit curious about that too......but decided I have better things to do and worry about.

[JAS POWER]

My thought and experience is that it all depends on how long the Spyder sits for. I have noticed not much difference when checking the oil cold, to a huge difference and not much oil even reading on the dipstick! I notice it seems to have a lot to do with the amount of time my Spyder sits (2012 RS-S).

[teninospyder]

Based on your statement that you do not know how much oil the technician used during the oil and HCM filter change and where you say the oil level is on the dipstick I suspect the technician overfilled the engine. Why do I suspect this? Because at the 28K service on my '14TR-S the exact same thing happened. I did the same thing you did when I got home from the dealership; checked the oil level and it completely covered the Max ball on the dip stick. Later that evening I went out to my garage for something unrelated to the bike and found a spot of oil under the bike. Upon examination I found the technician had not removed the belly pan under the HCM filter and had made a mess of the job. When I checked the dipstick the oil level was still at the top of the Max ball and it had been a good number of hours since my original check. The following morning I took the bike for a decent length ride to fully warm up the engine and then sucked out enough oil to lower the dipstick level to midway between the Min and Max bulbs. How do I further confirm my suspicions? The last time I change my oil and engine oil filter 4,200 miles ago I used 5.0 qt of oil as recommended. Two days ago after a day long ride I did a routine oil level check and the level was midway between the Max and Min bulbs. Yesterday I rode another 50 or so miles and the bike has since sat for about 18 hours. On reading your post I went out and checked the level on a stone cold engine and it just covered the Min bulb on the dipstick. Some amount of oil, I don't know in oz just how much, had drained back into the engine as compared to the day-long post ride check.

If you read the oil maintenance instructions in the '14 operator's guide you will notice the slick BRP editors were so careful they used the wrong picture of the 2014 dipstick and the instructions say to fill the oil level to near the top of the Min-Max range. Newer operator's guides day do not add oil if the dipstick level is between the Min and Max bulbs. When I next change my HCM filter in about 5K miles I'm going to use 5.2 qt as called for in an engine oil quantity change that was published in mid-2015 and has carried forward to subsequent op guides.


Jaybros, thanks for your inputs here, but I think my question relates more to "Why" I never see any indication of a lower oil level regardless of how long it sits. I don't see any oil on the "wire" portion of the dipstick when I take it out. If it is overfilled wouldn't there initially be oil on it too?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Oil measurement on the Dipstick for the 1330 engine is not very likely to change from use ….. For some reason the 1330 must be so well made / designed …. it doesn't BURN / USE much if any OIL ….. I can't remember anyone saying this engine is using Oil between normal oil changes ….. jmho ... Mike :ohyea:

[teninospyder]

Oil measurement on the Dipstick for the 1330 engine is not very likely to change from use ….. For some reason the 1330 must be so well made / designed …. it doesn't BURN / USE much if any OIL ….. I can't remember anyone saying this engine is using Oil between normal oil changes ….. jmho ... Mike :ohyea:

Thanks for the input Mike. I'm thinking maybe I'm not asking the right question or I misunderstand a lot of the prior discussions on this topic. The BRP procedure (do the check within 2 minutes, as an example) led me to think that when you shut off the engine, the oil in the main tank and where the dipstick is, was flowing down into another location, to be pumped back up into the main tank again when you start the engine - and you needed to check within 2 minutes or a lot of the oil would have flowed out of the main tank and wouldn't be in the area of the dipstick for a good measurement. I've tried finding any description and sketches of how the system works component wise, but haven't succeeded. If my assumption is true, it explained for me why the oil level would be lower on the dipstick in the morning, and come up after an engine running warmup and system pumping per BRP procedure. My measurements cold engine or hot are virtually the same. I can check it after a run, after a cold night, and in the morning it's the same. If the oil does in fact flow out of the main tank and out of the dipstick area after shutdown, I'm not seeing it. You have always been good at explaining things to me so Please help me understand what I am missing ?

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Thanks for the input Mike. I'm thinking maybe I'm not asking the right question or I misunderstand a lot of the prior discussions on this topic. The BRP procedure (do the check within 2 minutes, as an example) led me to think that when you shut off the engine, the oil in the main tank and where the dipstick is, was flowing down into another location, to be pumped back up into the main tank again when you start the engine - and you needed to check within 2 minutes or a lot of the oil would have flowed out of the main tank and wouldn't be in the area of the dipstick for a good measurement. I've tried finding any description and sketches of how the system works component wise, but haven't succeeded. If my assumption is true, it explained for me why the oil level would be lower on the dipstick in the morning, and come up after an engine running warmup and system pumping per BRP procedure. My measurements cold engine or hot are virtually the same. I can check it after a run, after a cold night, and in the morning it's the same. If the oil does in fact flow out of the main tank and out of the dipstick area after shutdown, I'm not seeing it. You have always been good at explaining things to me so Please help me understand what I am missing ?

I follow the oil check procedure as stated in the manual for the 1330 engine ………………. What I do different is … I check it AFTER a long or short ride …..when it's guaranteed to be at correct OPERATING temp ….. I'm not going to waste 15 min. waiting for it to get warm while burning FUEL :yikes: ………… When I start my RT - I already know the oil level is correct because I checked after my last ride ……This is how & why I do it this way Mike :ohyea:

[Lew L]

Same here---- It only takes a few monents at the end of a ryde to check the oil level. I also use a spray detailer to get the bug guts off the front of the :spyder2: and out of my teeth :joke:

Lew L

[VegasSpyder]

The 2018 1330 in the RTL has a dry sump oil system. When you are checking the oil, you are checking it in a tank, not the crank case. so, maybe as time goes by the oil is draining slightly back into the crankcase giving the appearance of losing oil level.
Upon restarting the engine and allowing the oil to recirculate fills up the reservoir again.

[Little Blue]

:coffee: Your question about the oil level on your Spyder is a good one. I had never checked my oil the way you had done. So just as you stated, I did the same thing. The oil level on my Spyder was about the same for every check.

Why was it about the same? I really don't have the answer. The manual is the way I go. .....:thumbup:

P.S. It is above my pay grade.

[Gwolf]

The 1330 Ace engine has a dry sump type oiling system. This means it has an oil tank to hold the oil. The oil goes into the engine providing lubrication and cooling. In the lower part of the engine there are scavenger pumps which pump the oil which has gone through the engine lubricating and picking up heat, back into the oil tank for the next round.This lubricating system is the same as Harley engines. The engine needs to be run before checking the oil so that all the oil from the sump is pumped back into the oil tank.

On a new, tight engine the engine might be able to sit there for half a day and the oil would not drain back into the sump with out the engine running. Older engines can be looser and even oil pump wear could let a certain amount drain back into the sump. This is called 'sumping'. It does not do any further damage, but it could fool you on the amount of oil you have in the system. That is why you check it right after it has been running. All the oil in the sump has been pumped back into the tank so the level reads as it should. Having a sump full of oil and then adding more oil to bring the level up will result in too much oil in the system. It could blow out the dipstick, breathers, fill cap, or any place it can get out when the engine is started .

[CopperSpyder]

The 1330 Ace engine has a dry sump type oiling system. This means it has an oil tank to hold the oil. The oil goes into the engine providing lubrication and cooling. In the lower part of the engine there are scavenger pumps which pump the oil which has gone through the engine lubricating and picking up heat, back into the oil tank for the next round.This lubricating system is the same as Harley engines. The engine needs to be run before checking the oil so that all the oil from the sump is pumped back into the oil tank.

On a new, tight engine the engine might be able to sit there for half a day and the oil would not drain back into the sump with out the engine running. Older engines can be looser and even oil pump wear could let a certain amount drain back into the sump. This is called 'sumping'. It does not do any further damage, but it could fool you on the amount of oil you have in the system. That is why you check it right after it has been running. All the oil in the sump has been pumped back into the tank so the level reads as it should. Having a sump full of oil and then adding more oil to bring the level up will result in too much oil in the system. It could blow out the dipstick, breathers, fill cap, or any place it can get out when the engine is started .

:clap: :thumbup:

[agedbikeman]

This is typical BRP Rubbish design, probably designed by the janitor in his lunch break.
If an engine requires X amount of oil in the sump, tank or wherever its fed from, then with a correctly designed dipstick length it will measure the level when the engine is cold as with most normal vehicles, if you have enough oil when the engine is hot, cold, warm or othewise, then you have enough oil, the temperature of the engine can't make it any more or less. You're more inclined to check your oil before you start than have a compicated hit and miss procedure. If you can measure X amount of oil on the dipstick when cold then when you start the engine I'm sure the oil knows where to go to keep the engine lubricated.
So why not put the level marks on the dipstick for a cold unstarted engine and let us all have some peace. I'm surprised no one has made a calculation or modified dipstick. MAYBE THATS MY NEXT PROJECT

[CJ.RamMan]

This is typical BRP Rubbish design, probably designed by the janitor in his lunch break.
If an engine requires X amount of oil in the sump, tank or wherever its fed from, then with a correctly designed dipstick length it will measure the level when the engine is cold as with most normal vehicles, if you have enough oil when the engine is hot, cold, warm or othewise, then you have enough oil, the temperature of the engine can't make it any more or less. You're more inclined to check your oil before you start than have a compicated hit and miss procedure. If you can measure X amount of oil on the dipstick when cold then when you start the engine I'm sure the oil knows where to go to keep the engine lubricated.
So why not put the level marks on the dipstick for a cold unstarted engine and let us all have some peace. I'm surprised no one has made a calculation or modified dipstick. MAYBE THATS MY NEXT PROJECT

Good luck on your dipstick design. Keep us updated on your progress.

[PMK]

For whatever reason, the engineers and tech guys took a very simple task and complicated it. The engine is a dry sump design. If heading out, fire the motor, run it for a minute or two and tnen check the oil. Close enough is fine, it is not as if the crankshaft is dipping into the oil or the gearbox is at risk.

The heat expansion amount is insignificant at best.

Years ago, and we never truly got a good explanation from BRP, there was mention of dipsticks not being the proper length or changed during a production run or whatever. Saying that, rather than tell us the dipstick dimension, they can out with a long version of checking oil level AND rather than add a prescribed oil amount at oil changes, they want you to underfill, then do the entire get it hot and add oil task.

FWIW, every oil change except once I si ply add the book prescribed amount of oil and it checks fine hot or cold.

The one time, concerned I should do as they say, it was a pain and ultimately ended up slightly overfull.

Pretty certain the oil level guy and the guy that designed the clock enjoy lunchtime together...

[BajaRon]

This is typical BRP Rubbish design, probably designed by the janitor in his lunch break.
If an engine requires X amount of oil in the sump, tank or wherever its fed from, then with a correctly designed dipstick length it will measure the level when the engine is cold as with most normal vehicles, if you have enough oil when the engine is hot, cold, warm or othewise, then you have enough oil, the temperature of the engine can't make it any more or less. You're more inclined to check your oil before you start than have a compicated hit and miss procedure. If you can measure X amount of oil on the dipstick when cold then when you start the engine I'm sure the oil knows where to go to keep the engine lubricated.
So why not put the level marks on the dipstick for a cold unstarted engine and let us all have some peace. I'm surprised no one has made a calculation or modified dipstick. MAYBE THATS MY NEXT PROJECT

Actually, a dry sump oil system is an excellent and very desirable design. It affords a number of advantages. Nothing 'rubbish' about it. However, with improved engineering, sometimes an appropriate change in actions by the user is required.

I am afraid that your 'Cold' mark dipstick project is doomed to fail. To set a 'Cold' oil level mark you will have to know exactly how much oil has drained from the oil reservoir back into the crank case. Since this is a function of time and oil viscosity (which affects the drain rate), it will vary every time. The real take-a-way here is that SOME oil will drain from the reservoir back into the crank case, lowering the oil level in the reservoir (where the dip stick resides). Filling to the 'Full' mark in this situation will create a system over-fill condition. Which we all know is not a good thing.

When you start the engine, the oil system begins to return the extra oil in the crank case back to the reservoir. It does this until the system is returned to its balance point. It is at this point that the oil level can be accurately assessed with the reservoir dip stick. I do not know what the time frame is for this balance to be achieved, but it probably does not take very long. The important thing here is not so much operating temperature, as some have mentioned, but giving the system a chance to accomplish this task before an accurate oil level reading can be taken.

It takes a bit of time for the oil to leak back into the crankcase after shut-down. So there is no need to be quick about taking a measurment.

Most, including me, simply check the oil level at the end of a ride or during a fuel stop along the way. As long as you don't see a puddle of oil under the machine when you want to ride again, you are good to go. Then simply repeat this cycle and live happily ever after. Doing it this way completely avoids the 'Cold' oil level issue altogether.

[Gwolf]

To add a few things to what BajaRon said..........there is a great number of reasons why a dry sump oiling system has advantages over a wet sump system. It is not a design flaw and any dry sump system you find will have approximately the same method of checking the oil. A dry sump system is ideal for motorcycles, since it allows for a small, shallow crankcase and reduces the bulk of the engine. It also allows the engine to sit lower in the frame, keeping the center of gravity down. The additional oil in the dry sump system is stored in a separate tank. This allows for any amount of oil to be used in the engine simply by varying the size of the remote tank. The oil in a dry sump system also carries some of the heat away from the crankcase where it can dissipate around the oil tank or the lines leading to and from it. It also allows for the optional oil cooler in the lines. The oil tank can be located any place on the vehicle. It does not need to be part of the lower crankcase.

In a wet sump system, like most cars with 7 or more quarts right in the oil pan of the engine, the G forces of cornering, acceleration, and braking will move the oil to one side or the other of the oil pan. This sloshing around of oil can cover / uncover the crankshaft, since it runs in the same space as the oil storage. It also adds to the foaming effect and could uncover the oil pump resulting in cavitation and oil starvation. The crankshaft running in the oil stored in the pan of a wet sump system cuts the engine horsepower.

Simply checking the oil when you park the bike or get gas is all that is needed. No reason to redesign a perfectly good system. The dry sump system has many advantages on small engines. The number of minutes after you shut the engine off it not that critical just as long as it is within a reasonable time. I think probably they put a certain number in the books to keep 50 people a day from calling and asking how long to wait.

[Easy Rider]

This is typical BRP Rubbish design, probably designed by the janitor in his lunch break.


While I am not a big fan of a lot of things that BRP has done with the Spyder, THIS is not one of them.

It is obvious that you don't understand what a "dry sump" engine design IS.
Maybe you should look it up.

[AeroPilot]

Like Ron and others have said the newer designs require us to learn new ways to check oil. I am impressed with the efficiency of Rotax engines and I have seen a variety of oil levels when I tried to check the engine without being fully warmed up and guess that the pumps lobes position sometimes stop in a closed position, sometimes open a crack (or due to wear tolerances) allowing drainback and that can change results.

I did just change oil and filter again at 49,600 miles with the required 5 quarts measured added, and after a long ride it checked with the level just under the M in MAX---just where I like it.

Thats all I got - and I have learned to change to this predictable procedure...

[BajaRon]

To add a few things to what BajaRon said..........there is a great number of reasons why a dry sump oiling system has advantages over a wet sump system. It is not a design flaw and any dry sump system you find will have approximately the same method of checking the oil. A dry sump system is ideal for motorcycles, since it allows for a small, shallow crankcase and reduces the bulk of the engine. It also allows the engine to sit lower in the frame, keeping the center of gravity down. The additional oil in the dry sump system is stored in a separate tank. This allows for any amount of oil to be used in the engine simply by varying the size of the remote tank. The oil in a dry sump system also carries some of the heat away from the crankcase where it can dissipate around the oil tank or the lines leading to and from it. It also allows for the optional oil cooler in the lines. The oil tank can be located any place on the vehicle. It does not need to be part of the lower crankcase.

In a wet sump system, like most cars with 7 or more quarts right in the oil pan of the engine, the G forces of cornering, acceleration, and braking will move the oil to one side or the other of the oil pan. This sloshing around of oil can cover / uncover the crankshaft, since it runs in the same space as the oil storage. It also adds to the foaming effect and could uncover the oil pump resulting in cavitation and oil starvation. The crankshaft running in the oil stored in the pan of a wet sump system cuts the engine horsepower.

Simply checking the oil when you park the bike or get gas is all that is needed. No reason to redesign a perfectly good system. The dry sump system has many advantages on small engines. The number of minutes after you shut the engine off it not that critical just as long as it is within a reasonable time. I think probably they put a certain number in the books to keep 50 people a day from calling and asking how long to wait.



Exactly right!

Dry sump is just a better way to do things. Frankly, BRP would be foolish to use any other system. Like going from 2 wheels to 3. Going from wet sump to dry sump takes some getting used to, requiring some changes by the user. But it's all good in the end!

Wet sump is fine for cars/trucks, etc. It's a simpler, less expensive system. The engine in these vehicles can sit as low as needed and still have plenty of room for a deep, conventional oil pan. But even a few inches of motor height makes a world of difference in a motorcycle or similar application.

[Gwolf]

1936 Harley Davidson Knucklehead Engine, first Harley engine ever to use the dry sump, recirculating oil system. Dry sump systems are certainly not some new idea or recent design.

https://revzilla.imgix.net/blog_content_image/image/8976/20140731Knuckle1936.jpg?w=264&dpr=1&auto=format

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-harley-davidsons-have-dry-sump-engines

Just one example of the benefits of dry sump. It is not a dry, boring topic.

https://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-84-dry-sumps-dave-lives/

[BajaRon]

1936 Harley Davidson Knucklehead Engine, first Harley engine ever to use the dry sump, recirculating oil system. Dry sump systems are certainly not some new idea or recent design.

https://revzilla.imgix.net/blog_content_image/image/8976/20140731Knuckle1936.jpg?w=264&dpr=1&auto=format

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-harley-davidsons-have-dry-sump-engines

Just one example of the benefits of dry sump. It is not a dry, boring topic.

https://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-84-dry-sumps-dave-lives/

Still, the dry sump oil system is new to some people.... But you're right. Dry sump technology has been around for a long time.

[PMK]

Still, the dry sump oil system is new to some people.... But you're right. Dry sump technology has been around for a long time.

Aircraft radial engines are dry sump and likely predate the Harley by a decade or two..

[PMK]

Exactly right!

Dry sump is just a better way to do things. Frankly, BRP would be foolish to use any other system. Like going from 2 wheels to 3. Going from wet sump to dry sump takes some getting used to, requiring some changes by the user. But it's all good in the end!

Wet sump is fine for cars/trucks, etc. It's a simpler, less expensive system. The engine in these vehicles can sit as low as needed and still have plenty of room for a deep, conventional oil pan. But even a few inches of motor height makes a world of difference in a motorcycle or similar application.

BRP / Rotax would be brilliant to step away from the current design. For such a modern engine, it was foolish to go with shared gearbox and engine oil. Yes it works, but the engine would benefit from better oil additives that sadly the clutch does not like, and the gearbox could shift better with a dedicated gearbox oil that may not be suitable for the engine.

[BajaRon]

BRP / Rotax would be brilliant to step away from the current design. For such a modern engine, it was foolish to go with shared gearbox and engine oil. Yes it works, but the engine would benefit from better oil additives that sadly the clutch does not like, and the gearbox could shift better with a dedicated gearbox oil that may not be suitable for the engine.

You realize that you are advocating for added expense, added weight, added bulk (size), and additional complexity. Not to mention greater maintenance time and cost. All with no real advantage. Quite suitable, well performing lubricants at a reasonable price are easily gotten for the current system. And after over 10 years of Spyder production, I have not heard of a single owner complain of a worn out motor or transmission. Granted, some have destroyed their wet clutch by using the wrong oil. This is unfortunate, but completely avoidable. Not a good reason to abandon what I consider the best approach possible for the Spyder. Every option has a downside.

Honda, BMW, Kawasaki, Suzuki, KTM, Ducati and most other motorcycle manufacturer's use this same design because it fits the bill and works so well. Even Harley uses this in the V-Rod. Most of the motorcycles using separately cased drive systems do it more for nostalgia than anything else.

BRP and the Spyder do have some issues. What mechanical devise doesn't? Room for improvement? Sure! Just not in this particular case.

[JayBros]

...Simply checking the oil when you park the bike or get gas is all that is needed. No reason to redesign a perfectly good system. The dry sump system has many advantages on small engines. The number of minutes after you shut the engine off it not that critical just as long as it is within a reasonable time. I think probably they put a certain number in the books to keep 50 people a day from calling and asking how long to wait.

Common sense is an uncommon virtue.

[filbert]

I suspect drain back is affected by how tight or loose the engine is
due to mfg tolerances and normal wear!

I do know that hot oil takes up more space than cold oil!

The coefficient of thermal expansion for engine oil is .00039
Say 60F is ambient temp and 200F is operating temp = 140F temp rise
140 *.00039 = .0546 = 5.46%
If you have 5.2 Qt oil at 60F you will have 5.48 Qt at 200F (By volume)
That’s 4.54 Oz additional oil by volume hot/cold!

I thought I’d run that up the flagpole and see how it waves!

[kissfan]

So, can someone decipher this oil level check step? I 'assume' it's written in Canadian :dontknow:

3. Let the engine idle for 10 minutes at least 20 seconds.

[Doug44]

I am a new RT owner here and today after riding my 2020 with 800mi I did as the book said. I rode it for 9 mi or more then pulled it into my level garage floor and let it idle for 10 mins. (I really don't GET THIS STEP) While idle the fans came on/off several times. I then shut it off and quickly checked the oil within 2 mins again per owners manual. My oil was clear and clean it was almost impossible to see on the dip stick. But the best I could determine it was low. I could see it on the bottom of the dip stick but unsure how far up. I didn't add any but I guess I will run it by my dealer and have the Spyder tech take a check. I really hate to bash CAN AM but this whole procedure just seems strange especially letting it idle for 10 mins after riding it 9 miles or more.

[fatboy]

y is this so hard for some people

[Steve W.]

y is this so hard for some people
It's not just the people, it's the manufacturer, too. :dontknow:

I fully understand the concept of a dry sump system. What I DON'T understand is, ... if there is a separate reservoir to hold the oil, how is it leaking out of there, back into the engine? There is an oil pump that draws out of the reservoir to supply the engine. There are multiple scavenging pumps to pump oil from the engine back to the reservoir. You stop the engine, the oil stops moving, too. Or does it? Apparently oil slowly moves back to the engine sump, then has to be warmed up for an ungodly length of time and circulated back through the reservoir before its quantity can be checked.

THAT is the part that is so hard for so many of us.

Yes, the level might go up or down a bit based on temperature, but it's not going to change that much.

.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I am a new RT owner here and today after riding my 2020 with 800mi I did as the book said. I rode it for 9 mi or more then pulled it into my level garage floor and let it idle for 10 mins. (I really don't GET THIS STEP) While idle the fans came on/off several times. I then shut it off and quickly checked the oil within 2 mins again per owners manual. My oil was clear and clean it was almost impossible to see on the dip stick. But the best I could determine it was low. I could see it on the bottom of the dip stick but unsure how far up. I didn't add any but I guess I will run it by my dealer and have the Spyder tech take a check. I really hate to bash CAN AM but this whole procedure just seems strange especially letting it idle for 10 mins after riding it 9 miles or more.

If you don't mind A- wasting time or B- wasting gas .... do it like the book says, however me and thousands of others here .... only check the oil level after a ride of at least 10 minutes . So Unless there is a hugh oil puddle under the Spyder when you want to ride again - the level will be fine ...... :congrats: ..... Mike :ohyea:

[EdMat]

I am a new RT owner here and today after riding my 2020 with 800mi I did as the book said. I rode it for 9 mi or more then pulled it into my level garage floor and let it idle for 10 mins. (I really don't GET THIS STEP) While idle the fans came on/off several times. I then shut it off and quickly checked the oil within 2 mins again per owners manual. My oil was clear and clean it was almost impossible to see on the dip stick. But the best I could determine it was low. I could see it on the bottom of the dip stick but unsure how far up. I didn't add any but I guess I will run it by my dealer and have the Spyder tech take a check. I really hate to bash CAN AM but this whole procedure just seems strange especially letting it idle for 10 mins after riding it 9 miles or more.

If you have ridden for 9 miles or 90 miles I would just turn it off in a level spot, let it set 30 seconds and read it. That's what I have found works. I have no idea how the oil slowly leaks back out of the sump into the engine/trans but it does. Check it like you should, leave it for a day or two and recheck it cold. If it's like mine nothing will show up on the dipstick.

No puddles, no worries, at least on the 1330's.

[JayBros]

It's not just the people, it's the manufacturer, too. :dontknow:
...Yes, the level might go up or down a bit based on temperature, but it's not going to change that much.

The manufacturer probably knows much more than you think. If you are willing to accept the fact that in motorcycle engines in which the engine and transmission share the same oil, the viscosity of various oils that meet the API service code specified by the manufacturer shear down, some more quickly and to a greater degree than others, over time and mileage. You can verify this by running various oils and analyzing them. The end result can show up in checking the dipstick at identical times after shutting off the engine. If you check the dipstick in which the oil has sheared down to mid-20 weight, more oil will drain back into the crankcase than an oil such as Amsoil Metric Full Synthetic 10W-40 which withstands shearing down extremely well. In hot engines, ones run 9 miles or more, after two minutes Issac Newton taking over will have a greater effect on lighter weight oil. Ergo, the engineers tell us to check the dipstick within 2 minutes for standardization because they don't know how many Spyder owning blokes will be running the multitude of oils that meet the specified API service codes they specify, but the 2 minute limit has been proven to them, the engineers, to be a reasonable time to do the dipstick check wherein the various weights will have approximately the same amount of drain-back into the crankcase and give fairly standard readings. After the two minutes, the variations in sheared down oil weights can result in substantially different dipstick readings.

[SteveLaoyster]

If you have clean oil you need to put the dipstick on a colored paper towel to see where the oil is. You can use a white one but with a colored one you can see the oil on the towel easier. I've done this many times.

[Doug44]

If you don't mind A- wasting time or B- wasting gas .... do it like the book says, however me and thousands of others here .... only check the oil level after a ride of at least 10 minutes . So Unless there is a hugh oil puddle under the Spyder when you want to ride again - the level will be fine ...... :congrats: ..... Mike :ohyea:

Makes more sense than the owners manual Mike and I want to take you for this reply. I appreciate this common sense procedure coming from a Honda Gold Wing I know nothing about the Spyder but understand loud and clear what you are saying and the point is well taken

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I fully understand the concept of a dry sump system. What I DON'T understand is, ... if there is a separate reservoir to hold the oil, how is it leaking out of there, back into the engine? There is an oil pump that draws out of the reservoir to supply the engine. There are multiple scavenging pumps to pump oil from the engine back to the reservoir. You stop the engine, the oil stops moving, too. Or does it? Apparently oil slowly moves back to the engine sump, then has to be warmed up for an ungodly length of time and circulated back through the reservoir before its quantity can be checked.

THAT is the part that is so hard for so many of us.
Read these three threads from a few months ago. You'll get a much more clear understanding of the whole dry sump system of the 1330 engine, oil refill quantities, and oil level checking process. The first one is long but there's a lot of info in it, both verifying and dispelling several opinions.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?130192-oil-capacity-1330

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?130653-Oil-change-by-suctioning

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?119432-Check-oil-level-hot-or-cold

[RideOn]

FWIW, Harley Davidson also recommends oil level check with hot engine.